AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[DandyLion1]

Sorry, I know that this has been answered already but can't seem to find it. Which sets are the warm ups actually necessary for?

Never mind, found it! First three exercises yes?

[5penn]

Never mind, found it! First three exercises yes?

correct - Squat, Bench Press, Bent Over Row

1st warmup = 25% of working set
2nd warmup = 50% of working set

[DandyLion1]

correct - Squat, Bench Press, Bent Over Row

1st warmup = 25% of working set
2nd warmup = 50% of working set

Thanks
Also just trying to eat at maintenance atm (ie when I'm hungry, not measuring all too much atm)
Is it best to just watch the scales and if I start dropping, start upping my cals a little? (I know to up them if I start failing reps but if the scales start dropping first?) I'm a female at 21%bf according to body measurements, don't have a caliper. BMI is 22.2. Am on cycle 1, week 2 so just starting out!

[Anaco]

Just started with this program last week and I'm excited about doing it, but I am scared for my lower back.
I've had lower back pains since some time now and now I'm afraid of doing a couple of these exercises mainly the stiff legged deadlifts.

Will I be better off by doing another program?

[nightanole]

Thanks
Also just trying to eat at maintenance atm (ie when I'm hungry, not measuring all too much atm)
Is it best to just watch the scales and if I start dropping, start upping my cals a little? (I know to up them if I start failing reps but if the scales start dropping first?) I'm a female at 21%bf according to body measurements, don't have a caliper. BMI is 22.2. Am on cycle 1, week 2 so just starting out!

base diet is 100g of fats/protein and 200-300g of carbs.

And you are not 21%, that is dam relaxed abs for a female. Its possible, but highly unlikely to happen just by under eating.

Id just start a food log, and go with your plan of up the cals a little if you start dropping. Just starting allpro is good for a bout a half pound per week weight loss.

[nightanole]

Just started with this program last week and I'm excited about doing it, but I am scared for my lower back.
I've had lower back pains since some time now and now I'm afraid of doing a couple of these exercises mainly the stiff legged deadlifts.

Will I be better off by doing another program?

I get this question a lot and i never understand it. "i dont know how to lift with my back", " i dont want to strength train my back". Just start out light so you build up strength and learn to lift properly. Else you will end up throwing out your back picking up a gallon of milk out of the fridge some day.

[xamcro]

This has probably been asked before, so my deepest apologies for wasting time, but I'm wondering how much my form is allowed to break on a squat to qualify as a rep?

Background: at my current weight, I can do 2x12 reps, however, those last 4-5 reps or so, I have trouble maintaining upright - my back remains straight, but I can feel my torso dipping down slightly as I come up out of the hole, and it feels like my lower back is doing a lot of the work. To do the program right and achieve maximum gains, should I discount these last few reps and say "I didn't do it right, repeat the weight", or can I push on to higher weight?

EDIT: second question: I just figured out I've been doing romanian deadlifts this entire time; can I continue, or should I switch to true stiff legged deadlifts?

[Anaco]

I get this question a lot and i never understand it. "i dont know how to lift with my back", " i dont want to strength train my back". Just start out light so you build up strength and learn to lift properly. Else you will end up throwing out your back picking up a gallon of milk out of the fridge some day.

Thanks for the fast reply, the video explaining the SLDL linked in the Q&A (I can't link it here because I don't have 50 posts yet) says to arch my back by pushing my belly forward, is this correct? I see a lot of other information telling me to keep my back straight by tightening my abs. Also what will the difference be for my lower back?

[nightanole]

This has probably been asked before, so my deepest apologies for wasting time, but I'm wondering how much my form is allowed to break on a squat to qualify as a rep?

Background: at my current weight, I can do 2x12 reps, however, those last 4-5 reps or so, I have trouble maintaining upright - my back remains straight, but I can feel my torso dipping down slightly as I come up out of the hole, and it feels like my lower back is doing a lot of the work. To do the program right and achieve maximum gains, should I discount these last few reps and say "I didn't do it right, repeat the weight", or can I push on to higher weight?

EDIT: second question: I just figured out I've been doing romanian deadlifts this entire time; can I continue, or should I switch to true stiff legged deadlifts?

You have a quad weakness in the squat. A good accessory is the hack squat. As far as your form question is concerned, if you push progression you will get stronger using that form, you will not correct it. You do not have to have perfect form, but you do have to have acceptable form. A few grinders or a few "squat goodmornings" without rounding your back, causing a knee cave, or other dangerous compromise, is allowed. No beginner is going to have perfect repeatible form for years. You just have to make sure your form is good enough to target the correct muscles, and not put you in a compromised position.

