Female MISC: What does you mean by "treat me like a lady" ?

[SheHadMANHands]

Genuinely curious... we men hear/see this all the time and I never quite understood it. I've inquired with a few girls before about it and they seemed clueless (maybe it's just fun to say??)..

So what does it mean!? You certainly never hear a man say "treat me like a gentleman", or something along these lines. My guess is that it's generally a statement implying that one does not want to "get played", or interested "in games", and perhaps has been victim of such occurrences too often in the past. This is understandable of course.

BUT I have an inclination it has some "chivalrous undertones" as well (at least sometimes when it is stated). It's perplexing a bit in modern times, considering how chivalry is all but dead (thank you new feminism :P ) and my generation, both males and females, seem hopeless at ever understanding this "lost art". This sort of "treat me like a lady" line seems like a clear example.

[latebloomingmom]

treat me like a lady...means showing dignity, respect and using manners..
it does not mean do this for me because I am a girl. This is part of being a gentlman. It may mean opening a door for her. It always means listening to her when she speaks to you even if you do not agree with it. It is the man that offers his arm to his lady as she is walking down the sidewalk in heels. It is the man that goes and gets the car and pulls up to the door so that she does not get too wet from the rain. He does not degrade her in front of his friends...he never puts down his woman in order to build himself up in the eyes of his friends.

now I was also raised with the other half of this statement
which means..if you expect to be treated like a lady then you must first act like one..

[SheHadMANHands]

Now I was also raised with the other half of this statement
which means..if you expect to be treated like a lady then you must first act like one..

Please... continue.

What does it mean, then, to "be a lady" in modern society? These seem like difficult questions.. particularly in today's world, with the neutering, if you will, of the male archetype, and disassociation of natural gender roles.

With this disassociation, and as it continues forward toward some ultimate "equality of the sexes", I think many men are confused further by these sort of concepts such as "being a gentleman", "being a lady", etc, as they simply lose all meaning in a society void of gender association and so forth.. At some point there would be no more logic for treating a lady in a uniquely respectable manner (opening doors, etc) than the exact opposite being true (women opening doors for men, etc).

[Miranda]

it's more cultural than anything. i'm originally from scandinavia where equality between the sexes seems to be a bit more advanced than elsewhere. it never occurred to me i *should* behave in a certain 'ladylike' way, or claim specific treatment based on my supposed ladylike-ness.

a guy i dated for a while would routinely open the door for me whilst saying 'ladies first'. now, of course i said thank you and i did appreciate the gesture, sort of . . . but no more than that i thought i was able to open the darn door myself, but thank you for making an effort.

my BF does small stuff like open the passenger door and it's affectionate and cute and all that. i open doors for him, too

i guess i just don't see what the 'big deal' about 'ladylike' is. if they deserve it, people should be treated with respect and kindness. i don't see what one's sex has to do with it.

[SheHadMANHands]

it's more cultural than anything. i'm originally from scandinavia where equality between the sexes seems to be a bit more advanced than elsewhere. it never occurred to me i *should* behave in a certain 'ladylike' way, or claim specific treatment based on my supposed ladylike-ness.

You ARE a lady though, right?

[SheHadMANHands]

it's more cultural than anything. i'm originally from scandinavia where equality between the sexes seems to be a bit more advanced than elsewhere. it never occurred to me i *should* behave in a certain 'ladylike' way, or claim specific treatment based on my supposed ladylike-ness.

a guy i dated for a while would routinely open the door for me whilst saying 'ladies first'. now, of course i said thank you and i did appreciate the gesture, sort of . . . but no more than that i thought i was able to open the darn door myself, but thank you for making an effort.

my BF does small stuff like open the passenger door and it's affectionate and cute and all that. i open doors for him, too

And this isn't so much related to equality of the sexes, as opposed to a shift toward gender disassociation. I think everyone accepts and endorses equal treatment/opportunity/etc under the law in this day and age. The shift toward gender disassociation though, and the corresponding confusion that now follows from phrases such as "treat me like a lady", is the root matter as it goes beyond equating the well-being of men and women to attempting to imply that we are all the exact same (instinctively, physically, psychologically, etc) and should act accordingly. On this sort of "level playing ground" where a "woman can be a man" and a "man can be a woman" there is no room for ladies or no room for gentlemen.

i guess i just don't see what the 'big deal' about 'ladylike' is. if they deserve it, people should be treated with respect and kindness. i don't see what one's sex has to do with it.

