Low carb diet and belly fat

[WarmupScreamer]

Has anyone here lost excess belly fat via a low carb diet? Nothing excessive, I'm talking about maybe pinching about an inch or two. I've tried going semi low carb (~100 grams / day) and it did nothing for the belly so I decided to dive into a Keto diet. I'm about 6 days in. Energy is low and workouts are hard but I definitely want to stick with it.

I've been lifting for a year and a half now and really want to gain size, but I'm unable to without my gut getting big along with everything else. I don't want to blame my age (43) but it almost seems impossible to lose this excess gut fat without cutting way down on calories and having what muscles I have gained shrink down as well. I've previously lost the gut, but I basically looked like a stick to get to that point. It also seems impossible to eat the slightest bit of carbs without my gut swelling up like it's allergic.

Would appreciate any input.

[wave_length]

On your previous tries, how did you determine that "having what muscles you have gained shrank down as well"?

[WarmupScreamer]

On your previous tries, how did you determine that "having what muscles you have gained shrank down as well"?

No real method, just based on how thin I looked. It's been maybe 6 months since that cut, but I don't really think the weight I could lift dropped much.

[wave_length]

No real method, just based on how thin I looked. It's been maybe 6 months since that cut, but I don't really think the weight I could lift dropped much.

If your strength did not go down, chances are your muscle mass did not go down. For most people, building real muscle mass naturally takes a very long time unfortunally.

[EjnarKolinkar]

Maybe you need to get a better handle on your intake OP so as to manage your body fat level a bit better.

I tend to think folks are having problems looking at themselves objectively when they say that the slightest bit of carbs makes their gut swell up.

If you think you have allergies consider getting some support to rule it out if it wpuld make you feel better.

[SteveEpperson]

Has anyone here lost excess belly fat via a low carb diet? Nothing excessive, I'm talking about maybe pinching about an inch or two. I've tried going semi low carb (~100 grams / day) and it did nothing for the belly so I decided to dive into a Keto diet. I'm about 6 days in. Energy is low and workouts are hard but I definitely want to stick with it.

I've been lifting for a year and a half now and really want to gain size, but I'm unable to without my gut getting big along with everything else. I don't want to blame my age (43) but it almost seems impossible to lose this excess gut fat without cutting way down on calories and having what muscles I have gained shrink down as well. I've previously lost the gut, but I basically looked like a stick to get to that point. It also seems impossible to eat the slightest bit of carbs without my gut swelling up like it's allergic.

Would appreciate any input.

I'm getting really frustrated with all the vilifying of carbohydrates on this forum. I am not blaming you personally. It seems this egregious form of misinformation is still prevalent. This is just leftover crap disseminated from the "low-carb" Adkins era. It's so unfortunate that in 2015, we are still battling with this level of bad advice.

Let's take a step back and discuss what a carbohydrate actually is: CHO. That's it. Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen in varying combinations to make up about 90% of the world's available food supply. Without carbohydrates, we would starve. Our muscles would not function properly, as it is the only source of energy for our muscles, not protein. We would not be able to have enough endurance to get through our workouts without carbohydrates. And yes, they are essential to stored fat metabolism.

To illustrate how important carbohydrates are, we can use the Tour de France. The average cyclist in this grueling event takes in about 3500-4700 KCAL per day. Of that amount, about 70-75% are low-glycemic carbohydrates. Look at these athletes, they have not an ounce of fat on them. Without the carbs, they wouldn't have any muscle either!

If you are worried about carbs, switch to eating brown rice instead of chocolate cake. Yes, chocolate cake is a "carb"-- a very bad one. Also, your meal timing is very important. I don't have enough room here to explain glucose metabolism. Suffice it to say that professional body builders have known for years the secret of tricking the body to releasing stored fat. They use 6-7 well-timed meals throughout the day. In other words, if they are using a 5,000 calorie meal plan for growth, they spread it out over 6-7 smaller meals per day. This way, they avoid insulin spikes and subsequent adipose gain. Is this hard to do? Yes. But that's why they are called professionals.

