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  1. #1
    Registered User $|-|U(V)AYeL's Avatar
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    Creatine.. useless?

    I was talking to my teacher about Creatine who is a biologist. He said that Creatine is ALWAYS.. and he meant ALWAYS.. cleaned out by the kidneys and you just piss out. "The bodybuilders should just pour the creatine down the drain.." - Teacher. Can anyone (w/ evidence) prove him right or wrong? Thank you.
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    Registered User Cogar's Avatar
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    Muscle phosphocreatine increased 45% following the first supplementation bout, decreased 22% during the 30-day washout period, and increased 25% following the second bout.

    J Strength Cond Res. 2004 Feb;18(1):162-7. Related Articles, Links

    Effects of repeated creatine supplementation on muscle, plasma, and urine creatine levels.

    Rawson ES, Persky AM, Price TB, Clarkson PM.

    Department of Exercise Science, University of Massachusetts, Amherst, Massachusetts 01003, USA. erawson@bloomu.edu

    The purpose of this case study was to examine the effects of repeated creatine administration on muscle phosphocreatine, plasma creatine, and urine creatine. One male subject (age, 32 years; body mass, 78.4 kg; height, 160 cm; resistance training experience, 15 years) ingested creatine (20 g.d(-1) for 5 days) during 2 bouts separated by a 30-day washout period. Muscle phosphocreatine was measured before and after supplementation. On day 1 of supplementation, blood samples were taken immediately before and hourly for 5 hours following ingestion of 5 g of creatine, and a pharmacokinetic analysis of plasma creatine was conducted. Twenty-four-hour urine collections were conducted before and for 5 days during supplementation. Muscle phosphocreatine increased 45% following the first supplementation bout, decreased 22% during the 30-day washout period, and increased 25% following the second bout. There were no meaningful differences in plasma creatine pharmacokinetic parameters between bouts 1 and 2. Total urine creatine losses during supplementation were 63.2 and 63.4 g during bouts 1 and 2, respectively. The major findings were that (a) a 30-day washout period is insufficient time for muscle phosphocreatine to return to baseline following creatine supplementation but is sufficient time for plasma and urine creatine levels to return to presupplementation values; (b) postsupplementation muscle phosphocreatine levels were similar following bouts 1 and 2 despite 23% higher presupplementation muscle phosphocreatine before bout 2; and (c) the increased muscle phosphocreatine that persisted throughout the 30-day washout period corresponded with maintenance of increased body mass (+2.0 kg). Athletes should be aware that the washout period for muscle creatine to return to baseline levels may be longer than 30 days in some individuals, and this may be accompanied by a persistent increase in body mass.

    Publication Types:

    * Clinical Trial


    PMID: 14971966 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=14971966
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    Registered User 1MikeD's Avatar
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    Wink

    Try creatine and tell me if it works or not.
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    Registered User Cogar's Avatar
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    When supplemented with exogenous creatine, intramuscular and cerebral stores of creatine and its phosphorylated form, phosphocreatine, become elevated.

    Pharmacol Rev. 2001 Jun;53(2):161-76. Related Articles, Links

    Clinical pharmacology of the dietary supplement creatine monohydrate.

    Persky AM, Brazeau GA.

    Department of Pharmaceutics, College of Pharmacy, University of Florida, Gainesville, Florida 32610, USA. apersky@ufl.edu

    Creatine is a dietary supplement purported to improve exercise performance and increase fat-free mass. Recent research on creatine has demonstrated positive therapeutic results in various clinical applications. The purpose of this review is to focus on the clinical pharmacology and therapeutic application of creatine supplementation. Creatine is a naturally occurring compound obtained in humans from endogenous production and consumption through the diet. When supplemented with exogenous creatine, intramuscular and cerebral stores of creatine and its phosphorylated form, phosphocreatine, become elevated. The increase of these stores can offer therapeutic benefits by preventing ATP depletion, stimulating protein synthesis or reducing protein degradation, and stabilizing biological membranes. Evidence from the exercise literature has shown athletes benefit from supplementation by increasing muscular force and power, reducing fatigue in repeated bout activities, and increasing muscle mass. These benefits have been applied to disease models of Huntington's, Parkinson's, Duchenne muscular dystrophy, and applied clinically in patients with gyrate atrophy, various neuromuscular disorders, McArdle's disease, and congestive heart failure. This review covers the basics of creatine synthesis and transport, proposed mechanisms of action, pharmacokinetics of exogenous creatine administration, creatine use in disease models, side effects associated with use, and issues on product quality.

