AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[nightanole]

Hi, thanks for this thread, am going to start focussing a little more on a routine rather than just turning up and doing whatever is free (having to move gym for such a privilege...) so am looking to start this.

I have a couple of quick questions if you don't mind:

1. When testing for my 10RM, do you recommend much of a warm up before testing? Presumably it won't make much of a difference, was thinking a couple of sets of 5 with the bar then a set of ~30% of my estimate for a couple of reps just to get the blood going etc.

2. You say in the first post "The first week do all 4 sets for 8 reps.
The second week do all 4 sets for 9 reps. Etc etc..."

But you say to do two work sets per exercise. I'm sure this is me being stupid but which is it? 2x8, then 2x9 etc? Are you referring to warmup sets when you say do all four sets for 8 reps?

3. Will this not be significantly slower progression than the various 5x5 variants, SS etc? Given that if my Squat was say 75kg (not sure on lbs, on mobile sorry), then I'll only progress 7.5kg in 5 weeks, whereas the others would have me progressing 7.5kg in ~2-3weeks (at least, that was my experience when I did it a couple of years back). Is this because this is more focused on size? Or it'll help progression continue for longer, albeit at a potentially slower rate?

Apologies if these have been covered somewhere...thanks again.

Thanks. Interested to see how this goes.

I recommend a warmup of 10 reps of just the bar, or just a plastic pipe if the bar is significantly more than 33% of your working weight. Then 10 reps of something that is between 50-75% of your light day working weight. Do this every workout, you do not have to change reps/weight for the duration of the cycle. You only have to do warmup sets for bench/row/squats. All exercises only have 2 work sets. So 4 sets total for teh first 3 exercises if you count warmup sets.

2) ummm, each week you add a rep to each work set, does that make sense?

3) 10% bumps are the min not the max, you might be able to double squat weight in 3 cycles if you start light.

As far as "is this slow", here are the typical rates once you are in the groove:
http://strengtheory.com/realistic-training-goals/

[Shadybaby316]

Hello Night,

As I have never lifted or excersied before so at the moment i'm planning to master the excersies.

My ultimate objective is to have a V shaped, broad upper part, slim waist, no ass ripped look, having said that would you advise to do any changes or any specific on this program?

Moreover if you could also advise on any tips on the excersies such as if i should go as low as I can on squats or should I just get up right after i get 90 degrees?
Because i read somewhere there is different techniques for power lifters and body builders (keeping in mind I want to have a v shape how should i be doing?)

Similarly for bent row, shall I hold narrow grip or wider grip on barbell as I read it targets sifferent muscles? Using palms up or palms down?

Thank you.

[nightanole]

Hello Night,

As I have never lifted or excersied before so at the moment i'm planning to master the excersies.

My ultimate objective is to have a V shaped, broad upper part, slim waist, no ass ripped look, having said that would you advise to do any changes or any specific on this program?

Moreover if you could also advise on any tips on the excersies such as if i should go as low as I can on squats or should I just get up right after i get 90 degrees?
Because i read somewhere there is different techniques for power lifters and body builders (keeping in mind I want to have a v shape how should i be doing?)

Similarly for bent row, shall I hold narrow grip or wider grip on barbell as I read it targets sifferent muscles? Using palms up or palms down?

Thank you.

To extend range of motion, you go as low(or has high) as you can without compromising form, and then you pull(or push) hard. This will slowly extend your ROM over time. Static and dynamic stretching on enhance ROM for a few minutes. So with squats just go as low as comfortable, with a goal of getting the hip crease 1-2" below to top of the knee. You do not need to learn ATG squats unless you are going for a certain competition or sport that requires it.

As far as row/bench, go as narrow as comfortable. Wide reduces ROM, enables you to use more weight, but increases risk, and does not increase growth any faster than narrow.

As far as "the look" you are going for. After you pass 2 test days you can add trap and lat work. So for lat work, you could replace curls with chinups. For traps you would do a partial range of motion lift such as the at(or slightly above) the knee rack pull, this would majorly hit the shoulders, upper back, and forearms, and will not tax the lower back. Basically this would give you a big top with a V with the lats, but not give you the old school strong man "brick look" that comes with alot of heavy carries and leg work.

