Joe Rogan - Robert Oberst

[KidFreeze]

I listened to Rogan's podcast with Robert Oberst, and he said if you don't compete in the deadlift there is absolutely no reason for anyone to do the deadlift. I mean he pulls close to 900lbs and getting injured is easier.

I'm about 2 years new to the deadlift, never did them when younger, just started at 47 years old. The most I ever pulled is 360 which peanuts, but now I'm into reps and stopped worrying about 1 RPM, so the weight is very light. But the question I always have is deadlifting good for hypertrophy? I feel good after a deadlift session because of the intensity but does it really contribute to muscle growth?

[mtpockets]

does it really contribute to muscle growth?

Yes

[LWW]

I listened to Rogan's podcast with Robert Oberst, and he said if you don't compete in the deadlift there is absolutely no reason for anyone to do the deadlift. I mean he pulls close to 900lbs and getting injured is easier.

I'm about 2 years new to the deadlift, never did them when younger, just started at 47 years old. The most I ever pulled is 360 which peanuts, but now I'm into reps and stopped worrying about 1 RPM, so the weight is very light. But the question I always have is deadlifting good for hypertrophy? I feel good after a deadlift session because of the intensity but does it really contribute to muscle growth?

What that dude said on Rogan's Podcast is not very accurate., then he said that when training for football they did powercleans and hangcleans, WTF, this generation is very stupid........first powercleans and hangcleans are very technical, it's a waste of phucking time for football.

Football players should be "strong" to protect themselves from injury and play the game better, they should not be deadlifting 1-rep max's at all, however light weight higher reps is the way to go. Powercleans will get players injured.......and most of 'em are getting injured.

........he talked about smoking pot too to ease his pain, first of all, all his buddies where pretty weak for taking muscle relaxers from heavy training, they need to learn how to love the pain......that's what I do, I love and listen to my pain, not phucking hide it.

.....if they can't take the phucking pain, they should do something else.

[ChazWood]

Incredibly wrong.

Do u even teeth lift, bro?

[tblodg15]

Incredibly wrong.

Agreed, I have a son in high school football right now and the hang clean is great for building explosive power.

Now I personally would have no reason to do them the same as most adults outside of sports or competitive weight lifting.

[Jtbny]

Incredibly wrong.

This! Explosive strength way more important than brute strength.

[LWW]

Well, there are better ways to build explosive power, squats are one, lighter weight and more reps are great for a combat sport like Football.

If a player is real good at powercleans and hangs then it's not so stupid, maybe still a waste of time because I think higher squats just do more things, more effectively........but to incorporate as a cookie cutter part of a program? and who is teaching them, an O'lifter or just the Football S&C coach?

.....I've seen these college vids of the players doing 'em heavy and they are ugly.......too risky........would not do it on my watch, but I'm not responsible, so who cares?

As a regular Joe.........I'm not a regular Joe btw, the deadlift and squat are nothing what that fella stated, I'd recommend them light for high reps and slowly work-up for anyone (even seniors)........no problems with Powercleans, I powerclean, but I ain't forcing young kids or seniors to do them with anything more than a bar, if they want to progress that's on them.

[Jtbny]

Well, there are better ways to build explosive power, squats are one, lighter weight and more reps are great for a combat sport like Football.

If a player is real good at powercleans and hangs then it's not so stupid, maybe still a waste of time because I think higher squats just do more things, more effectively........but to incorporate as a cookie cutter part of a program? and who is teaching them, an O'lifter or just the Football S&C coach?

.....I've seen these college vids of the players doing 'em heavy and they are ugly.......too risky........would not do it on my watch, but I'm not responsible, so who cares?

As a regular Joe.........I'm not a regular Joe btw, the deadlift and squat are nothing what that fella stated, I'd recommend them light for high reps and slowly work-up for anyone (even seniors)........no problems with Powercleans, I powerclean, but I ain't forcing young kids or seniors to do them with anything more than a bar, if they want to progress that's on them.

Are you a strength and conditioning coach for any team? No?

There is more to lifting than squats and deadlifts. Both are great for building strength but both lack any real specific athletic carryover besides strength.

[Cantplankwell]

What that dude said on Rogan's Podcast is not very accurate., then he said that when training for football they did powercleans and hangcleans, WTF, this generation is very stupid........first powercleans and hangcleans are very technical, it's a waste of phucking time for football.

Football players should be "strong" to protect themselves from injury and play the game better, they should not be deadlifting 1-rep max's at all, however light weight higher reps is the way to go. Powercleans will get players injured.......and most of 'em are getting injured.

........he talked about smoking pot too to ease his pain, first of all, all his buddies where pretty weak for taking muscle relaxers from heavy training, they need to learn how to love the pain......that's what I do, I love and listen to my pain, not phucking hide it.

