As someone not fully familar with the story, can someone answer this simple question

[DanteEdmond]

... why exactly did Trump have those documents in his home, relating to nuclear weapons and chit?

I mean regardless of whether the docs were classified or not (i.e. whether he had legal right to have them or not), why did he have them in his house in the first place? Did he want to keep those documents as a souvenir or something? Why not give that chit to the National Archives as soon as he left office

[John L]

I'm not 100% on the details, but I'm pretty sure this particular indictment could have been avoided if he just handed over the documents when asked.

Blumpf is just really stupid srs.

[x-trainer ben]

They were only requested from he and his lawyers how many times?

[Seatard]

In for gwg77 to post his manifesto on how these documents were the key to Trump's multidimensional strategy to root out evil and save the world from destruction.

[newtothesite]

... why exactly did Trump have those documents in his home, relating to nuclear weapons and chit?

I mean regardless of whether the docs were classified or not (i.e. whether he had legal right to have them or not), why did he have them in his house in the first place? Did he want to keep those documents as a souvenir or something? Why not give that chit to the National Archives as soon as he left office

I don't think his motive for them has been identified. Was he planning on selling them for money? Use them as leverage? Who knows? Also, I doubt he will ever confess to why he felt it was necessary to break federal laws like that as he is delusional and narcissistic and believes he is perfect.

[Seatard]

I don't think his motive for them has been identified. Was he planning on selling them for money? Use them as leverage? Who knows? Also, I doubt he will ever confess to why he felt it was necessary to break federal laws like that as he is delusional and narcissistic and believes he is perfect.

Most likely he just thought they were neat.

[Iczer]

Most likely he just thought they were neat.

Cool, so no criminal intent to distribute or anything. If we use Hillary's case a standard for charges, he should be good.

[newtothesite]

Most likely he just thought they were neat.

Based on the sensitive nature of the documents he apparently had, I'd say it's far more likely he knew they had value and he could profit from them. Why else would the Saudis just "give" his son in law $2 billion? Out of the kindness of their Saudi hearts? Now you know that can't be true cuz Saudis have no hearts. What did Jared give them in return?

[Seatard]

Cool, so no criminal intent to distribute or anything. If we use Hillary's case a standard for charges, he should be good.

I'd agree there was probably no criminal intent. If there was it will be extremely difficult to prove and even more difficult to hand out significant punishment.

[TaeBoNinja]

Meanwhile they kept finding classified documents in Biden's home for weeks after he claimed to not have any

[newtothesite]

Meanwhile they kept finding classified documents in Biden's home for weeks after he claimed to not have any

Meanwhile Trump lied about having them, then tried to stonewall investigators, unlike Biden.

[TaeBoNinja]

Meanwhile Trump lied about having them, then tried to stonewall investigators, unlike Biden.

Biden DID lie about having them he said he had no more, and they kept finding.....more

[frankdtank20]

Nobody knows. Nobody knows why Trump, Biden, and other Presidents keep classified documents after they leave office. We know Biden had to turn over documents from a few of his homes so everything about this is bizarro world.

[Austanian]

Typical process for analysts is to just throw the highest classification headers on documents that it could be to avoid getting in trouble for under classifying things.

A lot of Top Secret // SCI // SIGNIT // FIVE EYES documents are stories you can actually read about on the local news.

So with out knowing what was actually contained in the documents no on really knows.

This case is incredibly stupid though. He can easily say on his last day as president he "declared those documents declassified" and he is now g2g. There isn't a process for presidential declassification and he can share whatever he wants to who ever he wants as long as he held the office. If any of those documents came out post presidency there might be some problems.

However, my understanding is that this is common with ALL ex-presidents and standard procedure is to whine about it a little bit.

[x-trainer ben]

Typical process for analysts is to just throw the highest classification headers on documents that it could be to avoid getting in trouble for under classifying things.

