Are deadlifts and squats worth the risk for my goals?

[Tobbe123]

Are squats and deadlifts worth the risk for my goals?

My goal is to get a better posture, build mass, build muscle and get bigger. No risky PRs or powerlifing. Of course I will get stronger though. But are deadlifts and squats worth the risk? Can't you get the same gains with leg press and so on? I have heard that many ruin their lower backs for their life like the hodgetwins. Bulged disks followed by atrophy in legs and more. Are squats and deadlifts dangerous even with good form? Will it **** up your back at the end? Why are they worth the risk when there are other exercises?

[WolfRose7]

deadlifts fixed my long term back pain.... ( I'm not saying they will fix proper issues, but the fixed my inconsistent, minor old injury. That nonetheless was annoying and painful more frequently than desired)

How risky they are depends on the effort you put into proper technique, and not pushing through bad form, or to far with injuries or on days you simply aren't getting the form.

Crossing the road can get you killed...

[KyleAaron]

Do not use the Hodge twins as an example of anything but relentless self-promotion without substance.

Do it badly and you hurt yourself. Do it properly and you'll be fine.

Do it properly. This will require coaching.

https://startingstrength.org/site/coaches

[davisj3537]

I knew a guy once that listened to the Hodgetwins. Saw him the other day and he had herpes. You do the math bro.

[pogioli4]

doing any lift wrong can get you injured. just learn to do them properly. if anything you're only gonna help yourself more by using free weights (properly) in the long run.

I knew a guy once that listened to the Hodgetwins. Saw him the other day and he had herpes. You do the math bro.

lmao

[Rabbitjb]

I knew a guy once that listened to the Hodgetwins. Saw him the other day and he had herpes. You do the math bro.

Chuckle

OP Take squats for example vs leg press

Squats are compound they engage the entire body so are far more effective

Leg press just involves glutes down..no stabiliser muscles, no abs etc (for me my leg press is easily double my squat but I'm not a powerlifter, I just lift stuff cos I like it)

You can push far more on a leg press than a squat simply because it only relies on the larger muscles

Compound exercises with great form ..which takes a long while to learn and perfect whatever you think..will improve your posture and ease back problems by their very nature

[Corbachev]

I have been doing squats and deads for 4 weeks and my posture has already improved my posture. Leg press wont help that much compared to those two, it also will not build those important stabiliser muscles e.g. abductors. Consider that the part of deads where you drive with your legs is a reverse leg press anyway.

As for the risk just use proper form. That means use a weight that you can actually lift paying particular attention to your back. When it comes to deadlifts you should be able to lift more with a rounded back and your legs will often be able to handle greater weight than a straight back.

[TLTrooper]

Started doing SLDL's and my posture has improved 100%.

I've gone from "you ok?" (slouching over implies sadness) to "he always poking his chest out". Wearing a belt while doing em also mentally kept me maintaining posture.

[Luca2]

I think another point to keep in mind is how you approach to these lifts. Forget about lifting to failure, and add weight only when you can do so while maintaining near-perfect form. You can use drop sets, intensity techniques and burn-out sets on preacher curls, not on squats and deadlifts. Never push past technical failure, and you'll be fine.

If you can afford it, do get online coaching from SS - they are quite the Big 3 purists, but certainly know their stuff. Otherwise, you are welcome to post form videos here and regular posters will be happy to advise you.

To echo what WolfRose said, deadlifts have helped me overcome lower back issues. The leg press, by contrast, can be a lower back death trap.

[Rabbitjb]

Started doing SLDL's and my posture has improved 100%.

I've gone from "you ok?" (slouching over implies sadness) to "he always poking his chest out". Wearing a belt while doing em also mentally kept me maintaining posture.

You only use a belt when going really heavy, You should build those stabilisers when doing working sets and compounds will be less effective in doing that if consistently belted

[WolfRose7]

You only use a belt when going really heavy, You should build those stabilisers when doing working sets and compounds will be less effective in doing that if consistently belted

Where do you get this from out of curiosity?