.....if they can't take the phucking pain, they should do something else.

Power cleans and snatches are recommended a lot in training in for many collision/explosive power sports. If you do them it conditions your body to "brace" and hold/arrest in different changing positions, it also provides full body awareness and coordination under shifting loads...aside from explosive force/power and all of the other stuff. I have never played football, but as hockey player I think it has helped me tremendously in staying on my feet in such a fracas sport, I could see in football how such training would even be more important.

[LWW]

Are you a strength and conditioning coach for any team? No?

There is more to lifting than squats and deadlifts. Both are great for building strength but both lack any real specific athletic carryover besides strength.

Don't matter if I am because I've been around enough of them, I don't you guys see the point, the point is safety vs risk to somehow be more explosive.

Throwers use them and thats fine because they are not in combat.........put the forces that are happening because of cleans and ONG SNATCHES......really???? how long will it take a ball player to safely master that one?

.....NO, I ain't saying they don't product explosivness, but they are truely not proven to be superior, and we are also talking about physical combat..........those forces + hits = high injury risk.

I don't need to be a coach to figure that one out, I have 20years of real world experience.

but, a player should always "learn" to train themselves.

Stick to tire flip, or sandbags, it's more "natural" and fits more to combat conditioning.

[LWW]

Power cleans and snatches are recommended a lot in training in for many collision/explosive power sports. If you do them it conditions your body to "brace" and hold/arrest in different changing positions, it also provides full body awareness and coordination under shifting loads...aside from explosive force/power and all of the other stuff. I have never played football, but as hockey player I think it has helped me tremendously in staying on my feet in such a fracas sport, I could see in football how such training would even be more important.

I'm not saying none of that isn't true, but it's not the only way.

Those lifts are great for "throwers" one of my favorite throwers does jerks behind the neck.......I did them for many years.....one day I lost focus and phucked-up my shoulder........5-months I couldn't throw ANYTHING.......image if I needed to play ball, 5 months out, plus possible re-injuries.

......some folks though are superior athletes no matter where you put 'em, add O'lifts and yes, they get better.....does not mean they should ever be "cookie cutter".

I'm we'll have to agree to disagree, cause very few will see my logic.

[LWW]

All right gentlemen, check this out https://youtu.be/y_nLQydsRrU

All I had to do was watch the first few minutes......if I don't agree with everyhting Eric does, I respect his knowledge!

I just accidentally stumped on this, GREAT Advice from him!!!

[Jtbny]

Don't matter if I am because I've been around enough of them, I don't you guys see the point, the point is safety vs risk to somehow be more explosive.

There is risk to powerlifting and strongman moves too. I'd agree its probably greater with Oly lifts but IDK for sure.

Throwers use them and thats fine because they are not in combat.........put the forces that are happening because of cleans and ONG SNATCHES......really???? how long will it take a ball player to safely master that one?

I'd agree it will take longer to learn these but, my argument is, the time (risk/reward) has greater carryover to athletics that involve being explosive.

.....NO, I ain't saying they don't product explosivness, but they are truely not proven to be superior, and we are also talking about physical combat..........those forces + hits = high injury risk.

I think they have been shown to have better carryover than just doing squats and deads. The proof is every SACC adds them to their programming.

I don't need to be a coach to figure that one out, I have 20years of real world experience.

but, a player should always "learn" to train themselves.

Stop, please. You act like you're the only one here with any experience and use that as your justification. If you don't agree that's cool but don't patronize others with the "I have 20 years blah blah". Many here have that, or more, and have trained with high level individuals.

Stick to tire flip, or sandbags, it's more "natural" and fits more to combat conditioning.

Not sure why you even said this. Who even made an argument about combat sports? FWIW, strongman stuff has a good carryover (for me at least) doing BJJ. Being strong in general helps but farmers, yoke, front carries fit in nicely. I've altered my training away from strictly powerlifting/bodybuilding adding in more strongman for the carryover.

[anonymous]

Imo they're a chitty hypertrophy excercise, but done for higher reps with perfect form as a SLDL or RDL they are fine imo.

As you can see, everyone has a different opinion. Personally I wish I'd never pulled more than 405 in my life, but there you have it.

[Karl_Hungus]

As you can see, everyone has a different opinion. Personally I wish I'd never pulled more than 405 in my life, but there you have it.

I haven't done conventional deads in a long time. I've probably got the worst anthropometric proportions imagineable for conventional deads - a long body and T-rex arms. Back pain and a numb left foot have decided that RDL's (a longtime staple) are also out for the forseeable future. I recently started doing trapbar deads to fullfill the psychological need to lift something heavy off of the ground, but I still leave some in the tank to avoid pissing off my back.