As for the RDL question, if you can do them correctly you can continue doing them. They are hard to self learn so they are not part of most beginner routines. As long as you get max hamstring stretch, and do not form compromise, you can continue the rdl training.

[nightanole]

Thanks for the fast reply, the video explaining the SLDL linked in the Q&A (I can't link it here because I don't have 50 posts yet) says to arch my back by pushing my belly forward, is this correct? I see a lot of other information telling me to keep my back straight by tightening my abs. Also what will the difference be for my lower back?

Long story short, the first post was made when the earth was still cooling, by a 50+ year old, when youtube was still young. I only have the option of editing the first post for the first 48 hours after the thread hits 10k posts and auto locks. The last time that happened they auto locked the thread at 9500 in the middle of the week so i never had a chance to update the videos.

Anyway here is how to SLDL on this program:
Take a normal deadlift stance
bend knees as much as you like as long as it doesnt cause hip drop
bend down till your hamstrings go tight with a straight back, the weight should be over toes at this point, not mid foot like a normal dead
then pull back hard, the weight should not hit the ground between reps.
As you continue doing this your ROM will increase and you may have to use smaller plates or stand on a platform and do deficits, to keep the weight from touching the floor between reps. Some by the end of the program can get the bar in line with the top of the ankle.

The goal of the SLDL is max stretch of the hamstring, not move massive weight. At the end of the program you should be squatting alot more than you SLDL.

As far as your "core bracing" question. You can look up a chris duffin video on core bracing. The TLDR is you take in a big breath of air into your lower diaphragm , no chest rise, then you use your abs like a lifting belt and press hard against your diaphragm, like you are trying to push your belly button into your spine. You are not trying to tense your abs like a situp, all that does is pull down your rib cage and puts more stress on your spinal erectors. If you do it right you end up supporting the inside of your spine and prevent it from bending, locking every thing in place, and keeps you from relaxing down into the hole vs building tension on the way down. You never move your back position in the squat/dead/row. That is called flexion under load, and is not for beginners. AAAAnd you only breath at the top of the rep on the squat/dead, or you loose that air pocket that is supporting your spine.

[Surgicalburd]

I have two more questions regarding Week 2. I see that my first question has been partially answered already, but I just need som extra clarification. On Week 2 Heavy yesterday, I failed to complete squats and my curls at the full 9 reps. I read that I should drop the weight back down by 10%, but I also read opinions that you should keep the weight the same throughout and eventually you will build up strength as the weeks progress, even if you can't bang out the full sets. It would induce a FAIL at week 5 naturally. If I drop my squat by 10% and continue onward, would my Week 5 Heavy Day at the 10% decrease, if passed, be then grounds for increasing weight, or should I still do another Cycle at the 10% seeing as I started without doing it the full Cycle?

Also, my Preacher Curl at 70lb Heavy didn't get completed either. I know this is said to be an "extra exercise" since "people would have added it anyways" as AllPro states. I Completed my First Set at the full 9, but on set 2 my biceps just stopped contracting at all at rep 6. I took a short breather, and tried again but could only bang out 1 rep before total loss of contraction. I think I may have had too good of a test day and both my squat and preacher aren't realistic.....I HOPE I just had a bad day(pulled overtime and switched my schedule again back to 3rd shift(uncontrolled rotating). Should I drop that back too? Or should I give it another go? Ironically, my SLDL's used to be so hard to do, but my hams have started to adapt and 135 seems too easy all of a sudden...Bench and Rows seemed to have the appropriate struggle, so I think this is going well.

[nightanole]

I have two more questions regarding Week 2. I see that my first question has been partially answered already, but I just need som extra clarification. On Week 2 Heavy yesterday, I failed to complete squats and my curls at the full 9 reps. I read that I should drop the weight back down by 10%, but I also read opinions that you should keep the weight the same throughout and eventually you will build up strength as the weeks progress, even if you can't bang out the full sets. It would induce a FAIL at week 5 naturally. If I drop my squat by 10% and continue onward, would my Week 5 Heavy Day at the 10% decrease, if passed, be then grounds for increasing weight, or should I still do another Cycle at the 10% seeing as I started without doing it the full Cycle?