A lot of Top Secret // SCI // SIGNIT // FIVE EYES documents are stories you can actually read about on the local news.

So with out know what was actually contained in the documents who really knows.

This case is incredibly stupid though. He can easily say on his last day as president he "declared those documents declassified" and he is now g2g. There isn't a process for presidential declassification and he can share whatever he wants to who ever he wants as long as he held the office. If any of those documents came out post presidency there might be some problems.

However, my understanding is that this is common with ALL ex-presidents and standard procedure is to whine about it a little bit.

So explain this espionage part of the charge?

[Retoaded]

So explain this espionage part of the charge?

Its a bad sounding word is probably the main reason.

[Austanian]

So explain this espionage part of the charge?

Holding the information violates the espionage law even with out intent to distribute.

If the documents were still classified he is in violation of

18 U.S. Code § 793
Section F 2.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793

Note: Pretty much every high end official violates this. As been seen by Bush, Obama, Biden, Hilary... This DA is pursuing this because of politics.

The defense is the same. While president I declared it Unclassified.

[newtothesite]

Biden DID lie about having them he said he had no more, and they kept finding.....more

So did Pence if that's what you want to go with. Pence stated emphatically that he did not have any, then, presto, they find documents.

[newtothesite]

Typical process for analysts is to just throw the highest classification headers on documents that it could be to avoid getting in trouble for under classifying things.

A lot of Top Secret // SCI // SIGNIT // FIVE EYES documents are stories you can actually read about on the local news.

So with out knowing what was actually contained in the documents no on really knows.

This case is incredibly stupid though. He can easily say on his last day as president he "declared those documents declassified" and he is now g2g. There isn't a process for presidential declassification and he can share whatever he wants to who ever he wants as long as he held the office. If any of those documents came out post presidency there might be some problems.

However, my understanding is that this is common with ALL ex-presidents and standard procedure is to whine about it a little bit.

No, groomer, there actually is a process for declassification whether it is done by the president or an agency in charge of classification, such as the CIA. There is a review process, certain information needs to be redacted, and it is published in a specific office and marked "declassified" so that others know its status has been downgraded.

[DanteEdmond]

So did Pence if that's what you want to go with. Pence stated emphatically that he did not have any, then, presto, they find documents.

Pence didn't know, and once he found it, he informed the DOJ right away and cooperated. Trump decided to hide his classified docs and mislead officials

[Iczer]

Pence didn't know, and once he found it, he informed the DOJ right away and cooperated. Trump decided to hide his classified docs and mislead officials

Doesn't matter if you say "oopsies, I didn't know." It's still illegal. Just a heads up.

[DanteEdmond]

Doesn't matter if you say "oopsies, I didn't know." It's still illegal. Just a heads up.

no, the statute has an intent and "knowingly" element:

(a)Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and ... becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1924

[miscinbro]

no, the statute has an intent and "knowingly" element:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1924

Anyone who has even been in a position of any power has probably mishandled a document at some point.

[Austanian]

No, groomer, there actually is a process for declassification whether it is done by the president or an agency in charge of classification, such as the CIA. There is a review process, certain information needs to be redacted, and it is published in a specific office and marked "declassified" so that others know its status has been downgraded.

So you like making stuff up? I have a 10 inch dink and live in a mansion by the beach BTW I am Iron Man. Sooo fun...

For everyone else.

Most departments have a declassification process that was set up by the actual declassification authority. Because the Director of the CIA (a declassification authority) doesn't sit at his desk all day scratching things out. They instead delegate their authority with a set of processes and procedures. These policies and procedures must be used for anyone delegated by the Director of the CIA. The VAST majority of documents declassified go through this process.

The POTUS is not most departments and is a declassification authority he does not need to use the Director of the CIA's processes. He can take a classified document post it on a monitor at the a press briefing and he is g2g. While he is taking a piss by himself in a room he can state "I declare this declassified".

This is why I state that the date of the documents is important. Post presidency he does not have this power.