Ab Training Frustration

[jrw77]

I train my Abs specifically 3 times a week, and I have a dedicated workout routine that I perform which I have been doing for about 3 months now. Also I have been watching my diet very closely to ensure i'm hitting the right Macros, around 3000 calories a day. I'm getting frustrated as i'm not really seeing the results I would like to. I do have some loose skin from when I was heavy so that is part of the issue, but I feel that there should be more defininition. I am thinking that I may be overtraining as it's 11 exercises, 3 sets each, and range from 10 to 15 reps. Should I reduce it and maybe do more focused training with weights worked in with it? Below is my workout....

- Decline Crunch
- Decline Reverse Crunch
- SEATED FLAT BENCH LEG PULL-IN
- FLAT BENCH LYING LEG RAISE
- EXERCISE BALL PULL-IN
- EXERCISE BALL ROLLOUT
- SPIDER CRAWL
- PLATE TWIST
- SPELL CASTER
- DECLINE OBLIQUE CRUNCH
- DUMBBELL SIDE BEND
- Alternating Plank

I'm thinking to reduce it to...

- Decline Crunch
- Decline Reverse Crunch
- Bottoms Up
- SPIDER CRAWL
- PLATE TWIST
- DECLINE OBLIQUE CRUNCH
- DUMBBELL SIDE BEND
- Alternating Plank

Appreciate any input on this. The rest of me is transforming as I would expect so this is the only area that I am frustrated with.

[MissHolly]

I train my Abs specifically 3 times a week, and I have a dedicated workout routine that I perform which I have been doing for about 3 months now. Also I have been watching my diet very closely to ensure i'm hitting the right Macros, around 3000 calories a day. I'm getting frustrated as i'm not really seeing the results I would like to. I do have some loose skin from when I was heavy so that is part of the issue, but I feel that there should be more defininition. I am thinking that I may be overtraining as it's 11 exercises, 3 sets each, and range from 10 to 15 reps. Should I reduce it and maybe do more focused training with weights worked in with it? Below is my workout....

- Decline Crunch
- Decline Reverse Crunch
- SEATED FLAT BENCH LEG PULL-IN
- FLAT BENCH LYING LEG RAISE
- EXERCISE BALL PULL-IN
- EXERCISE BALL ROLLOUT
- SPIDER CRAWL
- PLATE TWIST
- SPELL CASTER
- DECLINE OBLIQUE CRUNCH
- DUMBBELL SIDE BEND
- Alternating Plank

I'm thinking to reduce it to...

- Decline Crunch
- Decline Reverse Crunch
- Bottoms Up
- SPIDER CRAWL
- PLATE TWIST
- DECLINE OBLIQUE CRUNCH
- DUMBBELL SIDE BEND
- Alternating Plank

Appreciate any input on this. The rest of me is transforming as I would expect so this is the only area that I am frustrated with.

I wouldn't say overtraining, more like overkill. Are you doing any heavy compound exercises? Squat, Deadlift, Bent over Row? These will work your abs, too.

I don't know if you're eating at maintenance, trying to bulk or cut. If you're trying to cut, then you may not have the muscle there to show definition in your abs. Eating in a surplus will help build the ab muscles, then cut down again to reveal them.

This takes time. I've been training for 3 years and still haven't seen my abs. I'm hoping this year will be my year

[jrw77]

I guess when I was putting it together I was thinking more is better but the more I train and more I read it's the opposite in most cases. I also do Squats, Deadlifts, Rows, Press, etc... with my other days. I'm trying to eat to gain, really hard as i'm going from being 247 to 153 in the past years by cutting back and now up to 161 and trying to eat to gain. I guess I just need to relax and enjoy myself and things will come when they do.

[MissHolly]

Yep, there's nothing wrong with doing dedicated ab work, you just don't need THAT much

Sounds like you're on the right track, just don't gain too fast and you're good.

[PersonaNonGrata]

Deadlifts are about the best thing. As are isometric holds, eg; the L-seat position (on rings or dip bars)

The only dedicated ab work i do other than isometric stuff is weighted leg raises (dumbbell between the feet). The mistake everyone makes is to do volume. Low rep and heavy is the way.