1. Eat for what you are going to do, not for what you just did.
2. Change to lower glycemic carbs
3. Eat at least four small meals per day.
4. Use 50% carb/30% protein/ and 20% polyunsaturated fats during your building phase. You can tweak these ratios later.
5. Drink massive amounts of water to avoid water retention.
6. Lay off any form of alcohol. It has no place in your training regimen.

I realize I'm coming on a little strong here. That's because I want you to succeed. Let me know if this helps.

[abceasyas123]

When I followed a paleo style diet I was my leanest ever. I ate carbohydrates but they were in the form of sweet potatoes or from natural unprocessed food sources. But I wouldn't recommend going low on carbohydrates, in general.

[JimmyJonny]

Have you tried eating at maintenance ?

[PiperBill]

OP I could have written exactly what you wrote in your first post. I carry a lot of fat around my chest and belly only. I did an aggressive cut earlier this year and lost 25+ lbs but put at least half of it back on in the last 6 months. I was aiming at eating at maintenance after the cut but for me it was like trying to hit a moving target. In my job I can be standing still some days and running around lifting and carrying heavy stuff other days.

I started to think it must be carbs so I emarked on a keto style diet, still aiming at maintenance. After 21 days I'd had enough of the high fat very low carbs regime and I quit. Didn't lose any weight except for the initial water loss.

The last few weeks I have been thinking more about keeping my blood sugar levels stable. That means eating low GI carbs. No sugar or socalled fast carbs. I keep carbs down to a max of 150/day (but aim at around 100) and still aim for maintenance calories/day or slighly below. Eating this way allows me to live a normal life compaired to keto. I have energy for work and in the gym and I just feel good.

It's early days but I feel it's working. My belly is down 1/2 inch after 3 weeks. My weight fluctuates a bit but is on a downward trend. Time will tell :-)

[BuildKing]

I'm getting really frustrated with all the vilifying of carbohydrates on this forum. I am not blaming you personally. It seems this egregious form of misinformation is still prevalent. This is just leftover crap disseminated from the "low-carb" Adkins era. It's so unfortunate that in 2015, we are still battling with this level of bad advice.

Let's take a step back and discuss what a carbohydrate actually is: CHO. That's it. Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen in varying combinations to make up about 90% of the world's available food supply. Without carbohydrates, we would starve. Our muscles would not function properly, as it is the only source of energy for our muscles, not protein. We would not be able to have enough endurance to get through our workouts without carbohydrates. And yes, they are essential to stored fat metabolism.

To illustrate how important carbohydrates are, we can use the Tour de France. The average cyclist in this grueling event takes in about 3500-4700 KCAL per day. Of that amount, about 70-75% are low-glycemic carbohydrates. Look at these athletes, they have not an ounce of fat on them. Without the carbs, they wouldn't have any muscle either!

If you are worried about carbs, switch to eating brown rice instead of chocolate cake. Yes, chocolate cake is a "carb"-- a very bad one. Also, your meal timing is very important. I don't have enough room here to explain glucose metabolism. Suffice it to say that professional body builders have known for years the secret of tricking the body to releasing stored fat. They use 6-7 well-timed meals throughout the day. In other words, if they are using a 5,000 calorie meal plan for growth, they spread it out over 6-7 smaller meals per day. This way, they avoid insulin spikes and subsequent adipose gain. Is this hard to do? Yes. But that's why they are called professionals.

1. Eat for what you are going to do, not for what you just did.
2. Change to lower glycemic carbs
3. Eat at least four small meals per day.
4. Use 50% carb/30% protein/ and 20% polyunsaturated fats during your building phase. You can tweak these ratios later.
5. Drink massive amounts of water to avoid water retention.
6. Lay off any form of alcohol. It has no place in your training regimen.

I realize I'm coming on a little strong here. That's because I want you to succeed. Let me know if this helps.

Im not even going to argue your first part about carbs because it is plain ridicilous, Im just going to ask you one thing, ever heard of keto? People on a keto diet have no carbs yet they manage to have tons of energy thanks to other energy sources, like fat.
So the claim that you make that carbs is the only energy source and the right energy source is unfound and simply untrue.

