If Zionism and a Jewish State is legitimate, why is Christian Nationalism not?

[alain]

Q

I disagree with the idea of a state based around race or religion but I do agree that it's none of our business and we should stay out of it irrespective of who it is. If US politicians were quoting scripture as reasons to support a Muslim theocracy I would be equally outraged

I disagree.

A state based around race makes a nation.

There has to be some common denominator that binds people, whether it is race, religion, shared history...

An example of this is Paris, you look at photos of Paris in the 30s and it's impressive, it looks like what you would imagine France to look like. Today, oof... It looks like a former European colony that once had nice buildings.

I watched a youtube video of the first Televised Olympics, i was watching the athlete parades and the Swedish team was actually Swedish, Italy was actually Italians. Today, why even bother having the Olympics. Sweden has half the team from S0m@lia (im exaggerating but you know what i am trying to get at)

[2011change]

Still crying over the Iranian president?

How much they paying you Da-VID?

[nkiritsis13]

I'm not arguing for Christian nationalism, but I am noticing this refrain from the Left that Christian nationalism is a threat the United States. Many of these same people are ardent supporters of Israel and hardcore Zionist. How does one rationalize supporting one, but condemning the other?

See, that sort of level-headed, rational thinking is why you aren't getting a straight answer.

"Double Standards" is practically an unwritten tenant to Zionism. E.g., uncontrolled waves of immigration by the culturally incompatible for thee (the West), not for me (Israel).

For some inexplicable, hypocritical reason, Israel must be preserved at all costs (ours), but god forbid Western nations regulate who these NGOs keep shipping over Western borders from the exact same people Israel is being protected against.

People get too caught up on the whole Israel/Zionism = Jewish, anti-Zionism = anti-antisemitism trap that is just a means by those in power to shift blame and shame on critics to protect themselves, not the average Jewish person like they lead others to believe. For all intents and purpose, we could call the whole lot of Zionists in power regardless of their claimed religion to be state-sponsored lizard people and it would be just applicable... maybe too much.

Interesting - you brought up and continue to harp on the issue of the right wing Christians supporting Zionism which I completely agree with and dislike, but somehow you think because that's true that there aren't leftists who worry about Christian nationalisn that support Zionism?

Both can exist at the same time. Seems you're trying very hard to distract from that.

For once Leonydus is right, you'te not answering the question - are the two compatible together?

And both do exist at the same time.

Leftist politicians and their unwavering sycophants are all on board with supporting Israel and Zionism while simultaneously fearmongering about "far right" Christians/Nationalists/whatever threat of the month.

"Separation of Church and State" is not what you think it means when applied to the US as the origin of the term. Separation of Church & State was never in the Constitution. It was in a letter that Jefferson wrote to the Danberry Baptist Church in Connecticut because the church felt the first amendment was not strong enough to protect religious freedom. Jefferson assured them that the Constitution built a wall separating the church & State, meaning the State could not control the Church. It means the exact OPPOSITE of what you & many others misuse it for


In fact, every single state Constitution makes explicit references to God & religion.

It's not like he'd understand being from Koalastan.

The United States, like many other Western nations for that matter, are at the very least culturally Christian to use the term Richard Dawkins chose to apply to himself as well despite being an atheist.

[Bodhy]

I actually said the US is an example of a nation which is steeped in Christian value, but because the West has a lot of secular Enlightenment philosophy mixed in, it has the separation of church and state but religious freedom.

Consistent really, with that weird flex of "Hey look at me! I know some history about the Constitution!".

[isingmodel]

Interesting - you brought up and continue to harp on the issue of the right wing Christians supporting Zionism which I completely agree with and dislike, but somehow you think because that's true that there aren't leftists who worry about Christian nationalisn that support Zionism?

Both can exist at the same time. Seems you're trying very hard to distract from that.

For once Leonydus is right, you'te not answering the question - are the two compatible together?

The kind of leftists who are concerned with and ultra hostile to Christianity in the US are the same kind of leftists to be wearing Keffiyeh's, flying Marxist flags, threatening pro-lifers and calling for the dissolution of Isrsel.

[Deathstroke]

White evangelicals strongly support the MAGA movement in large to Christian nationalism.

I prefer no government make decisions on internal politics using their religious views.