Also, my Preacher Curl at 70lb Heavy didn't get completed either. I know this is said to be an "extra exercise" since "people would have added it anyways" as AllPro states. I Completed my First Set at the full 9, but on set 2 my biceps just stopped contracting at all at rep 6. I took a short breather, and tried again but could only bang out 1 rep before total loss of contraction. I think I may have had too good of a test day and both my squat and preacher aren't realistic.....I HOPE I just had a bad day(pulled overtime and switched my schedule again back to 3rd shift(uncontrolled rotating). Should I drop that back too? Or should I give it another go? Ironically, my SLDL's used to be so hard to do, but my hams have started to adapt and 135 seems too easy all of a sudden...Bench and Rows seemed to have the appropriate struggle, so I think this is going well.

Weight adjustments after cycle 1 are not recommended. However the program must be ran with reps in the tank till 11 rep week when the over reach kicks in, else you will work too close to failure and the fatigue will build up too fast. Remember you can always bump more than 10% , just not less. Do you really want to spend 2.5-4 months using the same weight because you are ego lifting?

As a side note i never recommend preacher curls to beginners, the injury risk is too high.

[Time2Sleep00]

The goal of the SLDL is max stretch of the hamstring, not move massive weight. At the end of the program you should be squatting alot more than you SLDL.

Always felt my lower back while doing these. Cant feel the stretch on the hamstrings. Also the max I can bend down without being afraid that my back wont make it is at parallel with the ground. Should I lower the weight of my sldl so I can feel the stretch?

[nightanole]

Always felt my lower back while doing these. Cant feel the stretch on the hamstrings. Also the max I can bend down without being afraid that my back wont make it is at parallel with the ground. Should I lower the weight of my sldl so I can feel the stretch?

Most cant get the weight past the knees with proper form when they first start. It sounds like you are flexing your back, instead of letting the hamstrings do the work. Your torso shape should look the same standing up, as it does at the bottom of the lift. Remember you are trying to build up tension for the pull, not relaxing into a stretch.

[5penn]

hi nightanole,

currently doing the novice (3 x 4-8) for BP.

can we do the regular routine (2 x 8-12) on medium and light days or is that detrimental?

[nightanole]

hi nightanole,

currently doing the novice (3 x 4-8) for BP.

can we do the regular routine (2 x 8-12) on medium and light days or is that detrimental?

The point of 3x 4-8 is that you cant keep up with 2x 8-12. I dont think you will be able to just go from 3x 4-8 to 2x 8-12 with just a 10% weight change. You could try it, but if you fail reps that will be detrimental.

[5penn]

The point of 3x 4-8 is that you cant keep up with 2x 8-12. I dont think you will be able to just go from 3x 4-8 to 2x 8-12 with just a 10% weight change. You could try it, but if you fail reps that will be detrimental.

thanks, I asked because medium and light day this week (wk 1) felt a little too easy and that was with a 30 second rest today (light day)

I guess the impatience/frustrated part in me needs to get in-check

[nightanole]

thanks, I asked because medium and light day this week (wk 1) felt a little too easy and that was with a 30 second rest today (light day)

I guess the impatience/frustrated part in me needs to get in-check

8 rep week is easy, its the mini deload, its easier than the last week anyway.

[5penn]

8 rep week is easy, its the mini deload, its easier than the last week anyway.

true...thanks again

[briancl2]

The point of 3x 4-8 is that you cant keep up with 2x 8-12. I dont think you will be able to just go from 3x 4-8 to 2x 8-12 with just a 10% weight change. You could try it, but if you fail reps that will be detrimental.

What's the right progression for 3x8 on auto regulated?

6/6/6
7/6/6
7/7/6
7/7/7

or

6/6/6
7/6/6
8/6/6
8/7/6

[rlefebvr]

Hi, I've been training for 6 months on Fierce5 Intermediate, but have been thinking to switching the Allpro which would suit my beginner status a little better.

My question is about the volume on the squat. 8-10-12 reps seems like a lot for squats. I have never done more then 5 reps.

Isn't that a little much for such a taxing exercise. (my squat is at 195lbs x 5 as we speak.)

Ron

[PhantomEater]

I'm getting very sharp pain in my right forearm whilst bicep curling, I read to pull my elbows in more i tried it and it helped to aleviate some pain but on the 5th rep the pain was back and very sore, to the point of it throbbing after I stopped, what would you recommend I don't want to stop but is there another way? I don't know how much I move my wrists and next workout in 2 days is light so I could focus on making sure I keep it all non flexing? I'm really enjoying this workout I don't want to stop already

Thanks for any advice given

[nightanole]

What's the right progression for 3x8 on auto regulated?