As for your points:
1.Not completely true, you should eat based on what you do yes, before training its obviously advised to get some energy, but its also important that you eat and what you eat after you train.
2.That doesn't really matter, unless you eat carbs by themselves the difference in GI in foods is very minimal or there is a very little difference, that doesn't mean you should eat whatever carb source you want however, but rather pick carbs based on their nutritional value not GI.
3.Why would you eat small meals, and 4 small meals? In your first point you say you should eat based on what you do, now you say eat 4 small meals, thats contradictory.
4.I would really love to know where you got that 50/30/20 number from.
-Regarding fat, not only is that balance between fats you suggest not optimal at all, I would love to hear you explain how exactly you plan to get 20% polyunsaturated fats and 0% of other fats from your diet?
-Ratio of 30% protein and 50% carbs you say, I would like to hear you advise a 180lbs person exactly how many grams of protein he should take, and then based on that quantity calculate just how many calories aproximetely that would account for based on your protein,carb,fat diet, and see just how much surplus that person would have. Optimal for gaining weight? probably... Optimal for gaining lean muscle while maintaining bodyfat levels? I would strongly argue against it.

5. and 6. are pretty much the only points I agree with.

[ljimd]

Im not even going to argue your first part about carbs because it is plain ridicilous, Im just going to ask you one thing, ever heard of keto? People on a keto diet have no carbs yet they manage to have tons of energy thanks to other energy sources, like fat.
So the claim that you make that carbs is the only energy source and the right energy source is unfound and simply untrue.

agree, good job calling bs here

[1Fuzzy1]

agree, good job calling bs here

This.

OP, don't use your age as an excuse. I am older than you and dropped 30 lbs in the past 2+ years mostly on lower carbs eating 300-500 under maintenance...a lot of it came off my belly too.

I have figured out over the years my body does better when I lower carbs...I know others that respond better to lowering fats. Figure out your own body OP but please don't use age as a crutch.

[ironwill2008]

I'm getting really frustrated with all the vilifying of carbohydrates on this forum. I am not blaming you personally. It seems this egregious form of misinformation is still prevalent. This is just leftover crap disseminated from the "low-carb" Adkins era. It's so unfortunate that in 2015, we are still battling with this level of bad advice.

Let's take a step back and discuss what a carbohydrate actually is: CHO. That's it. Carbon, Hydrogen and Oxygen in varying combinations to make up about 90% of the world's available food supply. Without carbohydrates, we would starve. Our muscles would not function properly, as it is the only source of energy for our muscles, not protein. We would not be able to have enough endurance to get through our workouts without carbohydrates. And yes, they are essential to stored fat metabolism.

To illustrate how important carbohydrates are, we can use the Tour de France. The average cyclist in this grueling event takes in about 3500-4700 KCAL per day. Of that amount, about 70-75% are low-glycemic carbohydrates. Look at these athletes, they have not an ounce of fat on them. Without the carbs, they wouldn't have any muscle either!

If you are worried about carbs, switch to eating brown rice instead of chocolate cake. Yes, chocolate cake is a "carb"-- a very bad one. Also, your meal timing is very important. I don't have enough room here to explain glucose metabolism. Suffice it to say that professional body builders have known for years the secret of tricking the body to releasing stored fat. They use 6-7 well-timed meals throughout the day. In other words, if they are using a 5,000 calorie meal plan for growth, they spread it out over 6-7 smaller meals per day. This way, they avoid insulin spikes and subsequent adipose gain. Is this hard to do? Yes. But that's why they are called professionals.

1. Eat for what you are going to do, not for what you just did.
2. Change to lower glycemic carbs
3. Eat at least four small meals per day.
4. Use 50% carb/30% protein/ and 20% polyunsaturated fats during your building phase. You can tweak these ratios later.
5. Drink massive amounts of water to avoid water retention.
6. Lay off any form of alcohol. It has no place in your training regimen.

I realize I'm coming on a little strong here. That's because I want you to succeed. Let me know if this helps.

