Anabolic diet

[AdamWW]

Also, if cuts are so easy for you, why are you afraid to put on a little bit of fat to maximize muscle building and do a simple cut later.

Imagine doing a stress-free bulk and building lots and lots of muscle in your abdominal region, but losing their appearance temporarily, then doing a simple easy cut and revealing abs that look 40 times better than what they are now.

EXACTLY.

I don't understand why it's always the super-lean/easy cutters who try SO hard to avoid any trace amount of bodyfat while bulking... unless they have a horrible body image disorder.

[Nicksosure1]

EXACTLY.

I don't understand why it's always the super-lean/easy cutters who try SO hard to avoid any trace amount of bodyfat while bulking... unless they have a horrible body image disorder.

I understand it to an extent because I was the same way when I started bulking.

You work so hard to get lean and you're just afraid of undoing your hard work. But it's almost always a product of the individual not realizing that you won't turn into a balloon by consuming a surplus if you're putting in the right work, especially when extremely lean and your body screaming at you to put on more lean mass. We get attached to this extreme look of leaness, not understanding that we could potentially look so much better if we add a little bit of fat and a lot more muscle to our frame.

Just a product of fear and misunderstanding. I have a feeling that once OP gets further along and adds a little bit more weight, he'll start to care less and less as he sees himself grow. Experience drives knowledge and diminishes fear.

[AdamWW]

I understand it to an extent because I was the same way when I started bulking.

You work so hard to get lean and you're just afraid of undoing your hard work. But it's almost always a product of the individual not realizing that you won't turn into a balloon by consuming a surplus if you're putting in the right work, especially when extremely lean and your body screaming at you to put on more lean mass. We get attached to this extreme look of leaness, not understanding that we could potentially look so much better if we add a little bit of fat and a lot more muscle to our frame.

Just a product of fear and misunderstanding. I have a feeling that once OP gets further along and adds a little bit more weight, he'll start to care less and less as he sees himself grow. Experience drives knowledge and diminishes fear.

I hear ya, I struggled with the same... it did stem from an issue with body image, but like you said you 'get used to it' after a while. And now, I actually like having some visible fat to be honest.

[Nicksosure1]

I hear ya, I struggled with the same... it did stem from an issue with body image, but like you said you 'get used to it' after a while. And now, I actually like having some visible fat to be honest.

Yep. I don't necessarily LIKE seeing visible fat, I just know now that it's a necessary evil to get where I would like to go (and in some cases beneficial if the individual is lean to an unhealthy degree). You also don't realize how bad you feel until you start reaching a healthy weight. I know you've mentioned how much better you feel mentally and physically after putting some lbs back on. I'm in the same boat.

[AdamWW]

Yep. I don't necessarily LIKE seeing visible fat, I just know now that it's a necessary evil to get where I would like to go (and in some cases beneficial if the individual is lean to an unhealthy degree). You also don't realize how bad you feel until you start reaching a healthy weight. I know you've mentioned how much better you feel mentally and physically after putting some lbs back on. I'm in the same boat.

The sleep improvements alone for me have been AMAZING.

Lowering cortisol by increasing food and just adding SOME small amount of fat makes such a huge difference... it's amazing.

Also just feeling like I have more cushion in my joints, more general vigor, sex drive... it all adds up.

[Nicksosure1]

The sleep improvements alone for me have been AMAZING.

Lowering cortisol by increasing food and just adding SOME small amount of fat makes such a huge difference... it's amazing.

Also just feeling like I have more cushion in my joints, more general vigor, sex drive... it all adds up.

Libido and sleep were the two biggest things I noticed right off the bat when I started gaining again. I remember waking up EVERY night after 5 hours a sleep at 128lbs, thinking that it was normal and I felt normal. I still can't sleep over 7 hours a night now, but I think that's really just the max I personally require nowadays.

I've said it before but feeling well is so underrated among the fitness community. It's insane.

[Calikid32190]

What I always fine interesting with these kind of posts is it 9 out of 10 times its carbs that people believe they have problems with or attempt to avoid for some reason. I am not saying that this is not the case but very rarely do I read people complaining about fat or the holy protein (I have seen a couple but not many).