Of course nobody debates that people should be, generally, treated with respect and kindness. I'm speaking specifically about special treatment that is traditionally rooted in male/female roles.. not whether one is entitled to be an ******* to someone because they are a woman.

[Rasc170]

IT MEANS treat me nice when we're around other people, but when we're alone, please pull my hair and cum on my face

[Miranda]

You ARE a lady though, right?

i wouldn't know. my mother never told me i should/should not behave in X, Y or Z type manner because that is/isn't ladylike.

i've read about it though. don't wear a low-cut top, and always let a man believe he is smarter than you. wear stockings and wear red lipstick and be mysterious. that sort of thing.

And this isn't so much related to equality of the sexes, as opposed to a shift toward gender disassociation. I think everyone accepts and endorses equal treatment/opportunity/etc under the law in this day and age. The shift toward gender disassociation though, and the corresponding confusion that now follows from phrases such as "treat me like a lady", is the root matter as it goes beyond equating the well-being of men and women to attempting to imply that we are all the exact same (instinctively, physically, psychologically, etc) and should act accordingly. On this sort of "level playing ground" where a "woman can be a man" and a "man can be a woman" there is no room for ladies or no room for gentlemen.

huh?

i don't think men and women are the same physically, emotionally, psychologically or what have you. we're very different in several aspects. that doesn't mean one is 'better' than the other, and would deserve white-glove treatment as a default.

regardless, i'd say men have a biological tendency to view women as 'property' of sorts and hence want to protect that what 'belongs' to them. likewise, women like to feel protected. it runs deep on both sides, and it makes relationships particularly charming

but that's not the same as treating women like a princess on a pea, just because.

[SheHadMANHands]

i wouldn't know. my mother never told me i should/should not behave in X, Y or Z type manner because that is/isn't ladylike.

i've read about it though. don't wear a low-cut top, and always let a man believe he is smarter than you. wear stockings and wear red lipstick and be mysterious. that sort of thing.

Please produce the source... I'd like to read it too!

No one should tell you to act in X/Y/Z way because it is "lady-like", as you say. That being said, there is no rational reason I can see why a male and a female, with different biological tendencies as you note, wouldn't naturally be inclined to act differently in certain situations. There is nothing wrong with this, nor any rational reason to feel defensive for being different from the opposite sex. Neither is better obviously (and a rather childish argument this would be), but they certainly aren't equal (by the very definition).

regardless, i'd say men have a biological tendency to view women as 'property' of sorts and hence want to protect that what 'belongs' to them. likewise, women like to feel protected. it runs deep on both sides, and it makes relationships particularly charming

Source again?

I get the door for women/etc. While on occasion I'm not sure exactly why (aside from the obvious), I can tell you it isn't rooted in some sort of cynical conception that I own a woman, or that my companions have been my 'property'. I'd be very interested in how you've come to some of your opinions here.

[Miranda]

No one should tell you to act in X/Y/Z way because it is "lady-like"

see also: a gazillion threads on this forum about women not being 'feminine' if they lift weights/fart/don't wear make-up/make faces when lifting et cetera.

most of it is inherent to cultural values and norms. they're handed down to everyone within a given cultural setting and accepted as some kind of universal 'truth'.

Neither is better obviously (and a rather childish argument this would be), but they certainly aren't equal (by the very definition).

hum. i think we're at risk of confusing definitions here. men and women are of equal worth, yet quite different. different sides to the same coin, if you ask me.

and it's not that 'a woman is different from a man' you know. a man is different from a woman

i don't know, claiming 'ladylike' treatment specifically makes me think the woman herself somehow feels she is 'lesser' than a man and hence must receive special attention. opening a door really shouldn't be too much of a task, no? [not accounting for carrying heavy groceries and other self-explanatories.]

i can see how some branches of feminism befuddled a lot of things for everyone, too. although it must be said that if a woman sees anything nice done to her by a man as misogynistic and condescending then, apparently, she doesn't think that much of her own worth in the first place.

bla bla bla. just do nice things to each other, folks. it shouldn't have to be more complicated than that.

