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  1. #1
    Not Swimming. Emma-Leigh's Avatar
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    Nutrition For Newbies & Must Read Threads

    Due to recent discussion in THIS THREAD it was decided that there is a real need for a 'Basic principles of Nutrition' sticky. In essence, something that includes:
    - Basic concept of calories & macros
    - Basic concept of micronutrients & health
    - Basic concept of IIFYM & importance of food selection
    - Basic concept of other things such as 'meal frequency / meal timing' and other what not....

    It's aim is to be a quick reference/ FAQ with links to other useful threads and stickies for those who want more details.

    So this is the sticky from which we will build that sticky -->> somewhere for people to post a write up of their own that covers the above, which we can collect to create a 'master sticky'.

    That means you should feel free to post your 'post' / submission...
    For everyone's sake, PLEASE keep FLAMING to a MINIMUM. The idea is to try to work together and create a general reference... It is not a place to start an e-war....

    Rightio.... let's see what we can get out of this experiment in 'e-community knowledge' stuff!





    Adding to this -- for all those newbies looking for information / must read threads... A list to start:
    1. READ THE STICKIES!

    2. READ THE STICKIES!!

    3. READ THE STICKIES IN THE ADVANCED SECTION

    4. OTHER GOOD READS

    If anyone has any thread suggestions, feel free to PM me.
    Last edited by Emma-Leigh; 12-09-2011 at 11:03 AM.
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  2. #2
    Pizzabrah YeomenKek's Avatar
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    Discretionary Calorie Allowance (Body Building Edition)


    Discretionary Calories Allowance (DCA) is the difference between your daily caloric intake and your essential calories needed to meet nutrient requirements. In other words, it’s the extra calories you have after you eat all the essential calories, all within your total caloric intake.
    - http://rockwellfitness.com/?page_id=1240

    Body builder’s & athletes generally need a different quantity of macronutrients than regular sedentary folk - we're not looking to simply survive, we want to get big and strong! I'm using guidelines more suited for active individuals outlined in the Calculating Calories and Macro’s sticky for this example.

    Quick example:

    -200lb man at 20% body fat wants to lose weight
    -Maintenance calories: 3000
    -Calories to cut: 2400
    -Macro and micronutrient requirements fulfilled with: 2000 calories
    -He has 400 calories left to fill with foods he chooses. These foods should contribute to optimal performance, recovery, and growth based on the individuals needs, preference, and personal response.
    Last edited by YeomenKek; 07-25-2011 at 05:46 PM.
    Log: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159405991
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  3. #3
    Registered User theoxmancometh's Avatar
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    Nice explanation. I think it's also important to state that those "Discretionary Calories" still need to be eaten in order to properly lose weight. I'm by far no expert at this, but many people have told me that if you don't fill those calories up then you are going to slow down your weight loss rate because it's too high of a caloric deficit. Is that correct?
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  4. #4
    Registered User ko300zx's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by YeomenKek View Post
    Discretionary Calorie Allowance (Body Building Edition)


    Discretionary Calories Allowance (DCA) is the difference between your daily caloric intake and your essential calories needed to meet nutrient requirements. In other words, it’s the extra calories you have after you eat all the essential calories, all within your total caloric intake.
    - http://rockwellfitness.com/?page_id=1240

    Body builder’s & athletes generally need a different quantity of macronutrients than regular sedentary folk - we're not looking to simply survive, we want to get big and strong! I'm using guidelines more suited for active individuals outlined in the Calculating Calories and Macro’s sticky for this example.

    Quick example:

    -200lb man at 20% body fat wants to lose weight
    -Maintenance calories: 3000
    -Calories to cut: 2400
    -1.5g protein per lb/LBM: (1.5 * 160) 240g
    -0.45g fat per lb/BW: (200 * 0.45) 90g
    -Calories from fats + protein minimums: (240 * 4) + (90 * 9) = 1770
    -Calories from reaching minimums taken from calories to cut: (2400 - 1770) 630
    -He has 630 kcal left to fill with whatever foods he chooses and still lose weight as a result of remaining in a calorie deficit.
    I would edit the example as the following:

    -Calories to cut: 2400
    -Macro and micronutrient requirements fulfilled with: 2000 calories
    -He has 400 calories left to fill with foods he chooses. These foods should contribute to optimal performance, recovery, and growth based on the individuals needs, preference, and personal response.
    Or something similar. Get rid of the protein/fat calculations and all the stuff that isn't relevant to presenting the point. They are completely unnecessary. The concept can be explained without it. And instead of just saying "whatever he chooses," explain that those food choices should contribute to performance, recovery, etc based on how the individual responds. Example: If the person uses the 1.5g per lb/lbm, additional protein is most likely not necessary for this person as 1.5 is generally closer to the maximum end of the spectrum, not minimum. Perhaps fat or carbs will be a better alternative for this person.


    Originally Posted by Emma-Leigh View Post
    - Basic concept of calories & macros
    - Basic concept of micronutrients & health
    - Basic concept of IIFYM & importance of food selection
    - Basic concept of other things such as 'meal frequency / meal timing' and other what not....
    It may not be a bad idea to scrap the term "IIFYM" from any future stickies and simply explain food selection. If it is important to include the acronym to alleviate the IIFYM spam, it should be very carefully worded. Get the BBing.com lawyers out.
    Last edited by ko300zx; 07-25-2011 at 06:09 AM.
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  5. #5
    USAPL Nut Hugger ErickStevens's Avatar
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    Moderation. Noun. The quality of being moderate; Restraint; Avoidance of extremes or excesses; Temperance.

    Nothing more, nothing less. No minimums, no maximums, no ratios, no good food, no bad food, no black, and no white.

    It's not a diet, it's not a lifestyle - It's just a philosophy that's intended to make your life easier.

    IIFYM does not mean you can eat however much of whatever you want. It means you can maintain your sanity by eating like a regular human being from time to time.