No-one seems to complain protein and fats will cause issues or cause more fat storage (which is weird for fat as its easier to process dietary fats into body fat especially saturated fats for the human body). Personally I eat lower fat (bare minimum) and medium protein (just a bit above the minimum) and high carbs, I feel a lot better high carbs and find too much protein makes my stomach feel uncomfortable where dietary fats just don't offer enough food volume for the calories involved.

It is a balancing act for every individual to find what works for them but I will be honest I am one of these people who get a tad annoyed when I read the amount of posts that continuously blames carbs for fat gains. Carbs don't make you gain fat, too many calories do that (yes some people are insulin resistance and all the other stuff but I think its way too blown out of the water by both media and many individuals seeing as one of the most nutritional food around is high in carbs aka fruit).

I read the AD guide that someone had posted on the forums and he had links to TD nation where the guy writing the article says that carbs haven’t always been around compared to fats and proteins and the people from that time were in really good shape.

[Calikid32190]

Ya know, you may even achieve better results if you just let go a bit, especially when looking to gain even on the leanest bulk possible. I understand wanting to be as perfect as you can be, I really do. But stress also plays an incredible role in how our bodies handle things mentally and physically. From reading these posts, you seem like a highly stressed individual worrying about these kinds of things and I'd hate to see you or anyone going down a dark path.

To put your mind at ease a bit, I don't think you realize how hard it is to put on incredible amounts of fat even going on a +500 surplus whether it be from carbs, fats, or protein in a lean state if you're working your tail off in the gym.

Just breathe man. Enjoy what you're doing. And I know you've said you're going to do this, but don't be afraid to up your calories at all from any source.

Thank you I think I still want to stay on the AD but I didn’t do the induction phase which is 2 weeks but i came over from low carb. So I might start the induction phase just to make sure I can get my body to burn fat. I find the AD to be enjoyable because the foods are good and casseroles are easy for meal prepping. Of course I have my weekends for the carbs but I was so worried about eating to many proteins or fats because they’re supposed to be low. That’s hard to do just eat carbs while the other 2 stay low. For 3000 calories which is what I’m taking it to now it’s 400gs of carbs on weekends. How important is it to hit this number? I know carbs dont have a minimum but if the weekend is supposed to be high carb and I only get 200g out of the 400 would that be wrong?

[kusok]

What I always fine interesting with these kind of posts is it 9 out of 10 times its carbs that people believe they have problems with or attempt to avoid for some reason. I am not saying that this is not the case but very rarely do I read people complaining about fat or the holy protein (I have seen a couple but not many).

No-one seems to complain protein and fats will cause issues or cause more fat storage (which is weird for fat as its easier to process dietary fats into body fat especially saturated fats for the human body). Personally I eat lower fat (bare minimum) and medium protein (just a bit above the minimum) and high carbs, I feel a lot better high carbs and find too much protein makes my stomach feel uncomfortable where dietary fats just don't offer enough food volume for the calories involved.

It is a balancing act for every individual to find what works for them but I will be honest I am one of these people who get a tad annoyed when I read the amount of posts that continuously blames carbs for fat gains. Carbs don't make you gain fat, too many calories do that (yes some people are insulin resistance and all the other stuff but I think its way too blown out of the water by both media and many individuals seeing as one of the most nutritional food around is high in carbs aka fruit).

Isn’t like half the population diabetic or pre diabetic? Those people also store dietary fat as body fat easier than carbs?

The argument of the low carbers generally is that people with sheitty insulin (aka half the population) process carbs poorly, so instead of going to work on muscle carbs go to fat storage.

I’m nowhere near educated enough in this area to know wether the above is true and to what degree. But it is interesting that when I shared by blood work (terrible blood sugar and cholesterol, pathetic glucose metabolism, pre diabetic despite never being anywhere near overweight or out of shape etc.) with Lyle McDonald himself he promptly stated that I have “metabolic issues” and would do great on low carb diet with weekly carb ups aka his UD2.0 or a similar approach.

There is definitely anti carb dogma, but there is also anti low carb dogma.

[Calikid32190]

Also, if cuts are so easy for you, why are you afraid to put on a little bit of fat to maximize muscle building and do a simple cut later.

Imagine doing a stress-free bulk and building lots and lots of muscle in your abdominal region, but losing their appearance temporarily, then doing a simple easy cut and revealing abs that look 40 times better than what they are now.