Good grief; what a load of nonsense.




You wouldn't be trolling, would you, brah?

[Partyrocking]

If you don't have a food scale, get one. It doesn't really matter if you go low carb or low fat. If you eat too much, you don't lose weight.

[DeviLFisH]

don't drink if you can

anyway it take time and yes long time it can take even 2 years if you want to see real results

[SteveEpperson]

Im not even going to argue your first part about carbs because it is plain ridicilous, Im just going to ask you one thing, ever heard of keto? People on a keto diet have no carbs yet they manage to have tons of energy thanks to other energy sources, like fat.
So the claim that you make that carbs is the only energy source and the right energy source is unfound and simply untrue.

As for your points:
1.Not completely true, you should eat based on what you do yes, before training its obviously advised to get some energy, but its also important that you eat and what you eat after you train.
2.That doesn't really matter, unless you eat carbs by themselves the difference in GI in foods is very minimal or there is a very little difference, that doesn't mean you should eat whatever carb source you want however, but rather pick carbs based on their nutritional value not GI.
3.Why would you eat small meals, and 4 small meals? In your first point you say you should eat based on what you do, now you say eat 4 small meals, thats contradictory.
4.I would really love to know where you got that 50/30/20 number from.
-Regarding fat, not only is that balance between fats you suggest not optimal at all, I would love to hear you explain how exactly you plan to get 20% polyunsaturated fats and 0% of other fats from your diet?
-Ratio of 30% protein and 50% carbs you say, I would like to hear you advise a 180lbs person exactly how many grams of protein he should take, and then based on that quantity calculate just how many calories aproximetely that would account for based on your protein,carb,fat diet, and see just how much surplus that person would have. Optimal for gaining weight? probably... Optimal for gaining lean muscle while maintaining bodyfat levels? I would strongly argue against it.

5. and 6. are pretty much the only points I agree with.

The keto diet-- just like the adkins, south beach, zone diet, paleo diet, mediteranean diet, the cookie diet and all the others-- will eventually fail to live up to to the hype. Only getting the right amount of nutrients at the right time will trigger metabolic changes desirable for burning fat.

As for the comment about polyunsaturated fats, it's true, I should have included the word "mostly."

To your point about meal timing, a 250 lb professional body builder would take in a "small" meal of about 800-1300 KCAL. This could easily sustain him for a 1 hr workout, especially if he were doing two-a-days. A four- meal-a-day plan is just an example for our friend who was struggling to burn fat. It would be much better to have it spread out over 7 meals.

Actually, the glycemic index is important for regulating insulin spikes, which are the bane of the bodybuilder. Also, science has shown that lower glycemic carbs are better for extending the lactate threshold. The muscle's contractile mechanisms become much more resistant to fatigue. There are many other reasons, but I feel this is a pretty good one for body builders.

As to your point about macronutrient ratios, it's just a simple math problem. If he's taking in 2000 calories per day, for example, he would have 1000 calories in low glycemic carbs, 600 calories of lean proteins and the rest in fats such as found in nuts and avocados, etc. It's not like I'm increasing his calorie intake. Food, especially carbohydrates, is what a body builder uses to build his body. Proteins and fats alone are not enough to overcome the time tension index of muscular contractile load.

[SteveEpperson]

Good grief; what a load of nonsense.




You wouldn't be trolling, would you, brah?

Explain.

[DuracellBunny]

Actually, the glycemic index is important for regulating insulin spikes, which are the bane of the bodybuilder. Also, science has shown that lower glycemic carbs are better for extending the lactate threshold. The muscle's contractile mechanisms become much more resistant to fatigue. There are many other reasons, but I feel this is a pretty good one for body builders.

Listed GI values are for an empty stomach. If the stomach contains fat and/or protein, the digestion time for carbs is altered drastically. Unless people are eating only carbs, the GI value isn't particularly important.

Before you start spouting a load more crap, go and talk to any educated diabetic about how different foods affect blood sugar levels and insulin response. There is a hell of a lot more to it that some BS GI value.

[ironwill2008]

Explain.

