Is RAW Ratings Better Now W/O Trips?

[whodo]

It's a funny question asking how Raw has been affected by HHH's absence. Because in my opinion it was stagnating horribly by relying too much on HHH being the central character in every story he was involved in, and, the center of every show, but since he's been absent the show has sucked out loud. Lack of ideas on behalf of creative? Probably.... for those of you who read at OO you've heard the Rick talk about stunt booking, and that's all that's pretty much the WWE's only trick lately. Quickfire ratings boosts, albeit temporary ones by carting out legends.... but nostalgia only lasts so long and unfortunately they've got nothing good to do with the confoundingly huge pool of talent on the show. Instead it's become Heat v2.0 feat. a blockbuster feud between HBK and Hogan and not a whole lot else.

But HHH coming back straight away isn't the answer, i watched Raw the other day, actually WANTING HHH to be on my screen and that's a very good thing, because it'd been a very long time since I'd NEEDED to see HHH. That to me is an indicator that his absense IS actually working as a refresher for his character. I'm a big fan of HHH but i stick by saying that his act was stagnant and his booking totally counterproductive to the end goal it was trying to achieve.

Anyhoo, point is, ratings will mean nothing. The funny thing is that the show really is the polar opposite of what it was with HHH on it, but any change in ratings really can't be too attributed to his absence, just because of how it's been booked. Stunt booking combined with the absolute definition of Heat calibre matches.... it's just been bizarre.

In reponse to some other things. Yes Randy Orton blew everything he was given him. There is no question about that, and no explanation other than Randy wasn't as good as WWE thought/hoped he was. Batista going to WM was NOT a creative flaw as pertained to Batista, quite the opposite. Project Randy flopped, and flopped bad. They tried to shove him down our throats for the better part of a year, against heavy resistance, that never budged despite their best efforts. Meanwhile in the background, the writer monkeys weren't bestowing Batista with their "brilliance", and as such Batista just ad libbed his backstage segments and quietly got better in the ring, while the fans started to really get behind him.

It reached such a pinnacle that plans for Randy's WM main event were shunted and Batista was put in. The REASON Batista's reign has been mediocre, now that there is the flaw of creative. Batista created his own popularity, and the idiots in creative have no idea how to harness it, so instead of letting him run free and be a brand carrying babyface, they cart him out for 2 minutes a show and hand him a disgracefully stilted script, and then blame him for not carrying the ball.

JBL is great on the stick, horrible in the ring. No question. The other conundrum is that the basis for how good JBL's mic work was him being champion. Now that he's not, his act doesn't make sense, and his promos as a result, while still being incredibly well delivered, are just becoming tiresome and repetitive.

As far as comparing Batista and JBL in terms of wrestling ability, Batista wins. Both need a better opponent to get a good match, but in saying that, give JBL a great opponent you'll get "watchable-good", give Batista a great opponent, and he'll give you "Good-Great".

I can't even remember what my original point was. that means it's time to go.

Somebody buy this guy a beer, right on the money.

The ONLY thing I slightly disagree with is the whole Batista situation. Batista rose to popularity with probably the best built up storyline from last year with the whole Batista vs. Triple H deal.

Remember the RAW when Batista fake-turned on Triple H just to work the crowd? Awesome stuff. Every week we were waiting for him to finally turn on him, the way a storyline should be. The anticipation was killer. Every other stupid storyline is done too hastily for no freakin reason.

What was cool about Batista was he came off as this incredibly laid back, cool, calm, normal type person through all his backstage segments, something the audience could connect with. But his glaring flaw is he couldn't bring it out from the backstage to the ring whenever he was on the mic. Him being champion doesn't help when he's expected to carry a show when he has mediocre mic skills. He just doesn't have the ability to come out and work up the crowd the way he talks. I mean, he's got his on and off nights, but most of the time you can tell he just looks uncomfortable with the mic in front of a large audience. Bringing him out more often won't help his image at all.

[HardGainer82]

most of the time you can tell he just looks uncomfortable with the mic in front of a large audience. Bringing him out more often won't help his image at all.

It will if it makes him GET more comfortable...if they don't let him talk he'll never improve.