    Publication Types:

    * Review
    * Review, Tutorial


    PMID: 11356982 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=11356982
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  5. #5
    Registered User Cogar's Avatar
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    Ingestion of creatine monohydrate at a rate of 20 g/d for 5-6 d was shown to increase the total creatine concentration of human skeletal muscle by approximately 25 mmol/kg dry mass, some 30% of this in phosphorylated form as phosphocreatine.

    Am J Clin Nutr. 2000 Aug;72(2 Suppl):607S-17S. Related Articles, Links

    Does dietary creatine supplementation play a role in skeletal muscle metabolism and performance?

    Casey A, Greenhaff PL.

    Centre for Human Sciences, Defence Evaluation and Research Agency, Farnborough, United Kingdom. acasey@dera.gov.uk

    Fatigue sustained during short-term, high-intensity exercise in humans is associated with the inability of skeletal muscle to maintain a high rate of anaerobic ATP production from phosphocreatine hydrolysis. Ingestion of creatine monohydrate at a rate of 20 g/d for 5-6 d was shown to increase the total creatine concentration of human skeletal muscle by approximately 25 mmol/kg dry mass, some 30% of this in phosphorylated form as phosphocreatine. A positive relation was then shown between muscle creatine uptake and improvements in performance during repeated bouts of maximal exercise. However, there is no evidence that increasing intake > 20-30 g/d for 5-6 d has any potentiating effect on creatine uptake or performance. In individuals in whom the initial total creatine concentration already approached 150 mmol/kg dry mass, neither creatine uptake nor an effect on phosphocreatine resynthesis or performance was found after supplementation. Loss of ATP during heavy anaerobic exercise was found to decline after creatine ingestion, despite an increase in work production. These results suggest that improvements in performance are due to parallel improvements in ATP resynthesis during exercise as a consequence of increased phosphocreatine availability. Creatine uptake is augmented by combining creatine supplementation with exercise and with carbohydrate ingestion.

    Publication Types:

    * Review
    * Review, Tutorial


    PMID: 10919967 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=10919967
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  6. #6
    Registered User Cogar's Avatar
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    Short-term creatine supplementation (e.g. 20 g/day for 5-7 days) has typically been reported to increase total creatine content by 10-30% and phosphocreatine stores by 10-40%.

    Mol Cell Biochem. 2003 Feb;244(1-2):89-94. Related Articles, Links

    Effects of creatine supplementation on performance and training adaptations.

    Kreider RB.

    Exercise and Sport Nutrition Laboratory, Center for Exercise, Nutrition and Preventive Health Research, Department of Health, Human Performance and Recreation, Baylor University, Waco, TX 76798-7313, USA. Richard_Kreider@baylor.edu

    Creatine has become a popular nutritional supplement among athletes. Recent research has also suggested that there may be a number of potential therapeutic uses of creatine. This paper reviews the available research that has examined the potential ergogenic value of creatine supplementation on exercise performance and training adaptations. Review of the literature indicates that over 500 research studies have evaluated the effects of creatine supplementation on muscle physiology and/or exercise capacity in healthy, trained, and various diseased populations. Short-term creatine supplementation (e.g. 20 g/day for 5-7 days) has typically been reported to increase total creatine content by 10-30% and phosphocreatine stores by 10-40%. Of the approximately 300 studies that have evaluated the potential ergogenic value of creatine supplementation, about 70% of these studies report statistically significant results while remaining studies generally report non-significant gains in performance. No study reports a statistically significant ergolytic effect. For example, short-term creatine supplementation has been reported to improve maximal power/strength (5-15%), work performed during sets of maximal effort muscle contractions (5-15%), single-effort sprint performance (1-5%), and work performed during repetitive sprint performance (5-15%). Moreover, creatine supplementation during training has been reported to promote significantly greater gains in strength, fat free mass, and performance primarily of high intensity exercise tasks. Although not all studies report significant results, the preponderance of scientific evidence indicates that creatine supplementation appears to be a generally effective nutritional ergogenic aid for a variety of exercise tasks in a number of athletic and clinical populations.