Most the date I've seen in regards to belts overall indicates more core activation wearing one than not..
I've not seen any that resulted in less muscle activation anywhere

[ironwill2008]

Are squats and deadlifts worth the risk for my goals?

My goal is to get a better posture, build mass, build muscle and get bigger. No risky PRs or powerlifing. Of course I will get stronger though. But are deadlifts and squats worth the risk? Can't you get the same gains with leg press and so on? I have heard that many ruin their lower backs for their life like the hodgetwins. Bulged disks followed by atrophy in legs and more. Are squats and deadlifts dangerous even with good form? Will it **** up your back at the end? Why are they worth the risk when there are other exercises?

LMAO @ hodgetwins nonsense. I had thought that their 15 minutes had already passed long ago.

[Rabbitjb]

Where do you get this from out of curiosity?

Most the date I've seen in regards to belts overall indicates more core activation wearing one than not..
I've not seen any that resulted in less muscle activation anywhere

It adds support by giving you something to brace against hence makes the lift marginally easier ..if you're not going all out then why belt?

[wsteve30]

If you have bad posture I would seriously suggest correcting it before doing Deads/Squats.

Coming from a guy with bad posture (and also genetically disposed to being inflexible). Years ago I ****ed up my back in two places doing Deads. You guessed it, rounded my back too much due to kyphosis. I resolved to do Squats below parallel a few months ago, what a big mistake that was. No matter how dedicated to form I was, no matter how many stances I tried, no matter how much stretching I did, I still ended up ****ing up my hip and my knees due to buttwink (again, thanks to my bad posture and also muscle tightness).

I would steer clear of them and stick to the other compound lower body movements like Leg Press, Hip Thrusts, and Lunges until you fix your posture.

Deads/Squats are indeed dangerous, you need to be flexible and your posture needs to be sound before even attempting these.

[JaymzJ]

Do not use the Hodge twins as an example of anything but relentless self-promotion without substance.

Do it badly and you hurt yourself. Do it properly and you'll be fine.

Do it properly. This will require coaching.

https://startingstrength.org/site/coaches

That's true, they do a fine job of promoting themselves and I agree that deads/squats can be safe done properly, anytime I have ever gotten hurt from doing those was from either ego lifting or testing my 1 rep max.

I knew a guy once that listened to the Hodgetwins. Saw him the other day and he had herpes. You do the math bro.

Lmao, yeah but they are funny af. I think their advice is decent for the most part, I don't agree with everything they say.

[davisj3537]

It adds support by giving you something to brace against hence makes the lift marginally easier ..if you're not going all out then why belt?

Research indicates that when used correctly the act of bracing against it incorporates slightly more muscles than not; partially through proprioception feedback and other stuff that I'm not as well read up on I'd like to be.

[supramax]

Are squats and deadlifts worth the risk for my goals?

My goal is to get a better posture, build mass, build muscle and get bigger. No risky PRs or powerlifing. Of course I will get stronger though. But are deadlifts and squats worth the risk? Can't you get the same gains with leg press and so on? I have heard that many ruin their lower backs for their life like the hodgetwins. Bulged disks followed by atrophy in legs and more. Are squats and deadlifts dangerous even with good form? Will it **** up your back at the end? Why are they worth the risk when there are other exercises?

Squatting and deadlifting are natural movements. Just observe very young children and you'll see them squatting and deadlifting with perfect form.

[Rabbitjb]

Research indicates that when used correctly the act of bracing against it incorporates slightly more muscles than not; partially through proprioception feedback and other stuff that I'm not as well read up on I'd like to be.

TBH I've never actually read up on this as I never belt, so willing to be swayed by research if you'd care to post links.

I'd imagine this may be more relevant for intermediate to advanced lifters, but for beginners I would still suppose that consistent belting is counter productive to developing the necessary stabilisers and core muscles.