[Xabi17]

I recommend a warmup of 10 reps of just the bar, or just a plastic pipe if the bar is significantly more than 33% of your working weight. Then 10 reps of something that is between 50-75% of your light day working weight. Do this every workout, you do not have to change reps/weight for the duration of the cycle. You only have to do warmup sets for bench/row/squats. All exercises only have 2 work sets. So 4 sets total for teh first 3 exercises if you count warmup sets.

2) ummm, each week you add a rep to each work set, does that make sense?

3) 10% bumps are the min not the max, you might be able to double squat weight in 3 cycles if you start light.

As far as "is this slow", here are the typical rates once you are in the groove:

Thanks for the answers. Understood that you add a rep each week, was confused at the "4 sets" comments, but now understand that includes the warm-up sets.

Out of interest, are there any other resources other than what's in the first few posts? I see you answering a lot of questions that might have useful info. Also, are there any spreadsheets that would be useful at keeping track of this?

Thanks again. Finding out 10RMs tomorrow and starting Monday.

[nightanole]

Thanks for the answers. Understood that you add a rep each week, was confused at the "4 sets" comments, but now understand that includes the warm-up sets.

Out of interest, are there any other resources other than what's in the first few posts? I see you answering a lot of questions that might have useful info. Also, are there any spreadsheets that would be useful at keeping track of this?

Thanks again. Finding out 10RMs tomorrow and starting Monday.

The first or 2nd post has a pdf attachment with the searchable q&A from allpro for the first six months he posted the program.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Y18/edit#gid=2

http://www.workout-calculator.com/20...ne-by-all-pro/

[Xabi17]

The first or 2nd post has a pdf attachment with the searchable q&A from allpro for the first six months he posted the program.

So there is. Must have missed that. Thanks!

[Time2Sleep00]

Hello again! Now entering 3rd cycle and wanna switch curls to chin ups. Is the reps and sets will be the same? And if yes, can I add a 5lb dumbells after every cycle or still 10%?

How many cycles should I run all pros? or until I reach bw bench 10reps?

[unreal99]

I just realized i am doing more of a "Barbell Straight-back Stiff-leg Deadlift" Than a typical SLDL.

1) with my ROM i can't get anywhere closer to the floor
2) i am afraid to arch my back and get lower and hurt my back. like this guy doing in this example : exrx net/WeightExercises/GluteusMaximus/BBStiffLegDeadlift.html

So i am doing more of an isolated exercise.

[anonymous]

Hey Night, you've really helped me out. I just have a clarification about something you suggested:


One intensity session for CNS Fatigue
(Heavy Weight Low Rep <5) per week

One high volume for metabolic fatigue
(Lighst Weight, High Rep >15)


Bicep Intensity --> Tricep Volume
Tricep Intensity --> Bicep Volume

You recommended, to mitigate connective tissue/joint issues, to do Bicep Intensity into Tricep Volume, then switch the sessions. Great idea. Thank you for that suggestion. Would that look like Heavy day [Bicep Intensity], Medium day [nothing], Light Day [Tricep Volume] === then week 2 would be something like Heavy Day [nothing], Medium Day [Tricep Intensity], Light Day [Bicep Volume]?

Your information is fantastic, just trying to figure out what it is I need to do exactly. Sounds like I'm just adding the arm exercises in 2x a week. If I misunderstood, please let me know. I wasn't sure if you recommend I do them 3x a week, or only 2x with that cycling you described?

[nightanole]

I just realized i am doing more of a "Barbell Straight-back Stiff-leg Deadlift" Than a typical SLDL.

1) with my ROM i can't get anywhere closer to the floor
2) i am afraid to arch my back and get lower and hurt my back. like this guy doing in this example : exrx net/WeightExercises/GluteusMaximus/BBStiffLegDeadlift.html

So i am doing more of an isolated exercise.

Nope you are doing it right. We are not doing the old school SLDL that severally rounds the back to give the erectors a dynamic workout.

We are doing the modern one which looks like you are doing:
standard SLDL
bend knees as much as you like as long as it doesnt cause hip drop
go down till your hamstrings are at full stretch with a straight back
pull hard and come back up
do not let the weight hit the floor between reps.

[nightanole]

Hello again! Now entering 3rd cycle and wanna switch curls to chin ups. Is the reps and sets will be the same? And if yes, can I add a 5lb dumbells after every cycle or still 10%?

How many cycles should I run all pros? or until I reach bw bench 10reps?