[Jows073]

ratings have only been better bvecause they're brining all these legends since he is gone. rowdy piper, hogan=ratings.

again, it's not randy's fault, they turned him face too fast. he was a heel for 8 months and the night later a face.sorry, isn't gonna wrok. as a reuslt fans never reallt got behind him. it ain't a quyestion of if randy flopped or not, it's poor booking and tha't it.

look, batista ain't goood in the ring period. his matches stink and end up on 5 minutes because he has 3 moves. he's a goldberg wannabe. when he's wrestling a great wrestler the match will be good because his iopponent will caryy him. when he's wrestling a bad wrestler the match will stink because his opponent can't carry him. when hjbl is in a gimmick match he does very well. their's no denying that. batista never does well unless carried by a talwented opponent.

Bringing back ex Top WWE guys just goes to highlight their own inefficiencies.
If they actually ultilized the talent they have already got properly and booked them in a half decent manner they wouldn't need to bring back Hogan, piper and all the others.
It just weakens the show in the long run.

[ironmaiden01]

Somebody buy this guy a beer, right on the money.

The ONLY thing I slightly disagree with is the whole Batista situation. Batista rose to popularity with probably the best built up storyline from last year with the whole Batista vs. Triple H deal.

Remember the RAW when Batista fake-turned on Triple H just to work the crowd? Awesome stuff. Every week we were waiting for him to finally turn on him, the way a storyline should be. The anticipation was killer. Every other stupid storyline is done too hastily for no freakin reason.

What was cool about Batista was he came off as this incredibly laid back, cool, calm, normal type person through all his backstage segments, something the audience could connect with. But his glaring flaw is he couldn't bring it out from the backstage to the ring whenever he was on the mic. Him being champion doesn't help when he's expected to carry a show when he has mediocre mic skills. He just doesn't have the ability to come out and work up the crowd the way he talks. I mean, he's got his on and off nights, but most of the time you can tell he just looks uncomfortable with the mic in front of a large audience. Bringing him out more often won't help his image at all.

like i said, he may have the words but his points are weak and fanboyish. point is it wasn't randy orton's fault. it was bad booking. he was heel for 8 months, turned a face overnight and the next ppv lost the belt. how in the hell was he supposed to work after that? he didn't even get a chance.

[ironmaiden01]

Bringing back ex Top WWE guys just goes to highlight their own inefficiencies.
If they actually ultilized the talent they have already got properly and booked them in a half decent manner they wouldn't need to bring back Hogan, piper and all the others.
It just weakens the show in the long run.

true that. thye've done that for years and nowit finally gets to them.

[reignoffire]

Here's a question: how many top line guys who fueded with HHH have stuck around afterwards? None. They all got shoved straight down to midcard status....Benoit, RVD, Orton, Booker, etc. I'm not blaming HHH soely, if Vince had common sense he would have said 'No trips, your jobbing, we need to establish top line stars.'

Look around 97-2000, how many top card stars there were, permenant top stars. HBK, Bret, Taker, Austin, Mankind, Rock, HHH...you had lots of different fueds. Not all title feuds, but certainly not second fiddle, either.

now you have HHH, and maybe Cena with staying power. HBk, Kurt and Taker can't go full schedule like they used to, and have no fresh feuds.


Now you have people who are basically holding the belt for HHH to recapture it from. I BET Batista will be demoted as well, when he has served his purpose. By doing that, WWE has screwed themselves, since they have no really legible top liners for Bas to fued with. JBL is really the best they can do? How pathetic is that?

[IronTank]

now you have HHH, and maybe Cena with staying power. HBk, Kurt and Taker can't go full schedule like they used to, and have no fresh feuds.

I don't know if you have noticed but HHH hasn't been on tv since Vengeance and it does't look like he'll be on until October. So I don't think you can say they have HHH now. I'm pretty sure Kurt is on a full schedule. HBK is probably almost there. Theres Batista. JBL (shudders). Edge. Cena. Jericho. Guerrero.

[reignoffire]

I don't know if you have noticed but HHH hasn't been on tv since Vengeance and it does't look like he'll be on until October. So I don't think you can say they have HHH now. I'm pretty sure Kurt is on a full schedule. HBK is probably almost there. Theres Batista. JBL (shudders). Edge. Cena. Jericho. Guerrero.

You cannot call JBL, Edge, Jericho and Guerrero true top liners. Jericho and Guerro had a top title run and were pushed right back into midcard status, and I doubt will ever be true headliners again, and JBL will never be accepted by fans as a true headline name.