[SheHadMANHands]

Dilemma:

Imagine the Titanic disaster occurs tomorrow... same disaster, same number of rescue boats, etc. Is it still women and children first, or every man, woman, and child for themselves now?

And what does this have to do with the 'property' mentality, if one so existed? Were we, as men, simply attempting that fateful morning to save our 'cargo'?

[LunicaAshes]

I don't use this terminology. People should treat each other with respect as human beings, not based on gender.

[skybluefran]

I don't really here girls saying "treat me like a lady" i here, "i want a man that will treat me like a lady".. and its usually those who have no self-respect.

I am a firm believer that you should treat others how you want to be treated, and if your not treating your otherhalf with the respect then he shouldn't be treating you like wise or "like a lady".

[latebloomingmom]

Please... continue.

What does it mean, then, to "be a lady" in modern society? These seem like difficult questions.. particularly in today's world, with the neutering, if you will, of the male archetype, and disassociation of natural gender roles.

With this disassociation, and as it continues forward toward some ultimate "equality of the sexes", I think many men are confused further by these sort of concepts such as "being a gentleman", "being a lady", etc, as they simply lose all meaning in a society void of gender association and so forth.. At some point there would be no more logic for treating a lady in a uniquely respectable manner (opening doors, etc) than the exact opposite being true (women opening doors for men, etc).

if you mean are we actually capable of becoming truly equal...erasing all gender roles? hmm. to demand equal pay for equal work is equality in the workplace...to erase the glass ceiling and to erase the stigma attached for men to enter a female dominated profession such as nursing..these things are good and I hope that they do occur within my lifetime. I would love to see more men teaching at the elementary levels.
If however, what you are driving at is that in order to be accepted in this world..young women are forgetting how to act like young ladies..or that they are no longer being taught these lessons..I would tend to agree..that many young women believe that in order to be accepted they must give up their own feminity and act more like men.
examples:
1) when I was a young girl I was taught how to sit when wearing a skirt or a dress..feet crossed at the ankle..never sit like a 'truck driver' with your legs apart..not ladylike
2)never emit bodily noises in public..burping or flatulance is very unladylike. I am not sure if this holds true anymore.
3) when you walk in heels..you practice how to do this with grace..up and down the hallway of your home..up and down stairs and then out on the driveway until you can walk in them effortlessly.
4)you wear make-up to enhance your beauty...it should not look like a Halloween mask
5)you use manners when dinning in public.
6)to say please and thank you and apologize when you have wronged someone
7) and then there is this one...a lady avoids conflict and does not raise her voice..but always tries to speak in a calm and soothing tone of voice. this one may have to be overlooked if a female is working in a very aggressive work atmosphere and holds a position of authority then it becomes necessary at times to be verbal and outspoken.
8) a lady does not curse
9) a lady cares about her appearance
10)a lady does not make a fool of herself in public

[UnaChispita]

OP
Latebloomingmom speaks TRUTH.

Ah, yes, gender role confusion.

I agree with the other posts that treating men and women with equality in the workplace does not mean that men and women are the same. Male/female biology is different. Don't see how to make that "neutral."

It is a bit too simplistic to blame this whole mess on modern feminism, tho. The issue is more complex than that:

I think mass media (at least in the US, can't speak for other countries) is teaching young people some pretty messed up ideas about sex and sexuality that impact gender role presentation.

Example: Recently, I went online and watched a reality TV show. It's about a group of young men and women who live together. One night, they all went out to a club. One of the girls went out wearing lingerie. Over the course of the night, they all got wasted, were bumping and grinding on each other, dancing so everyone could see their undies and then proceeded to pick up total strangers to take home for a one night stand.

Is this all fiction? Unfortunately, it is not. I was out at a club a few weeks back and saw a bunch of college aged girls behaving in the same lewd, disgusting manner. They were copying/emulating this behavior. Some girls believe that they gain "power" when they reduce themselves to being sex objects. No wonder guys get confused--why would you treat a "lady" as a lady when she clearly isn't behaving as one and has no self-respect? Sorry for the rant. Just can't stand young women having a hand in their own oppression.

