Negative Effects of high-volume accessories for strength training?

[ForeverPulling]

I'm still following Madcows 5x5 assistance, but I'm just generally interested.

Does doing more volume make gaining strength slower?

Some people tell me that doing 4 sets of curls 3x/week and extra sets of incline/close-grip/decline bench press will do no harm to your main bench press, same as doing loads of leg press and leg extension and hamstring curls.

Then you get these minimalist guys who literally will just do, Bench/Squat/Deadlift/OHP+ maybe ab work, rear-delts and some tricep lockout work.

So, in general, does adding extra **** like curls and lateral raises take away strength from your main lifts when strength training?

Obviously these will help you build size, just wondered for purely strength.

[SquinkysGhost]

No everything you do will probably only make you more of a complete athlete and make you stronger in the process. In a form of analogy: Is it in any way plausible that sprinters never run slow or marathon runners never run fast? The same goes for strength training. Being too specific is as bad as not being specific enough.

[baxtej44]

do accessory work.

[ForeverPulling]

do accessory work.

Hmm... my first plan had way too much accessory work, I know I could've cut most of this out:

Madcows 5x5:

Friday:
Squat: ME 1x5
Bench: ME 1x5
Row: ME 1x5
Glute Ham Raise:: 3x8-12
Lateral Raise: 2x12-15
Calf Raise: 3x10-12
Weighted AB Rollouts: 4x10-12

Sunday:
DL: 1x5
MP: 1x5
Front Squat: 3x6 (not too hard)
Weighted Dips: 3x6-8
Facepull: 3x12-15
Reverse Curls: 2x12-15
Shrugs: 2x20+
Calf Raise: 3x10-12

Tuesday:
Squat: 1x3/8
Bench: 1x3/8
Weighted Chins 5x5+
Glute Ham Raise: 3x8-12
Incline Db Bench: 3x8-12
Skullcrusher: 3x8-12
Curls: 3x8-12
Ab Rollouts: 4x10-12

[CurltonBench]

why dont you try for yourself and find out brah...if you eat and sleep enough it will benefit you.

[tom11]

So, in general, does adding extra **** like curls and lateral raises take away strength from your main lifts when strength training?

Please use your common sense. The answer to this question is too obvious.

[NorthStrong]

High volume does wonders for a lot of people that are in a rut, gets their lifts moving again by building muscle. Big part of Brandon Lilly's "Cube Method". So long as the assistance isn't taking away from the main lifts in terms of recovery i.e triceps too sore to bench decently because you did 5x20 the other day on them or something like that. As long as you can recover, you're fine.

Not so sure about how the template you posted will work, since there are multiple main, big exercises in that workout, while the programs that have a lot of assistance movements are generally based around 1 main lift per day.

[SovietPrime]

depends on your work capacity (conditioning) and the way you've periodized your training. Some have successfully managed to integrate high volume hypertrophy training with strength training without killing themselves. What you must understand is that, strength training (squats, benches, deads, OHP etc.) on low reps and high intensity pounds your CNS while high volume and low intensity training (hypertrophy goals) tire you physically but not as much neurally.

An idea is that you periodize your training in phases. For example, you do neurally taxing workouts (pure strength training of low volume and high intensity) one week, then switch to hypertrophy training to unload your CNS and build your muscles (which you should be doing, even as a powerlifter). You can alternate between these phases. This is just an idea; you're free to customize your training in accordance with your needs and desires.

Hope this helped!
SovietPrime

[mattdajani]

You can do any amount of work that you are able to recover from. You're not going to tax yourself with some accessory work unless you're being stupid about it. I also don't think many people would consider 3-4 sets being high volume unless you're a complete beginner. On the other end of the spectrum if you are a minimalist and you only do the big compound movements you are neglecting the smaller movements that will keep your joints in good shape. If anything accessory work should be done for that reason alone.

[BTBAM]

IMO it is important to include this work in order to overreach without overly taxing your body using compounds, and then strategically cut out the extra accessory work leading up to competitions, favoring only weakness addressing movements during the last four or so weeks.

[JayLay1234]

Nice thread!

[ForeverPulling]

Please use your common sense. The answer to this question is too obvious.

I honestly don't know. One side of me thinks that if you stay a few reps shy of failure, 6 or 7 sets of isolations (unnecessary ones) wont do much harm.

Then a second side looks at these minimalist guys who do like 6 movements and thinks that perhaps it will just take focus away from the key lifts.

Good responses guys, thanks.

[tom11]

I honestly don't know. One side of me thinks that if you stay a few reps shy of failure, 6 or 7 sets of isolations (unnecessary ones) wont do much harm.

Then a second side looks at these minimalist guys who do like 6 movements and thinks that perhaps it will just take focus away from the key lifts.

Good responses guys, thanks.

Who are those minimalists? Elite powerlifters do accessory and isolation lifts, Lilliebridge does legcurls and upright rows, Spoto does pushdowns.

Train your whole body, if you don't later you will regret it.

[ForeverPulling]

Who are those minimalists? Elite powerlifters do accessory and isolation lifts, Lilliebridge does legcurls and upright rows, Spoto does pushdowns.

Train your whole body, if you don't later you will regret it.

Yeah but they do far less, often just: Glute Ham Raise, Rack Pulls, Goodmornings, CBGP, maybe some board presses and facepulls. Whereas other guys, often weaker, say you can do more than that and actually incorporate hypertrophy work.

I am gonna train my whole body, was just interested on opinion.

[sharkweek50]

Part of that has to do with how much work they put into the main exercise.

Who is hitting their legs harder here:

average gym bro workout:
squats:
135 x 5, 185 x 5, 225 x 5, 275 x 3 x 5

leg press for 3 sets of 10
leg extensions for 3 sets of ten

Elite level powerlifter:
squats:
135 x 5
225 x 5
315 x 5
405 x 3
495 x 3
545 3 x 3


So first guy did 60 reps of accessory work, while second guy did none. Yet, I think the second guy probably stimulated his muscles more, and this seems like a fairly minimalist warmup template for the second guy.