Creatine and hmb, what else is there?

[Tisnom1]

Stumbled across hmb the other day, looked cheap and the studies looked good so I got let's some.

Just need to know if there's anything else worthwhile and cheap.

I know about whey and soy blends/dextrose. What else is there? Cheap. No gimmicks.

[faipdeooiad]

If price is an issue, ditch HMB. (Though that stands if price isn’t an issue).

[ChrisLS8]

Ditch HMB unless you are trying to lose gains in your wallet.

Beta Alanine, alcar, fish oil

[rhadam]

Probably helpful if you listed your goals for supplement use.

[Tisnom1]

Well I'm 270 and I bench 245 for 12 on a good day. Strength isn't the issue, but I want more muscle (more muscle faster metabolism).

I've been on antipsychotics so I gained a lot of weight (220-280 in a year). That's also from only working out here and there. I just want to have something that lasts and is cheap. I could care less how long it takes. Idc about 1rm or fat burners. I just want to build muscle.

My pr is 295 for 12. Looking at ginseng.

[TheFugitive]

I would focus on a solid training program and let everything fall into place

Protein and creatine is all you need for now and maybe a preworkout to provide some energy

[rhadam]

Well I'm 270 and I bench 245 for 12 on a good day. Strength isn't the issue, but I want more muscle (more muscle faster metabolism).

I've been on antipsychotics so I gained a lot of weight (220-280 in a year). That's also from only working out here and there. I just want to have something that lasts and is cheap. I could care less how long it takes. Idc about 1rm or fat burners. I just want to build muscle.

My pr is 295 for 12. Looking at ginseng.

Your bench is incredibly low for your weight. Sounds like you need to nail down your diet and get on a good lifting program. There aren't OTC supplements that are going to put on muscle for you, or even help put on muscle. Diet and training is everything. Outside of creatine I wouldn't recommend anything else.

[powercage]

Stumbled across hmb the other day, looked cheap and the studies looked good so I got let's some.

Just need to know if there's anything else worthwhile and cheap.

I know about whey and soy blends/dextrose. What else is there? Cheap. No gimmicks.

the studies on HMB are garbage

[eatyourspinach]

betaine anhydrous

[OT2000]

betaine anhydrous

Yup, one of the best anecdotal for me

[Tisnom1]

Bump. Looking up betaine anhydrous

[Tisnom1]

Alright I got as follows:
soy protein - mixed with whey but not before bed.
whey protein - whenever
fish oil - 3g of dha/epa a day
hmb - 6g/day
creatine - 10g/day
vitamin d - 800iu-1600iu a day
multivitamin/2 a day

[SuffolkPunch]

Bump. Looking up betaine anhydrous

Pretty speculative stuff in terms of benefits IMO. I tried it and it made my skin smell like fish.

[eatyourspinach]

Alright I got as follows:
soy protein - mixed with whey but not before bed. causes puffy nipples in the morning for some reason.
whey protein - whenever
fish oil - 3g of dha/epa a day
hmb - 6g/day
creatine - 10g/day
vitamin d - 800iu-1600iu a day
multivitamin/2 a day
vitamin c - 2000mg a day

any particular reason for using both soy and whey?

Pretty speculative stuff in terms of benefits IMO. I tried it and it made my skin smell like fish.

yeah it can have that side effect, so can ALCAR

[Tisnom1]

any particular reason for using both soy and whey?

Yeah, I ready a study that suggested blends produce better results. Caesin didn't fair well in the study. -from pubmed

Don't take vitamin C in high doses. It reduces gains a lot. And I remembered I generally get puffy nipples in the morning.

[eatyourspinach]

Yeah, I ready a study that suggested blends produce better results. Caesin didn't fair well in the study. -from pubmed

Don't take vitamin C in high doses. It reduces gains a lot. And I remembered I generally get puffy nipples in the morning.

there is also evidence to suggest whey+casein can be beneficial but to each their own

[rhadam]

Alright I got as follows:
soy protein - mixed with whey but not before bed.
whey protein - whenever
fish oil - 3g of dha/epa a day
hmb - 6g/day
creatine - 10g/day
vitamin d - 800iu-1600iu a day
multivitamin/2 a day

Yeah, I ready a study that suggested blends produce better results. Caesin didn't fair well in the study. -from pubmed

Don't take vitamin C in high doses. It reduces gains a lot. And I remembered I generally get puffy nipples in the morning.