Most run it 5-7 cycles. Its good till about 10 reps of bw bench and 1.25-1.5x bw squat, if you are around 13-15% and a bmi of 24-26. After that its going to be impossible to add 10% to the bar in 5 weeks ever again. Then you switch to a much slower routine that has alot more volume (+50%).

[nightanole]

Hey Night, you've really helped me out. I just have a clarification about something you suggested:


One intensity session for CNS Fatigue
(Heavy Weight Low Rep <5) per week

One high volume for metabolic fatigue
(Lighst Weight, High Rep >15)


Bicep Intensity --> Tricep Volume
Tricep Intensity --> Bicep Volume

You recommended, to mitigate connective tissue/joint issues, to do Bicep Intensity into Tricep Volume, then switch the sessions. Great idea. Thank you for that suggestion. Would that look like Heavy day [Bicep Intensity], Medium day [nothing], Light Day [Tricep Volume] === then week 2 would be something like Heavy Day [nothing], Medium Day [Tricep Intensity], Light Day [Bicep Volume]?

Your information is fantastic, just trying to figure out what it is I need to do exactly. Sounds like I'm just adding the arm exercises in 2x a week. If I misunderstood, please let me know. I wasn't sure if you recommend I do them 3x a week, or only 2x with that cycling you described?

72 hours min between arm sessions, 2x a week, however you want to roll that. Sounds like you picked a good pattern.

[Time2Sleep00]

Most run it 5-7 cycles. Its good till about 10 reps of bw bench and 1.25-1.5x bw squat, if you are around 13-15% and a bmi of 24-26. After that its going to be impossible to add 10% to the bar in 5 weeks ever again. Then you switch to a much slower routine that has alot more volume (+50%).

So what will you recommend as a good hypertrophy bodybuilding program? Can you cut on it?

Also wanna switch curls to chin ups. Is the reps and sets will be the same? And if yes, can I add a 5lb dumbells after every cycle or still 10%?

[customshopkv1]

Most run it 5-7 cycles. Its good till about 10 reps of bw bench and 1.25-1.5x bw squat, if you are around 13-15% and a bmi of 24-26. After that its going to be impossible to add 10% to the bar in 5 weeks ever again. Then you switch to a much slower routine that has alot more volume (+50%).

So if you meet those requirements do you switch to the novice program? Can you be more specific? Thanks

[buffalopilot]

Just my experience with this program. I ran Stronglifts 5x5 for 4 months and built up a significant amount of strength. I did add some muscle to my frame but nothing too impressive. About a month ago I switched over to AllPro and started taking ON Gold Standard Whey, L Citrulline 3000mg daily and Critical Aminos XT and Ive noticed some considerable increase in muscle mass pretty quickly. I am 200lbs and bench 265 for 5 reps DL 300lbs for 5 reps Squat 245lbs for 10reps. But I am just impressed with the hypertrophy gain starting with Stronglifts then moving over to AllPro. I am 40 years old also.

[nightanole]

So what will you recommend as a good hypertrophy bodybuilding program? Can you cut on it?

Also wanna switch curls to chin ups. Is the reps and sets will be the same? And if yes, can I add a 5lb dumbells after every cycle or still 10%?

After allpro I generally advise 5/3/1 BBB or greyskull LP which can be ran for at least 2 years after allpro.
You may have noticed there are very few intermediate routines. That is because EVERYONE is different and you need to learn to program yourself or get a coach. By that time some body parts can handle more volume than others. Some will recover faster or slower than others. Some will require more exercise rotation to prevent repeat bout injuries/plateaus, while other body parts never need a rotation or even frequent deloads. Sorry but no cookie cutters for intermediates.

As for chinups, i would start out with this:
The 10 sets of 3 session
do 3 reps, rest 30 seconds, do 3 reps rest 30 seconds...

If/when you can do 10 sets, you can add either 5lbs or 10%. If adding 10% make sure you dont fail till at least the 4th set, else you may not have enough volume for progression.

Boiled down that is an intermediate pattern. Add weight, then add volume via sets, once weight is added volume is drastically reduced and then built back up.


If you do not like that pattern, i recommend "grease the groove". About every hour of the day (or at least 8-10 times) do a set of chinups and stop at half your known rep max. You can retest your max every few weeks by taking a break for 72 hours and then test. You can add weight as long as your daily reps are above 50.

