fasted cardio? anyone?

[Cytrainer913]

I know Layne has preached about this for some time:

The newest issue of the Strength and Conditioning Journal (Feb/March)Volume 33 number 1 has show this style of cardio to be the wrong way to go about burning extra fat stores along with the other thing most want to maintain their muscle by doing this as well and this practice has shown again to further breakdown the lean muscle in your body.

Overtime, fat burning is not an immediate process, it is one that occurs over the course of days not hours, so as you burn more carbohydrate during your workout, the body will burn more fat post exercise.

The study has also showed that having food(carbohydrate) precardio has been shown to not slow down lipolysis in the individual and in the fasted state even going after the breakdown of more fat, the body will take those excess fats that aren't oxidized and become re-esterfied(be stored back to fat). Also with the consumption of food before training increases the thermic effect of exercise(EPOC will be the highest by having food in your body not in the fasted state), yet another good reason to eat a little something before cardio in the am. This basically means that you are burning more cals while you are standing around after the workout is over.

Another negative factor to training in the fasted state is the impact on proteolysis(breaking down proteins AKA losing muscle), nitrogen losses more than doubled in the fasted state as compared to having glycogen within the body. Another good reason to have a little bit of food when doing cardio, whenever you do it.

the last thing it goes on to say is that in the fasted state, it will cause lower energy levels, thus decreasing the fat burning process. Performance here will suffer, especially when trying to do the far superior style of training, which is HIIT, (HIIT vs LISS), more energy when doing cardio=more cals burned both during and after physical activity, thus more fat burned.

So finally, given that training with depleted glycogen levels has been shown to increase proteolysis, the strategy has potential detrimental effects for those concerned with muscle strength and Hypertrophy.

So eat little meal and use those BCAAS to help retain lean muscle and burn more fat!

What do you think?

[str8flexed]

good find, do you have the abstract for that?

thanks!

[Cape1]

Thats a good article.

I've never seen one damn bit of difference - fat loss wise - between fasted and fed cardio, except for feeling liks complete Ass doing it fasted.

[Cytrainer913]

http://journals.lww.com/nsca-scj/Ful...ize_Fat.3.aspx

[GoVegGo]

Nice post, love that magazine, full of very useful information, love when the science backs what your body tells you!

[Cytrainer913]

Put this on another forum, and a natural one too, which was funny to get such a negative response and got ripped a new one by the old school methods and how they work compared to HIIT and fasted cardio is the ultimate way to lose fat????

I mean we are talking NSCA research here, a top name in the industry, not the Enquirier!

[str8flexed]

somehow, 'i told you so' just doesn't quite say it

LOL

[PHRICK]

wait ok so i have a question then when i do HIIT i sip on bcaas would this help at all with mass breakdown?

[str8flexed]

here's an idea... why don't you just EAT

[PHRICK]

[QUOTE=str8flexed;630188733]here's an idea... why don't you just EAT[/QUOT

Thank you... when i eat is there a calorie i should be keeping it under a small meal? carbs? or just eat as normal??? do i consume it as a preworkout meal with higher carbs lol??? dont hate on me for simply asking if i wouldnt ask if i wasnt determined to do this the right way. I think very highly of you so please dont attack me i dont want to think of you negatively

[Cytrainer913]

small meal or big meal, it all gets tracked right? but something easy to digest and while food would be good, just a good snack I'd say in 200 cals or so will be good.

what are your regular meals around in cals? Make it just slightly smaller.

Little PB and yogurt on a piece of toast?

[str8flexed]

[QUOTE=PHRICK;630190213]

here's an idea... why don't you just EAT[/QUOT

Thank you... when i eat is there a calorie i should be keeping it under a small meal? carbs? or just eat as normal??? do i consume it as a preworkout meal with higher carbs lol??? dont hate on me for simply asking if i wouldnt ask if i wasnt determined to do this the right way. I think very highly of you so please dont attack me i dont want to think of you negatively

lol, how did I attack you? man you guys get so sensitive sometimes.