[MyEgoProblem]

I knew a guy once that listened to the Hodgetwins. Saw him the other day and he had herpes. You do the math bro.

☺️ oh ffs man.. Spat my monster out.

[RK42]

TBH I've never actually read up on this as I never belt, so willing to be swayed by research if you'd care to post links.

These are a couple of articles by Greg Nuckols, who is a popular scientific source for a lot of people here, about the topic:

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/sh...tudy-write-up/
https://www.strongerbyscience.com/the-belt-bible/

[davisj3537]

TBH I've never actually read up on this as I never belt, so willing to be swayed by research if you'd care to post links.

I'd imagine this may be more relevant for intermediate to advanced lifters, but for beginners I would still suppose that consistent belting is counter productive to developing the necessary stabilisers and core muscles.

For sure the more experienced with a belt you are the better it works, but there isn't anything about a belt that limits core activation; it only increases core activation as you increase your proficiency with a belt since it doesn't turn off any core muscles. As you press into the belt you're able to get tighter and force activation you couldn't feel before.

I'm not saying everyone should use a belt by any means. To each their own. I could well be butchering it. Nucks is a smart dude and probably said it much more eloquently.

These are a couple of articles by Greg Nuckols, who is a popular scientific source for a lot of people here, about the topic:

https://www.strongerbyscience.com/sh...tudy-write-up/
https://www.strongerbyscience.com/the-belt-bible/

Nice. There was another dude that did a good write up on it, but his name is escaping me now. If I remember I'll post it.

[Rabbitjb]

I've always liked Greg, interesting read..thanks for links

[davisj3537]

Here is another https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/02d...315bdc46f7.pdf

I have not read this as I'm short on time, but Layne Norton has quoted it claiming it as a source for this topic. I skimmed it, but didn't find the reference.

[KyleAaron]

No matter how dedicated to form I was, no matter how many stances I tried, no matter how much stretching I did, I still ended up ****ing up my hip and my knees due to buttwink (again, thanks to my bad posture and also muscle tightness).

"No matter how much I avoided getting coaching..."

This is so, so male. For my gym, I only get enquiries from males through my website - the women are referrals from current or former members. The males, half of them ask for form coaching, "just for a bit", and the other half say, "I tried it on my own, got hurt, so now I need coaching." None of them have squatted more than 100kg or so, which is to say: they're novices. Novices don't know how to do things - no shame in that, we get instruction for driving, for our jobs, some of us even read the instructions to put Ikea furniture together. Nobody is born knowing how to do this sht.

"No, no, I was doing it right. It's not me, it's the exercise." No, it was you. Get coaching, and never offer your advice on this topic again unless you do.

Deads/Squats are indeed dangerous, you need to be flexible and your posture needs to be sound before even attempting these.

No. You just need to do them properly. If you find this difficult, get coaching.

[davisj3537]

^^^On that topic I just reread steve's post and cannot condone blaming a screwed up back on weightlifting induced kyphosis. That's just blaming bad form on a postural issue that is only present during a relaxed state. When you don't set your spine correctly you're going to get hurt doing anything heavy. That's kind of weightlifting 101.

[oldballs]

I see no reason for the recreational bodybuilder to do conventional deadlifts, unless your goal is to get better at deadlifts. Not a popular opinion for the hardcore keyboard weekend lifters looking for that huge test release.

If you're trying to work your back, there are more effective exercises than that. If your trying to work your legs, same deal. I think there is definitely some risk in deadlifting, just check out the daily videos of people who have no clue they have terrible form.

For legs; squats, RDL, leg press, leg curls, lunge.

For back; pull ups, rows, rack pulls.

Your call though, OP usually has his mind made up before he starts a thread.

[wsteve30]

"No matter how much I avoided getting coaching..."

This is so, so male. For my gym, I only get enquiries from males through my website - the women are referrals from current or former members. The males, half of them ask for form coaching, "just for a bit", and the other half say, "I tried it on my own, got hurt, so now I need coaching." None of them have squatted more than 100kg or so, which is to say: they're novices. Novices don't know how to do things - no shame in that, we get instruction for driving, for our jobs, some of us even read the instructions to put Ikea furniture together. Nobody is born knowing how to do this sht.

