How much should I be power shrugging?

[NYGGGmen]

JUst give me an estimate. WHen I do regular shurgs with a 2-3 second hold, I'm using 135 and 155 for about 10-12 reps.

I did power shrugs last week, and I did about 230, but I'm not sure my form was correct at all so I just want to get an idea of what I should be doing??? I know it depends and numbers don't matter, but I just want an idea. Thanks!

[Ageispolis]

The question shouldn't be "how much should I be power shrugging", it should be "Why the hell did I let someone fool me into doing this exercise, and why didn't I use different deadlifts for trap growth?"

[khocha]

The question shouldn't be "how much should I be power shrugging", it should be "Why the hell did I let someone fool me into doing this exercise, and why didn't I use different deadlifts for trap growth?"

how do u know he's not deadlifting?

Hell, maybe he chooses not to do deadlifts, but thanks for reiterating deads are good for the millionth time.

Back to the topic, doood, just use as much as weight as u can handle properly, why worry about how it measures upto your regular shrugs? Whats the point?

[NYGGGmen]

The question shouldn't be "how much should I be power shrugging", it should be "Why the hell did I let someone fool me into doing this exercise, and why didn't I use different deadlifts for trap growth?"

Hmm. This blows my mind. How the fcuk can you assume I don't deadlift. Last week I hit a PR of 315 4x, so don't tell me I don't deadlift.

And why am I a fool for doing "this exersise"

[NYGGGmen]

how do u know he's not deadlifting?

Hell, maybe he chooses not to do deadlifts, but thanks for reiterating deads are good for the millionth time.

Back to the topic, doood, just use as much as weight as u can handle properly, why worry about how it measures upto your regular shrugs? Whats the point?

Well I'm not sure if my form was proper, and I'm pretty sure I couldve done more weight but maybe not cuz of my form. Either way, I want to try these instead of regular shrugs.

[Ageispolis]

how do u know he's not deadlifting?

Hell, maybe he chooses not to do deadlifts, but thanks for reiterating deads are good for the millionth time.

Back to the topic, doood, just use as much as weight as u can handle properly, why worry about how it measures upto your regular shrugs? Whats the point?

He might be, and repetition is good for you. Deads are not "the best exercise", "Siiiick", or even mandatory for some. But as far as trap growth, deadlift variations own all exercises, including shrugs, and the ill-fated power shrug.

[ultraMagnetical]

He might be, and repetition is good for you. Deads are not "the best exercise", "Siiiick", or even mandatory for some. But as far as trap growth, deadlift variations own all exercises, including shrugs, and the ill-fated power shrug.

there's nothing wrong with power shrugs!!

[NYGGGmen]

He might be, and repetition is good for you. Deads are not "the best exercise", "Siiiick", or even mandatory for some. But as far as trap growth, deadlift variations own all exercises, including shrugs, and the ill-fated power shrug.

NO **** deadlifts work the traps. But that had nothing to do with my original posts. I just dont get why you would mention that I don't deadlift.

And tell me how power shrugs are bad, when I've read about them using the searh-button, and they are highly recoomend on these boards from what I've read.

Just think about it, overloading should equal in growth right?

[Ageispolis]

Hmm. This blows my mind. How the fcuk can you assume I don't deadlift. Last week I hit a PR of 315 4x, so don't tell me I don't deadlift.

And why am I a fool for doing "this exersise"

Hey there KID, you don't have to take my advice, that's the beauty of opinion and choice. But the ****head attitude is uncalled for. Get it straight, the assumption started with you, followed by waving around your awesome PRs. I didn't assume you don't deadlift, I just told you somebody fooled you into doing a ****ty exercise. I could go into detail on why the DL variations are better for your traps than anything else, but then again, if you're too lazy to search for a topic that comes up 5 times a day, you probably lack the ability to read more than a few sentences, which is the limit I'm getting near, so I'll wrap this up with my last piece of advice:

Take your questions to this page. It seriously, literally, was made just for you.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=10