My point is, as the article showed, eating did not diminish the fat burning effect. It boils down to overall pro/carb/fat intake during the day. If anything HIIT and activity actually makes you able to BETTER tolerate carb intake. So you should be putting more of your daily food intake around cardio, not less. It gets a bit more complicated if you workout with weights on the same day you do HIIT which I don't typically recommend.

Please read the cardio section of my article here http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne36.htm

[PHRICK]

[QUOTE=str8flexed;630195503]

lol, how did I attack you? man you guys get so sensitive sometimes.

My point is, as the article showed, eating did not diminish the fat burning effect. It boils down to overall pro/carb/fat intake during the day. If anything HIIT and activity actually makes you able to BETTER tolerate carb intake. So you should be putting more of your daily food intake around cardio, not less. It gets a bit more complicated if you workout with weights on the same day you do HIIT which I don't typically recommend.

Please read the cardio section of my article here http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/layne36.htm

i do HIIT the same day i do weight lifting. I do HIIT in the early A.M and dont lift weights until about 10pm my typical breakfast would be 1/4cup of steelcut oats with a scoop of whey

[str8flexed]

do you have any off days from training? why not do HIIT on the offdays?

[Cape1]

small meal or big meal, it all gets tracked right? but something easy to digest and while food would be good, just a good snack I'd say in 200 cals or so will be good.

what are your regular meals around in cals? Make it just slightly smaller.

Little PB and yogurt on a piece of toast?

Craig or anyone else who feels like responding,

What do you think of having a Jelly Sandwich? I've been doing this lately before training and cardio and it's great. Gives me a great burst of energy and seems to digest quick too. Two pieces of White Bread and a TBSPN of Grape Jelly. I also sip BCAA (xtend during training - and before /after cardio).

Given the presence of the BCAA's, do you think it is necessary to add pro/fat to this kind of pre-workout meal?

If nothing else, this is actually a nice little treat, esspecially with the bread heated for 20 seconds in the microwave. Seems to improve muscle pumps too, which may just be in my head.

[solid252]

Craig or anyone else who feels like responding,

What do you think of having a Jelly Sandwich? I've been doing this lately before training and cardio and it's great. Gives me a great burst of energy and seems to digest quick too. Two pieces of White Bread and a TBSPN of Grape Jelly. I also sip BCAA (xtend during training - and before /after cardio).

Given the presence of the BCAA's, do you think it is necessary to add pro/fat to this kind of pre-workout meal?

If nothing else, this is actually a nice little treat, esspecially with the bread heated for 20 seconds in the microwave. Seems to improve muscle pumps too, which may just be in my head.

I have recently started working out in the mornings before work, about 5AM. My pre-workout meal has been 1 serving vanilla whey mixed with 1.5 servings pumpkin mixed into a pretty awesome pudding type snack. It's about 24 g protein and 15 g carbs, so far it's given me the energy I needs in the AM to get through great workouts. Afterwards, I will
have 1.5 servings of oats with some eggwhites as a PWO meal/breakfast.

Oh, and Craig, yes it's Greg here... had this user name awhile before i joined liftforlife.

[gekkoboy14]

here's an idea... why don't you just EAT

I seem to respond well to yohimbine,and insulin would negate its effects. How catabolic can it really be performing HIIT for 10 min?

[str8flexed]

I seem to respond well to yohimbine,and insulin would negate its effects. How catabolic can it really be performing HIIT for 10 min?