HBK and Kurt are awesome, but how long can they go on for seriously?
And Batista will be going back down to mid card status.

So you h ave HHH and Cena, and HBK and Kurt. Compare that to the line up I mentioned before. And as you point out, HHH is on vaccation or whever. So as genuine top liners, you have Cena, HBK and Kurt. Cena is popular with dreadful mic skills and in ring abilities, and HBK and Kurt are awesome but on borrowed time, what with age and various nagging injuries....so that makes one new true headliner, in years. There's Brock Lesnar too, but he's out at the moment. So two since around 2001. The others you mentioned cannot be called top liners with a straight face, Im sorry. I wish it were different, but the wwe's booking netuered Gurerro and Y2J, JBL just doesn't have 'it' and is shoved down the fans throat, Batista doesn't truly have 'it' either (not saying he isn't servicable, but he will be put right back to midcard after HHH regains the title), No one cared about edge before the matt thing, and no one will after....so thats the state of wwe pretty much.

[HardGainer82]

I don't know if you have noticed but HHH hasn't been on tv since Vengeance and it does't look like he'll be on until October. So I don't think you can say they have HHH now. I'm pretty sure Kurt is on a full schedule. HBK is probably almost there. Theres Batista. JBL (shudders). Edge. Cena. Jericho. Guerrero.

HBK has been on a full schedule for a while now...

[reignoffire]

Fair enough, but regardless, my point still stands. He's getting older, and his injuries of old will not sustain him forever, and if he ignores it he will have
permenant problems later on. Ditto Kurt. And I don't think any of us want to see that happen.

[IronTank]

You cannot call JBL, Edge, Jericho and Guerrero true top liners. Jericho and Guerro had a top title run and were pushed right back into midcard status, and I doubt will ever be true headliners again, and JBL will never be accepted by fans as a true headline name.

HBK and Kurt are awesome, but how long can they go on for seriously?
And Batista will be going back down to mid card status.

So you h ave HHH and Cena, and HBK and Kurt. Compare that to the line up I mentioned before. And as you point out, HHH is on vaccation or whever. So as genuine top liners, you have Cena, HBK and Kurt. Cena is popular with dreadful mic skills and in ring abilities, and HBK and Kurt are awesome but on borrowed time, what with age and various nagging injuries....so that makes one new true headliner, in years. There's Brock Lesnar too, but he's out at the moment. So two since around 2001. The others you mentioned cannot be called top liners with a straight face, Im sorry. I wish it were different, but the wwe's booking netuered Gurerro and Y2J, JBL just doesn't have 'it' and is shoved down the fans throat, Batista doesn't truly have 'it' either (not saying he isn't servicable, but he will be put right back to midcard after HHH regains the title), No one cared about edge before the matt thing, and no one will after....so thats the state of wwe pretty much.

From what Angle says, he has five more years left, but we don't know how true that is. Guerrero and Jericho can be billed as main eventers again. There is Randy Orton. He tanked as a face, but he is a heel again and its working. Oh, since when is HHH on Smackdown?

[reignoffire]

From what Angle says, he has five more years left, but we don't know how true that is. Guerrero and Jericho can be billed as main eventers again. There is Randy Orton. He tanked as a face, but he is a heel again and its working. Oh, since when is HHH on Smackdown?

Did I say HHH was on smackdown? I didnt think I did....

Aside from internet fans, no one really buys Jericho as a top guy any more.
He gets a slight reaction, sure, but not ground breaking. And after being jobbed to by so many guys, who can blame them? Ditto Eddie. Even his reactions have died down now, and doesn't even get heat. The crowd have been lathargic at best through his last angle. They were killed, Y2J by HHH and booking, Eddie by booking. Randy Orton was NEVER truly top line.

When I say truly top line, I mean accepted as a top guy by everyone....fans, bookers, etc. And no offense, but you just need to open your eyes to see how low the bookers think of some o f these talented guys. Dont go on at me like its my fault they a re being treated crappy, I dont like it as much as you.

[HardGainer82]

Eddy and Jericho don't get crowd response? I'm not even going to bother disputing that one...

[reignoffire]

Eddy and Jericho don't get crowd response? I'm not even going to bother disputing that one...