[NYGGGmen]

Hey there KID, you don't have to take my advice, that's the beauty of opinion and choice. But the ****head attitude is uncalled for. Get it straight, the assumption started with you, followed by waving around your awesome PRs. I didn't assume you don't deadlift, I just told you somebody fooled you into doing a ****ty exercise. I could go into detail on why the DL variations are better for your traps than anything else, but then again, if you're too lazy to search for a topic that comes up 5 times a day, you probably lack the ability to read more than a few sentences, which is the limit I'm getting near, so I'll wrap this up with my last piece of advice:

Take your questions to this page. It seriously, literally, was made just for you.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=10

Man, it's like talking to a wall isn't it?

I didn't ask about deadlifts, I asked about power shrugging? What don'y you get?

[khocha]

He might be, and repetition is good for you. Deads are not "the best exercise", "Siiiick", or even mandatory for some. But as far as trap growth, deadlift variations own all exercises, including shrugs, and the ill-fated power shrug.

Now thats your opinion and thats fine. Power shrugging is reccomended by many and wokrs very well for some people. Its an old exercise, and from what I read, isn't only a good exercise for the traps but can help build explosiveness which can carry over to cleans/deadlifts/etc.

But lets talk power shrugging. No need to condescend to other forum members who choose to do a certain exercise. If you started a thread abt how to do BB Hack Squats or Front Squats, and some one told you to STFU and do the "almighty squats" as told, you would get pissed too.

[2MuChBoDyFaT]

final round ......

Hey NYGGGmen, first of all, IMO .... your question is f.ucking stupid !!!!

nobody can tell you how much you should be doing for power shrugs

The answer = "as much as you can do with good form"

You can't compare what you do with what other people do. For one, everyone is DIFFERENT and two, IT DOESN'T MATTER !!!!

Stop focussing on numbers and just lift

If you are really interested in other people's lifts, then start a decent thread where people put in their stats and what they lift etc

*sigh*

My rant is over ...

by the way. It's nothing personal. Good luck with your lifting


- 2much

[RippedGuitarist]

God shut up guys! Stupid ass argument.

You should be shrugging heavy enough to get your desired rep range with good form. I prefer to hold power shrugs for a 2 count, but do them how you feel comfortable and stop worrying about the weight. It doesn't mean ****, just worry about progressing at a steady pace.

Deadlifts are great as well, but for most they are enough, power shrugs are a great addition.

[2MuChBoDyFaT]

God shut up guys! Stupid ass argument.

You should be shrugging heavy enough to get your desired rep range with good form. I prefer to hold power shrugs for a 2 count, but do them how you feel comfortable and stop worrying about the weight. It doesn't mean ****, just worry about progressing at a steady pace.

Deadlifts are great as well, but for most they are enough, power shrugs are a great addition.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Keith Wassung]

*I have seen different variations of this article on the power shrug by Bill Starr,,it is THE movement for upper back and trap development-enjoy-Keith

"TRAPS MAKE THE MAN" Part One

By Bill Starr

It was a holiday weekend and all the commercial gyms were closed, but the shed at Sam Fielder's dairy farm on the Johns Hopkins campus was open as usual. Walking in, I was surprised to find Jack and Allen working out. I gave them a friendly nod (that was my first mistake) and started my regular Friday program (my second mistake). "Say, Coach," Jack said, coming over to me, "could we ask you a couple training questions?" I sighed. "Fire away." That was my third mistake. What was coming my way wasn't a couple of random shots but a fusillade, a broadside.

"A lot of the guys we see in the gyms don't seem to have balanced physiques," Jack said. "They have big chests and arms and maybe legs, but something's wrong." "No traps," I said. "That's right!" he exclaimed. "How'd you know?" "It's been that way since bodybuilders stopped doing some of the Olympic-style exercises like power cleans, snatches, high pulls and especially shrugs." "How come bodybuilders did Olympic lifts?" Allen asked. He had come up on my blind side.