[silverlightning]

you just need one exercise that targets the upper/lower and the obliques. get rid of the DB side bends and do some broom stick twists, i.e. bar on your back and twist to the left and right and vice versa.

[DocHoss]

Abs are a muscle and need to be trained like one IMO.

Some people respond well to volume, but I suspect you have volume rather than intensity. Are you really feeling the exercises and struggling to finish your sets, or just going through the motions?

Deadlifts are about the best thing. As are isometric holds, eg; the L-seat position (on rings or dip bars)

The only dedicated ab work i do other than isometric stuff is weighted leg raises (dumbbell between the feet). The mistake everyone makes is to do volume. Low rep and heavy is the way.

My only ab work is weighted ab raises like PersonaNonGrata and rope crunches (cable station), both with weights heavy enough to limit me to no more than 12-15 reps. That seems to be working well for me, and I think way more effective than endless sit-ups.

[jrw77]

I really appreciate everybody's response. I'm going solo on this adventure so it's nice to have a sounding board to see what I may be doing wrong or need to improve. I feel that with some changes (and taking a week off to regroup) may be just what I need to kick-start myself again.



MissHolly - Thanks for the encouragement. I guess i'm just trying to move to fast and need to realize that it takes time.

PersonaNonGrata - That was my thought as well, treat them like I would my Biceps or Shoulders, use weight and the same idea for rep

silverligning - I'm limited to the equipment I have at home which consists of a bench and dumbbells. I though the DB bends would be good for my obliques along with the crunches.

DocHoss - I do feel the exercises and struggle to finish the last rep or set many times. I think i'm on the right track just need to simplify my approach, increase resistance, and focus on form more than quantity of exercises.

[EB68]

You said you were eating to gain weight. Your Abs will be less visible as you gain weight, and you will have to wait until you cut back the fat to see them again. Some people have to be very low on body fat to see them where others who are more developed overall will see them at a higher bodyfat percentage. In my experience the more muscle you put on your frame the better your abs will be regardless of whether you work them directly or not. I do one or two Ab exercises a week, but I do lots of compound lifts that work them indirectly.

[Jbizzlechizzle]

You said you were eating to gain weight. Your Abs will be less visible as you gain weight, and you will have to wait until you cut back the fat to see them again. Some people have to be very low on body fat to see them where others who are more developed overall will see them at a higher bodyfat percentage. In my experience the more muscle you put on your frame the better your abs will be regardless of whether you work them directly or not. I do one or two Ab exercises a week, but I do lots of compound lifts that work them indirectly.

^^^This. I do zero direct ab work, typically. Your abs are going to show by doing heavy compounds and reducing your overall body fat %. Some direct ab work is fine, but you're probably doing too much. Use deadlifts and squats and, if desired, weighted sit ups in the 5-10 rep range and see how that works for you. You might want to think about eating less as well if you want to see progress in your abs. Try eating at maintenance for a few weeks and see what that does for you. You can't have it both ways on your bulk. As you get heavier, your abs will get a bit "softer".

[Casedogg43]

You are eating 3000 calories a day??
You weight 160 lbs?

[EB68]

You are eating 3000 calories a day??
You weight 160 lbs?

I got down to 8% BF eating 3600 calories per day. Everyone is different on how many calories they need to maintain, lose or gain weight.

[anonymous]

I've maybe done ten sets of ab work in the last decade

Never really got why people obsess over it? Spot reduction myth dies hard?

[Mark1T]

On Mondays I do 4 sets of leg raises and on Thursday I do 4 sets of cable crunches. Basically, a little less than any other muscle group.

On most days except on weekends, I train abs in the kitchen.

OP, in about 10 years, you will then have enough experience to look back and ask yourself WTF you were doing.

[JerryB]

What you are doing makes no sense. You are failing to realize the abs will hypertrophy with weigh training. Two to three exercises for abs is all you need.
I suggest an exercise such as rope crunches with resistance to limit the reps to 10-12 and hanging leg raises with a dumbbell between the thighs again with resistance to limit reps to 10-12.
The final exercise could be planks.