It sucks because I've never had to modify my training due to injuries until the last couple of years. Now, it seems like I just have one injury after another. I've read about your injuries, and mine are nothing compared to yours, but I can definitely see where Oberst is coming from.

[Mark1T]

Not against anyone doing deads, but I stopped some years ago and I only do rack pulls with the bar a couple inches below my knees. I do them on back days as the last exercise and not that heavy but for 6 to 8 reps for 4 sets. Self preservation with the benefits.

[LWW]

[QUOTE=Jtbny;1583787971 The proof is every SACC adds them to their programming.



Stop, please. You act like you're the only one here with any experience and use that as your justification. If you don't agree that's cool but don't patronize others with the "I have 20 years blah blah". Many here have that, or more, and have trained with high level individuals.



Not sure why you even said this. Who even made an argument about combat sports? FWIW, strongman stuff has a good carryover (for me at least) doing BJJ. Being strong in general helps but farmers, yoke, front carries fit in nicely. I've altered my training away from strictly powerlifting/bodybuilding adding in more strongman for the carryover.[/QUOTE]


That's not proof, most athlete strength programs are actually $hit, seriously.

Many coaches have little to no weight training background, they are "cookie cutters".......latest trends, etc.

https://youtu.be/y_nLQydsRrU This guy read my mind......at the end he says clean sandbags, kettlebells etc. more natural, barbells are NOT natural movements in relation to physics etc.

Combat sports is close to being Football, contact sport etc. people are grabbing and throwing you, trying to hurt people really.
We are talking about explosive movements, tire flips and sandbag cleans are better picks than yoke and farmers, yoke and farmers are good for conditioning, but a yoke can get one hurt real quick, better off doing light squats to that person's natural and safe depth, no need to be critical about ATG EVERY rep, every set, but it's good to get that flexibility.

[Winston84]

To be honest I feel a lot better since I stopped doing them and replaced them with rack pulls. I just seem to respond better with higher intensity and lower volume, so can only train every other day. Its still a go to though if I have taken time off, but rack pulls just seem to hit the spots I want to hit a bit better.

[ChazWood]

Some good insight and perspective.

[LWW]

Imo they're a chitty hypertrophy excercise, but done for higher reps with perfect form as a SLDL or RDL they are fine imo.

As you can see, everyone has a different opinion. Personally I wish I'd never pulled more than 405 in my life, but there you have it.

.....and most people can get the results they need in sports by not even going that heavy. For other strength athletes as the body matures and the tendons and ligaments become stronger than that 405, they can then go heavy......and being drug-free is key, throw drugs in the mix (don't care what kind) and this theory is dead, my friend.....DEAD!

For that Strongman fella............ you don't need to be a "great" deadlifter to enhance your sport, you just need to properly utilize it, Kaz was a GREAT deadlifter and apparently he tried out for College Football, I heard (form a good football source) he was one the worst players, he never made it in Football, or wrestling, many other player's deadlifted much lighter weights than KAZ and where way better Athletes.

[induced_drag]

What he is saying is 'risk to reward' is terrible. BUT what is missing, is taught properly and done with good form and discipline, I think it is as safe (or actually safer) than many other exercises.

Dont blame the exercise for people who perform it improperly. I am of the opinion that the deadlift is responsible for more of my growth, density and overall ability to generate power than any other exercise.

But, it took takes the most discipline, and took the most amount of work to understand.

Dont do an exercise because it is hard to do properly, is not a very valid point in my opinion. It is people ego that get them in trouble. Saying hang cleans and power cleans are safer than deads I feel is invalid. The fact is very few people except oly lifters are doing 1rm or 2rm on those explosive movements. If you kept deads in the same range rep wise, they would be just as 'safe'.

I advise people dont even ever do singles on deads. Dont even try to pick up a bar you cant rep 3 times. In the first year, never do a weight you cant get for 5-6.

I have never injured myself on a deadlift. I HAVE injured myself with hang cleans though! Bad shoulder

[LWW]

I advise people dont even ever do singles on deads.

I really hope you mean "max effort"?

Singles don't necessarily mean training 1-rep max.

This all comes down to percentages of a max effort. Of course one must first find their max effort which can be done by doing a set of 10 or 15 max effort which is safer and calculating their max effort.

And I'll also repeat that Athletes should always learn how to train themselves, no coach actually knows what lifter is feeling like, only the trainee can decide how much of a percentage they should be training singles as they become seasoned......beginners on the other hand could most likely use smart coaching in that regard.

I know more about lifting than I even know about my major in college or my occupation, even the occupation I had for 21 years!

[KidFreeze]

What he is saying is 'risk to reward' is terrible. BUT what is missing, is taught properly and done with good form and discipline, I think it is as safe (or actually safer) than many other exercises.

Dont blame the exercise for people who perform it improperly. I am of the opinion that the deadlift is responsible for more of my growth, density and overall ability to generate power than any other exercise.