I took a deep breath. "When the Amateur Athletic Union controlled the sport of bodybuilding, the contestants who competed in the top shows, Mr. America and Mr. USA, were required to prove that they had accomplished a certain level of proficiency in another sport. These athletic points were critical. The easiest way to gain them was simply to lift in Olympic contests, since most of the physique men also did many of the lifts as part of their training anyway.

And some were amazingly strong. Vern Weaver power-cleaned 380 pounds before jerking it overhead. Sergio Oliva -- perhaps the strongest of all the great bodybuilders -- snatched 290 and clean-and-jerked 360 in the 198-pound class." "Wow!" Jack said. "So why don't bodybuilders still do Olympic lifts?" Allen asked.I laid down the barbell. "When Joe Weider took control of the sport," I said, "he dropped the athletic-point concept and as a result, the physique contestants stopped doing heavy pulling exercises.

Without the heavy pulls, especially the heavy shrugs, trap development declined. Thick traps just make your entire upper torso look more massive and powerful. Look at photos of Sergio in his prime. Traps as thick as the hump on a Brahman bull." "How come more people don't do those exercises then?" Allen asked.

"Two reasons," I said. "Building big traps requires handling heavy weights. Traps just don't respond to light weights. Most guys are content to use 225. Second, doing heavy shrugs correctly takes practice, and this can be discouraging. Instead of looking awkward, they stay with lighter weight. But that doesn't feed the bulldog."

"Traps are real important to football players, aren't they?" Jack asked. "To help protect their necks?" "Absolutely," I said. "And not just football players. Almost every athlete needs strong traps. You can hurt the neck in so many ways in sports: diving into a base in baseball, getting thrown to the floor in basketball, a collision in soccer.

Even noncontact sports like tennis and swimming can place the athlete in a situation potentially harmful to the neck. So maintaining a strong neck is not a luxury for any athlete, but a necessity." "We do shrugs," Jack pointed out, "but from what you say, we don't use enough weight." "No, they're much more involved than that," I told him. "The traps are made up of four overlapping layers of muscle. They originate at the base of the skull, swing out and tie in with the deltoids at the shoulders, then form a wide triangle all the way down to the middle of the back.


That's why they have to be worked with heavy weights. You have to punish traps. They're capable of moving, in explosive fashion, over a quarter of a ton. My boys aren't satisfied till they can move six big plates on each side of the bar." Allen and Jack exchanged glances. "That sounds like a lot of weight, Coach." "They don't start with that amount," I said. "First they have to master the technique. Most stay with 315 for two or three weeks before adding weight. But once they have good form, I let 'em load the bar. If their traps aren't sore after a workout, they didn't do enough.

But when the traps are worked hard, they respond almost instantly, better than any other muscle group." "We've been doing those high pulls you wrote about in Muscle & Fitness, and they get our traps sore," Allen said. "High pulls are good to do along with shrugs because they fit into a second day of back work nicely," I told him.


"Will you show us how to do dynamic shrugs?" Allen asked me. "Sure," I said. "You two can do them along with me. The best place to do dynamic shrugs is inside a power rack. But since we don't have one here, we can do them off the bottom rack of the staircase squat rack.

The power rack is best because it allows you to position the bar at the exact height you want, and it's also very safe since if you happen to lose your balance, you can just step away from the bar. But that also holds true when you do them off a squat rack. If you ever happen to lose control, just let the weight go.""What's the right starting height?" Jack asked. "Mid-thigh," I replied. "If it's too high, you won't be able to get as much action out of the bar; if it's too low, you won't be able to get the bar in motion properly. Use straps because you can't shrug correctly without really being locked to the bar.

Without straps, your grip will fail with the really heavy weights. Step in close to the bar. Very close. Set your upper body in the correct position with your frontal deltoids slightly ahead of the bar, keep your arms straight and think about pushing your feet down through the floor.As soon as the bar breaks from the pins or rack, drive your hips forward. This will elevate the bar to belt height. Using this momentum, pull the bar as high as you can, concentrating on keeping the elbows up and out. Remember, once the elbows turn back, the traps will no longer contract." "How high should I try to pull the bar?" Jack asked.