I always also disliked the idea of combining church and state. Should be totally separate. It gives religion too much influence over citizens like that Muslim nations in ME. Not Palestine I don’t mean… they’re not an actual state lolol poor bastards . But ya it also grants government power over who gets to worship which god and how.

[CalmWind]

yeah the left is insane. they are the threat to america.


the US was founded by, and comprised of, Christian Nationalists for about 200 years.... the liberals are the ones who are insane and are a threat.

[Bodhy]

White evangelicals strongly support the MAGA movement in large to Christian nationalism.

I prefer no government make decisions on internal politics using their religious views.

I always also disliked the idea of combining church and state. Should be totally separate. It gives religion too much influence over citizens like that Muslim nations in ME. Not Palestine I don’t mean… they’re not an actual state lolol poor bastards . But ya it also grants government power over who gets to worship which god and how.

The problem is Dispensational Theology. A fundamentalist form of Christianity which is expounded by Pentecostals, Baptists etc. and their zeal to evangelize abroad. It was a massive driver of Trump's ascension to office.

Dispsentational Theology teaches that Christ will return after literal jewish people return to a literal country called Israel. This is not orthodox Christianity, of course, but American Evangelicals believe Gods will is to have a literal Israel made of literal jews. The point is that Republicans unconditionally support the current nation state called "Israel" and give carte-blanche to any bad thing this nation state does.

Republicans, hence, are fulfilling God's will and Democrats are anti-God, demonic, Satanic etc. all based on esoteric theology which isn't even mainline Christianity or scripturally sound.

You have to keep in mind how far roots of extreme fundamentalist Christianity are driving today's right-wing politics. More than 80 percent of white right evangelicals voted for Trump in 2016, and nearly half of Republicans believe Trump was chosen by God to be President.

The New Apostolic Reformation, for example, blames demons for the worlds problems and their followers are commanded to engage in sorts of spiritual warfare, but they're really being used in the interests of right-wing agendas.



Not only are fundamentalist religious zealots impossible to reason with, they literally want to install a theocracy via Trump, even though he is the embodiment of the seven deadly sins.

[dabbmw2002]

The kind of leftists who are concerned with and ultra hostile to Christianity in the US are the same kind of leftists to be wearing Keffiyeh's, flying Marxist flags, threatening pro-lifers and calling for the dissolution of Isrsel.

Leftist politicians and their unwavering sycophants are all on board with supporting Israel and Zionism while simultaneously fearmongering about "far right" Christians/Nationalists/whatever threat of the month.

These are the people I'm talking about which you keep on ignoring. You do understand that not all leftists are the same right? Apparently not. Keep avoiding it.

[Mark1T]

Not a direct response, but I have never supported Israel because of any religious reasons - at all.

I support Israel mainly for our and our allies' national security.

Militarily, having a strategic partner in the Middle East is extremely valuable. I respect Israel's religion, but I don't need the religion.

[Abzu]

Not a direct response, but I have never supported Israel because of any religious reasons - at all.

I support Israel mainly for our and our allies' national security.

Militarily, having a strategic partner in the Middle East is extremely valuable. I respect Israel's religion, but I don't need the religion.

We don;t need any one nation to be our strategic partner, America has and has had many strategic partners in the ME, Iran used to be out strategic partner lol.

America has Turkey, Jordan and the KSA among many others, we can project power from their bases across the ME and they provide unique intelligence.

America has allies in every corner of the globe, if israel didn't exist then America would still have a presence in the ME but with less acrimony.

[Paul Kreul]

The problem is Dispensational Theology. A fundamentalist form of Christianity which is expounded by Pentecostals, Baptists etc. and their zeal to evangelize abroad. It was a massive driver of Trump's ascension to office.

Dispsentational Theology teaches that Christ will return after literal jewish people return to a literal country called Israel. This is not orthodox Christianity, of course, but American Evangelicals believe Gods will is to have a literal Israel made of literal jews. The point is that Republicans unconditionally support the current nation state called "Israel" and give carte-blanche to any bad thing this nation state does.

Republicans, hence, are fulfilling God's will and Democrats are anti-God, demonic, Satanic etc. all based on esoteric theology which isn't even mainline Christianity or scripturally sound.