I recently caught an editon of smackdown with a friend who hasnt watched wwe since bret left around 97 after the segment where eddie reveals the secret, this is what he said:

'how bored does this crowd look? you cant even hear any reaction'. And thats a guy who hasnt seen one piece of wrestling since 1997, noticing the lack of crowd enthusiasim (and this was after the 'devestating' secret was revealed, even then crickets could be heard chirping.)

and I had no response to that. It was true. Dont deny it. And Jericho gets a mild reaction. Thats all.

[IronTank]

Did I say HHH was on smackdown? I didnt think I did....

So how is HHH going to get the World Title then?

[reignoffire]

So how is HHH going to get the World Title then?

Married to the booker?

[IronTank]

Married to the booker?

Ya that makes sense.

[reignoffire]

Ya that makes sense.

Uh yeah it does....why do you think his push went on years? Because the fans were dying to see his 20 minute promos everyweek? That must explain the steep decline in buisness...

[IronTank]

Uh yeah it does....why do you think his push went on years? Because the fans were dying to see his 20 minute promos everyweek? That must explain the steep decline in buisness...

The same reason why Austin, The Rock, HBK, Bret, Taker, etc. HHH and them were that damn good. Decline in business? Well HHH was apart of the main event in WM 21, which had one of the best WM burates ever. The main event was heavily promoted. Like Pat Patterson said, "You don't push aside someone that is that good."

[reignoffire]

The same reason why Austin, The Rock, HBK, Bret, Taker, etc. HHH and them were that damn good. Decline in business? Well HHH was apart of the main event in WM 21, which had one of the best WM burates ever. The main event was heavily promoted. Like Pat Patterson said, "You don't push aside someone that is that good."

What about the weekly crappy rating? The HUGE decline in house show attendence? The generally poor PPV buy rates? Slumps in merchandise? Coincidence?

Wrestlemania 21 sold on its name. EVERY wrestlemania has a huge buy rate, so Im not buying that HHH did that at all.

[IronTank]

What about the weekly crappy rating? The HUGE decline in house show attendence? The generally poor PPV buy rates? Slumps in merchandise? Coincidence?

Wrestlemania 21 sold on its name. EVERY wrestlemania has a huge buy rate, so Im not buying that HHH did that at all.

Well the ratings without HHH are about the same. Wrestlemania was highly promoted on the Batista/HHH match. I wouldn't say their weekly ratings are crap. In Canada the ratings and attendance for shows are about the same, so theres no decline in Canada. In Canada, RAW is the number one rated show on Canadian TV, but in the US its a little different. I'm not surprised about the decline in house show's, the cards pretty much suck usually, with the exception of a couple of matches. Every WM probably has a good buyrate, but this years had a one of the best of all time...... I wonder why? Slumps in merchandise? HHH is at fault of this? You want to talk about rating decines? When Benoit was champ ratings went down, but when HHH regained the title, they went back up. Coincidence?

[ironmaiden01]

Eddy and Jericho don't get crowd response? I'm not even going to bother disputing that one...

it's amazing thue styill get a reaction after what the wwe did witht them. thecrwod is silent onm smackdown because the showis terrible. eddie and jericho were the most popular in the royal rumble with batista.

[alex england]

I recently caught an editon of smackdown with a friend who hasnt watched wwe since bret left around 97 after the segment where eddie reveals the secret, this is what he said:

'how bored does this crowd look? you cant even hear any reaction'. And thats a guy who hasnt seen one piece of wrestling since 1997, noticing the lack of crowd enthusiasim (and this was after the 'devestating' secret was revealed, even then crickets could be heard chirping.)

and I had no response to that. It was true. Dont deny it. And Jericho gets a mild reaction. Thats all.

I agree. the whole Eddie heal turn has been totally unengaging.

[reignoffire]

Well the ratings without HHH are about the same. Wrestlemania was highly promoted on the Batista/HHH match. I wouldn't say their weekly ratings are crap. In Canada the ratings and attendance for shows are about the same, so theres no decline in Canada. In Canada, RAW is the number one rated show on Canadian TV, but in the US its a little different. I'm not surprised about the decline in house show's, the cards pretty much suck usually, with the exception of a couple of matches. Every WM probably has a good buyrate, but this years had a one of the best of all time...... I wonder why? Slumps in merchandise? HHH is at fault of this? You want to talk about rating decines? When Benoit was champ ratings went down, but when HHH regained the title, they went back up. Coincidence?