"As high as you can," I told him. "Pull exactly as you do for the power clean. Some like to warm up with a set of power cleans to get the feel of the explosive movement. Obviously, the heavier weights will not travel very far upward, but once you've formed the pattern of pulling dynamically with the lighter weights, the heavier ones will climb a bit higher. The higher the weight is pulled, the more muscle fibers get into the act. Which, in turn, builds stronger, thicker traps."


Jack did his set correctly, but he allowed the bar to crash back to the rack after each rep. I cautioned him: "Control the weight more at the very top. Don't let it jerk you around so much. When you allow that to happen, you're running the risk of hurting your shoulders or elbows. And it's not necessary. When the bar reaches the top of the pull, resist it slightly and hold it briefly like you would a heavy deadlift. Lower it in a controlled manner back to the rack, reset, then do your next rep. Don't rebound the bar off the rack either. Pause momentarily to make sure your body is in the correct pulling mode before doing the next rep. Do five reps." Allen then took a turn, but wasn't pulling the bar nearly high enough.

It looked more like an upright row. "Don't think of this as an exercise, but as a feat of strength," I told him. "You are really using your entire body to elevate the bar. Your feet have to be planted firmly, your legs, hips, back and shoulders have to be tight and you have to really grit your teeth and try to move the bar higher and higher. Once it passes your belt, I shouldn't be able to see the bar move. It should be a blur. Your motion isn't bad, it's just too deliberate. When you lift your elbows up and out, do so forcefully, as you would to throw a punch." On his final few reps, Allen did better.

When he finished, I said: "The elbows are really the key to doing this lift correctly. With your frontal deltoids out in front of the bar, the elbows have to be driven upward, with the idea of trying to touch your shoulder caps to your ears. This isn't possible, of course, but this is what you should be thinking at the top of the pull." For their second set, we put 225 on the bar. Jack did one rep, then had to step forward to control the bar. "This is a great teacher for the top of the pull," I told them. "If the bar runs forward, you're not keeping it close enough to your body and not bringing your hips through correctly.

[Keith Wassung]

Part Two

If you have to step backward, you're allowing your elbows to turn backward too soon." He did the rest of his set correctly, remarking, "I'm hitting my belt." "Which means you're pulling right," I replied. "I don't recommend using a belt for shrugs because you'll hit it, but some people insist they just don't feel comfortable without one.""Could we vary our grip to hit different muscles?" Jack asked. I nodded. "The basic grip is the same one you would use on the power clean, but altering the grip will allow you to work different groups.


Some like to do the regular grip one week and a slightly wider one the next. Others prefer to change their grips on successive sets in the same workout. When you do this, it's best to start with the wider grip and work inward since most people are stronger with the clean grip."


We moved on to 315 pounds, and while I was doing my set, I told them: "I use another form of dynamic shrugging for variation or when I don't have any type of rack to hold the weight for me. I call them Hawaiian shrugs because that's how we did them at the University of Hawaii till we got a power rack.

These are done outside a rack without any support between the reps. They are also beneficial for anyone who has trouble learning the exercise inside the rack, since they force you to do them correctly. They're done exactly like those inside the rack, but you have no relaxation time between reps. The first few times you do shrugs outside a rack, stay rather light. You want to make sure you have the form down before loading up the bar, and also Hawaiian shrugs work the shoulders a bit differently. This is a plus if the form is right, but if the bar starts to move around too much, you can get hurt."

"Can you think of an instance where the static type of shrug is better than the dynamic kind?" Jack asked. "Sure," I said. "People with shoulder problems often can't do the explosive movements. Or they may have bad knees or sore backs and the explosive type of exercise aggravates those bodyparts. The static form of shrugging can be effective if it's worked hard enough and heavy enough. Too many trainers think they're getting the job done with 225. Even 315 isn't enough to build larger traps. You have to get up in the 400-pound range to get results.