    It's important to note that most rational IIFYM followers like myself eat a diet comprised of mainly whole and unprocessed foods. Since you're smart enough to turn on a computer I imagine your smart enough to deduce that you shouldn't eat Swedish Fish for the majority of your carbohydrate intake or get your dietary fat intake from only ice cream.
    Last edited by ErickStevens; 07-25-2011 at 07:28 AM.
    "Nutrition for powerlifting: If you are serious about it, you will eat f*cking everything and get strong as $hit." - HamburgerTrain
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  6. #6
    Registered User ko300zx's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ErickStevens View Post
    Since you're smart enough to turn on a computer I imagine your smart enough to deduce that you should eat Swedish Fish for the majority of your carbohydrate intake or get your dietary fat intake from only ice cream.
    Uh oh.
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  7. #7
    USAPL Nut Hugger ErickStevens's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ko300zx View Post
    Uh oh.
    lmao. Good catch.
    "Nutrition for powerlifting: If you are serious about it, you will eat f*cking everything and get strong as $hit." - HamburgerTrain
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=155661573&pagenumber=
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  8. #8
    Registered User peteyboy1015's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ErickStevens View Post
    lmao. Good catch.
    I was about to say the same thing, but I merely thought you were being sarcastic, lol.
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  9. #9
    Clean Fulking waatsgood's Avatar
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    Ill start by quoting Emma

    Originally Posted by Emma-Leigh View Post
    Start here: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=121703981


    1. What is a good meal to eat when you first wake up?
    What you feel like.
    But you don't have to eat when you first get up.

    2. What is a good pre-workout meal
    What you feel like.
    But you don't have to eat pre workout.

    3.What should a good post-workout meal comprise of
    What you feel like.
    But you don't have to eat post workout.

    4. If my RMR is 1646 should i drop calories below that to lose weight or below my BMR?
    No. See link above.

    5. When counting calories do you incorporate the ones from supplements ex. a pre workout supplement has 40 cals do you count that toward your daily consumption?
    If you want to count them, do so. What ever you do - be consistent with it, as it is your ability to CHANGE your diet in response to RESULTS that matters.

    6. Can anyone make a list of good food for cutting/toning. If I would go to the grocery store what should I buy? Please include brand names if possible.
    No such thing as toning - that is a word marketing companies developed so they wouldn't scare females away from their products/ training.
    Tone = more muscle, less fat.
    Foods? What ever you feel like that keeps you healthy while you reach your goals.

    7. Good meal before bed (other than caesin)
    What you feel like.
    But you don't have to eat pre bed.

    8. Should you eat no carbs after a certain time?
    No. Eat them when you feel like.

    9. Explain complex/ simple carbs and when they are best used.
    Old data. Eat what ever carbs you want should they fit your diet.
    Doesn't matter in the context of a mixed meal.

    10. Any other usefull information or insight about nutrition for gaining/preserving muscle & losing weight.
    Your mind is currently so clouded by 'what you think you need to do' that you are failing to see the nonsense of your current beliefs.... Don't allow yourself to be spoon fed the typical crap that people try to force into the fitness industry.

    Read as much as possible, sourced from REAL information sources - this means sources that are NOT 'that big guy' at the gym.
    Start with the stickies here: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=261
    And then read the work of people like Alan Aragon, Lyle McDonald, Martin Berkhan....

    Free your mind, educate yourself, and learn....
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  10. #10
    ass dat's Avatar
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    I think you've all missed the point.

    This is for dummies. The only prerequisite is a knowledge of simple English and 8th grade mathematics.

    ----------

    INTRODUCTION

    This is a basic introduction to "bodybuilding nutrition". Some facts/points are purposefully simplified to avoid confusion.

    What is a Calorie?

    A Calorie is a unit of energy. The human body needs energy to work. Humans acquire energy through food consumption. The amount of calories in a food can be found on nutritiondata.com, or where possible, on the food's packaging.

    What is a Macronutrient (Macro)?
    The energy (Calorie) content of all foods come from the macronutrients in the food. The macronutrients you need to know about are protein, fats, carbohydrates and alcohol. Macronutrients are the fuel that gives your body energy.
    -One gram of protein provides 4 Calories.
    -One gram of carbohydrates provides 4 Calories.
    -One gram of fats provides 9 Calories.
    -One gram of alcohol providies 7 Calories.

    The macronutrient content of a food can be found on nutritiondata.com, or where possible, on the food's packaging.

    What is a Micronutrient?
    Micronutrients are required by your body to operate properly, or in a healthy manner. Micronutrients include things like vitamins and minerals. Micronutrients are like the "oil", "brake fluid", etc. that keep your body running smoothly. The micronutrient content of foods can be found on nutritiondata.com. "Whole" foods generally contain more micronutrients than "processed" foods.


    BODY COMPOSITION

    Of all the things the body is made of, the most important components are muscle, fat and water.
    -A marathon runner has LOW muscle mass, and LOW fat mass.
    -The average, sedentary person has LOW muscle mass, and HIGH fat mass.
    -A "toned" person has MODERATE muscle mass, and LOW-MODERATE fat mass.
    -A sprinter/weightlifter/bodybuilder has HIGH muscle mass, and LOW fat mass.
    -A sumo wrestler has HIGH muscle mass, and HIGH fat mass.

    Body fat percentage (BF%) is a good measure of body composition. As a guideline for men (for women add 5%):
    -BF% < 10%: Six pack abs, ripped.
    -BF% 10%-15%: Shapely abs, muscular shape evident without flexing. Waist < hips.
    -BF% 15%-20%: "Soft" looking, some muscular shape for highly muscular individuals. Waist ~ hips.
    -BF% 20%-25%: Love handles (men), thunder thighs (women). Waist > hips.
    -BF% 25%-35%: Obese.
    -BF% 35%+: Morbidly obese.

    You can estimate your body fat percentage using just a measuring tape. See this page for example.


    GAINING AND LOSING WEIGHT

    -To gain weight, you need to take in more calories from food than your body expends.
    -To maximise muscle gain and minimise fat gain, you need to eat a GOOD DIET and EXERCISE including WEIGHT TRAINING.
    -Aim to gain 1-1.5kg or 2-3lbs a month, any more may result in excessive fat gain.