[mtpockets]

You said you were eating to gain weight. Your Abs will be less visible as you gain weight, and you will have to wait until you cut back the fat to see them again. Some people have to be very low on body fat to see them where others who are more developed overall will see them at a higher bodyfat percentage. In my experience the more muscle you put on your frame the better your abs will be regardless of whether you work them directly or not. I do one or two Ab exercises a week, but I do lots of compound lifts that work them indirectly.

Gold

[angrypenguin54]

Sounds like you went through some massive weight loss.

First of all, awesome work! You have got through a lot of the misery and now get to do some of the fun stuff.

My guess is that your body is lacking overall muscle mass. I would forget about everything for the next year except for just getting strong. Get on a solid beginner program that focuses on compound barbell lift with a solid progression plan.

You spend time and dedication to lose the fat, put the same time and dedication to build a foundation of muscle and the rest will come.

[Casedogg43]

I got down to 8% BF eating 3600 calories per day. Everyone is different on how many calories they need to maintain, lose or gain weight.

My comment was based on the fact that the OP has only been working out for 3 months and following a 3000 calorie intake. Add that to the fact that He's Frustrated by his lack of progress.
Add that to the fact that he said he's lost a weight and has loose skin.

Summarize that he's 171lbs and is MOST LIKELY not on a calorie deficit based on the OP's statements.

You personally can eat 3600 and drop fat, guessing you have trained a lot and for a while, and know what nutrition and supplements work for you. Everyone is different, but trial and error means you have to mix it up. Which is what I suggested.

[4one]

I've been doing about 50-70 leg raises every other day for about 2 months
almost with planks and sit-ups

Would one say that's overkill?

In the beginning....I could barely do 5 raises LOL
so progressing to about 70...I considered "good"

but what so I know....

[MissHolly]

I've been doing about 50-70 leg raises every other day for about 2 months
almost with planks and sit-ups

Would one say that's overkill?

In the beginning....I could barely do 5 raises LOL
so progressing to about 70...I considered "good"

but what so I know....

There is nothing wrong with that...

Or this...





And there is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with this:



Just don't neglect the rest of your body, that's all

Great job on the progress.

[mcbourque]

A lot of advanced people will do minimal ab work because they are experienced at activating their abdominal wall while doing compound lifts.

So while you don't want the overkill, at the start, you may want to include some ab work to learn how the abs work and really work on your mind-muscle connection. A lot of your ab work target the rectus abdomimus and obliques, but what you really want to target also is your tranverse, which runs under the long rectus abdomimus and will pull everything in, which is good for both esthetics and structural strength.

For the transverse, you basically just want to "suck in" your stomach with each lift (especially in a compound lift, like squats, deadlifts, rows, etc.) You want to pretend that you are pulling your belly button inward to your spine, so your torso is rock solid.

Look up "vacuum pump" exercises.

Once you know how to activate properly all your core muscles, you can pretty much eliminate the direct ab work.

This will give you proper posture. Then for the ripple look, you'll need to worry about your body fat composition.

Good luck and congrats on the loss so far

[TCO76]

after fighting a lower back injury for the last 8 months, I cannot cosign compound lifts being all you need to have a strong core. Isolation work is beyond important as we get older, for overall well being and proper lumbar support. Without it you can kiss any heavy lifting goodbye.
I learned this the hard way and yes I am sure I did something wrong. Now, in the rehab phase it is all I hear and am told by everyone. Core work. And since I can't do the heavy compounds until I am fit to do so, I conclude that developing a strong core is far more important than jumping into heavy compounds as means of core strength. You have to be your own advocate in this game.
No different than listening to the IIFYM and eating mostly **** then getting your blood panels done and finding out your toxic from a lack of Micronutrients......
duh....

[InternetTuffGuy]

My comment was based on the fact that the OP has only been working out for 3 months and following a 3000 calorie intake. Add that to the fact that He's Frustrated by his lack of progress.
Add that to the fact that he said he's lost a weight and has loose skin.

Summarize that he's 171lbs and is MOST LIKELY not on a calorie deficit based on the OP's statements.