When doing the static version of the shrug, lift the weight as high as possible, then resist it at the top for a couple of seconds on each rep. If you get an electric jolt through your neck when you do shrugs, you're doing 'em right. And, of course, the true test of whether you handled enough weight or pulled hard enough is if you're sore the next few days.""Should we do the high pulls on one back day and the shrugs on the other?" Allen asked. "Or should we ever put them back-to-back on the same day?" "Either is fine, but you might want to cut down on the sets the first time you try training them back-to-back.

Four sets of high pulls, then three or four sets of heavy shrugs. That would certainly attack the traps." Jack and Allen nodded. "That's what we want. Traps make the man." "You said it," I agreed.

[Madcow2]

1) it takes a while to build up to heavy weight. Learning to explode and conditioning the body to generating maximal force quickly take time.

2) obviously you should be deadlifting, rowing, snatching, cleaning or some type of full range pulling motions (not necessarily all at once or all of them but you get the idea) . The powershrug is an assistance lift and range of motion is short. It can also be done from just above the knees which will lower the weight but turn it into more of a core clean pull from the hang (this is not necessarily desirable but merely a bit of a variant if you like this type of work and maybe aren't skilled enough for the full OLs).

3) do what you can do, and just focus on adding weight to the bar when able. After developing the lift some find they can use a significant percentage over the best deadlift, some who have trouble with lockout might find that very difficult. Depends on the person. I imagine you've read everything in this link which has stuff copied from Glenn Pendlay as well as some old posts of mine: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=319

4) these can be a valuable exercise both for the athlete, the olympic lifter, the powerlifter, or the bodybuilder. I honestly don't know any person who has done these correctly and didn't have very noticable in the mirror success within the 4-6 weeks (an olympic lifter doing lots of heavy pulling and clean pulls might be an exception but so much weight can be used compared to his full range lifts that it is still generally rare not to see some fairly strong effect). Actually I've never met anyone who didn't get results off this thing - it is one of the few guaranteed lifts that I know of. This exercise was the original shrug and has been in use since at least previous to the 1930s.

[Madcow2]

*I have seen different variations of this article on the power shrug by Bill Starr,,it is THE movement for upper back and trap development-enjoy-Keith

I knew I recognized that name from somewhere. I sometimes browse over the Sherdog forums.

[DangerDan]

powershrugs and cleans are the only thing that make mine grow.

To each his own!

[mike_d]

He might be, and repetition is good for you. Deads are not "the best exercise", "Siiiick", or even mandatory for some. But as far as trap growth, deadlift variations own all exercises, including shrugs, and the ill-fated power shrug.

false

[Madcow2]

But as far as trap growth, deadlift variations own all exercises, including shrugs, and the ill-fated power shrug.

Concerning the "ill-fated power shrug" here's some historical perspective on bodybuilding and what's gone on in that culture and commercial gyms over the past 20+ years with regard to exercise selection. I started training in the 1980s so I lived this first hand.

Deadlift: this exercise was basically DEAD with no one knowing how to do it, no magazine even mentioning it, and bodybuilders largely having no idea it existed. Powerlifters (very rare at the time) kept this thing alive by a hair. This all changed around 1994ish when Chris Duffy entered the scene. He had used it extensively when training for football and it was a core part of his off-season program and a major foundation lift. He is quoted as "I feel like I'm leading a renaissance for the deadlift." He basically promoted the living hell out of it and gradually it filtered into Muscle Media/2000 and some of the Wieder mags over time until people started trying it and were stunned at how well it layered on muscle.

Squat: you hardly ever if ever saw anyone talking about the squat. Mainly if it ever did come up it was said it 'made your waist too thick'. People started getting more serious about the squat around the same time as the deadlift. Largely machines and heavy promotion served to kill off most of these lifts and although they were very effective sky rocketing drug usage was able to compensate for their absence.