    -To lose weight, you need to take in less calories from food than your body expends.
    -To maximise fat loss and minimise muscle loss, you need to eat a GOOD DIET and EXERCISE.
    -Aim to lose 2-3kg or 4-6lbs a month, any more may result in excessive muscle loss.


    HOW MANY CALORIES DOES MY BODY EXPEND?

    Follow the above link, focus currently on the "Katch-McArdle" section under "Estimating Requirements", and multiply the BMR by an appropriate Activity Factor.

    This should give you a good ESTIMATE for your maintenance.


    SET CALORIE AND MACRONUTRIENT GOALS

    CALORIES
    -If you want to gain weight, multiply your maintenance by 1.1.
    -If you want to lose weight, multiply your maintenance by 0.9.
    -If your calorie target is below 1500, consider extra exercise to increase your maintenance as it may be difficult to intake adequate amounts of macro/micronutrients.

    PROTEIN
    -Protein is important for muscle gain and recovery, among other things.
    -Aim for 2 grams per kg of body weight, or 1 gram per lb of body weight.

    FATS
    -Fats are NOT BAD, in fact, fats are important for satiety, hair/skin health, hormonal health, etc. Do not neglect dietary fats. Fats are TASTY!
    -Aim for 1-2 grams per kg of body weight, or 0.5-1 grams per lb of body weight. Aim for the lower target if you are trying to lose weight, and the higher if you are trying to gain.

    CARBS
    -Carbohydrates are generally used by your body just for the energy content. But they're tasty and commonly found.
    -You do not need to make a solid target for carbs but make sure you get some.

    ALCOHOL
    -Alcohols are not necessary for your body.
    -Less is better but some is fine.


    DESIGNING(?) A DIET

    You do not need to design a daily food plan and follow it religiously. It can be a good exercise to do in order to get an idea of the amount of food you should be eating though.

    You need to keep track of what you eat, and know how to count calories and macronutrient amounts. See here for some pointers. Track EVERYTHING YOU EAT, including that cookie you had as a snack, the dressing on your salad, etc.

    Your primary goals are:
    -Reach your protein and fat goals (excess is OK as long as you do not break any other goals)
    -Eat a variety of "good" foods including fruits, vegetables, nuts, meats, fish, wholegrains.
    -Drink plenty of water.

    After fulfilling these goals for the day, you can consume ANYTHING* you want in order to reach your calorie goal. Aim to hit your calorie goal as accurately as possible.
    *Use common sense.

    Secondary goals (which should be achieved with a good diet) include:
    -Enough fibre to keep you "regular".
    -Avoid trans fats.
    -Avoid excessive amounts of salty foods.

    By reaching these primary goals, you should get a good range of micronutrients to keep you healthy. Feel free to read this thread for more information on macro/micronutrients, sources and uses.

    Things you do not need to do (unless you are a very high-performance athlete, in which case you should not be reading this):
    -Eat x meals a day. It does not matter how many times a day you eat, or when. All that matters is what you eat per day.
    -Take a multivitamin. Micronutrients are generally absorbed much better by the body when they have come from a whole food source.
    -Eat this before/after a workout. current scientific consensus suggets that nutrient timing is irrelevant.
    -Take casein/"slow acting" protein or eat cottage cheese before bed to prevent going "catabolic". If you eat a proper daily diet, you won't go "catabolic".
    -Buy supplement x which promises "insert outrageous claim". If they worked and were legal and safe, I wouldn't have wrote this. See below...


    SUPPLEMENTS

    ...are not necessary. See this excellent article (and the following parts if you wish) for a good discussion of why supplements aren't necessary for most people.
    -Protein powders are fine and can help you reach your protein goal easier. They are practically a "food" anyway, be sure to consume them along with a variety of other protein sources in your diet.


    ASSESSING YOUR DIET

    Before starting your new diet (and exercise program), measure your body weight and your body fat percentage. Feel free to take photos as well.

    Follow your new diet for AT LEAST 2 weeks before measuring again and passing judgement. Resist the temptation to measure daily as natural fluctuation occurs.

    If you are trying to lose weight but have not lost weight, either:
    -Reduce your calorie target by 5% (multiply by 0.95)
    -Increase the amount of exercise you do.

    If you are trying to gain weight but have not gained weight:
    -Increase your calorie intake by 5% (multiply by 1.05)
    іяс
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  11. #11
    The Merciful alan aragon's Avatar
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    IMO, there's already a thread about figuring kcals & macros. I think that it's just dandy. If there really are folks who don't know that prot & carb are 4 kcal per gram & fat is 9 kcal per gram, then why not just put that in the existing sticky. If there's anything glaringly missing from Emma's sticky, then this maybe should be a thread about what's missing from it. If there needs to be a blurb in there about discretionary kcals & food choices, then so be it - but I don't see the huge need for another sticky about it.

    Another idea would be to make an FAQ thread that covers stuff other than kcal/macro calculations -- but then this is kind of what the forum is for, lul.

    Those are my 1st thoughts.
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    This may help with the questions regarding amount of weight possible to lose or gain in a period of time.

    Setting a realistic goal of weight loss/gain

    Setting a goal for yourself is an important step in reaching your desired physique or level of health. When setting this goal make sure it is specific , measurable, attainable, realistic, and time bound. Most of these criteria are no real mystery and can be met fairly easily. The one that most people that are new to bodybuilding can sometimes be confused about is setting a realistic goal.

    The reality of a weight loss time frame:

    You will only loss weight relative to the calories you expend in relation to the calories you consume. This averages out to be about a pound a week if you have a 500 calorie deficit, meaning you eat 500 less calories than you burn. Yes it can be higher but the upper limit is generally thought to be about 1000 calories for safe weight loss.

    The rules for the very obese are a little different. Those who have a very large amount of weight to lose can generally get away with a greater deficit without causing potential harm.

    A realistic weight loss goal time frame for the average person with 20 lbs to lose is about 20 weeks, or five months.

    The reality of a muscle gain time frame:

    It takes about the same amount of calories in surplus to gain a pound of muscle that it takes to lose a pound of fat. There is a good amount of math involved and it is beyond the scope of this post. In short you need to eat more to gain muscle. Typically someone will either be building muscle/bulking, or losing fat/cutting. there are programs that are designed to help you do both over a much longer span of time, so for the very patient these can be a good idea; However most people tend to stick to the one or the other method.

