Why not whole body workouts?

[nerdyone]

Hi Guys!

I've been a long time lurker here and I have a few questions.

From the age of 16 to my early 30's, I've worked out primarily at HIT gyms in Philadelphia. Recently, I've switched over to a traditional bodybuilding split:
Legs (15 sets)
Chest (12 Sets)
Back/Bicep (15 sets)
Shoulders/Triceps (12 sets)

I'm not sure if I am making much progress as I am on a diet (went from 225 to 190 over the past 3 months). While I enjoy these longer, less intense workouts, I am not sure why they are better than whole body workouts. With my old HIT routine, I would work out 3 days a week and cover the whole body each time, doing about 3 to 4 sets per body part with each set to both positive failure (often negative failure as well).

What is the advantage of a split over a whole body workout?

[Minotaur]

What is the advantage of a split over a whole body workout?

It comes down to personal preference and effectiveness.

If you do a fbw on MWF and miss a day, maybe W, if you make it up on Th, you can't really do it again on F, imo.

If you do a split on MWF and miss a day, maybe W, you can make it up on Th and do your next body group F.

It's a matter of preference and what works for you, especially wrt results. I personally don't care for fbw's but occasionally I'll do one for variety or to "make up" if I just had a crappy time doing my split.

Being out of the gym for the better part of a year, I started back recently doing a high rep (15) low weight fbw. But I quickly found myself wanting to gravitate back to my legs/push/pull split with lower reps and a little more weight.

If you have a lot of fat to lose (like me ), probably the higher rep/lower weight fbw is the way to go. It's a more aerobic workout.

[nerdyone]

It comes down to personal preference and effectiveness.

If you do a fbw on MWF and miss a day, maybe W, if you make it up on Th, you can't really do it again on F, imo.

If you do a split on MWF and miss a day, maybe W, you can make it up on Th and do your next body group F.

It's a matter of preference and what works for you, especially wrt results. I personally don't care for fbw's but occasionally I'll do one for variety or to "make up" if I just had a crappy time doing my split.

Being out of the gym for the better part of a year, I started back recently doing a high rep (15) low weight fbw. But I quickly found myself wanting to gravitate back to my legs/push/pull split with lower reps and a little more weight.

If you have a lot of fat to lose (like me ), probably the higher rep/lower weight fbw is the way to go. It's a more aerobic workout.

Body fat is ok right now. I am about 10-12%, I guess (5'8", 33" waist @ 195lbs). My lifts are ok I guess. I'm benching 225x8 and squatting 275x8 (I only squat once every two weeks since my knees ache for a long time afterwards).

If I do miss a workout, I just go the next day. I am a home based employee and travel only a few days a month, so missing workouts is rarely an issue. It just makes sense to me workout the body all at once as most muscles are connected (when you do squats, you work your core, etc).

[Old_swole]

When I train a muscle group I hit it pretty hard. there is no way I could train my whole body like that in one workout.

[Matt225]

When I train a muscle group I hit it pretty hard. there is no way I could train my whole body like that in one workout.

Good point i tried this when i first started i feel drained for 3 days. Whole body workouts are exhausting

[Brackneyc]

When I train a muscle group I hit it pretty hard. there is no way I could train my whole body like that in one workout.

I have done both (FB and Split). If the training is tailored correctly, you can hit each body part hard as hell, and still train it to grow and get stronger. For most guys (me included), it was hard to let go of all the isolation movements, and keep it mostly compound.

I saw great results doing FB. I only switched my routine recently, which is more of an upper/lower split, but still very heavy on the compounds, with very little in the way of isolation (only for arms really).

I only split mine up because I get up at 4:30 everyday anyway, so figured I'd make the best of it.

[Old_swole]

I have done both (FB and Split). If the training is tailored correctly, you can hit each body part hard as hell, and still train it to grow and get stronger. For most guys (me included), it was hard to let go of all the isolation movements, and keep it mostly compound.

I saw great results doing FB. I only switched my routine recently, which is more of an upper/lower split, but still very heavy on the compounds, with very little in the way of isolation (only for arms really).

I only split mine up because I get up at 4:30 everyday anyway, so figured I'd make the best of it.

