It’s not detailed (meant for the general public) but the figure on bottom pg. 3 is helpful. Dane county data https://publichealthmdc.com/document...a_snapshot.pdf The CDC apparently has similar preliminary results, but I’ve yet to see the data.
That said, the virus is almost certainly not replicating as extensively in the vaccinated group. What the CDC has claimed is that there are equal viral loads in specimens taken from the upper respiratory tract. That is not the same as equal viral loads throughout the body, such as in LRT where severe disease complications usually arise. Also they need to check for putatively replicating virus, not just rna.
|
Thread: Will you get vaccinated?
-
08-03-2021, 02:26 PM #3721"Seen in the light of evolution, biology is, perhaps, intellectually the most satisfying and inspiring science. Without that light it becomes a pile of sundry facts -- some of them interesting or curious but making no meaningful picture as a whole."
-
08-03-2021, 02:26 PM #3722
-
08-03-2021, 02:40 PM #3723
Yes, I actually did read couple of studies. The caveat is that those were going by PCR cycles from nasal samples, so you bring up a good point. I'm breaking a cardinal rule by assuming the similar nasal load in vaccinated breakthrough cases and unvaccinated individuals correlates with systemic load. Given the decreased symptoms, there's a good chance it isn't the same, in which case vaccinated delta carriers are only equally likely to spread the virus, but would not be as likely to be the nidus of a new concerning strain. Either way, since we're less likely to show symptoms and can have the same nasal load of virus, masking to protect others still makes sense.
-
08-03-2021, 02:42 PM #3724
-
-
08-03-2021, 02:45 PM #3725
-
08-03-2021, 03:57 PM #3726
-
08-03-2021, 05:29 PM #3727
-
08-03-2021, 07:04 PM #3728
-
-
08-03-2021, 07:07 PM #3729
-
08-03-2021, 07:09 PM #3730
For a PhD you are dumber than fuk. You should really take more micro.
Systemic immunity does not take place in the upper respiratory tract. That’s where the virus spreads from. Viral infections are a battle waged at the cellular level in the interstitial spaces by macro****es and white blood cells, and if at the intracellular level, the cells have identified enough genomic sequence of that specific antigen to create a cell mediated response. It’s way beyond a surface protein that wasn’t even known to be important to the virus. Learn more about the small things, the bigger picture will make a lot more sense.Last edited by Plateauplower; 08-03-2021 at 07:19 PM.
-
08-03-2021, 07:28 PM #3731
-
08-03-2021, 07:29 PM #3732
-
-
08-03-2021, 07:41 PM #3733
-
08-03-2021, 07:58 PM #3734
-
08-03-2021, 08:13 PM #3735
-
08-03-2021, 08:18 PM #3736
-
-
08-03-2021, 10:46 PM #3737
This is expected of you. On more than one occasion I’ve seen you make elementary mistakes in your posts. I’ll correct them again. To add, your descriptions of basic immunology are shameful.
Pathogens have differential tissue tropism, and one of the factors that influences this tropism is how well the immune system, both innate and adaptive, control pathogen growth rates. Influenza for example is more likely to disseminate to and aggressively replicate in the lungs of immunocompromised hosts. Immunity induced through vaccination, both cell-mediated and humoral, can do the same thing. This is why for example, AstraZeneca’s vaccine did not significantly lower replicating virus in the URT but it did in the LRT of macaques during animal studies. By doing this it also reduced disease severity. Your comment about systemic immunity has no relevance. Immune players (including adaptive) are recruitable to tissues.
Some pro tips for next time: Don’t say macro****e and white blood cells. Macro****es are white blood cells. Also not all intracellular mechanisms for destroying pathogens are via cell-mediated responses. The rest of your post has no relevance. “It’s way beyond a surface protein that wasn’t even known to be important to the virus.” Trying way too hard my dude. The very obvious point of my post is that vaccine induced immunity can differentially affect pathogen replication in the lower vs upper respiratory tract. Do you deny this?"Seen in the light of evolution, biology is, perhaps, intellectually the most satisfying and inspiring science. Without that light it becomes a pile of sundry facts -- some of them interesting or curious but making no meaningful picture as a whole."
-
08-04-2021, 12:27 AM #3738
-
08-04-2021, 12:29 AM #3739
-
08-04-2021, 04:56 AM #3740
Well it's a forum and I'm not spending 3 hours copying and pasting things from medical journals, so there will be occasional mistakes. Macro****es are a type of white blood cell, part of the immune system, but not antigen specific as is the case with cell mediated response and long-term immunity. Disease severity can be lowered, but that doesn't necessarily change communicability of the virus, remember two weeks to flatten the curve cause asymptomatic spreaders? I argue that disease severity is pretty low if you don't know you have the virus. Do you agree? The virus infects more than the lungs, and I don't really care how Astra Zeneca and test monkeys. I don't follow the vaccine scene other than seeing that they are not doing a very good job currently in preventing infections/transmission. They do appear to reduce symptoms and risk of a sever outcome and I've posted that numerous times, but I have not looked into the physiological mechanism, in humans or monkeys.