    However to minimize fat gain while bulking it is important to only eat at around a 10% too 15% surplus. This is because your body does not build muscle with all the excess calories, three comes a point where the excess is stored as fat. In short do not expect to gain more than 1 pound of muscle every two weeks.

    The realistic goal time frame to build 10 pounds of muscle is 20 weeks or 5 months. This next part is important so pay attention. that time frame assumes all nutrition and training are exactly on point and you are continuing to challenge your muscles with every single workout. For the average person , expect to gain 1 pound of muscle a month.
    Last edited by Dujin77; 07-26-2011 at 12:54 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Emma-Leigh View Post

    Some general 'bodybuilding' guidelines would be as follows:
    - If bodyfat UNKNOWN but AVERAGE = 1-1.25g per pound TOTAL weight
    - If bodyfat KNOWN = 1.25-1.5g per pound LEAN weight
    If you are VERY LEAN or if you are on a LOW TOTAL CALORIE INTAKE then protein becomes more important - so:
    - Average bodyfat, lower calorie intake = 1.25-1.5 per pound total mass
    - Bodyfat known, lower calorie intake = 1.33-2 per pounds lean mass
    If you are VERY OVERWEIGHT, VERY INACTIVE, and NOT on a lower calorie diet then you can decrease slightly BELOW the above levels:
    - overweight or high calorie intake = ~ 1 x LEAN mass to 0.8-1 x total weight in pounds

    Anecdotally, most find the HIGHER protein intake better for satiety, partitioning, and blood sugar control. So UNLESS you are specifically guided to use the GENERAL sports nutrition guidelines, I would suggest the BODYBUILDING values.
    It seems to me that there is a disconnect between the macronutrient sticky with respect to protein and the recommendations given in the nutrition forum for bodybuilders. The sticky has various recommendations and some of them are quite high.

    But when we give out recommendations to people we usually say the following no matter who it is:

    1-1.5g of protein per lb of lean body mass
    .45g of fat minimum per lb of body weight.

    Is the sticky outdated or are we oversimplifying it?
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    Macros

    - Should be based on total in relation to your weight, not predetermined percentages (i.e. 40/40/20) because protein and fat are essential macronutrients, meaning your body has specific needs for each based on your body size.

    Dietary minimums

    Protein- 1-1.5g/lb bodyweight (higher need if lean). Protein will support muscle growth or preservation and provide satiety.

    Fat- 0.4-0.5g/ lb bodyweight in fat (Higher end if lean and Focus on EFAs) to help with hormones, satiety, essential fatty acids, and vitamin absorption.

    Fill out the rest of your caloric intake with additional carbs and/or more fat and protein based on preference. Carbs are not an essential macronutrient so there is no minimum intake requirement. Although there is no physiological need for carbohydrates, servings of veggies are a good way to get at least a baseline level of micronutrients, vitamins, fiber, etc.

    Carbohydrate sources provide many of the micronutrients our bodies need to function optimally, and many prefer it as their main source of energy once protein and fat are met.

    To bulk, start by adding 10% to your maintenance calorie level. For cutting, start by subtracting 10% from maintenance calorie level.

    My general guide to sources
    I. Protein- lean meats, low fat dairy, protein powders, seafood, eggs

    II. Fats
    a. Primary Sources- Fish oil, fatty fish, MCTs, nut Butters, nuts, flax and other seeds, oils, avocado.

    b. Secondary sources- yolks, cheese, red meat.

    c. Trans Fat should be Avoided
    Why avoid trans fat?
    - Trans fat decreases insulin sensitivity
    Trans fat increases insulin response to glucose
    Trans fat hampers immune system function
    Trans fat raises the “bad” LDL cholesterol in your bloodstream
    Trans fat lowers HDL (good) cholesterol
    Trans fat increases blood triglycerides
    Trans fat interferes with your liver’s detoxification processes
    Trans fat may cause cancer
    Trans fat interferes with EFA functions
    Trans fat makes your platelets stickier

    d. Saturated fat is fine and will not a deleterious effects if it is not over-consumed. Over-consumption of saturated fat would occur when it prevents you from getting adequate EFAs, MCTs, and monounsaturated fats. Not all saturated fat is equal either. For example coconut oil is primarily composed of lauric acid and MCTs (good), while beef is composed of stearic (good) and palmilitic (bad) acids. In general, saturated fat has been seen to raise LDL and HDL cholesterol, polyunsaturated fat has been seen to lower both, and monounsaturated fats has been shown to raise HDL and lower LDL. Therefore, consuming a sound ratio of the three is important. I would suggest around 50-55% monos, 20-30% polys, around 15-25% saturated.

    III. Carbohydrates
    a. Primary- Fibrous Veggies- broccoli, spinach, cauliflower, greens, asparagus, green beans, peppers
    b. Primary (II)- Low fat dairy, fruit, whole grains (breads, oats, cereals etc.)
    c. Secondary- Starchier carbs (potatoes, pasta, rice)
    d. Limited- Processed/refined sources, High fructose corn syrup

    Micronutrients and health
    Although no food is essential to health, I believe the majority of one’s diet should be comprised of whole, nutrient dense foods. Everyone should have a solid foundation to base their diet around starting with a good number of servings of vegetables and fish oil.
    http://whole9life.com/fish-oil/

    Why fiber is important

    Benefits of Insoluble Fiber
    - promote regular bowel movement and prevent constipation
    - remove toxic waste through colon in less time
    - help prevent colon cancer by keeping an optimal pH in intestines to prevent microbes from producing cancerous substances
    - move bulk through the intestines
    - control and balance the pH (acidity) in the intestines
    -Improve insulin sensitivity
    Benefits of Soluble Fiber
    -bind with fatty acids
    - prolong stomach emptying time so that sugar is released and absorbed more slowly
    - lower total cholesterol and LDL cholesterol (the Bad cholesterol) therefore reducing the risk of heart disease
    - regulate blood sugar for people with diabetes

    What about IIFYM?