I should of put in a "IMO" disclaimer in there because as you said there are a lot of people that get great results with FB workouts. Just another example of finding what works for you, and then putting enough intencity into it to achieve the results desired.

[Brackneyc]

I should of put in a "IMO" disclaimer in there because as you said there are a lot of people that get great results with FB workouts. Just another example of finding what works for you, and then putting enough intencity into it to achieve the results desired.

I hear you. I have never struggled with the routine, only diet.

[WonderPug]

Body fat is ok right now. I am about 10-12%, I guess (5'8", 33" waist @ 195lbs).

Slightly OT, but perhaps relevant to the OP:

I might be entirely wrong, but at your height and weight, it seems unlikely that a 33" waist would be consistant with body fat at or below 12%.

By way of example, I'm slightly taller than you and when I was 10 pounds lighter than you (at 9% body fat) I had a 29" waist (in my best condition) and a 30/31 inch waist at 12% to 14% body fat at about your weight.

[Don71]

What works best for me is spliting the upper body into one Push workout, one pull wokout, and one lower body workout. Mostly all compounds, low reps. Then I throw in a few higher rep sets and some isolation work......usually 10-20 reps.

[arthurb999]

For me it's a time thing. I would love to spend a hour a day in the gym but that's just not possible for me. So if I can get in 2 full body days with the iron, 1 sprint day at the track and one 5k run for time ... I'm happy and still making progress.

[nerdyone]

Slightly OT, but perhaps relevant to the OP:

I might be entirely wrong, but at your height and weight, it seems unlikely that a 33" waist would be consistant with body fat at or below 12%.

By way of example, I'm slightly taller than you and when I was 10 pounds lighter than you (at 9% body fat) I had a 29" waist (in my best condition) and a 30/31 inch waist at 12% to 14% body fat at about your weight.

Probably right. I'm just guesstimating.

[ironwill2008]

What is the advantage of a split over a whole body workout?

An advantage only exists after you've determined that you can no longer make progress on a Full Body routine. FB allows you to train the same bodyparts multiple times a week (more frequency), but with less exercises/sets (volume) per individual bodypart.

Most trainees eventually get to a point where they need more than one exercise per bodypart in order to continue to progress, but simply adding more sets to a FB gets out of hand (workouts become way too long, and intensity suffers) quickly.

Enter the Split Routine, which adds more exercises/sets per bodypart, but only hitting that bodypart once, or possibly twice, per week. There's always going to be a tradeoff between how much work you can give a particular bodypart, and how often you can give it that much work. That tradeoff point will be determined by your individual recovery ability.


The bottome line is that Volume and Frequency go hand in hand, and the two have to be balanced out in whatever way the trainee has determined is the better way for his/her progress.

Not trying to write a book here; I'll stop.

[nerdyone]

My HIT workout looks something like this. I do change it up from time to time:

Squat or Leg Press (3-4 sets)
Bench Press (3 sets)
T-Bar Row (3 sets)
Seated Military Press (3 sets)
Supersets of Pullups and Dips (2 sets)
Lateral Raise (1 set)
Supersets of Curls and Pushdowns (2 sets)

It takes about 45 minutes tops to complete my workout. I keep excellent records and I have been able to add poundage over the past few months while still losing weight.

My traditional split workouts are just like everybody elses. I can't use the same heavy weights as I can in my traditional workouts after the second or third execise as I am so tired. Is this normal?

[ironwill2008]

My HIT workout looks something like this. I do change it up from time to time:

I'm confused by this post. You state that this is a HIT routine, but yet list multiple sets.

[nerdyone]

I'm confused by this post. You state that this is a HIT routine, but yet list multiple sets.

It's not HIT in the sense of doing only ONE set only. When I used to workout in HIT gyms only, I was capable of doing that because of the trainers. Working out on my own, I can't get my intensity up enough to do it all in one set.

[ljimd]

Hi Guys!

I've been a long time lurker here and I have a few questions.