I've literally argued this til i'm blue in the face, now there is a direct scientific study addressing it and STILL people want to do it. Look if you really want to do it that bad, then it's no skin off my back. But it's just not nessecary

[gekkoboy14]

I've literally argued this til i'm blue in the face, now there is a direct scientific study addressing it and STILL people want to do it. Look if you really want to do it that bad, then it's no skin off my back. But it's just not nessecary

I still havent seen the study

[Cytrainer913]

I still havent seen the study

just look up top of this thread:

http://journals.lww.com/nsca-scj/Ful...ize_Fat.3.aspx

[AustrianOakJr]

What do you think of having a Jelly Sandwich? I've been doing this lately before training and cardio and it's great. Gives me a great burst of energy and seems to digest quick too. Two pieces of White Bread and a TBSPN of Grape Jelly. I also sip BCAA (xtend during training - and before /after cardio).

Given the presence of the BCAA's, do you think it is necessary to add pro/fat to this kind of pre-workout meal?

If you have a good dose of carbs pre-workout and BCAA's during your training, thats plenty of insurance. The carbs are the preferred fuel source but amino acids will always make up a small percentage of energy expenditure. As long as the BCAA's are there as a buffer you are fine. 10g is probably sufficient.

[wnbfwarriorpro]

Craig or anyone else who feels like responding,

What do you think of having a Jelly Sandwich? I've been doing this lately before training and cardio and it's great. Gives me a great burst of energy and seems to digest quick too. Two pieces of White Bread and a TBSPN of Grape Jelly. I also sip BCAA (xtend during training - and before /after cardio).

Given the presence of the BCAA's, do you think it is necessary to add pro/fat to this kind of pre-workout meal?

If nothing else, this is actually a nice little treat, esspecially with the bread heated for 20 seconds in the microwave. Seems to improve muscle pumps too, which may just be in my head.

One of our figure pros uses marshmallow Fluff preworkout and gets great results. As long as the numbers fit, you should be fine.

[Cumulonimbus]

One of our figure pros uses marshmallow Fluff preworkout and gets great results. As long as the numbers fit, you should be fine.

Fluffernutter sandwhich!

[wnbfwarriorpro]

Fluffernutter sandwhich!

Interestingly enough, the old commercial from the 70s featured a kid eating a fluffernutter that resulted with his biceps inflating. Anabolic Fluff!

[AustrianOakJr]

Fluff.....I havent had that since I was a kid! Ive got a fluffernutter craving now. Gonna have to get some.

[Bnizzle163]

Fluff.....I havent had that since I was a kid! Ive got a fluffernutter craving now. Gonna have to get some.

Will you guys stop talking about fluff? I still haven't had breakfast

Back to the original topic... If I were to do HIIT in the morning, I personally would have a healthy dose of carbs. If I'm just doing LISS or MISS, something like 1/4 of oats, or a rice cake with some pb and a couple scoops of BCAA's during cardio seems to do the trick until I get an actual meal in me PWO.

[Cumulonimbus]

Fluff.....I havent had that since I was a kid! Ive got a fluffernutter craving now. Gonna have to get some.

Contest prep = Low carb bread with Walden Farms Marshmallow cream and Walden Farms Chocolate Dip

Offseason = Dempsters Texas Style Thick bread with Marhsmallow Fluff and Nutella



But to stay on topic I treat my HIIT workouts like my resistance training workouts.

[solid252]

Contest prep = Low carb bread with Walden Farms Marshmallow cream and Walden Farms Chocolate Dip

I JUST discovered both of these and bought them last week, LOVE IT! Walden Farms saved my prep with their Pancake Syrup, this is great too. Also, mixing their zero calorie chocolate syrup with my fat free greek yogurt and splenda turns it into a chocolate mousse...so darn good.

[Slovation]

Contest prep = Low carb bread with Walden Farms Marshmallow cream and Walden Farms Chocolate Dip

Offseason = Dempsters Texas Style Thick bread with Marhsmallow Fluff and Nutella



But to stay on topic I treat my HIIT workouts like my resistance training workouts.

Ugh that sounds so bomb right now

[iForce Dave]

i dont think it makes that big a difference, but i prefer cardio in the morning first thing after a cup of coffee. Its nice to get it out of the waybefore work, and i have no problem with energy it helps wake me up.

I have found that I have much more energy throughout the day when I do it first too