Bent-Over Row: Hell - if it wasn't for Dorian, this thing would have been totally dead. No one knew how to do these and they were never used until he started, and even then no one realized that his technique was 'different' aside from his grip.

Cleans and Snatches, Jerks, Push Presses: Survived by a thread, no one knew what they were and they are still coming back into BBing/commercial consciousness.

Keep in mind, over the entire era where these lifts just disappeared from the BBing mind and commercial gym culture they remained heavily utilized in athletics as the base for training all around the world. I think it's safe to say that this grouping of lifts comprises the most stimulative out there and is almost totally complete with the exception of the everpopular bench press. These are basically the building block kit for any natural trainee or any serious trainee yet thanks to Nautilus, Arthur Jones, and increasing reliance on drugs they were basically non-existant and "ill-fated" so to speak. To this day, you can probably count on one hand the people in a commerical gym doing these lifts and doing them correctly (and I exclude the olympic lifts from this too).

So I'd venture that if one did some statistical analysis on the correlation of the effectiveness of a lift vs. how totally ignored it's been by commercial gym and bodybuilding culture over time - you'd find a strong direct relationship. To your theory that the power shrug is 'ill-fated' and best ignored - I'd mention that just like the big lifts above the power shrug has remained a valued lift for athletes during this time used by many highly respected coaches. In other words, don't discount it's value based upon it's preceived popularity. No one well acquainted with this lift doesn't respect its effectiveness and for adding muscle to the traps and upper back, honestly it is the finest assistance lift in existance (however one absolutely needs full range core lifts to build a foundation for this to work on - hence, assistance).

[vision1]

Hey there KID, you don't have to take my advice, that's the beauty of opinion and choice. But the ****head attitude is uncalled for. Get it straight, the assumption started with you, followed by waving around your awesome PRs. I didn't assume you don't deadlift, I just told you somebody fooled you into doing a ****ty exercise. I could go into detail on why the DL variations are better for your traps than anything else, but then again, if you're too lazy to search for a topic that comes up 5 times a day, you probably lack the ability to read more than a few sentences, which is the limit I'm getting near, so I'll wrap this up with my last piece of advice:

Take your questions to this page. It seriously, literally, was made just for you.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=10

What you don't understand is, He's right, You're wrong.

Power shrugs are a great exercise. Very good for improving your clean, and it's a good explosive movement.

As for deadlifts being the best for trap development...I doubt it. The traps are only a stabilizer in the movement. I'd give it to either high pulls or shrugs.

[Keith Wassung]

let me add something about the Power Shrug and shrugs in general. The vast majority of people, including athletes and people who lift, have a VERY restricted range of motion in their trapezius. I have been doing clinical exams for nearly 20 years now and literally everybody I have ever examined has a VERY restricted ROM in the traps. Some exceptions would be olympic lifters, some field athletes and or guys who have worked in the gym to improve their ROM. If you are tight and or have restricted ROM in the traps-and I bet that is 80-90% of you, then you will have to spend some time working to improve it. The best way that I know is do do a bunch of no weight shrugs throughout the day-do it in the car, in the bathroom, in the empty hallway, standing in line at the restaurant or gas station, you do a quick shrug to the ears-get up as high as you can, hold the contraction for 2-3 sections and then go even higher. Aim to touch your shoulders to your ears. Do it over and over and over-a little tip in weight training-repetition will fix just about anything. Do this in the morning when you wake up, do it in the shower, as you brush your teeth. Do this for 2-3 weeks and then start doing it with a broomstick-learn to do full rom shrugs with an empty bar, then do shrugs with an empty bar and gradually add weight. Once you improve the trapezius ROM, you will see INCREDIBLE results when you train them-contraction is one of the key elements and I dont care how much weight you use, if you are not getting the proper muscular contraction, you are selling yourself short in terms of reaching your own potential.

couple fast tips on the power shrug

-if possible use an olympic type bar as opposed to a stiffer, power type bar. The olympic bar will have "life", spring in it and this will give you a better pop at the top.