From the age of 16 to my early 30's, I've worked out primarily at HIT gyms in Philadelphia. Recently, I've switched over to a traditional bodybuilding split:
Legs (15 sets)
Chest (12 Sets)
Back/Bicep (15 sets)
Shoulders/Triceps (12 sets)

I'm not sure if I am making much progress as I am on a diet (went from 225 to 190 over the past 3 months). While I enjoy these longer, less intense workouts, I am not sure why they are better than whole body workouts. With my old HIT routine, I would work out 3 days a week and cover the whole body each time, doing about 3 to 4 sets per body part with each set to both positive failure (often negative failure as well).

What is the advantage of a split over a whole body workout?

You didn't really say what kind of progress you feel you are not making?
Strength? Size? More weight loss? Maybe your diet needs the attention and not your workout. Almost any routine will work with the proper focus and intensity.
Remember, it's a long trip, not a sprint.

[nerdyone]

You didn't really say what kind of progress you feel you are not making?
Strength? Size? More weight loss? Maybe your diet needs the attention and not your workout. Almost any routine will work with the proper focus and intensity.
Remember, it's a long trip, not a sprint.

maintaining muscle as I lose weight. I feel like I am becoming a scrawny guy, the more weight I lose.

As for diet, I'm pretty consistent:

Breakfast:
3-4 eggs
Whole wheat toast
Decaf Coffee with cream and splenda

Lunch:
1 serving oatmeal

Snack:
Protein shake or tuna fish

Dinner:
Fish/Chicken/Pork
Baked Potato/Sweet Potato
Salad/Veggie

I have recently been diagnosed with ulcerated colitis so eating has been difficult. Add that to the fact I'm getting over Pneumonia and the stress of relocating from Philadelphia to Charleston while building a house, my stomach has been a mess.

[ljimd]

maintaining muscle as I lose weight. I feel like I am becoming a scrawny guy, the more weight I lose.

As for diet, I'm pretty consistent:

Breakfast:
3-4 eggs
Whole wheat toast
Decaf Coffee with cream and splenda

Lunch:
1 serving oatmeal

Snack:
Protein shake or tuna fish

Dinner:
Fish/Chicken/Pork
Baked Potato/Sweet Potato
Salad/Veggie

I have recently been diagnosed with ulcerated colitis so eating has been difficult. Add that to the fact I'm getting over Pneumonia and the stress of relocating from Philadelphia to Charleston while building a house, my stomach has been a mess.

Wow! Ulcerative colitis, pneumonia, moving and also building a house I'm surprised you have time to train. I applaud your efforts and hope things smooth out for you.
I wouldn't call 180-190# scrawny. You just miss that fat you took off. As you slowly add muscle you will be glad you don't have the fat to go with it.
Your diet looks fine, other than make sure your protein intake stays high (maybe add another shake break.) But with your condition you should probably go over it with your doc before you make any changes.
Best of luck to you.

[nerdyone]

Wow! Ulcerative colitis, pneumonia, moving and also building a house I'm surprised you have time to train. I applaud your efforts and hope things smooth out for you.
I wouldn't call 180-190# scrawny. You just miss that fat you took off. As you slowly add muscle you will be glad you don't have the fat to go with it.
Your diet looks fine, other than make sure your protein intake stays high (maybe add another shake break.) But with your condition you should probably go over it with your doc before you make any changes.
Best of luck to you.

Yeah, the UC is the worse. I'm in remission now, but it is awful. I had to take 3 weeks off to recover. I also miss the fact that I can't drink any beer ever again. It helps the diet, but I really miss it with football on Sundays.

I will post before and after pics in December. Going back to whole body workouts right now because of work travel schedule. Can't manage a split routine right now.

Three weeks until the house is done, so hopefully the stress goes away and the better workouts return.

[BrotherWolf]

What is the advantage of a split over a whole body workout?

it's an excellent question...

As I see it the only difference is volume/intensity
with a split you can perform more volume work and without hitting the same muscles directly more than 1-2x week.. good for bodybuilding type routines

a full body routine will hit all your muscles, so you need to perform more intense workouts but do less volume like in strength training and have rest days in between ..
You can of course have a split and apply it to strength training as you can do full body for bodybuilding routines..
time wise it's hard to do a full body BBing routine if the volume is large
imagine how long it would take to do 10 sets of 15 reps for each body part..

Then there are other reasons like for example working around injuries, example your elbow hurts if you use it too much , in that case you do a split routine so that you don't work it as often..

personally I have been doing full body 3x (sometimes 4x) a week for over 2 years.. I just like it that way, it's simple to remember and always leaves me beaten.