Posts like yours really do make me wonder if the average net fan is as 'smart' as they are supposed to be....your completely blind to the facts.

Oh in Canada WWE is number one? Well, in Germany, David Hasselhoff is one of the biggest pop stars ever, so lets start promoting him in the US.....son, the US market is the only one WWE really cares about. They turn to foriegn soil when the chips are down because they have been so starved of wwe, they will devour any crap the wwe produces. Now I know you probably believe everything Vince and HHH and the WWE say, so you probably buy that crap that those markets are super important to wwe. So why only turn to them when ratings in the states get so bad?

Also, what show does just about every wrestling fan want to see, even if the current product sucks? Thats right champ, Wrestlemania. If the buyrates for that indicated the overall health of the product, wwe would be breaking records for tv and house show attendence and ratings, not barely managing to scrape along and loosing $10 million profit in under a year....but of course your not going to see this. Your blind devotion to HHH won't allow you to.

You can say I hate him all you like, but I used to love the guy. I thought he was brilliant untill around when he came back after his quad injury. I, just like many fans, got bored of him squashing everyone and keeping the focus on him when he got the title. I've said before why I believe some of you like him still so I am not gonna reiterate that, but I do belive his mega push has hurt the company, in terms of buisness and creativity.


And you think HHH leaving, after five or six years of dominating shows, for two or three months is really going to repair the damaged product? The damage has been done....thats like blowing a hole in a boat and jumping off before it sinks, and then saying 'wow, I wonder why its not staying afloat'.... Its too late to stop the decline.

[mlf4127]

I don't know if ratings are better but I miss HHH. I also miss Batista on Raw.

[*ShaGGs*]

What about the weekly crappy rating? The HUGE decline in house show attendence? The generally poor PPV buy rates? Slumps in merchandise? Coincidence?

Wrestlemania 21 sold on its name. EVERY wrestlemania has a huge buy rate, so Im not buying that HHH did that at all.

Ratings have been steady for a LONG time. PPV buyrates have slumped because of the amount of ppvs a year, the ones HHH is on still do well though, SMACKDOWNs ppvs do horrible because smackdown is run by morons.

Is there a point to you being in threads revolving around HHH? All you do is blindly abuse the guy who doesnt give a **** about you, is this some sort of nerd vandetta? Seriously you spend so much freaking time abusing a guy who will never know that you abuse him.

[reignoffire]

Ratings have been steady for a LONG time. PPV buyrates have slumped because of the amount of ppvs a year, the ones HHH is on still do well though, SMACKDOWNs ppvs do horrible because smackdown is run by morons.

Is there a point to you being in threads revolving around HHH? All you do is blindly abuse the guy who doesnt give a **** about you, is this some sort of nerd vandetta? Seriously you spend so much freaking time abusing a guy who will never know that you abuse him.

And you spent a lot of time kissing guys asses who dont give a **** about you, so that makes us two sides of a different coin. It just annoys me how stupid some people are and blind.

[*ShaGGs*]

And you spent a lot of time kissing guys asses who dont give a **** about you, so that makes us two sides of a different coin. It just annoys me how stupid some people are and blind.

I state facts, i dont just attack people for liking certain wrestlers. I dont care if someone says 'masters is my favourite wrestler' im like 'ok he likes that wrestler, cool'. Yet when someone says 'HHH is my favourite wrestler' you're right in there abusing the person that said it and bringing up conspiracy theories about his immense backstage control .

[Jows073]

The same reason why Austin, The Rock, HBK, Bret, Taker, etc. HHH and them were that damn good. Decline in business? Well HHH was apart of the main event in WM 21, which had one of the best WM burates ever. The main event was heavily promoted. Like Pat Patterson said, "You don't push aside someone that is that good."

Wrestlemania will say well regardless of who is in the main event. To give HHH all the credit for the good buyrates is ridicolous.

[Peepster]

Eddy and Jericho don't get crowd response? I'm not even going to bother disputing that one...

Did you just pull a usual HardGainer82 turtle or what??? You think Eddie and Y2J get's crowd reaction?? Yeah.... as much as someone like Masters does.