-The deltoids need to be slightly out in front of the bar-very important

-The initial pull, that is the breaking of the bar off of the pins is done with the full body, but mostly with the legs get the drive going, then...and this is the KEY to the move, you drive your hips forward which will further elevate the bar and at the same time you are using your traps to elevate the bar as high as possible. The hip drive is the key to getting the bar moving.

-I like doing them in front of a mirror-helps me watch my form

-I use foam insulation on the pins, this lessens the impact on my body and on the bar when I set the bar back down on the pins

-I like doing a 5x5 routine for power shrugs on first workout of the week and then 2-3 sets of 12-15 reps on the second day. On the second day, I do not use the power rack, but simply do them from the hang position with a slight knee dip

-Power Shrugs DO NOT cause DOMS (Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness) they DO cause IOMS (Immediate Onset Muscle Soreness) which then leads to GGWOMS (Gets Gradually Worse Ongoing Muscle Soreness)

Keith

Keith Wassung"

[Ageispolis]

NO **** deadlifts work the traps. But that had nothing to do with my original posts. I just dont get why you would mention that I don't deadlift.

And tell me how power shrugs are bad, when I've read about them using the searh-button, and they are highly recoomend on these boards from what I've read.

Just think about it, overloading should equal in growth right?

You don't have to be a dick. I could insult you, but I'm just going to show you why you're wrong. Overload is what builds muscle, but you can't apply that in any way you want. That's why 1000 pushups isn't going to do **** for your chest.

I don't know why you're acting this way, but I'm guessing that by the 5 threads you make here a day and your age, you have little to no experience. Taking advice and critiscm from people are two different things but apply in the same way. If you can't learn to do that correctly, don't make that anybody else's problem.

What you don't understand is, He's right, You're wrong.

Power shrugs are a great exercise. Very good for improving your clean, and it's a good explosive movement.

As for deadlifts being the best for trap development...I doubt it. The traps are only a stabilizer in the movement. I'd give it to either high pulls or shrugs.

Right about what?

Your points on why power shrugs are good are right on the dot, as well as for khocha's. It is a power movement, for purposes other than trap growth. I pointed him in another direction for this reason, and because I knew he wasn't going for strength gains from where he said, "I know numbers don't matter"

I've power shrugged, and it's done exactly nothing for me as far as trap growth, but give me a pump. As for traps not getting as much growth because they act as a stabalizer in the DLs, you're logic is askewed. Some muscles grow better as stabailzers than they do in actual movement. Does this sound familiar? Example: Chest pressing. The pecs are not a primary or even secondary mover in the lift, yet it is regarded as the best muscle builder for that muscle or muscle group. Go up to an experienced lifter with a huge chest, and ask him if he doesn't press and only does crossovers and flys.

I'm not insulting anyone's knowledge, or discrediting anyone, just sharing what I know from experience. Take it how you want it.

[vision1]

Right about what?

Your points on why power shrugs are good are right on the dot, as well as for khocha's. It is a power movement, for purposes other than trap growth. I pointed him in another direction for this reason, and because I knew he wasn't going for strength gains from where he said, "I know numbers don't matter"

I've power shrugged, and it's done exactly nothing for me as far as trap growth, but give me a pump. As for traps not getting as much growth because they act as a stabalizer in the DLs, you're logic is askewed. Some muscles grow better as stabailzers than they do in actual movement. Does this sound familiar? Example: Chest pressing. The pecs are not a primary or even secondary mover in the lift, yet it is regarded as the best muscle builder for that muscle or muscle group. Go up to an experienced lifter with a huge chest, and ask him if he doesn't press and only does crossovers and flys.

I'm not insulting anyone's knowledge, or discrediting anyone, just sharing what I know from experience. Take it how you want it.