Last edited by Plateauplower; 08-04-2021 at 05:11 AM.
-
-
08-04-2021, 05:52 AM #3741
-
08-04-2021, 06:26 AM #3742
Actress Jennifer Aniston recently said people who are not yet vaccinated against COVID-19 “just don’t listen to facts” and mostly base their opinions on “fear or propaganda” and revealed that she’s cut ties with the unvaccinated.
Taking it a step further, Aniston said that it’s a “moral and professional obligation” for the unvaccinated to identify themselves in public settings.
“There’s still a large group of people who are anti-vaxxers or just don’t listen to the facts. It’s a real shame,” the former “Friends” actress told InStyle. “I’ve just lost a few people in my weekly routine who have refused or did not disclose [whether or not they had been vaccinated], and it was unfortunate.”
“I feel it’s your moral and professional obligation to inform, since we’re not all podded up and being tested every single day,” the 52-year-old added. “It’s tricky because everyone is entitled to their own opinion — but a lot of opinions don’t feel based in anything except fear or propaganda.”Air Force Veteran 1976 - 1999 - Cannabis Enthusiast since the 1960's
Retired at 40 Crew - Social distancing expert - Living the Dream
I use the gender neutral pronouns "Fukker/Fukkers" a lot.
****** I don't always agree with the memes I post ******
I tell it like it is, if you want smoke blown up your ass or something sugar coated. I suggest you get a Hooker and a powdered donut.
-
08-04-2021, 07:15 AM #3743Air Force Veteran 1976 - 1999 - Cannabis Enthusiast since the 1960's
Retired at 40 Crew - Social distancing expert - Living the Dream
I use the gender neutral pronouns "Fukker/Fukkers" a lot.
****** I don't always agree with the memes I post ******
I tell it like it is, if you want smoke blown up your ass or something sugar coated. I suggest you get a Hooker and a powdered donut.
-
08-04-2021, 08:04 AM #3744
-
-
08-04-2021, 08:07 AM #3745
lol @ fear of government tyranny and the collectivist mindset being "immoral" and propaganda.
lol @ a celebrity living by the same rules as everyone else and being out of touch with reality. Compliance among the elite is different than compliance of the poor and blue collars.One party system; Most Republicans are Democrats, but no Democrats are Republicans.
Hayek and Mises were right; they're all socialists.
"To Call something fair or unfair is a subjective value judgment and not liable to any verification" Ludwig Von Mises
-
08-04-2021, 08:23 AM #3746
You're ignoring an enormous portion of the immune system simply because most of the preliminary research on SARS CoV2 has focused on cellular and not humoral immunity. On top of the fact that we have NALT and BALT, it would be foolish to assume cytokines, secretory IgA, and a host of other immune responses utilized by your nasal mucosa don't have an effect on infection or transmission. It's important to know what we don't know, and not make statements that imply what we don't completely understand yet isn't relevant. Humoral immunity is probably very important against CoV2.
You say the vaccines don't seem to be preventing infection/transmission well, but that's a very vague statement. The R numbers are hugely affected by behavior. It's not all about the vaccines, which is why masks are still important. Especially when we don't have a vaccine against the strain with the highest R naught.
-
08-04-2021, 08:26 AM #3747
Latest variant to hit NY state
Air Force Veteran 1976 - 1999 - Cannabis Enthusiast since the 1960's
Retired at 40 Crew - Social distancing expert - Living the Dream
I use the gender neutral pronouns "Fukker/Fukkers" a lot.
****** I don't always agree with the memes I post ******
I tell it like it is, if you want smoke blown up your ass or something sugar coated. I suggest you get a Hooker and a powdered donut.
-
08-04-2021, 08:52 AM #3748
-
-
08-04-2021, 09:02 AM #3749
I have no idea what y'all talking aboot viral loads etc. and can't even do sober math crew. which is like a disability but that's another topic.
So, 70% of population has had at least one dose and of those rest, probably half has natural immunity from virus or are kids? Why are those unvaxxed being bullied so much, I mean it is getting weird at this point.
-
08-04-2021, 09:11 AM #3750
Yes there are a lot of things not fully understood in immunology.
As for the bolded, my point is that's a pretty $hity "vaccine" then. More like a preemptive treatment. Vaccines are supposed to create immunity, correct? So when they don't, is that called a "vaccine failure"? I'm glad the smallpox vaccine was more effective than this. I still 100% agree it has benefits and at risk people should get it for the reduction of chance of a bad outcome, but the push for everyone to get vaccinated with a vaccine that doesn't prevent infection, and doesn't prevent transmission seems kind of silly, don't you think? It's available for those who want it, it will likely reduce their course of illness, but it is not without risk in and of itself (as is the case with about everything).
Immunity: Protection from an infectious disease. If you are immune to a disease, you can be exposed to it without becoming infected.
Vaccine: A product that stimulates a person’s immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, protecting the person from that disease.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/imz-basics.htmLast edited by Plateauplower; 08-04-2021 at 09:18 AM.
Bookmarks