"No, no, I was doing it right. It's not me, it's the exercise." No, it was you. Get coaching, and never offer your advice on this topic again unless you do.


No. You just need to do them properly. If you find this difficult, get coaching.

I take it you're someone who is flexible with perfect posture. Trust me, you can't do them properly if you aren't these. I tried. And yes I got coaching from my chiro, who has impeccable posture and is a bodybuilder. You know what he ended up saying? Stop doing Deads/Squats until you improve your posture and flexibility. On top of countless research and trying different things. Your body just won't let you do it correctly.

And thanks for negging me for simply giving my opinion (that you didn't like obviously).

It's not just about form, it's form and physique. Proper form can CAUSE injury if your physique is not suited to it.

[wsteve30]

^^^On that topic I just reread steve's post and cannot condone blaming a screwed up back on weightlifting induced kyphosis. That's just blaming bad form on a postural issue that is only present during a relaxed state. When you don't set your spine correctly you're going to get hurt doing anything heavy. That's kind of weightlifting 101.

You can't necessarily set your spine correctly if your spine is curved to begin with. You can fight it but this doesn't mean you can flatten the curve. And when you're fighting so hard to get your back aligned you may be neglecting other parts of the exercise. You may get by but it's dangerous to do so, that's all I'm saying.

Everyone here probably isn't 6' or taller and didn't sit slouched over a computer for years and years I take it...

[KyleAaron]

I take it you're someone who is flexible with perfect posture.

"Posture" is just muscle imbalances. Now, there exist one-legged and one-armed people who do powerlifting competitions. Can you get any more imbalanced than having a limb entirely absent? How are they to correct this imbalance? Are they not permitted to lift until they magically grow the limb back? No, that would be absurd.

So, if a person with a missing limb can ignore the grossest imbalance possible and lift, then a person with shtty posture can lift.

And yes I got coaching from my chiro, who has impeccable posture and is a bodybuilder.

To clarify: qualified coaching. A chiropractor is not a barbell coach. I don't pretend I know how to adjust people's spines, he shouldn't pretend he knows how to coach a barbell lift.

I don't care whether he's a bodybuilder or a world-record holding lifter - just because you can perform a movement doesn't mean you can teach the movement. I drive a car every day, but there's no way in hell I could teach someone to drive. I read books every day, but I'm not an english teacher. Just because he lifts doesn't mean he knows how to teach you to lift.

Your chiro is by no means unique in confusing his inability to teach a lift with the person's inability to perform it. It's much better for my ego to say, "you can't do it" than "I can't teach it."

And thanks for negging me for simply giving my opinion (that you didn't like obviously).

It's because your opinion is entirely wrong, and is bad, bad advice.

Competent coaching doesn't allow you to wuss out, but doesn't hurt you. I become angry when seeing advice which would let people wuss out, or would hurt them. Letting them wuss out is, eventually, hurting them. This is not just about teh sixpact, bro. This is your life. Past 50 years old, if a person has a fall they actually have a 12 month mortality higher than cancer. Because most people are weak, with weak bones. And type II diabetes and arthritis and so on are also associated with inactivity.

So by encouraging people to avoid doing the most productive movements possible in the gym, you are encouraging them to become weak, overweight, sick and helpless. You have no idea how to perform or coach these movements. You have no idea of the positive impact they have on people - we have quite literally taken people off walking frames. You and your ill-informed pseudomedical friend are doing your best to undermine this productive work.

Be glad it's just a neg, if it were my forum, I'd fcking ban you.

[health4life24]

Why would you avoid trying to PR just because you are building muscle? If you are using good form and know what you're doing then you likely don't have anything to worry about. It's when you start trying to lift weight you know you can't handle with poor form or increase too fast that you could risk injuring yourself.