I think I need more knowledge on the cutting aspect. How much do people normally cut down to at a time? For example if my goal is 180 and I’m 135 do I aim for 150 then do a cut? It so how much weight would I want to drop? It seems like I would just be going in circles never getting to my 180 goal if I constantly cut back down. Maybe 5 pounds each cut? Also you can’t pick and choose if your body loses fat so how will I know I’ll be losing the fat I gained? Is this why i want to make sure my protein is really high on a cut I make sure I don’t lose muscle just fat?

[Calikid32190]

I understand it to an extent because I was the same way when I started bulking.

You work so hard to get lean and you're just afraid of undoing your hard work. But it's almost always a product of the individual not realizing that you won't turn into a balloon by consuming a surplus if you're putting in the right work, especially when extremely lean and your body screaming at you to put on more lean mass. We get attached to this extreme look of leaness, not understanding that we could potentially look so much better if we add a little bit of fat and a lot more muscle to our frame.

Just a product of fear and misunderstanding. I have a feeling that once OP gets further along and adds a little bit more weight, he'll start to care less and less as he sees himself grow. Experience drives knowledge and diminishes fear.

It sounds like you really understand me then. I am really worried to mess up my hard work I put in to get lean. How do I know if I’m putting in the right work though? I mean I do Vikings bare bones which is on here and I do the full body version 3 days a week. Is that enough work? Also I watch a lot of WWE some of the guys there I like there body style but I know most people on here will probably just say it’s steroids but someone like Finn balor is about 180 and super defined that’s more of the body style I want to achieve. Here’s a pic of him. He doesn’t look massive like someone else who might be 180 would look

https://imgur.com/a/bk8gyUK

[hardyboysare]

I read the AD guide that someone had posted on the forums and he had links to TD nation where the guy writing the article says that carbs haven’t always been around compared to fats and proteins and the people from that time were in really good shape.

Fruit and roots (starches) have been around since we were primates and processed carbs such as bread have been around since 8000BC so our bodies would have easily adjusted to the processing of these products by then.

Although primates generally are more prone to consume fats and protein especially in winter (no fruit or plants available), humans are not primates mainly due to our brain size which requires a significant amount of glucose and our cells require glucose to function, carbs offer this in a abundance as simple because carbs are a form of sugar (glucose). And no the people back then were not in good shape that is a myth most were lean simply because they lacked food sources to sustain themselves therefore lean as they had to active to catch their food which developed muscle. If not they died.

[hardyboysare]

Isn’t like half the population diabetic or pre diabetic? Those people also store dietary fat as body fat easier than carbs?

The argument of the low carbers generally is that people with sheitty insulin (aka half the population) process carbs poorly, so instead of going to work on muscle carbs go to fat storage.

I’m nowhere near educated enough in this area to know wether the above is true and to what degree. But it is interesting that when I shared by blood work (terrible blood sugar and cholesterol, pathetic glucose metabolism, pre diabetic despite never being anywhere near overweight or out of shape etc.) with Lyle McDonald himself he promptly stated that I have “metabolic issues” and would do great on low carb diet with weekly carb ups aka his UD2.0 or a similar approach.

There is definitely anti carb dogma, but there is also anti low carb dogma.

For the storing of fats as body fat would this be easier for someone who is pre-diabetic or diabetic when in a calorie surplus I would still state that dietary fats would be stored easier simply because dietary fats and body fat share similar molecular structure therefore easier to store as fat (no need to convert into body fat so no energy wastage). This would only happen though in a calorie surplus.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5786199/ - the few studies used in this article show a slight increase in fat mass when consuming a diet consistent of dietary fat then carb when in a caloric surplus (however not significant still a bit higher).

The worlds population it is about 9% of people who are insulin resistant and about 1/3 in America.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition...lin-resistance

I think if you do actually have a proven state of insulin resistant then lowering carbs will obviously be helpful and will help achieve your body composition, that said most insulin resistance is caused by being too much overweight with excess fat free acid in the blood (not all but the majority) therefore losing some fat would and even being diabetic your body still follows the basic principle of calories in vs calories out it simply has to.