    Publication Types:

    * Review
    * Review, Tutorial


    PMID: 12701815 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=12701815
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  7. #7
    Registered User $|-|U(V)AYeL's Avatar
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    Cargo:

    In your first post it says the guy pissed out about 63.4 g of creatine! that's so ****ing much... I guess my teacher was right.
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    Originally posted by $|-|U(V)AYeL
    Cargo:

    In your first post it says the guy pissed out about 63.4 g of creatine! that's so ****ing much... I guess my teacher was right.
    No, he wasn't.
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    part of DA...keep it on the QT
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    Creatine works, your teacher don't know whats up.
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    Originally posted by $|-|U(V)AYeL
    Cargo:

    In your first post it says the guy pissed out about 63.4 g of creatine! that's so ****ing much... I guess my teacher was right.
    Cargo?

    Bouts 1 and 2 were 5 days at 20 grams a day. Does that add up to 64 grams?

    It appears you need to learn to read more carefully.
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  11. #11
    New Member Bugz's Avatar
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    LOL Owned!!!
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    Originally posted by $|-|U(V)AYeL
    Cargo:

    In your first post it says the guy pissed out about 63.4 g of creatine! that's so ****ing much... I guess my teacher was right.
    Go find a better college,
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  13. #13
    Registered User bofeity's Avatar
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    I think your teacher might have been thinking of "creatinine" which is not exaclty like creatine. Creatinine is not reabsorbed in the kidney filtration process.

    Maybe?
    Last edited by bofeity; 07-25-2004 at 10:51 PM.
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    It works but it depends on if you do it right or not. You should be taking 3g of glucose per 1g of creatine from what I've been told. The glucose is needed as a transport agent that carries the creatine into the muscle cells.

    Creatine also increases water retention so your muscles should look bigger due to more water in the cells.

    Now whether or not it's useless depends on how you are taking it.
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    Originally posted by 1MikeD
    Try creatine and tell me if it works or not.
    bump
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    What sort of teacher was this ? Cause you really shouldn't ask your philosophy teacher to comment on creatine. Generally you would consult the physiology teacher, or for lack of better any other teacher that can read first year physiology books and/or search the medline ... as "cargo" clearly demonstrated.

    If you had read the pertinent facts of the first study, what would have stood out is that muscle PC increased drastically (Don't see where that creatine could have come from ? Do you think it magically appeared ?) and remained elevated even after 30 day cessation.
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    Re: Creatine.. useless?

    Originally posted by $|-|U(V)AYeL
    I was talking to my teacher about Creatine who is a biologist. He said that Creatine is ALWAYS.. and he meant ALWAYS.. cleaned out by the kidneys and you just piss out. "The bodybuilders should just pour the creatine down the drain.." - Teacher. Can anyone (w/ evidence) prove him right or wrong? Thank you.
    Hyp3r are you listening?

    This is a great example of mainstream science not being in tune with real world results.

    Creatine works, plain and simple. I don't know all the science, but it definately works.
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    Squats traps to grass Defiant1's Avatar
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    Originally posted by 1MikeD
    Try creatine and tell me if it works or not.
    That's what I say about volume training with lots of sets. It works.
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    Thumbs up

    Originally posted by Defiant1
    That's what I say about volume training with lots of sets. It works.
    Volume kicks A$$
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    I have found creatine to be totally useless and a waste of money.
    I have tried different "brands" of creatine and different ways of taking it, and it did nothing for me other than grow a lump under one of my armpits.
    Fortunately, after ceasing use, that lump went away.