[latebloomingmom]

then there is this one...a man might play around with a bad girl but he marries a good girl..
an angel on his arm..a devil in bed
why would he buy the cow if he is getting the milk for free..

[UnaChispita]

then there is this one...a man might play around with a bad girl but he marries a good girl..
an angel on his arm..a devil in bed
why would he buy the cow if he is getting the milk for free..

Yes. The double-standard is frustrating but it still exists...
The complexities of being a woman!!

[latebloomingmom]

Yes. The double-standard is frustrating but it still exists...
The complexities of being a woman!!

unfortunatly, I do see a lot of young girls(teenagers) and young college-aged women who seem to think that by behaving more like boys they will be accepted as one of them..yes, it is a double standard. If a young man say the age of the OP had a contest with his roomates on how many chicks he could sleep with...they would congratulate him if he won.

[UnaChispita]

unfortunatly, I do see a lot of young girls(teenagers) and young college-aged women who seem to think that by behaving more like boys they will be accepted as one of them..yes, it is a double standard. If a young man say the age of the OP had a contest with his roomates on how many chicks he could sleep with...they would congratulate him if he won.

Exactly. Then they might go onto the RH of the Misc and post stats, pics and details of said "sloot."

LBM-I think you and I are about the same age. You think it's worse for young people in their 20ties than it was for us at their age? Dunno--I'm single right now and went out with a man my age--there was no issue about him holding the door for me or any of that nonsense. I appreciated it.

[SheHadMANHands]

I don't really here girls saying "treat me like a lady" i here, "i want a man that will treat me like a lady".. and its usually those who have no self-respect.

I am a firm believer that you should treat others how you want to be treated, and if your not treating your otherhalf with the respect then he shouldn't be treating you like wise or "like a lady".

You're stating the obvious. I don't know anyone who wouldn't attest to the "golden rule" of treating others how you'd like to be treated (note the inherent selfishness in motives here). This is not the point, nor would it merit any conversation.

Can you elaborate on the first "sentence"? How does one lack self-respect by desiring to be "treated like a lady" or to "act like a lady" (perhaps not dressing in public with half her ass hanging out of her skirt)? And if being "treated like a lady" is reduced to nothing more than being treated as a female (who is physically, psychologically, etc, distinct from a male), do you express an open coldness toward any such gestures (i.e. man picking up girl, paying for first date/etc, opening doors out of respect, walking her back to her door, being the "aggressor" in relationships, ...)?

Is the romanticism of 'Casablanca' dead?

[SheHadMANHands]

unfortunatly, I do see a lot of young girls(teenagers) and young college-aged women who seem to think that by behaving more like boys they will be accepted as one of them..yes, it is a double standard. If a young man say the age of the OP had a contest with his roomates on how many chicks he could sleep with...they would congratulate him if he won.

I don't think most men would congratulate him... definitely many would. Again, we have a difference in natural psychology that's probably playing a significant role. There's an instinctive tendency among males, following from natural selection, to "spread one's seed" far and wide, if you will. Every species is this way, and it's a long term beneficial tendency from the mindset of species survival and "success" (sounds almost like a virus spreading..). It certainly doesn't have a place in modern society though, or in modern morality. You could almost imagine men, at least some, having to combat this "instinctual urge" to some extent, though I don't think it's such an issue with most.

It is a bit of a double standard.. but never forget that we're comparing apples and oranges here.

[MiscDemeanor]

I don't use this terminology. People should treat each other with respect as human beings, not based on gender.

/thread

[UnaChispita]

It is a bit of a double standard.. but never forget that we're comparing apples and oranges here.

Apples and oranges...peaches and plums...doesn't matter that we are different; we live in ONE culture, so there IS a double standard. Not fair, but just the way it is.

Actually, I am hoping some women in their twenties will weigh in on your question or some older guys in their late thirties and beyond. It would interesting to see if there are generational differences.

[SheHadMANHands]

/thread

Again, I agree (who wouldn't). And, again, the statement you're referring "/thread" to has almost nothing to do with the OP or following dialogue.