I wouldn't even to begin to questions Lyle view as he is much more educated then me but I don't see how you can eat carbs sometimes and not others will cause any real benefit since calories over a prolonged period of time dictate weight loss not the macro. If someone was really effected by carbs then overeating them at any time would cause effect. If someone is sensitive to insulin (which diabetics are) why would having a high carb help as a diabetic would potential kill themselves so if you have some symptoms similar to a diabetic (aka the sensitive) then excess carbs would have the same effect.

[kusok]

For the storing of fats as body fat would this be easier for someone who is pre-diabetic or diabetic when in a calorie surplus I would still state that dietary fats would be stored easier simply because dietary fats and body fat share similar molecular structure therefore easier to store as fat (no need to convert into body fat so no energy wastage). This would only happen though in a calorie surplus.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5786199/ - the few studies used in this article show a slight increase in fat mass when consuming a diet consistent of dietary fat then carb when in a caloric surplus (however not significant still a bit higher).

The worlds population it is about 9% of people who are insulin resistant and about 1/3 in America.

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition...lin-resistance

I think if you do actually have a proven state of insulin resistant then lowering carbs will obviously be helpful and will help achieve your body composition, that said most insulin resistance is caused by being too much overweight with excess fat free acid in the blood (not all but the majority) therefore losing some fat would and even being diabetic your body still follows the basic principle of calories in vs calories out it simply has to.

I wouldn't even to begin to questions Lyle view as he is much more educated then me but I don't see how you can eat carbs sometimes and not others will cause any real benefit since calories over a prolonged period of time dictate weight loss not the macro. If someone was really effected by carbs then overeating them at any time would cause effect. If someone is sensitive to insulin (which diabetics are) why would having a high carb help as a diabetic would potential kill themselves so if you have some symptoms similar to a diabetic (aka the sensitive) then excess carbs would have the same effect.

The idea behind this carb up stuff is that by the time several days passed and you’ve been low carbing you’re flat and deflated and so when you do eat carbs your body prioritizes refilling glycogen in the muscle and helping with recovery and growth/anabolism etc.

Don’t bodybuilders use this concept all the time when depleting and then carbing up for the show? They eat entire cheesecake in one sitting after their cutting diet, and their muscles swell up like Hulk but stomach is still flat for a day or two. now if they KEEP eating that high carb intake then bye bye visible abs. At least that’s the logic behind this.

[Nicksosure1]

Thank you I think I still want to stay on the AD but I didn’t do the induction phase which is 2 weeks but i came over from low carb. So I might start the induction phase just to make sure I can get my body to burn fat. I find the AD to be enjoyable because the foods are good and casseroles are easy for meal prepping. Of course I have my weekends for the carbs but I was so worried about eating to many proteins or fats because they’re supposed to be low. That’s hard to do just eat carbs while the other 2 stay low. For 3000 calories which is what I’m taking it to now it’s 400gs of carbs on weekends. How important is it to hit this number? I know carbs dont have a minimum but if the weekend is supposed to be high carb and I only get 200g out of the 400 would that be wrong?

I did keto for about 2.5 years but it was on a cut and I benefited from it mostly for an adherence standpoint. I admittedly don’t know much about cyclical approaches.

I just don’t want you to demonize carbs in this process and I also don’t want you to worry about minimizing fat gains TOO much. Not matter what approach you take, you will gain a bit of fat and that’s fine, you can do a simple cut later and have way better abs than you do now. I just think working daily carbs into your diet would benefit you more on a bulk from a consistent performance standpoint. But if you have success with it, you have success with it.

If I was following that diet, I would follow the protocol and consume the whole 400g. Especially if you’re restricting carbs strictly throughout the week.

[hardyboysare]

The idea behind this carb up stuff is that by the time several days passed and you’ve been low carbing you’re flat and deflated and so when you do eat carbs your body prioritizes refilling glycogen in the muscle and helping with recovery and growth/anabolism etc.

Don’t bodybuilders use this concept all the time when deprecating and then carbing up fo rate show? They eat entire cheesecake in one sitting after their cutting diet, and their muscles swell up like Hulk but stomach is still flat for a day or two. now if they KEEP eating that high carb intake then bye bye visible abs. At least that’s the logic behind this.