    I understand the theory behind IIFYM and I don’t care that it is the new fad is in this forum. I still am of the opinion based on lots of research, that not all sources of foods will have the same effect on the body and lead to the same results.

    Yes a calorie deficit will lead to weight loss and a surplus will result in gains. It seems to me as if a lot of people take IIFYM too far, and are constantly complaining about bulks gone wrong or lack of satiety. Perhaps if you ate a little more lean meat and veggies and less ice cream and fruit loops, you wouldn't feel this way.

    Things like HFCS are more likely to be converted to fat than complex carbs that are glucose based because of the differences in how they are digested. I also believe that whole foods will provide you with better energy to sustain workouts and recover in the long wrong run, which will have a positive effect on body composition for cuts or bulks.

    I think most people have a misconception of the difference between volume and satiety as a result of IIFYM. Just because a food is high in volume does not mean it will provide long-term satiety. I think sometimes people get confused and think larger volume = greater satiety. Protein fluff may be low cal and high volume but it won't stick with you because the volume is created by air, so the feeling of fullness disappears shortly after digesting.
    Meat, cheese, beans, oats, etc are more dense but will stick with you longer.
    Or some of the cereal mix ins in the sludge thread that are hi vol/low cal
    Generally a reason why they are --> not much to them.

    If you always go high volume, the stomach will expand, which is why people bulking can be hungrier than when they cut and their stomach shrinks.

    According to studies, oats provide 2x more satiety than most cold cereals and potatoes about 3x (calorie for calorie). Factor in if you are eating cereal, you may be eating it with GY yogurt as a protein source or milk, which are less than half as satiating as eggs or meat. And factor in that sugar can cause hunger cravings and many spices (garlic) suppress appetite.
    There is a reason men back in the old days were all about steak and potatoes.

    Lastly, I believe in whole foods because we should be concerned with long term health, not just short term body composition. Yes you can get jacked or cut eating either chicken and broccoli or Mcdonald's and Ben and Jerry's, but the long term impact will be significantly different. Having too many IIFYM type foods will lead to poorer nutritional habits that will be harder to break years down the road. It would be better to start by building a diet with nutrient dense, whole foods.

    I believe IIFYM has its place in regards to not being severely restrictive with your diet. It is ok to allow yourself some occasional indulgences, enjoy holidays/ family get-togethers, or going out to restaurants.

    More to blame then IIFYM are the workout freaks with high calorie requirements. They can get away with eating a certain way because of the way they workout and the amount of discretionary calories they have. You, most likely don't train like them or have their metabolism.

    What has little to no effect beyond personal preference?
    -Meal timing and meal frequency (more meals does not speed up metabolism, total calories and macros determine TEF).

    You are not Unique
    Despite what your mother always told you, you are not special. You need rest days. You are not carb sensitive. Your metabolism isn't totally screwed up. You don't have poor genetics. Calorie need formulas do apply to you. You dont carry the ajority of fat in your abs. You can't lose fat and gain muscle simultaneously. You arent eating enough calories if your bulk is going no where. You aren't the only one who is self-conscious about your body image or how much you can lift at the gym.
    Last edited by determined4000; 07-26-2011 at 07:35 PM.
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  15. #15
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    Originally Posted by ko300zx View Post
    I would edit the example as the following:



    Or something similar. Get rid of the protein/fat calculations and all the stuff that isn't relevant to presenting the point. They are completely unnecessary. The concept can be explained without it. And instead of just saying "whatever he chooses," explain that those food choices should contribute to performance, recovery, etc based on how the individual responds. Example: If the person uses the 1.5g per lb/lbm, additional protein is most likely not necessary for this person as 1.5 is generally closer to the maximum end of the spectrum, not minimum. Perhaps fat or carbs will be a better alternative for this person.




    It may not be a bad idea to scrap the term "IIFYM" from any future stickies and simply explain food selection. If it is important to include the acronym to alleviate the IIFYM spam, it should be very carefully worded. Get the BBing.com lawyers out.
    I think that's a good idea, I'll edit your example in.

    Setting up a Diet (Video Tutorial)

    Here’s a vid of me setting up a diet using a free account on www.fitday.com
    Make sure you’ve read the Calculating Calories and Macro’s sticky to calculate what calories & macronutrients you should be aiming for based on your goals & body composition. The video is just an example.

    Best viewing is 480p fullscreen


    I feel someone could add to this

    Meal Timing

    The timing of your meals is not necessary. Rather, meeting your caloric and macronutrient goals for the day are far more important. Metabolism is [primarily] regulated by two thyroid hormones – triiodothyronine (T3) & thyroxide (T4) – which up/down-regulate depending on your net calorie intake – not meal frequency. Simply put, your metabolism is faster in a calorie surplus and slower in a calorie deficit.

    More info;
    http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top...-debunked.html
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=123915821
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=132304563
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=131821473
    Last edited by YeomenKek; 07-25-2011 at 05:54 PM.
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  16. #16
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    The World's Healthiest Foods from - http://www.whfoods.com/foodstoc.php

    http://www.whfoods.com/foodstoc.php

    Vegetables

    Asparagus
    Avocados
    Beets
    Bell peppers
    Broccoli
    Brussels sprouts
    Cabbage
    Carrots
    Cauliflower
    Celery
    Collard greens
    Cucumbers
    Eggplant
    Fennel
    Garlic
    Green beans
    Green peas
    Kale
    Leeks
    Mushrooms, crimini
    Mushrooms, shiitake
    Mustard greens
    Olives
    Onions
    Potatoes
    Romaine lettuce
    Sea vegetables
    Spinach
    Squash, summer
    Squash, winter
    Sweet potatoes
    Swiss chard
    Tomatoes
    Turnip greens
    Yams

    Seafood

    Cod
    Halibut
    Salmon
    Sardines
    Scallops
    Shrimp
    Tuna

    Fruits

    Apples
    Apricots
    Bananas
    Blueberries
    Cantaloupe
    Cranberries
    Figs
    Grapefruit
    Grapes
    Kiwifruit
    Lemon/Limes
    Oranges
    Papaya
    Pears
    Pineapple
    Plums
    Prunes
    Raisins
    Raspberries
    Strawberries
    Watermelon