GI is irrelevant. No one eats a carb food in isolation after fasting for 24 hours.


It's insulin's job to shuttle nutrients into muscle tissue; if it didn't respond, we'd be in big trouble. Also, consider that plain whey protein powder, mixed with nothing but water, will elicit an insulin response. As far as insulin causing "fat gain," if there are no surplus calories consumed, there is nothing left to be stored. The best way to deal with insulin is to simply eat to the day's calorie requirement, and allow the body, which is perfectly capable of processing foods all on it's own, to do it's job.



You statement about eating "6-7 small meals to avoid insulin spikes" is......ironic.


Using percentages to figure macro amounts will produce too much of some, not enough of others. A far more logical approach is to simply go by gram-amounts based on body weight. Sufficiency is then assured.










I'm not sure where you've been getting your information, but it's terribly outdated, and won't be permitted to be spread all over this site. I suggest you go here, do some reading, and get yourself up to speed:

http://alanaragon.com/


http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/





http://weightology.net
More specifically, this explanation of insulin's function:
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319

[WarmupScreamer]

OP I could have written exactly what you wrote in your first post. I carry a lot of fat around my chest and belly only. I did an aggressive cut earlier this year and lost 25+ lbs but put at least half of it back on in the last 6 months. I was aiming at eating at maintenance after the cut but for me it was like trying to hit a moving target. In my job I can be standing still some days and running around lifting and carrying heavy stuff other days.

Hey PiperBill. What you wrote there is almost exactly describes myself as well as my current chain of thought. That's where I store my fat as well. At 5'6" and 150 lbs, I'm not overweight, but if I don't keep the calories in check, you can definitely see a hint of the 'man boobs' if I wear a thin, slightly tight shirt.

Looks like I'm about a year behind your nutritional path. At 7 days into keto I'm also starting to have second thoughts. Mainly because I've got an Army PT test at the end of the month. I know, bad timing but I feel like it would have just been another excuse to hold off until after the PT test. I barely pass the 2 mile run as it is and I really have no idea how keto may affect it. From what I've been researching, it most likely will not be good.

Best of luck with your new diet. 100 grams of carbs sounds like a good number to shoot for with clean sources. Hopefully you'll be down another 1/2 inch in a few weeks.

[ElrondHubbard]

This thread has put me in the mood for chocolate cake.

[BuildKing]

Steve your views are very limited and lack any proof.

There are plenty of bodybuilders that follow a keto diet who are quite big and muscular aswell as lean, and they eat pretty much no carbs, so that alone is proof that carbs are not essential to building muscle.

GI as mentioned is irrelevant when eating carbs with protein and fat.

Your ratios are screwed up aswell, and you contradict yourself yet again, first you advised that you should eat a ratio of 50 carbs 30 protein and 20 fat.
Then you simply use math and say if you eat 2000 calories then 1000 are from carbs 600 from protein and 400 from fat.
Very ignorant of you that you don't even know fat has around twice as many calories as carbs and protein, so with this intake you would probably get around 10% fat, which makes you contradict yourself again.

[MzIrish]

Great thread, but I am more confused now... There is so much information out there it is hard for someone new to understand.

[ironwill2008]

Great thread, but I am more confused now... There is so much information out there it is hard for someone new to understand.

No need for confusion; just figure how many calories per day you need in order to reach your particular goal, then fill those calories with the appropriate amount of protein, fat and carbs. Use a food scale to weigh your portions, and track them on one of the free online tracker sites. Don't neglect daily servings of fruit and veg.

Evaluate where you're at, as opposed to where you want to be, every 3-4 weeks, and make adjustments to your calorie intake accordingly.


Until such time as you decide to prep for a contest, that's as complicated and detailed as it needs to be.






You can find all the info you need to accomplish the above right here:

*Emma Leigh's calorie/macro thread: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=156380183






Be wary of online "trainers" who would bamboozle you with a bunch of irrelevant nonsense, all in an attempt to confuse you to the point where you feel it necessary to hire them for their "advices."