Yes that is called glycogen supercompensation and you are right about the process it fills the muscle glycogen causing increase size due to glycogen and water increase over a short period time after a prolonged deficit of carb consumption.

The softness you achieve afterwards is just water weight as you now have a saturation of glucogen available for the body to use. Generally this will pass and balance out but a carb high diet will cause some water weight.

I don't see how that relates to insulin sensitivity though unless you are bodybuilder walking on stage. Likewise muscle gain is not really effected by carbs in the way of lean mass production only in ATP energy availability allowing greater workout performance. So the idea of needing a carb up for someone who is sensitive to carbs seems counter productive to me.

[Nicksosure1]

It sounds like you really understand me then. I am really worried to mess up my hard work I put in to get lean. How do I know if I’m putting in the right work though? I mean I do Vikings bare bones which is on here and I do the full body version 3 days a week. Is that enough work? Also I watch a lot of WWE some of the guys there I like there body style but I know most people on here will probably just say it’s steroids but someone like Finn balor is about 180 and super defined that’s more of the body style I want to achieve. Here’s a pic of him. He doesn’t look massive like someone else who might be 180 would look

https://imgur.com/a/bk8gyUK

If you follow a proper program and follow a +300 surplus, gaining around .5lbs a week, and progressing in all major lifts, then you can feel comfortable you are doing it right. Mirror pics and waist measurements can help you stay on track from a fat minimization standpoint.

[Nicksosure1]

It sounds like you really understand me then. I am really worried to mess up my hard work I put in to get lean. How do I know if I’m putting in the right work though? I mean I do Vikings bare bones which is on here and I do the full body version 3 days a week. Is that enough work? Also I watch a lot of WWE some of the guys there I like there body style but I know most people on here will probably just say it’s steroids but someone like Finn balor is about 180 and super defined that’s more of the body style I want to achieve. Here’s a pic of him. He doesn’t look massive like someone else who might be 180 would look

https://imgur.com/a/bk8gyUK

And man, I cut down from 315lbs to 129lbs before I started bulking so I understand you better than most but you HAVE to get over the fear a fat gain on bulk if you want it to be a success. I struggled with my bulk until I did and I can tell you I’m glad I did.

[WolfRose7]

Isn’t like half the population diabetic or pre diabetic? Those people also store dietary fat as body fat easier than carbs?

The argument of the low carbers generally is that people with sheitty insulin (aka half the population) process carbs poorly, so instead of going to work on muscle carbs go to fat storage.

I’m nowhere near educated enough in this area to know wether the above is true and to what degree. But it is interesting that when I shared by blood work (terrible blood sugar and cholesterol, pathetic glucose metabolism, pre diabetic despite never being anywhere near overweight or out of shape etc.) with Lyle McDonald himself he promptly stated that I have “metabolic issues” and would do great on low carb diet with weekly carb ups aka his UD2.0 or a similar approach.

There is definitely anti carb dogma, but there is also anti low carb dogma.

You've a few good points, but come on, Lyle telling you to try a low carb diet is like asking a vegetarian if you should be veggie xD

[Calikid32190]

And man, I cut down from 315lbs to 129lbs before I started bulking so I understand you better than most but you HAVE to get over the fear a fat gain on bulk if you want it to be a success. I struggled with my bulk until I did and I can tell you I’m glad I did.

Wow how long did that take you to get down to 129? I used to weigh in consistently at 150 but I had to get my body fat low so I dropped all the way to 130 and got rid of most of it. I’m 10% BF everywhere but my lower stomach like right underneath my belly button I’m 15% BF there and have no idea how to get rid of it. I definitely don’t want to go under 130 because I’ll look nasty skinny. Also since you have a lot of similar things as me what program would you recommend like what are you doing? What about your diet you’re doing? Also how can someone look like the pic I posted? Can you get that from the gym?

[kusok]

You've a few good points, but come on, Lyle telling you to try a low carb diet is like asking a vegetarian if you should be veggie xD

Well in Lyle’s defense he doesn’t advocate low carb diets for everyone. He prefers carbs in fact, says you will be more anabolic with carbs due to hormone levels and so on. But he recommends low carb for people who feel bloated and sleepy after carb meals, to people with crappy insulin sensitivity.

He always bitches about being called the Keto guy because he wrote that Keto book while he specifically doesn’t recommend Keto or low carb for most people.