6/6/6
7/6/6
7/7/6
7/7/7

or

6/6/6
7/6/6
8/6/6
8/7/6

24 reps total, there is no "pattern", some get more on the first set, some loose a rep or 2 on each set, some can do the same set over and over. if you can get in another rep, get in another rep, do wait because its not your 7/6/6 day.

[nightanole]

Hi, I've been training for 6 months on Fierce5 Intermediate, but have been thinking to switching the Allpro which would suit my beginner status a little better.

My question is about the volume on the squat. 8-10-12 reps seems like a lot for squats. I have never done more then 5 reps.

Isn't that a little much for such a taxing exercise. (my squat is at 195lbs x 5 as we speak.)

Ron

its 10-15% less working weight, thats it. Else you can do the novice pattern which is 3 sets of 4-8 reps with teh same 90 seconds or less rest.

[nightanole]

I'm getting very sharp pain in my right forearm whilst bicep curling, I read to pull my elbows in more i tried it and it helped to aleviate some pain but on the 5th rep the pain was back and very sore, to the point of it throbbing after I stopped, what would you recommend I don't want to stop but is there another way? I don't know how much I move my wrists and next workout in 2 days is light so I could focus on making sure I keep it all non flexing? I'm really enjoying this workout I don't want to stop already

Thanks for any advice given

supenation curls, assisted chinups. You need to change your angle of attack so max stress isnt when your forearm is parallel with the floor.

[briancl2]

24 reps total, there is no "pattern", some get more on the first set, some loose a rep or 2 on each set, some can do the same set over and over. if you can get in another rep, get in another rep, do wait because its not your 7/6/6 day.

Ok.. I think I can get to 24 reps pretty easily on that progression.. 90s rest between each set. I think I could hit 10/8/6 or something pretty quickly. Just keep on trucking through to the next cycle from there?

[nightanole]

Ok.. I think I can get to 24 reps pretty easily on that progression.. 90s rest between each set. I think I could hit 10/8/6 or something pretty quickly. Just keep on trucking through to the next cycle from there?

Ideally if you get in your 24 rep total and add 10% your total will naturally go back down to 14 reps, in a worse case the first session might only be 12 reps due to CNS.

With say a 10/8/6. The first 4-5 reps are exhausting your fast twich fibers, so the upper threshold slow twitch (the ones that grow big the quickest but might only have 50 reps in them per day) kick in. On the 8 and 6 rep sets the fast twitch are already pre exhausted so the slow twitch kick in sooner. So at the end of the day its still like you did a 3x5 session, but instead of taking 15-20min, you did it in under 10min. That is how "hypertrophy" training works, fast sessions with low rest and high reps. The compromise is a lower technical 1rm vs the guy who spent 1.5-2 hours in the gym for the same amount of hypertrophy.

[rlefebvr]

its 10-15% less working weight, thats it. Else you can do the novice pattern which is 3 sets of 4-8 reps with teh same 90 seconds or less rest.

I can't find the novice pattern anywhere.

Is that the exact same program but with just 1 less set and less reps.

If it is I think I will go with that to start

Ron

[nightanole]

I can't find the novice pattern anywhere.

Is that the exact same program but with just 1 less set and less reps.

If it is I think I will go with that to start

Ron

"novice" is converting up to the first 3 lifts (bench, squat, and row) to 3 sets of 4-8 reps with 90 seconds or less rest. The rest of the program is still 8-12 reps. The novice lifts you start with a weight you can lift 6-7 times.

Up sides to novice, you get an extra 90 seconds of rest so you can work at a higher capacity
Down sides to novice, you double your volume from start to finish every cycle vs only increasing it 50% on regular.


PS: i think you are miss reading the program a little. All exercises only have 2 work sets (3 if on novice). the first 3 lifts also have 2 warmup sets. Some miss read that as a 4 set program.

[rlefebvr]

"novice" is converting up to the first 3 lifts (bench, squat, and row) to 3 sets of 4-8 reps with 90 seconds or less rest. The rest of the program is still 8-12 reps. The novice lifts you start with a weight you can lift 6-7 times.

Up sides to novice, you get an extra 90 seconds of rest so you can work at a higher capacity
Down sides to novice, you double your volume from start to finish every cycle vs only increasing it 50% on regular.


PS: i think you are miss reading the program a little. All exercises only have 2 work sets (3 if on novice). the first 3 lifts also have 2 warmup sets. Some miss read that as a 4 set program.

I did miss that. I think the novice setup is still perfect for now however. I can always change later.

Thanks

Ron