You have to keep in mind how far roots of extreme fundamentalist Christianity are driving today's right-wing politics. More than 80 percent of white right evangelicals voted for Trump in 2016, and nearly half of Republicans believe Trump was chosen by God to be President.

The New Apostolic Reformation, for example, blames demons for the worlds problems and their followers are commanded to engage in sorts of spiritual warfare, but they're really being used in the interests of right-wing agendas.



Not only are fundamentalist religious zealots impossible to reason with, they literally want to install a theocracy via Trump, even though he is the embodiment of the seven deadly sins.

First off, 7 deadly sins are not even Biblical.

Second, the reason so many Christians push for Conservatism is due to the principles & just basic common sense of morality & creation we find in the Bible. While Liberals display nothing but degeneracy, push for state power, & have shown themselves to have absolutely no common sense.

Said it before in another thread but just in the last decade liberalism has brought you the following..

-There are more than 2 genders

-Most use proper pronouns

-Cannot define what a woman is

-Despite the very definition of the word, life “doesn’t really begin at conception”

-Push to disarm law abiding citizens (Jesus told his disciples to carry a sword when they go out)

-Push homosexuality on all including children

-Decriminalizing p3dofilla :CASB140

-Constantly promote sex outside of marriage

-Vein look at me culture, the epitome of vanity

On & on it goes, the left destroys while conservatives want to “conserve” law & morality.

[Mark1T]

We don;t need any one nation to be our strategic partner, America has and has had many strategic partners in the ME, Iran used to be out strategic partner lol.

America has Turkey, Jordan and the KSA among many others, we can project power from their bases across the ME and they provide unique intelligence.

America has allies in every corner of the globe, if israel didn't exist then America would still have a presence in the ME but with less acrimony.

I appreciate your opinion, but it is a biased opinion. Turkey, Jordan, KSA do not keep Iran in check and Israel does a better job at keeping track and eliminating terror groups like ISIS. If any nation can keep Iran in check and wipe it off the map if it comes to that, it would only be Israel.

[Abzu]

I appreciate your opinion, but it is a biased opinion. Turkey, Jordan, KSA do not keep Iran in check and Israel does a better job at keeping track and eliminating terror groups like ISIS. If any nation can keep Iran in check and wipe it off the map if it comes to that, it would only be Israel.

Of course, no one can keep Iran in check in the ME, they are the natural superpower of the region but why do we need to keep a former U.S. ally in check?

Turkey, Jordan, and KSA are all majority Sunni Muslims, Iran is majority Shia, they are natural enemies and we play them against each other.

Isreal and KSA form terror groups like ISIS to compel the American public to support ME intervention but it's for isreal, not America.

[isingmodel]

These are the people I'm talking about which you keep on ignoring. You do understand that not all leftists are the same right? Apparently not. Keep avoiding it.

Which leftist politicians? AOC? Bernie? Omar?The ones who have all accused Israel of perpetuating ethnic cleansing/genocide?

Please be specific. Find me some sizeable cohort of leftist politicians who are simultaneously warning about the dangers of Christian fundamentalism/nationalism in the US whilst also being staunch Zionists.

Just believing that Israel shouldn't be destroyed does not = Zionist either, so try and be intellectually honest in the process.

[2011change]

Not a direct response, but I have never supported Israel because of any religious reasons - at all.

I support Israel mainly for our and our allies' national security.

Militarily, having a strategic partner in the Middle East is extremely valuable. I respect Israel's religion, but I don't need the religion.

And you welcome these fcks destroying America internal?

Mark is a zionist supporter who dosent love AMERICA

[Mark1T]

And you welcome these fcks destroying America internal?

Mark is a zionist supporter who dosent love AMERICA

Low-lifes like you are more dangerous to America. Take the train.

[2011change]

Low-lifes like you are more dangerous to America. Take the train.

Take the chemo and stop breathing.

[isingmodel]

Which leftist politicians? AOC? Bernie? Omar?The ones who have all accused Israel of perpetuating ethnic cleansing/genocide?

Please be specific. Find me some sizeable cohort of leftist politicians who are simultaneously warning about the dangers of Christian fundamentalism/nationalism in the US whilst also being staunch Zionists.

Just believing that Israel shouldn't be destroyed does not = Zionist either, so try and be intellectually honest in the process.

Awfully quiet once I asked him to actually name some names.