By saying you're wrong I was directing it to the point about power shrugs being a "****ty exercise". Maybe they aren't the best for trap development, but I never noticed reading anything that said he was only after size. And even so, olympic lifters have huge traps so something has to be going on.

I wasn't saying deadlifts aren't the best for trap development, I was just saying that I PERSONALLY don't think they are. But chest isn't only a stabilizer in the bench press, it's one of the main muscles used. I couldn't order chest, shoulders, and triceps myself but depending on hand placement I'd put chest atleast in second spot. EXRX.net and many other websites put chest as the primary mover but I take there word for it, I'd need to see some tests.

[RippedGuitarist]

I don't know about you Age, but for me nothing makes my traps grow like Power Shrugs. I find your statement that they aren't meant for growth to be false. They seem to work for me, perhaps its entirely possible it just doesn't work for you body? Not everyone responds the same way.

[2MuChBoDyFaT]

You don't have to be a dick. I could insult you, but......

but .... ahhhh....****.....i already did.... damn

haha, I know where you are coming from dude, but that line just made me laugh

Power shrugs work for me. I just wish I could do more weight on them sometimes (as my grip gives out first)

I am about to order straps ........ (just to try it out....honest)

[olympic]

The posts by Keith Wassung and Madcow in this thread have been extremely informative- thanks guys.

[Madcow2]

I don't know about you Age, but for me nothing makes my traps grow like Power Shrugs. I find your statement that they aren't meant for growth to be false. They seem to work for me, perhaps its entirely possible it just doesn't work for you body? Not everyone responds the same way.

For the record, I've trained a number of people using these at various times. I've also talked to people who have trained somewhere between hundreds and thousands over the years at various Oly or D1 training facilities. I honestly have never seen or heard of a single case where somewhere between dramatic hypertrophy and significant hypertrophy did not occur as a direct result of beginning to incorporate the power shrug and training it properly over a period. These were people who already were deadlifting, rowing, often performing normal shrugs, and a good portion of which put some time into power cleans or hang cleans. The major exception I can think of is dedicated olympic lifters who do tons of very similar work, and generally, there is still a significant effect (hypertrophy strictly).

EDIT:

Also, purely biomechanical - examine deadlifts and cleans, both of which are well established for adding muscle to the upper back and traps (so no need to lay foundation work in exercise here). The only real difference in the power shrug is load, direct usage, and range of motion. It is similar to the clean in that the traps are used far more directly than the deadlift. However, the loads employed are more equivalent to the deadlift. So, if you are doing them correctly you have very significant loads being not only stabalized at varying angles (i.e. deadlift) but also fully utilized (i.e. the clean/shrug portion). The torse angle change replicates the top of the 2nd pull in the clean and the lockout in the deadlift (and this is specifically useful in improving deadlift lockout and generating acceleration to complete the pull).

Essentially, this exercise works for the same reason those exercises do and actually it borrows the best from both (load from deadlift, and direct employment from the clean) with one exception - range of motion (although obviously the traps still get better ROM than the deadlift, it's just a shorter pull overall). This tends to be why when using a pure power shrug higher reps are employed and/or more frequency can be tolerated. Not that heavier loads are bad and unuseful but this exercise really tend to thrive on reps above 8 even in the 10-15 range (and I have trouble counting that high). It's a good exercise and with proper technique and work in developing it (which is slightly harder than going in and doing curls or a press the first time, it takes practice to use the body dynamically as a unit and really generate power) there's no logical reason it wouldn't be a phenomenal exercise for upper back and trap development (once again providing a good base from full range pulling is already in place). And this directly corresponds to the general experience accross fairly broad populations pretty much without exception. Obviously mileage may vary, but this is nearly as close to a sure thing for effectiveness as the deadlift, squat, bench, or rows - it flat out works and I can't remember ever seeing anyone anywhere who has trained it properly and progressively over a period and not felt it was effective.

[vision1]

Madcow, I was always taught to keep power exercises at low reps. What's your thought on that?