    Another useless supplement, by the way is NO2 / NOX. It hindered my stamina and gave me peculiar pains in my chest (I did not have high cholesterol or blood pressure either. Prior to taking it at least I was in excellent health).
    I will say that NO2 is good for the occasional buzz and aphrodesiac, but only if taken on occasion. Taken regularly (which is what the creators recommended) it impedes all forms of performance, including mental focus and concentration.
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    I don't know the scientifics of it, but creatine has helped me a lot. I increased in strength and size quite a bit by taking five grams a day, the dosage it says on the container. Does anyone know if I should be taking more than that to see bigger gains?
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    your techer is an idiot or he does not want you to use it.
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    Re: Creatine.. useless?

    Originally posted by $|-|U(V)AYeL
    I was talking to my teacher about Creatine who is a biologist. He said that Creatine is ALWAYS.. and he meant ALWAYS.. cleaned out by the kidneys and you just piss out. "The bodybuilders should just pour the creatine down the drain.." - Teacher. Can anyone (w/ evidence) prove him right or wrong? Thank you.
    and last year my biology teacher told us that is works and he used it before.
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  24. #24
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    Re: Re: Creatine.. useless?

    Originally posted by Twiggy316225
    and last year my biology teacher told us that is works and he used it before.
    Well, that should end this discussion. LOL.

    Creatine doesn't work for everybody, but it does work nice for some of us.
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  25. #25
    i gotta stay fly-Y-yY-yyy zuche's Avatar
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    haha your biologist friend is a dickhead and doesnt know what hes talking about

    try taking your creatine with a good glucose boost, ie gatorade.
    results have been proven for about 20 years, why do you think people risk damage to kidneys to take this powder?

    its highly efficient if used correctly
    i think that if your using too much, like ten grams a day you may be urinating nearly all of it out because of the liquids you need to absorb to stay highdrated on such a high amount.
    ie a gallon daily.
    depending on body weight

    stick with 5-6 grams with glucose mix
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    i gotta stay fly-Y-yY-yyy zuche's Avatar
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    creatine simply boosts water to your muscles, what would it matter if you piss it out in 3 hours for, its a direct effect

    swallow - translate direction to water weight in cells. eh

    its debatable but it definitely allows higher amounts of weight to be lifted, ie reps as well
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  27. #27
    Registered User raidersftball18's Avatar
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    I agree that it only works for some people...i am not one. When i first tried creatine, i took 15-20 grams a day for the loading period, then 5grams a day for maitenence. I saw very little results in stength gain, i had bad stomach pains, i grew a larger water gut, and got acne. The only positive was the increase in energy i had at the gym. I discontinued use.

    After reading and researching the stuff and how to properly take it, i decided to give it another try. I only weigh 150lbs, so this time, i took 10g a day for loading, and 3 grams a day for maitenance. I also drank much more water throughout the day. This time around, i experienced no water gut, no stomach pains. However i still got some acne, and i didn't have the same increase in energy i had before. But worst of all, i didn;t see any results. So once again i discontinued use.
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  28. #28
    WSsicks is a dong F@G sicosico's Avatar
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    In most of the research creatine worked for only higly trained atheletes in high intensity highly stressing program , so I suggest you do every muscle twice in a split or either hst and max ot
    Last edited by sicosico; 08-26-2004 at 09:44 PM.
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  29. #29
    D A N Z Danz's Avatar
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    Creatine 100% definitley works and I'm talking from experience.
    I experienced....

    -Increased strength
    -Increased workout endurance
    -Extra energy/vitality
    -Increased recovery times
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  30. #30
    Crazy rambling hobo. stm4710's Avatar
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    Originally posted by summervspunk
    I don't know the scientifics of it, but creatine has helped me a lot. I increased in strength and size quite a bit by taking five grams a day, the dosage it says on the container. Does anyone know if I should be taking more than that to see bigger gains?
    I have read that about 5g is all you can absorb in a day.
    A trainer I talked to as well as several sites said that 5g is good,more than that it gets pissed away and is not healthy.

    I have been trying some liquid creatine going by the directions and I get a really dry mouth, but im not sure what the results are so far.
    "90% of the game is half mental"-Yogi Bera

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