[nightanole]

So if you meet those requirements do you switch to the novice program? Can you be more specific? Thanks

Switching to novice may allow you to reach those numbers once you start to stall on the 2 sets of 12. The novice variant is for those that have increased their working limit to the point were they can no longer repeat a set in 90 seconds using 60-65% of there 1rm.
A straight weight 5x5 set using 80% of your 1rm (which is what beginners are working with) will put an advanced lifter in the hospital after 6 sessions, even if they do not increase the weight. Their cns is trained to the point they can push themselves that hard. Beginners do not have the motor patterns or CNS electrical current for a lack of a better term, to push their muscles hard.

This is a beginner routine. We use straight weight, we use fixed sets, we push progression via frequency and increasing volume.

Beginners spell progression "f-r-e-q-u-e-n-c-y"
Intermediates spell progression "v-o-l-u-m-e"

So at some point 48 reps at 65% per session (allpro has 2 lifts per muscle group) is not going to cut it.

I am not going to get into the nitty gritty of intermediate programming. You can check out greyskull LP and Madcow 5x5 for a cookie cutter intermediate program that should get you to a 5 plate deadlift if you are capable of getting to 190-200lb body weight while staying in the teens of body fat.

[5penn]

bittersweet day today (Cycle 3/Week 4/Heavy) 11 rep week

BP 2nd set - 10 reps only(barely), but an improvement from Cycle 2 where I only got 8 reps (same weight)

struggled badly with BOR, but I was expecting that as it has progressed faster than BP (correct assumption??)

(knock on wood) forearm and wrist problems are improving

[briancl2]

After allpro I generally advise 5/3/1 BBB or greyskull LP which can be ran for at least 2 years after allpro.
You may have noticed there are very few intermediate routines. That is because EVERYONE is different and you need to learn to program yourself or get a coach. By that time some body parts can handle more volume than others. Some will recover faster or slower than others. Some will require more exercise rotation to prevent repeat bout injuries/plateaus, while other body parts never need a rotation or even frequent deloads. Sorry but no cookie cutters for intermediates.

As for chinups, i would start out with this:
The 10 sets of 3 session
do 3 reps, rest 30 seconds, do 3 reps rest 30 seconds...

If/when you can do 10 sets, you can add either 5lbs or 10%. If adding 10% make sure you dont fail till at least the 4th set, else you may not have enough volume for progression.

Boiled down that is an intermediate pattern. Add weight, then add volume via sets, once weight is added volume is drastically reduced and then built back up.


If you do not like that pattern, i recommend "grease the groove". About every hour of the day (or at least 8-10 times) do a set of chinups and stop at half your known rep max. You can retest your max every few weeks by taking a break for 72 hours and then test. You can add weight as long as your daily reps are above 50.

I've been doing chins instead of curls almost exclusively... but never like this. I just run it on the standard sets/reps along with everything else. Allpro auto-regulated. Currently I'm at BW for 13 and 9 reps. I am just about to cycle.. should I switch over to this progression?

Also, I'm probably just about done with Autoregulated.. my progress is pretty slow right now. Looking at Greyskull LP.

Bodyweight 170, 6'
Squat 215 11/8
Bench 160 14/9
Row 185 10/10
OHP 105 13/9
SLDL 185 9/9
Chinup 170 13/9

I also look pretty ripped. Abs are for real now, even unflexed the outlines are there. Flexed is full on 6 pack. Scale says 16% BF, but I know those things are never right. It said 17% pretty consistently before, so relatively speaking I've probably cut some of the fat. If I had enough posts I'd link a photo.

[nightanole]

I've been doing chins instead of curls almost exclusively... but never like this. I just run it on the standard sets/reps along with everything else. Allpro auto-regulated. Currently I'm at BW for 13 and 9 reps. I am just about to cycle.. should I switch over to this progression?

Also, I'm probably just about done with Autoregulated.. my progress is pretty slow right now. Looking at Greyskull LP.

Bodyweight 170, 6'
Squat 215 11/8
Bench 160 14/9
Row 185 10/10
OHP 105 13/9
SLDL 185 9/9
Chinup 170 13/9

I also look pretty ripped. Abs are for real now, even unflexed the outlines are there. Flexed is full on 6 pack. Scale says 16% BF, but I know those things are never right. It said 17% pretty consistently before, so relatively speaking I've probably cut some of the fat. If I had enough posts I'd link a photo.