Anyway that's all I could think of

[BrotherWolf]

Not trying to write a book here; I'll stop.

This kind of topics require a lot more than just a few posts .. a book would do it

[BrotherWolf]

If the training is tailored correctly, you can hit each body part hard as hell, and still train it to grow and get stronger.

^ exactly

[DaddyR]

Are there really gyms that FORCE you to follow one given training methodology (HIT)?

[tonester]

The bottome line is that Volume and Frequency go hand in hand, and the two have to be balanced out in whatever way the trainee has determined is the better way for his/her progress.

Amen to that. Results are all about progress and recovery.

[nerdyone]

Are there really gyms that FORCE you to follow one given training methodology (HIT)?

Yes, there are several on the Main Line that are setup for HIT workouts that use med-x and nautilus machines exclusively for their equipment

[erinlee01]

Just to add to what has already been said, one thing that jumps out at me is that you refer to your bodybuilding split as "less intense". Whether you do full body or you do a split, the workout should still be intense. If it isn't, then you are not pushing yourself hard enough. Just because you are only doing 1 or 2 bodyparts in a workout shouldn't make the workout less intense.

[whatevergirl]

Hi Guys!

I've been a long time lurker here and I have a few questions.

From the age of 16 to my early 30's, I've worked out primarily at HIT gyms in Philadelphia. Recently, I've switched over to a traditional bodybuilding split:
Legs (15 sets)
Chest (12 Sets)
Back/Bicep (15 sets)
Shoulders/Triceps (12 sets)

I'm not sure if I am making much progress as I am on a diet (went from 225 to 190 over the past 3 months). While I enjoy these longer, less intense workouts, I am not sure why they are better than whole body workouts. With my old HIT routine, I would work out 3 days a week and cover the whole body each time, doing about 3 to 4 sets per body part with each set to both positive failure (often negative failure as well).

What is the advantage of a split over a whole body workout?

Hello...
I am new to getting serious this year with weight lifting. I started with a full body beginners workout about hmmm....think it's been 4 months now? And, it was great to start. Over time however, it grew to bore me. And now that I've joined a gym, there is so much variety, that if I were to do a full body workout...I'd be at the gym for hours. So, to me? The split allows you to really focus in on that muscle group for the session...and take your time. I found that I was beginning to skip certain exercises with the full body or rush through them, because it was just going to turn into a 2 hour session, otherwise. So to me...it's more of a time efficiency vs the ROI that I'm getting in that time.

[RATyson]

I do a whole body workout... And I am a beginner. Do those two things go together purposely? I don't know for sure, but it seems to.

My training sessions are 3 days a week (M,W,F), and take just over an hour. They consist of the following exercises:
Squats
Bench press
Bent over bb Rows
bb Overhead Press
bb Stiff Legged Dead Lifts
bb Curls
Calf Raises
Triceps Presses
(the latter two exercises were thrown in after one cycle)

The progression of the training goes like this:
2 warmup sets + 2 full working weight sets of each exercise
Monday is a heavy day (full weight based on starting with 75% of 1RM), Wednesday is mid day (90%), Friday is a light day (80%)
5 week cycle:
Week 1 - 8 reps of each
Week 2 - 9 reps of each
Week 3 - 10 reps of each
Week 4 - 11 reps of each
Week 5 - 12 reps of each

For each exercise that I get 12 reps on week 5 - increase the weight by 10%
For any that I don't get 12 reps on week 5, keep the same weight.

Start back at week 1 rep count. Lather, rinse, repeat.

I have been really happy with the progress I have been making with the effort I have been putting in. I have been busting my tail at the gym with this whole body workout, and it has been providing me with good results.

I have not tried a split workout, so I don't know if my results would be any different or not. I figure as long as you are challenging your body you will get results, regardless of the "type" of workout you are doing.


Full credit for this workout goes to All Pro for his "Simple Beginners Routine"

[Guff]

I've been doing a full body for a few months now and I've seen some nice gains from it.

IMO it's a great way for a new person to start out, and it's nice for someone more experienced to 'mix it up' from time to time.