You personally can eat 3600 and drop fat, guessing you have trained a lot and for a while, and know what nutrition and supplements work for you. Everyone is different, but trial and error means you have to mix it up. Which is what I suggested.

I think you were pretty spot on Case. OP is 160 lbs. and eating 3k calories. Never mind the insane volume on abs but the majority of people aren't going to see much abdominal development when they're gaining weight with those stats.

Dropping to 8% BF on 3600 calories at 170ish isn't typical. I will just leave it at that.

[steveh5200]

As another poster mentioned. Train abs like your other muscles with heavy weight. Plus I agree you don't need that much volume of sets/exercises, for whatever my opinion is worth. A good exercise is to grab a couple dumbbells and hit the decline bench. A dumbbell or heavy ball between your ankles on the roman chair is good too.

I've yet to see any of the guys in the gym doing a million reps of ab work have good results. Of course the key to a good rack of abs is low body fat, everyone has abs under there somewhere.

I train my Abs specifically 3 times a week, and I have a dedicated workout routine that I perform which I have been doing for about 3 months now. Also I have been watching my diet very closely to ensure i'm hitting the right Macros, around 3000 calories a day. I'm getting frustrated as i'm not really seeing the results I would like to. I do have some loose skin from when I was heavy so that is part of the issue, but I feel that there should be more defininition. I am thinking that I may be overtraining as it's 11 exercises, 3 sets each, and range from 10 to 15 reps. Should I reduce it and maybe do more focused training with weights worked in with it? Below is my workout....

- Decline Crunch
- Decline Reverse Crunch
- SEATED FLAT BENCH LEG PULL-IN
- FLAT BENCH LYING LEG RAISE
- EXERCISE BALL PULL-IN
- EXERCISE BALL ROLLOUT
- SPIDER CRAWL
- PLATE TWIST
- SPELL CASTER
- DECLINE OBLIQUE CRUNCH
- DUMBBELL SIDE BEND
- Alternating Plank

I'm thinking to reduce it to...

- Decline Crunch
- Decline Reverse Crunch
- Bottoms Up
- SPIDER CRAWL
- PLATE TWIST
- DECLINE OBLIQUE CRUNCH
- DUMBBELL SIDE BEND
- Alternating Plank

Appreciate any input on this. The rest of me is transforming as I would expect so this is the only area that I am frustrated with.

[DocHoss]

I've been doing about 50-70 leg raises every other day for about 2 months
almost with planks and sit-ups

Would one say that's overkill?

In the beginning....I could barely do 5 raises LOL
so progressing to about 70...I considered "good"

but what so I know....

I would say this means they are too easy for you and it's time to be doing weighted leg raises. They need to be hard.

[jrw77]

Thanks for all the feedback. Given my work schedule i'm not able to hit the Gym every day so i'm working on building out my home Gym with limited space. From all the responses it seems that a collective is there is no need for direct Ab training, however that doesn't always seem to be the norm. What i'm going to do is get more focused on my how i'm training, not how much. I have also been doing quit a bit of reading on am going to work on refining my training program in the coming weeks.

I also feel that from what i'm reading that i'm trying to combine 2 things into one, gaining mass and cutting. After doing some research is where I came to the caloric intake to help gain mass. I'm seeing the results there as i'm going up in weight and size but not gaining fat (at least visible). In fact it seems that i'm still loosing some fat. I'm going to take all the suggestions into consideration and right now just focus on the building process. I want to build the size and then when i'm happy start cutting back on the intake to start cutting and showing the progress.

I just also wanted to say that for a beginner you guys are a lot of help. I'm going at this solo so I have been spending a lot of time researching and asking for candid feedback, which is what i just got here. Please, keep it coming.

[JerryB]

The following may be useful:

The Very Best Exercises For Sixpack Abs and a Powerful Midsection

http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2011...abdominis.html

[4one]

I would say this means they are too easy for you and it's time to be doing weighted leg raises. They need to be hard.

Thanks....
my friend suggested adding weights also...
and now you co-signing it.......I'll take your advice :-)