    Eggs & Low-Fat Dairy

    Cheese, low-fat
    Eggs
    Milk, 2%, cow's
    Milk, goat
    Yogurt

    Beans & Legumes

    Black beans
    Dried peas
    Garbanzo beans (chickpeas)
    Kidney beans
    Lentils
    Lima beans
    Miso
    Navy beans
    Pinto beans
    Soybeans
    Tempeh
    Tofu

    Poultry & Lean Meats

    Beef, lean organic
    Calf's liver
    Chicken
    Lamb
    Turkey
    Venison

    Nuts, Seeds & Oils

    Almonds
    Cashews
    Flaxseeds
    Olive oil, extra virgin
    Peanuts
    Pumpkin seeds
    Sesame seeds
    Sunflower seeds
    Walnuts

    Grains

    Barley
    Brown rice
    Buckwheat
    Corn
    Millet
    Oats
    Quinoa
    Rye
    Spelt
    Whole wheat

    Spices & Herbs

    Basil
    Black pepper
    Cayenne pepper
    Chili pepper, dried
    Cilantro/Coriander seeds
    Cinnamon, ground
    Cloves
    Cumin seeds
    Dill
    Ginger
    Mustard seeds
    Oregano
    Parsley
    Peppermint
    Rosemary
    Sage
    Thyme
    Turmeric

    Natural Sweeteners

    Blackstrap molasses
    Cane juice
    Honey
    Maple syrup

    Other

    Green tea
    Soy sauce (tamari)
    Water


    Criteria for The World's Healthiest Foods

    Among the thousands of different foods our world provides, the majority contain at least several of the nutrients our bodies need but to be included as one of the World's Healthiest Foods they had to meet the criteria listed below.

    The criteria we used will also help you understand why some of your favorite (and also nutritious) foods may not be included on our list. For example, Readers have asked why pomegranate, a very nutritious food, is not included on our website. While pomegranates taste great and are rich in vitamins and flavonoid phytonutrients, they are still rather expensive which makes them not as widely available to many people.

    1. The World's Healthiest Foods are the Most Nutrient Dense

    The World's Healthiest Foods have been selected because they are among the richest sources of many of the essential nutrients needed for optimal health. We used a concept called nutrient density to determine which foods have the highest nutritional value.

    Nutrient density is a measure of the amount of nutrients a food contains in comparison to the number of calories. A food is more nutrient dense when the level of nutrients is high in relationship to the number of calories the food contains. By eating the World's Healthiest Foods, you'll get all the essential nutrients that you need for excellent health, including vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients, essential fatty acids, fiber and more for the least number of calories. Read more about Our Food and Recipe Rating System.

    2. The World's Healthiest Foods are Whole Foods

    The World's Healthiest Foods are also whole foods complete with all their rich natural endowment of nutrients. They have not been highly processed nor do they contain synthetic, artificial or irradiated ingredients. And whenever possible, The Healthier Way of Eating recommends purchasing "Organically Grown" foods, since they not only promote your health, but also the health of our planet.

    3. The World's Healthiest Foods are Familiar Foods

    The World's Healthiest Foods are common "everyday" foods. These include the fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts and seeds, lean meats, fish, olive oil, herbs and spices that are familiar to most people.

    4. The World's Healthiest Foods are Readily Available

    Although there are many foods that are exceptionally nutritious, many of them are not readily available in different areas of the country. The World's Healthiest Foods are foods that the majority people can easily find at their local market.

    5. The World's Healthiest Foods are Affordable

    We have selected foods that are not only familiar and available, but also affordable, especially if you purchase them locally and in season. This is also the time when they are the freshest and of the best quality.

    6. The World's Healthiest Foods Taste Good

    The World's Healthiest Foods are also some of the world's best tasting foods. We have created recipes using the World's Healthiest Foods that do not overpower, but enhance, the unique flavor of each food. Each recipe provides a flavor adventure so you can discover new ways to experience and enjoy the great natural tastes of these foods.
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  17. #17
    Registered User jovvie's Avatar
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    As a newbie, I found that the above post by "dat" to be the most helpful. That's the type of information I would want in a sticky to GET STARTED. IN MY OPINION.
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  18. #18
    Registered User tank2049's Avatar
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    ^^ i would have to agree.. special for newbie like myself as well
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    Originally Posted by sawoobley View Post

    Is the sticky outdated or are we oversimplifying it?
    the later
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    Think in terms of progress and the result is progression"

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  20. #20
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    this is amazing thanks all.
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    Thumbs up Found this thread while searching and thought it would be good for here.....

    Originally Posted by xxxgbp View Post
    I found this article online......let me know what you think.....


    4. There’s a one-hour window of opportunity for protein synthesis following a workout.

    You may be wondering: is this a myth because the real window is half an hour? Two or 3 hours? Maybe 6 hours? Sadly, in the past 2 weeks I’ve read different articles, all suggesting that the "window" is one of the above lengths of time.

    It’s not surprising that with this type of inconsistency that this is probably the most pervasive myth in bodybuilding today! Worse yet, it stems directly from the scientific research itself. The most often cited research on the protein synthetic post workout window, used elderly subjects (Esmark et al., 2001) and cardio exercise findings (Levenhagen et al., 2001) to make their predictions. While this is a completely acceptable practice when these are the only data we have to go on, there are a couple noteworthy problems.

    Elderly individuals digest and absorb protein differently than healthy adults. In fact, they digest and absorb whey protein in a similar manner as they do casein (Dangin et al., 2003); in other words they have slow digestion and absorption for whey. Elderly also benefit from having 80% of their daily protein consumed at a single sitting (Arnal et al., 1999), in contrast to the benefits of our multiple feedings.

    Additionally, the traditionally referenced Esmark et al. (2001), study showed that consuming the post workout meal just 2 hours after working out actually prevented any improvements induced by the training! Figure that one out and you get a prize.