[SheHadMANHands]

Apples and oranges...peaches and plums...doesn't matter that we are different; we live in ONE culture, so there IS a double standard. Not fair, but just the way it is.

Actually, I am hoping some women in their twenties will weigh in on your question or some older guys in their late thirties and beyond. It would interesting to see if there are generational differences.

... Again, agreed. I do not endorse running around sexing up every female you see "like an animal". I'm pointing out the difference in instinctual mindset, and how the arising of such a double standard is not shocking. That's all.

[UnaChispita]

Again, I agree (who wouldn't). And, again, the statement you're referring "/thread" to has almost nothing to do with the OP or following dialogue.

OP, I think they continue to post that response probably because their point is that a person's gender shouldn't matter. One of you can correct me if I wrong on that.

The fact remains, there are gender differences within culture. We do not live in a gender neutral society, so I think your original question is an excellent one.

[whatevergirl]

Genuinely curious... we men hear/see this all the time and I never quite understood it. I've inquired with a few girls before about it and they seemed clueless (maybe it's just fun to say??)..

So what does it mean!? You certainly never hear a man say "treat me like a gentleman", or something along these lines. My guess is that it's generally a statement implying that one does not want to "get played", or interested "in games", and perhaps has been victim of such occurrences too often in the past. This is understandable of course.

BUT I have an inclination it has some "chivalrous undertones" as well (at least sometimes when it is stated). It's perplexing a bit in modern times, considering how chivalry is all but dead (thank you new feminism :P ) and my generation, both males and females, seem hopeless at ever understanding this "lost art". This sort of "treat me like a lady" line seems like a clear example.

I think you got some good answers already.

I just wanted to chime in that I should rep you for that avi. I just adore Curb your Enthusiasm.

[CoffeCanSlayer]

Well you ignorant bastard, it means to treat someone with respect. I don't know why people bring it down to the SEX of a person. You know what it means, so quit being a fukcing nimrod.

[latebloomingmom]

Exactly. Then they might go onto the RH of the Misc and post stats, pics and details of said "sloot."

LBM-I think you and I are about the same age. You think it's worse for young people in their 20ties than it was for us at their age? Dunno--I'm single right now and went out with a man my age--there was no issue about him holding the door for me or any of that nonsense. I appreciated it.

I think for the younger generations many of these gentleman type behaviors seem antiquated...out of date..something their dad or grandfather might do..I think many believe that in the name of equality...these ways of treating the other gender should no longer exist.

I don't think most men would congratulate him... definitely many would. Again, we have a difference in natural psychology that's probably playing a significant role. There's an instinctive tendency among males, following from natural selection, to "spread one's seed" far and wide, if you will. Every species is this way, and it's a long term beneficial tendency from the mindset of species survival and "success" (sounds almost like a virus spreading..). It certainly doesn't have a place in modern society though, or in modern morality. You could almost imagine men, at least some, having to combat this "instinctual urge" to some extent, though I don't think it's such an issue with most. yes, I understand why men feel the need to do so but in the name of equality, true equality a female can also choose to have numerous sexual encounters then and not be judged badly for doing so.

It is a bit of a double standard.. but never forget that we're comparing apples and oranges here.

if this were a gender neutral society..these double standards then must fall away

OP, I think they continue to post that response probably because their point is that a person's gender shouldn't matter. One of you can correct me if I wrong on that.

The fact remains, there are gender differences within culture. We do not live in a gender neutral society, so I think your original question is an excellent one.

I think that in our lifetime we have made leaps and bounds in some areas of gender equality but in many areas we are still lagging..

[MiscDemeanor]

Again, I agree (who wouldn't). And, again, the statement you're referring "/thread" to has almost nothing to do with the OP or following dialogue.

What I meant was that I completely agree with what LunicaAshes and what several others here have said. The phrase, "treat me like a lady" means absolutely nothing to me. I've never used that phrase and never will because I would presume anyone would want to be treated with a certain level of respect. Not just a lady. To answer your question though I'm sure the girl who is saying that wishes to be treated not as a one night stand or someone who's easy to get. Hopefully she would give the same amount of respect in return to who she said it to though.