powder vs real food

[G T]

should powdered meals have any real effects on satiety compared to real food? i sometimes swap protein meals for either egg powder or casein powder, but tend to feel hungrier a lot quicker than when i've eaten a whole food, despite the fact that casein/egg is medium to slow digesting. using powder is much more convenient, but i hate feeling hungry.

anyone have any experiences or explaination for this, and whether or not it is really practical from a health point of view to ditch meat and "real food" for powders such as egg white and milk protein?

[Body_Builder]

Sure, your shake is going to give you the protein you need.....but will it give you everything else? If so, it isn't that bad as long as you don't do it more than once a day imo.

[G T]

as long as you don't do it more than once a day imo.

why do you say that? i believe the egg powder i'm using is pretty much the same as real egg whites, but the thing i can't seem to get past is that powders, even casein, seem to empty from my stomach so fast making me feel hungry only shortly after.

in case anyone's wondering, www.myopure.com.au is my powder source.

[Body_Builder]

I mean if your talking about replacing a whole meal with it. As far as quality of the protein...you should be fine.

[G T]

well it's just the protein i'm talking about swapping. the carbs remain whole foods, and the fat generally comes from olive oil.

[armz_ha]

whole food protein make me fuller....

[ovidiu]

should powdered meals have any real effects on satiety compared to real food? i sometimes swap protein meals for either egg powder or casein powder, but tend to feel hungrier a lot quicker than when i've eaten a whole food, despite the fact that casein/egg is medium to slow digesting. using powder is much more convenient, but i hate feeling hungry.

anyone have any experiences or explaination for this, and whether or not it is really practical from a health point of view to ditch meat and "real food" for powders such as egg white and milk protein?

no. because they arrive in the stomach in liquid form (i.e. shakes), the absorbtion at the intestin level takes alot less time

[scarybubba]

I think he means adding the powder to food so that he eats it like sprinkled? Correct me if im wrong..

[uhockey]

Solid foods, acidic conditions, larger portions, amino acids, and high osmolality delay gastric emptying and increase feelings of satiety. Period.

[G T]

I think he means adding the powder to food so that he eats it like sprinkled? Correct me if im wrong..

nope, i'm talking about entire protein sources coming from powder.

Solid foods, acidic conditions, larger portions, amino acids, and high osmolality delay gastric emptying and increase feelings of satiety. Period.

is satiety the only thing affected by the difference between whole/powder though? does an empty stomach necessarily mean that i've used the food up and now need to eat more, or does it just mean an "empty stomach" and nothing more?

casein is supposedly a very slow absorbing protein, but i'm confused as to whether "absorption" has anything to do with gastric emptying.

[G T]

one other thing - would adding fibre (such as psyllium) to liquid meals help slow them down sufficiently?

[Sixpack]

Well for sanity purposes it would be your best choice, but they are a great replacement for food IMO if you cannot get in a real food meal. Convience is key with many

[uhockey]

is satiety the only thing affected by the difference between whole/powder though? does an empty stomach necessarily mean that i've used the food up and now need to eat more, or does it just mean an "empty stomach" and nothing more?

casein is supposedly a very slow absorbing protein, but i'm confused as to whether "absorption" has anything to do with gastric emptying.

Well, in general, whole foods are much less processed than powders and therefor a better source of minerals, vitamins, phytonutrients, and intangibles that we haven't discovered yet. An empty stomach simply means an empty stomach, in strict terms of fueling your body a calorie is a calorie.

Absorption technically has nothing to do with gastric emptying as gastric emptying is the process by which food passes from the stomach to the duodenum. Absorption occurs all along the small intestine, but primarily in the duodenum (1st part) and the first half of the jejunum (2nd part.) The illeum is mainly for absorption of fat soluble vitamins and the recycling of bile acids.

Casein is considered "slow absorbing" because it actually clots in the stomach thereby delaying gastric emptying. Additionally, the molecular weight is larger than that of whey which slows it's absorption as the small intestine cannot absorb whole proteins but instead di/tri-peptides and single amino acids. It takes longer to cleave the larger molecules and therefore longer to make absorbable.

Regarding your fiber question......fiber increases osmolarity in the stomach and adds to water retention thus delaying gastric emptying. In terms of digestion/absorption it really has no effect other than retaining water in the small intestine lumen and thereby increasing stool bulk.

[tongueincheeeck]

LOL GT, I've read the entire thread and it seems like not one person has given you an answer really even close to what your looking for! You guys all need to look at what hes saying, seriously!

Basically im interested in the same thing, techincally from a protien requirement perspective, theres no difference between eating say ~150g bit of steak, and having a small ~45g CC shake... But after the shake, your left feeling hungry, and feeling hungry can kind of turn into, hey are my muscles getting what they need!? Im hungry right now, will my muscles be ok for the next 2-3 hours?!

It is for this reason (despite pre and pwo, where ppwo comes very soon after pwo) that I never have two liquid meals in a row... I just dont FEEL like these liquid shakes are going to be giving my body what it needs inorder to grow! Althought this is a subject all byitself!

Anyway, I think it has to do with alot of things, like the actual process of eating down a steak releases hormones and enzymes that tell your body your eating, and sorta "turn off" that hunger feeling... In addition its just physical size, look at 150g steak next to your possible 45g shake in 200ml water...! I mean I bet you could get that EXACT same steak, blend it up, and it would not NEARLY fill you up asmuch as if you ate it! THAT could b intersting lol

[ovidiu]

check this article:
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/investigation.php

[tongueincheeeck]

^^If you couldnt be bothered reading it all, atleast checkit out just for the photos!!

[uhockey]

check this article:
http://www.abcbodybuilding.com/investigation.php

Good article but I prefer Par's work over at Avant. Very good information there ovidiu, albeit a bit complicated for the average bb.com poster. Tongueincheek, I directly answered his questions, so I'm not sure what you're asking. If you really want central signaling, check out the above site or wander over to avantlabs and read Par's articles on leptin.

[ovidiu]

Good article but I prefer Par's work over at Avant. Very good information there ovidiu, albeit a bit complicated for the average bb.com poster. Tongueincheek, I directly answered his questions, so I'm not sure what you're asking. If you really want central signaling, check out the above site or wander over to avantlabs and read Par's articles on leptin.

so what you you think about the other nutrition articles from there? (except the dex/malto article which tends to be considered obsolete)

[uhockey]

so what you you think about the other nutrition articles from there? (except the dex/malto article which tends to be considered obsolete)

Like any bodybuilding "science" article, you take the truth mixed with the horse****. We take what works for us and apply it. All in all I'd say their articles are good for the basics, but if you want real hard science stick to pubmed and the like.

[G T]

so i gather that even though liquid meals leave the stomach quicker, they aren't necessarily absorbed quicker, and therefore not necessarily catabolic, and the hunger caused shortly after is more of an illusion rather than an indicator. is this correct?