    Secondly, with regards to cardio…well, let’s just say that there’s an obvious difference between how our muscles respond to the two forms of exercise. Bear in mind that with regard to carbohydrate metabolism following a workout, there might not be much of a difference—we just don’t know, but certainly the long-term protein metabolism differences can be seen.

    So now what are we supposed to base our nutrition on? Enter the most underrated scientific paper in the last 5 years. Tipton and colleagues (2003) examined responsiveness of protein synthesis for a day after a workout, and found it to reflect a 24 hour enhanced level. That’s right folks, a FULL DAY! This means that having a morning shake will have the same impact on muscle protein synthesis as one consumed following the workout!

    These results shouldn’t be too surprising because we’ve known for over a decade that postworkout protein synthesis is jacked up for this long (MacDougall et al., 1995), but if you’re discovering this for the first time, then it’s pretty exciting!

    Some research suggests that even 48 hours after the workout our protein synthesis levels can be elevated by ~33% (Phillips et al., 1997), giving us an even longer period during which we can maximize our muscle growth with protein drinks.

    Strike one for the one hour post workout window.




    5. Consuming the drink immediately following the workout will elicit the greatest protein synthesis.

    It’s amazing to see how more advanced, and often experienced, people behave in the gym when it comes to getting their post workout meal. Some guys even sit there, right after their last set, and slug back a drink! In fact I’ve even heard "as soon as the weight hits the floor" touted as the war cry for the hardcore. While this is actually a sub-optimal practice for muscle growth and recovery, not to mention borderline obsessive compulsive, it’s good to see their heart is the right place.

    Comparing research that used drinks consumed immediately after a workout (Tipton et al., 2001) versus those ingested an hour after training (Rasmussen et al., 2000), the results are surprising: it seems that post workout meal ingestion actually results in 30% lower protein synthesis rates than when we wait! So every time we thought that we were badass for drinking "as soon as the weight hit the floor, we were actually short changing ourselves. Not a big deal, that’s why we read T-Nation. Let’s just learn, adapt, and move on.

    Strike two for the one hour post workout window.


    6. The best meal to consume following a post workout meal is a good SOLID meal.

    This is where we can start to apply some of the novel information presented above. While we know that our post workout window (is it really even a window any more? 24 hours is more like a giant garage door) lasts for at least 24 hours, we can’t assume that the responses to repeated meals will all be the same.

    This is where research by Borsheim and pals (2002) comes in. This landmark research shows that the best thing to consume after our post workout meal is… another protein shake! In fact, if we time it right, we’ll get the same huge increase in protein synthesis. Talk about a double whammy for our muscle growth! Now considering how crazy people get when it comes to a single post workout meal, imagine how they’ll react when you tell them that they can double that effect!

    Also, for those who have a hard time accepting the reality explained in myth #5, you’ll get an even bigger response from the second drink, compared to what you get from the first.


    7. Insulin sensitivity is enhanced for an hour following a resistance training bout.

    The term insulin sensitivity gets thrown around in the strength-training world, as only the most vague of concepts. From here on, lets universally define it as: the inverse of the quantity of insulin required for an effect of a given magnitude. In other words, high insulin sensitivity requires low levels of insulin to do the job. Make sense? Now that we have a working definition, we need to destroy the myth of the one-hour post workout window once and for all!

    We know that both endurance exercise and strength training will enhance insulin sensitivity in the long term. This is a good thing. Unfortunately, with all of the hype surrounding the post workout window, people have started throwing out numbers related to how long insulin sensitivity is altered. While we know that heavily damaging eccentric exercise will actually reduce insulin sensitivity (Asp et al., 1996), this should be an extreme condition and not our regular response. So if you’ve overdone it a bit, back off and heal up!

    The more common response to strength training is an increase in insulin sensitivity (Fujitani et al., 1998; Miller et al, 1984), and brand new data show even the acute effect from a single bout lasts for over 24 hours (Koopman et al., 2005). So while we’ll have an enhanced whole body insulin sensitivity following resistance training, this effect is even greater for 24 hours following exercise!

    Steeerike THREE for the one hour post workout window!




    8. Whey is a "fast" protein, ideal for post workout.

    Back when it first came out, whey protein was pretty kick ass because it was discovered to be very high quality. Then research came out that made it even more kick ass, because we could classify it as a "fast" digesting protein compared to casein (Boirie et al., 1997).

    You know what? This research stands today, because compared to casein, whey protein really is fast! Then again, a tortoise is also fast compared to a snail, but that doesn’t mean we want to take a tortoise to a greyhound park. In other words, we’ve been considering whey a "fast" protein only because we’ve been comparing it to something incredibly slow. When we compare the digestibility of whey to the gold standard of amino acids, on which we base nearly all of our post workout nutritional data, whey flat out sucks.

    This is incredibly frustrating because all of the ways to maximize protein synthesis we’ve been discussing have used amino acids. So we need to either use pure amino acids or use something that closely resembles their absorptive properties. This is where whey protein hydrolysate comes in. The protein is already broken up into large peptides, so we get a rapid absorption with peak levels reaching the blood at around 80 minutes (Calbet and MacLean, 2002), compared to 60 minutes for pharmaceutical grade amino acids (Borsheim et al., 2002).

    Unfortunately, even the highly touted whey isolate is completely useless for our timing purposes here, because it just takes too long to get taken up by the gut (Dangin et al., 2002). This is all discussed in more detail in the official product review of Surge, complete with graphs of blood amino acid profiles: t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459463

    In light of these data and the growing body of literature contradicting the versatility and usefulness of whey protein, it should henceforth be classified as "moderate" or "intermediate" speed protein, with only whey hydrolysate and amino acids existing as truly "fast."

    It may be difficult to adjust our thinking, but this is simply more dogma that needs to be destroyed in order to bring us up to date with the proper application of research.



