westside but specialize for ohp and deadlift?

[43Steelers]

how would you guys go about it? Im not a powerlifter, I dont compete. and I really dont care about my squat and bench. I wanna improve my ohp & deadlift. I was thinking about doing something like this...

ME upper
ohp variation ME 1-3
ohp acess. 3x5
upper back work 3x5
rear delt work
neck & grip work
heavy gpp

DE lower
deads variation DE 10x3
deads access. 5x10
single leg work
low back and abs work
light gpp

volume upper
ohp variation 5x10
ohp acess. rep method
tricep work rep method
upper back work rep method
rear delt work rep method
neck & grip work
light gpp

ME lower
deads variation ME 1-3
deads acess. 3x5
single leg work
low back & abs work
heavy gpp

how that looks? any advice?

thanks in advance

[jonglo]

FYI westside is not a particularly good program for natural, raw lifters.

[43Steelers]

I had great result with WS4SB in the past. conjugate periodization works for raw lifters its just the exercise selection that needs to be more specific for raw lifting thats all.

[kennycroxdale]

FYI westside is not a particularly good program for natural, raw lifters.

Westside WORKS for Raw Lifters

...as 43Steelers stated.

Conjugate Training

This is defined as combining two or more different types of strength training in the same program.

This is what Westside Training does. It combines Limit Strength (1 Repetition Max), Power (aka Speed Training), and Hyhpertrophy (Bodybuilding) during a training cycle.

The foundation of the Westside Training Method is build on the method employed by Olympic Lifters, the "Poster Children" for Conjugate Training.

Olympic Lifter the highest Power Output measured, over 52 watts per kilo of body weight.

Dr Michael Zourdos Research

Zourdos research demonstrated with "Raw Lifters" that the Conjugate - Weekly Undulating Training dramatically increased strength over Traditional Linear Periodization Training (focusing ONLY on strength).

Specific days were set aside during the week to train each strength (as Westside does).

Example:

1) Monday: Hypertrophy

2) Wednesday: Power

3) Friday: Strength

"Compensatory Acceleration"

This means pulling/pushing a weight up in a lift up as fast and hard as you can. Hatfield demonstrated that doing so increased strength by innervating Fast Type IIa and "Super" Fast Type IIb/x muscle fiber.

"Research indicates that a heavy squat, even when performed in an explosive manner "is an insufficient stimulus for improvements in muscle power…" Source: "Squatting: To Be Explosive, Train Explosive", http://www.worldclassbodybuilding.co...p/t-57037.html

The Benefits

1) It stimulates and develops Fast Twitch Muscle Fiber Type IIa and specifically the "Super" Fast Type II Muscle Fiber.

2) It increases Motor Unit Recruitment. A greater number of muscle fiber learn to fire simultaneously. The more muscle fiber firing at the same time, the more weight you lift.

3) It increases Rate Coding. Fast twitch muscle fiber firing frequency increases.

Take Home Message

1) Training program that incorporate Strength, Power and Hypertrophy Training are more effective in the development of all type of strength, dependent on how the program is written.

2) One of the keys of pushing/pulling more weight is the development of Power. Power enables to over come your sticking point in a lift via momentum.

It like driving through a mud hole in your car. The more speed/momentum you can produce going into the mud hole, the more likely you are to get through the mud hole.

This law of physics applies to everyone, that means "Natural, Raw Lifters", as well.

Kenny Croxdale

[SA249]

In my opinion, one thing to be aware of is that you are limiting yourself with the number of lift variations for max effort work when compared to a more traditional westside/conjugate rotation. Because of that, you'll have to be a more cautious with how you are setting up your max effort days as to avoid burn out/getting a little beat up.

When I first started with a somewhat conjugate style rotation instead of true max effort work I ran 5/3/1 on my max effort days, and traditional speed work on my dynamic effort days. Using that (or something similar) as a starting point you can slowly adapt and change things as you begin to see fit.

[43Steelers]

ok so youd recommend doing something like this for a couple of weeks... exemple

axle bar ohp 3x5
camber bar ohp 3x3
paused ohp w/ chains 5, 3, 1
ohp deload 30-40% 1RM
axle push press 3x5
etc..

[JacobRothenberg]

Don't use Westside if you're not focusing on the 3 powerlifting movements. Use a simpler program. And FYI, you still need to be using the big 3 even if you want to specialize in overhead pressing.

[43Steelers]

Don't use Westside if you're not focusing on the 3 powerlifting movements. Use a simpler program.

not westside per say but using conjugate periodization with some westside principal (max effort, dynamic effort, repetition method). what else would you recommend? because a simpler program? its pretty straight forward and simple tbh: ohp days with supplemental lifts, deadlift days with supplemental lifts.

And FYI, you still need to be using the big 3 even if you want to specialize in overhead pressing.

why?

[JacobRothenberg]

why?

You will burn out fast limiting your ME movements involving solely the deadlift and OHP. Too much strain on the back and shoulders. You need to bench & squat to some capacity on any strength program. Nothing can replace the big compound movements as they are the best in overall strength development along with putting on size.

Try out the routine you've written out for 2 months and see how your body responds. I'd get run down having to deadlift so regularly twice a week - same with overhead pressing.

[43Steelers]

You will burn out fast limiting your ME movements involving solely the deadlift and OHP. Too much strain on the back and shoulders. You need to bench & squat to some capacity on any strength program. Nothing can replace the big compound movements as they are the best in overall strength development along with putting on size.

Try out the routine you've written out for 2 months and see how your body responds. I'd get run down having to deadlift so regularly twice a week - same with overhead pressing.

not really. you dont have to pull off the floor every week. a rack pull at the knee, a 6" & 4" block pull is less taxing than a box squat imo. not to mention if your low back is fried you can always pull behind the back or use an hex bar. hell you can even do pulls with heavy reverse bands to make the pull a little easier off the floor but really heavy at the top. and speed deadlift isn't even remotely taxing.

[KillerBEA]

why?

Bench overloads your anterior delt and triceps more than OHP does.

Squats help build your deadlift and are less taxing.

[jonglo]

Westside WORKS for Raw Lifters


It like driving through a mud hole in your car. The more speed/momentum you can produce going into the mud hole, the more likely you are to get through the mud hole.

This law of physics applies to everyone, that means "Natural, Raw Lifters", as well.

Kenny Croxdale

What do you think of Chad Wesley Smith's analysis of West side? I think one of the points he made was that dynamic work is a way to accrue volume at lower intensity. It works, because volume is important. Any kind of program with undulating periodisation scheme will give you the same thing. There's also a distinction between conjugate and westside. Westside is a subset of conjugate, but it's mostly famous for being suited towards geared lifters. Bands, chains, box squats etc work a strength curve that simulates more closely that of wearing a suit. To modify it for raw lifters you invariably end up with something nothing like the original westside, (max effort variations twice per week). It might technically be conjugate, but it's probably closer to a DUP style template.