Well lets say you are getting 13/9 3x a week, that is 66 reps of bw chinups spread over a week. You can easily get that in a day with 6-7 reps and 8-10 sessions. And you are more or less doing it at least 3x a week if not daily. So right there is 3x your current volume.

This is why after allpro i recommend programs with minimum 50% more volume. Allpro auto regulated ran every 48 hours is about 50% more volume than the regular program.

As an intermediate you have programming problems. You need more volume that a novice program. You need more recovery time than a novice program. Working too close to failure or at too high of intensity will drastically increase the amount of recovery time needed.

Most switch to periodization. They start off with a light weight but alot of volume, and then reduce volume and add weight(increase intensity).

Grey skull LP does this by using the last set to failure. So the volume is reduced as you get closer to failure. And once you fail the intensity is dropped so you can increase volume.

Another good example of this is this program:
http://bestgymprograms.com/jason-bla...rophy-program/

If you plot is out in a spread sheet you can see that weekly tonnage lifted drops by 2/3 by the time you get to the end and are doing 3×5 85%. I think i plotted progression around 2.5-3% per cycle.

[anonymous]

72 hours min between arm sessions, 2x a week, however you want to roll that. Sounds like you picked a good pattern.

From the bottom of my heart, thank you Sir. You've really helped me out.

[HuwB]

7 weeks in now and it's going well. I just wondered what grip width I should be aiming for with bent over rows?

Thanks,
Huw.

[nightanole]

7 weeks in now and it's going well. I just wondered what grip width I should be aiming for with bent over rows?

Thanks,
Huw.

As narrow as comfortable, i stick with something between bench and OHP. Think of it as a reverse bench.

[HuwB]

As narrow as comfortable, i stick with something between bench and OHP. Think of it as a reverse bench.

Thanks, which leads me to ask what width for OHP?

[nightanole]

Thanks, which leads me to ask what width for OHP?

Narrower than the bench. Typically hands just outside the shoulders. AKA a grip that allows the elbow to be directly under the wrist at chest level so you can push up.

[HuwB]

Narrower than the bench. Typically hands just outside the shoulders. AKA a grip that allows the elbow to be directly under the wrist at chest level so you can push up.

Great, I've been going too wide then! Thanks again.

[teabone13]

does this work when doing a ketogenic diet? if yes, all good. if no, what are some of the short/long term issues that may arise?

[Time2Sleep00]

"As for chinups, i would start out with this:
The 10 sets of 3 session
do 3 reps, rest 30 seconds, do 3 reps rest 30 seconds...

If/when you can do 10 sets, you can add either 5lbs or 10%. If adding 10% make sure you dont fail till at least the 4th set, else you may not have enough volume for progression.
"

Now, I tried this earlier. Only able to do 1 set properly, half ROM for the 2nd set. another barely doing the 3rd set with half the rom also. Any assistance for this? Thanks

[johnlondon]

1) Neither squats nor regular deadlifts address the posterior chain (hamstrings, glutes, spinal erectors complex) properly. By doing squats + stiff-legged deadlifts, this problem is solved, and a balance is introduced.

Really? REALLY? REEEEEEALLY?!

[nightanole]

does this work when doing a ketogenic diet? if yes, all good. if no, what are some of the short/long term issues that may arise?

The only dietary problem on allpro is getting your glycogen stores refilled before the workout. With a normal carb diet that means eating carbs 8-12 hours before the workout. With a fat based energy diet the same thing applies. Im not sure what "carbing up" is on keto but at some point the glycogen stores are resupplied regardless if you are running off of fat or carbs.

"As for chinups, i would start out with this:
The 10 sets of 3 session
do 3 reps, rest 30 seconds, do 3 reps rest 30 seconds...

If/when you can do 10 sets, you can add either 5lbs or 10%. If adding 10% make sure you dont fail till at least the 4th set, else you may not have enough volume for progression.
"

Now, I tried this earlier. Only able to do 1 set properly, half ROM for the 2nd set. another barely doing the 3rd set with half the rom also. Any assistance for this? Thanks

If you can only do 3 chinups, why did you want to switch to chinups? Any the only choices are band/machine assisted chinups or doing all sets as negatives till you can do at least 4 sets unassisted.