But, it took takes the most discipline, and took the most amount of work to understand.

Dont do an exercise because it is hard to do properly, is not a very valid point in my opinion. It is people ego that get them in trouble. Saying hang cleans and power cleans are safer than deads I feel is invalid. The fact is very few people except oly lifters are doing 1rm or 2rm on those explosive movements. If you kept deads in the same range rep wise, they would be just as 'safe'.

I advise people dont even ever do singles on deads. Dont even try to pick up a bar you cant rep 3 times. In the first year, never do a weight you cant get for 5-6.

I have never injured myself on a deadlift. I HAVE injured myself with hang cleans though! Bad shoulder

Well said! Just one of many reasons I like the deadlift is because the effort and time it takes to perfect the movement and do it correctly.

[Gabbar99]

Does anyone know if it's true that football players don't do deadlifts?

Basketball? The few clips I've seen of NBA training, they do some light RDLs and some heavier trap-bar deadlifts and some really heavy hip thrusts, but I don't recall seeing heavy deadlifts. Which doesn't prove they don't do them.

My son was a D1 All-American in the decathlon and his coach was an Olympic coach. I think they did some deadlifts, but the fundamental lift was cleans. Years ago I saw a video of a Trey Hardee weight session and his fundamental lift was also cleans.

My son is a coach now. One of his athletes challenged him to a clean battle even though he hadn't lifted much in a few years:

(he's the taller guy)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7GIFH7rOmo&fbclid=

(wouldn't embed for some reason)

[Jtbny]

Does anyone know if it's true that football players don't do deadlifts?

Basketball? The few clips I've seen of NBA training, they do some light RDLs and some heavier trap-bar deadlifts and some really heavy hip thrusts, but I don't recall seeing heavy deadlifts. Which doesn't prove they don't do them.

My son was a D1 All-American in the decathlon and his coach was an Olympic coach. I think they did some deadlifts, but the fundamental lift was cleans. Years ago I saw a video of a Trey Hardee weight session and his fundamental lift was also cleans.

My son is a coach now. One of his athletes challenged him to a clean battle even though he hadn't lifted much in a few years:

(he's the taller guy)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7GIFH7rOmo&fbclid=

(wouldn't embed for some reason)

I do BJJ w/ one of the Syracuse U football coaches. I'll try to remember to ask him if they deadlift or not.

[bustasinclair]

I know more about lifting than I even know about my major in college or my occupation, even the occupation I had for 21 years!

Dude....seriously, the hubris you put on display on this forum is downright nauseating.

[anonymous]

Of course one must first find their max effort which can be done by doing a set of 10 or 15 max effort which is safer and calculating their max effort.

That's not really how you find your 1RM, you can barely extrapolate from a 3rm some days

most people can't keep safe DL form for moderate rep sets so a 15 rep set is going to look horrible for the last part

[RedSox1990]

Lets talk about Robert a bit.

- He barely knew the difference between supinated, neutral and pronated grip.
- He said Olympic Lifting is good for athletes but not deadlifts, meanwhile the oly lifts basically start in a deadlift position. Most of the research indicates oly lifting has about the same injury rate as powerlifting. Strongman has a far higher rate of injury than both(maybe because their deadlift form is usually terrible?)
- Hes just naturally strong as fck and a hard worker hence why he is good at his sport. I don't really trust his knowledge or expertise on these topics.

-Chris Duffin>Oberst

[anonymous]

Strongman form is indeed hideous, but you need tendons like shipping cables and a giant gorilla frame to succeed in that sport so anyone reaching the top level is going to have to be robust enough to survive years of hitching massive weights and decades of rounded back lifting. I trained with a top level Canada strongman for a while and while I could keep up in some gym lifts his raw farmboy strength was insane, they have insanely powerful backs and can lift things off kilter - with brute strength not years of learned technique

This thread motivated me to deadlift for the first time in forever, 405 x 8 stiff leg with slow negatives off the floor, after 10 sets of pendlay rows.

My back feels surprising not bad, maybe theres something to this lift after all

[Mark1T]

Strongman form is indeed hideous, but you need tendons like shipping cables and a giant gorilla frame to succeed in that sport so anyone reaching the top level is going to have to be robust enough to survive years of hitching massive weights and decades of rounded back lifting. I trained with a top level Canada strongman for a while and while I could keep up in some gym lifts his raw farmboy strength was insane, they have insanely powerful backs and can lift things off kilter - with brute strength not years of learned technique

This thread motivated me to deadlift for the first time in forever, 405 x 8 stiff leg with slow negatives off the floor, after 10 sets of pendlay rows.

My back feels surprising not bad, maybe theres something to this lift after all

I already repped you today, so consider yourself paid in full for now