[AdamWW]

Libido and sleep were the two biggest things I noticed right off the bat when I started gaining again. I remember waking up EVERY night after 5 hours a sleep at 128lbs, thinking that it was normal and I felt normal. I still can't sleep over 7 hours a night now, but I think that's really just the max I personally require nowadays.

I've said it before but feeling well is so underrated among the fitness community. It's insane.

The sleep issue is totally cortisol related dude.. for real.

When you don't have enough fat, you don't produce enough leptin, and cortisol as a result goes way up as a survival mechanism which commands your body to seek food. it's kind of fascinating!

[kusok]

Speaking of libido, that’s the confusion for me on Keto, libido dies completely LOL, and of course I go flat in muscles. Then if I eat a bowl of pasta my friend down there wakes up and goes bro WTF happened? Was I out for a while? I don’t remember anything!

Go figure... Listen I’d rather walk around with less visible abs than be impotent...

[Calikid32190]

Speaking of libido, that’s the confusion for me on Keto, libido dies completely LOL, and of course I go flat in muscles. Then if I eat a bowl of pasta my friend down there wakes up and goes bro WTF happened? Was I out for a while? I don’t remember anything!

Go figure... Listen I’d rather walk around with less visible abs than be impotent...

That’s weird that you say this because I thought fats help with hormones which would help with erections?

[AdamWW]

That’s weird that you say this because I thought fats help with hormones which would help with erections?

Consuming fat beyond a certain point wont provide the same marginal benefits as increasing them from a low level to a more optimal one.

[kusok]

That’s weird that you say this because I thought fats help with hormones which would help with erections?

Different people respond differently I guess. Indeed many people report better sleep and sex on Keto or low carb, while I can’t sleep nor have any sex drive on Keto. Maybe need time to adopt.

The whole thing is just strange. Like here is another weird observation that for me is like clockwork, I did this experiment many times. On super low carb days I can run forever, breathing is free, cardio working like a well oiled machine. On 200 grams carbs out of breath as soon as I start running...

I mean FML. LOL

[armies]

Great diet, i can gain weight on the AD very easily, but I like being ripped and I want to only add weight very gradually

[Nicksosure1]

Wow how long did that take you to get down to 129? I used to weigh in consistently at 150 but I had to get my body fat low so I dropped all the way to 130 and got rid of most of it. I’m 10% BF everywhere but my lower stomach like right underneath my belly button I’m 15% BF there and have no idea how to get rid of it. I definitely don’t want to go under 130 because I’ll look nasty skinny. Also since you have a lot of similar things as me what program would you recommend like what are you doing? What about your diet you’re doing? Also how can someone look like the pic I posted? Can you get that from the gym?

It took me about 2.5 years, I could’ve done it a lot quicker now though. And you definitely don’t want to get TOO lean, chances are you’ll feel awful. I did.

I kinda follow my own programming nowadays but for you I would pick something on here like Beginners Fierce5, which seems to be a popular one. And if you want to build abs more, you can always throw in extra accessory ab work into the program. Just make sure you overload and progress with that muscle group as well.

Edit: and my diet right now is generally low fat, protein around 1-1.2/lb and about 300-340g carbs a day.

[Mrpb]

Eric Helms said this in one of his interviews with Sigma nutrition: trying to stay lean while bulking is probably the biggest thing shortcutting people's results.

Also bulking for too short time periods. The "oh I gained some fat! better start cutting now" mindset. Best thing to do is bulk for periods like 6 months and longer and not worry about gaining some fat. (paraphrasing of course)

[AdamWW]

Eric Helms said this in one of his interviews with Sigma nutrition: trying to stay lean while bulking is probably the biggest thing shortcutting people's results.

Also bulking for too short time periods. The "oh I gained some fat! better start cutting now" mindset. Best thing to do is bulk for periods like 6 months and longer and not worry about gaining some fat. (paraphrasing of course)

Another thing to consider on this same note:

Even if someone did a dirty bulk, say gaining 40lb in their first year, 50/50 split of fat to muscle... that 20lb of muscle took 12 months to gain, whereas you could lose the 20lb of fat gained in under 5 months of cutting, even after making tons of mistakes by overeating.

Perspective.