    Ten Take Home Points

    —glycogen restoration is all too easy to achieve and may not be as critical as once thought

    —protein synthesis needs to be the focus of our recovery intervention

    —pre-workout meals actually enhance muscle blood flow and nutrient delivery during exercise

    —pre-workout meals, nocturnal feeding, and multiple post workout drinks are more beneficial than a single post workout drink

    —the "post workout window" lasts at least 24 hours

    —consuming a protein shake immediately after training hinders optimal results

    —strength training acutely enhances insulin sensitivity for at least 24 hours

    —whey protein is generally only moderate speed, while whey hydrolysate and pure amino acids are "fast"

    —antioxidants taken after exercise may increase muscle damage and delay recovery

    —aspirin and ibuprofen can prevent the exercise-induced elevation in muscle protein synthesis thus hindering growth and prolonging recovery


    FULL ARTICLE

    t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_nutrition/the_top_10_post_workout_nutrition_myths&cr=
    Found this thread while searching for something else. And read some of it not all. But thought it was pretty interesting from what I read and would be to newbies as well. If irrelevant or not useful I'll delete it.
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  22. #22
    Helpful Member TERMplus's Avatar
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    Cool

    I quoted the parts that may need some updates / fixing:

    Originally Posted by determined4000 View Post
    For example coconut oil is primarily composed of lauric acid and MCTs (good), while beef is composed of stearic (good) and palmilitic (bad) acids.
    Palmitic acid isn't necessarily bad.

    Originally Posted by determined4000 View Post
    In general, saturated fat has been seen to raise LDL and HDL cholesterol, polyunsaturated fat has been seen to lower both, and monounsaturated fats has been shown to raise HDL and lower LDL. Therefore, consuming a sound ratio of the three is important. I would suggest around 50-55% monos, 20-30% polys, around 15-25% saturated.
    Polyunsaturated fat oxidizes with LDL, so you can't really say that it lowers both LDL and HDL as if it's a good thing. (I'm not saying that polyunsaturated fats are bad, though.) I also thought you should mention omega 3 and omega 6 ratios.

    Originally Posted by determined4000 View Post
    III. Carbohydrates
    a. Primary- Fibrous Veggies- broccoli, spinach, cauliflower, greens, asparagus, green beans, peppers
    b. Primary (II)- Low fat dairy, fruit, whole grains (breads, oats, cereals etc.)
    By "cereals," do you mean breakfast cereals? If you do mean breakfast cereals, then the above statement should be removed.


    Originally Posted by determined4000 View Post
    - lower total cholesterol and LDL cholesterol (the Bad cholesterol) therefore reducing the risk of heart disease
    LDL-C isn't necessarily bad either.

    Originally Posted by determined4000 View Post
    Things like HFCS are more likely to be converted to fat than complex carbs that are glucose based because of the differences in how they are digested.
    This is sort of controversial, but you should also mention that HFCS may increase cellular inflammation and unfavorably affect overall health.

    Originally Posted by determined4000 View Post
    If you always go high volume, the stomach will expand, which is why people bulking can be hungrier than when they cut and their stomach shrinks.
    The fascia of the stomach only considerably expands in size under extremely high caloric intakes for prolonged periods of time (competitive eating). If there were a difference in the size of the stomach between 2500 kcals and 3500 kcals, the difference would be negligible at best.

    Originally Posted by determined4000 View Post
    According to studies, oats provide 2x more satiety than most cold cereals and potatoes about 3x (calorie for calorie).
    If you can, try to find the study and link to it in this article.

    Originally Posted by determined4000 View Post
    Despite what your mother always told you, you are not special.
    I'd argue otherwise .

    Originally Posted by determined4000 View Post
    You dont carry the ajority of fat in your abs.
    Fix the spelling error.

    Originally Posted by determined4000 View Post
    You can't lose fat and gain muscle simultaneously.
    Technically, you can lose fat and gain muscle simultaneously...



    You may want to fix the "errors" that I pointed out, just to make sure that the article is as accurate as possible. I really liked the article, and the concepts that you touched upon were very intriguing. Good job, I guess?





    Originally Posted by dat View Post
    Carbohydrates are generally used by your body just for the energy content. But they're tasty and commonly found.
    I guess you may want to fix this, but considering that this is an article for newbies and you did mention "generally used," I guess there's no problem here.

    Originally Posted by dat View Post
    Take a multivitamin. Micronutrients are generally absorbed much better by the body when they have come from a whole food source.
    Even with a "good" diet, it's difficult to hit all your micronutrient goals for the day.



    nice article. very newbie friendly LOL...just thought you might fix some things.
    Last edited by TERMplus; 08-01-2011 at 12:32 AM.
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    Tracking tools

    Great posts!

    I've personally found that accurately tracking what you eat, how you feel, what you weight, etc. is the single most important and difficult aspect of proper nutrition. You have no way of knowing if your diet is working unless you track these things. An accurate log really allows you to dial in your nutrional requirements.

    One tool I've found to be extremely helpful is http://www.fitday.com/. This is a free website that already has a vast library of foods and allows you to track a number of physical performance/health indicators. I find the site to be very intuitive and easy to use.

    To creat an accurate food log, you will need to be able to measure how much food you are eating. A kitchen scale and/or a set of measuring cups is sufficient.

    I know this doesn't deal with the nitty gritty of nutrition itself, but I think this is often overlooked.
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    what about the whole clean food vs dirty food thing. Can I lose weight and gain muscle at the same time by eating anything I want (regardless of how healthy it is) assuming I'm getting enough protein and creating a calorie deficit? I never can find a straight answer for this
    my Spanish name is el mucho ding dong
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    Registered User APGeofrey's Avatar
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    Nice thread, I have bookmarked it and will be reading it page after page till I read it all from start till end. Thanks a lot to the starter of the thread.

    It is one of the best ideas on BB.com I have seen so far.
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    Sweet!
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    Thanks for sharing this to us. Its nice.
    Health is wealth
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    Great write up. Subscribed.
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    Imagine your daily calorie budget is 2,000 calories. Out of these calories, you need to spend at least 1,735 calories on your essential nutrients, if you choose foods without added fat and sugar. That leaves you with 265 discretionary calories, which you may use on some of the indulgent types of food you have been avoiding; think of higher fat meat – lamb, for instance; or sugared cereals, sweets and sauces. The key to successfully using your discretionary calories is to not exceed your allowance, especially by choosing more added fats, sugars, and alcohol than your budget allows.
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    nice thread, bookmarked.
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