Science, not even once.

[El Conquistador]

Science, not even once.

[img]https://media.giphy.com/media/QC7UQbxq89MnL9r6AN/giphy-********_s.jpg[/img]

[Tisnom1]

Idk the supplements I listed aren't very far out there. If you haven't seen them before, and you want to know more, ncbi (or pubmed) could explain it better than me. As for the puffy nipple comment, had nothing to do with vitamin C.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270502/ - study regarding vitamin C's ineffectiveness at improving hypertrophy.

HMB works despite conflicting studies. I thought soy and whey would complement other's amino acid profile and since they were both short acting, produce better results. Creatine has been suggested to have better results when taken by bodyweight .1/kg in certain studies. Most vitamins and minerals in a multivitamin are water soluble and need to be taken twice a day. And the fish oil? Idk. Someone recommended you take 3g of epa/dha combined a day.

[SuffolkPunch]

HMB works despite conflicting studies.

Don't you realise that's a contradiction in terms? The weight of evidence tells us if it works or not. We don't decide first and then assume we are right because studies are conflicting.

Usually a conflict is because of different methods of approaching the study and possibly poor measurement practices, low statistical power etc.

You probably need an expert commentary on all studies available - I would use something like examine.com for this.

Based on this, I would not recommend spending money on HMB: https://examine.com/supplements/hmb/

[Tisnom1]

Don't you realise that's a contradiction in terms? The weight of evidence tells us if it works or not. We don't decide first and then assume we are right because studies are conflicting.

Usually a conflict is because of different methods of approaching the study and possibly poor measurement practices, low statistical power etc.

You probably need an expert commentary on all studies available - I would use something like examine.com for this.

Based on this, I would not recommend spending money on HMB: https://examine.com/supplements/hmb/

#hmbcut? thank you.

edit: I've been taking it for a day now. I know. A whole day right? After I take it my muscles contract a lot easier. Maybe it would help with sports performance? But it doesn't increase my lifts.

Ironically it might be a weight loss supplement and I need to lose weight.

[powercage]

#hmbcut? thank you.

edit: I've been taking it for a day now. I know. A whole day right? After I take it my muscles contract a lot easier. Maybe it would help with sports performance? But it doesn't increase my lifts.

Ironically it might be a weight loss supplement and I need to lose weight.

This is what is known as placebo.

[jdboyd78]

Creatine has been suggested to have better results when taken by bodyweight .1/kg in certain studies.

I started dosing @ 8 gm per day after seeing some of the newer data, mainly to help with cognitive benefits, I've noticed a big difference. I split it in 2 doses to help with absorption and prevent any GI issues. I buy Creapure 1 gram caps, I pay a premium for it, but the convenience is worth it for me.

[lucia316]

Alright I got as follows:
soy protein - mixed with whey but not before bed. - Why? It doesn't matter. In the context of a high protein diet of varied sources, protein is protein outside of collagen or collagen based things like ISOBeef or BeefISO. Use whatever fits your macros, budget and taste buds.
whey protein - whenever - Whenever? As in, "I just use it because," or whenever you need help meeting your macro? See above.
fish oil - 3g of dha/epa a day - Fine, but not going to help hypertrophy.
hmb - 6g/day - It's an excellent method for creating weight loss...in your wallet.
creatine - 10g/day - Unnecessary to take that much. 5g per day is more than sufficient.
vitamin d - 800iu-1600iu a day - Why if you're taking a mulit?
multivitamin/2 a day - Fine, but not making a difference in hypertrophy goals

See Bold. Hypertrophy is driven by a caloric surplus to TDEE, weight training with progressive volume and getting rest. Supplements do not make you bigger.

Well I'm 270 and I bench 245 for 12 on a good day. Strength isn't the issue, but I want more muscle (more muscle faster metabolism).

More muscle is great, but the expectation of a "faster metabolism" due to an increase is incorrect. Your BMR will increase, but it will with fat gain too. If you mean that over time you'll be better at burning calories with more muscle mass, okay. But it will take an increase in mass of over 10% to make any appreciable differen in your BMR assuming that you don't increase your calories as your grow.

Looking at ginseng.

Seriously? No.

Science, not even once.

This

This is what is known as placebo.

It's powerful.