[EjnarKolinkar]

Great thread, but I am more confused now... There is so much information out there it is hard for someone new to understand.

Well, nonsense is confusing, and unfortunately this thread has a lot of it and so does the interwebz at large. And there are a lot of half truths in many statements that make them plausible. Problem is people only have so much time and energy to give. Better to focus that energy on high return items.

Do a google search for Alan Aragon, Eric Helms. Read and watch everything you find. Or visit the sticky topics in the nutrition, or losing fat forums.

[EjnarKolinkar]

The keto diet-- just like the adkins, south beach, zone diet, paleo diet, mediteranean diet, the cookie diet and all the others-- will eventually fail to live up to to the hype. Only getting the right amount of nutrients at the right time will trigger metabolic changes desirable for burning fat.

This is false.

To your point about meal timing, a 250 lb professional body builder would take in a "small" meal of about 800-1300 KCAL. This could easily sustain him for a 1 hr workout, especially if he were doing two-a-days. A four- meal-a-day plan is just an example for our friend who was struggling to burn fat. It would be much better to have it spread out over 7 meals.

This is false.

Actually, the glycemic index is important for regulating insulin spikes, which are the bane of the bodybuilder. Also, science has shown that lower glycemic carbs are better for extending the lactate threshold. The muscle's contractile mechanisms become much more resistant to fatigue. There are many other reasons, but I feel this is a pretty good one for body builders.

This is false.

As to your point about macronutrient ratios, it's just a simple math problem. If he's taking in 2000 calories per day, for example, he would have 1000 calories in low glycemic carbs, 600 calories of lean proteins and the rest in fats such as found in nuts and avocados, etc. It's not like I'm increasing his calorie intake. Food, especially carbohydrates, is what a body builder uses to build his body. Proteins and fats alone are not enough to overcome the time tension index of muscular contractile load.

This is false.


Losing fat isn't complicated, although it may be hard at times. Eating to support training is straightforward as well. There is plenty of room for individual preferences and success to coexist. Dieters primarily fail at diets because they underestimate the amount of fat they need to lose, overestimate their calories needs, or buy into a bunch of nonsense and waste their energy chasing low return nonsense.

[crupiea]

Its seems hard because you arent doing it right.

measure out what you are eating. It only takes a few minutes to do.

Write down everything you eat and you cant fail.

[wave_length]

"The Lean Muscle Diet" by Alan Aragon answers all your questions.

[JayVincent]

Has anyone here lost excess belly fat via a low carb diet? Nothing excessive, I'm talking about maybe pinching about an inch or two. I've tried going semi low carb (~100 grams / day) and it did nothing for the belly so I decided to dive into a Keto diet. I'm about 6 days in. Energy is low and workouts are hard but I definitely want to stick with it.

I've been lifting for a year and a half now and really want to gain size, but I'm unable to without my gut getting big along with everything else. I don't want to blame my age (43) but it almost seems impossible to lose this excess gut fat without cutting way down on calories and having what muscles I have gained shrink down as well. I've previously lost the gut, but I basically looked like a stick to get to that point. It also seems impossible to eat the slightest bit of carbs without my gut swelling up like it's allergic.

Would appreciate any input.

How long did you stick with the diet? You realize this doesnt happen over night right?

say you need to lose 20 lbs of body fat. there are 3500 calories in a pound of body fat. 3500 x 20(lbs) = 70,000 calories of body fat needs to be lost. If you eat 500 calories below your BMR (basal metabolic rate) it will take you 140 days to lose that fat.

This takes TIME

[Vidya46]

How long did you stick with the diet? You realize this doesnt happen over night right?

say you need to lose 20 lbs of body fat. there are 3500 calories in a pound of body fat. 3500 x 20(lbs) = 70,000 calories of body fat needs to be lost. If you eat 500 calories below your BMR (basal metabolic rate) it will take you 140 days to lose that fat.

This takes TIME

Wow..Thanks for that reality-setting-numbers..Been at losing the belly fat for a few weeks and am not surprised that the journey is longer than initially visualized in my mind.
(like get ripped before new years or something)..

Cheers