AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[nightanole]

The Monday that passed was a national holiday in my country so the gym was closed. It was my 5th week test day and so I decided to go on Tuesday. I passed everything except OHP. I also went today (Thursday) to complete the medium day. As I am unable to go on Saturday to do the light day is it ok to do it tomorrow (Friday)?

Yes. I would also check OHP by doing 1 set of 10 with 110% of your working weight. It might have been a false test day, if you get the 10 reps, you pass, else its a repeat of the same weight next cycle. I would also make sure you have a very good meal 8-12 hours before working out to help with recovery.

[nightanole]

The Monday that passed was a national holiday in my country so the gym was closed. It was my 5th week test day and so I decided to go on Tuesday. I passed everything except OHP. I also went today (Thursday) to complete the medium day. As I am unable to go on Saturday to do the light day is it ok to do it tomorrow (Friday)?

Yes. I would also check OHP by doing 1 set of 10 with 110% of your working weight. It might have been a false test day, if you get the 10 reps, you pass, else its a repeat of the same weight next cycle. I would also make sure you have a very good meal 8-12 hours before working out to help with recovery.

[nightanole]

My brother and I just started this program Monday. Our numbers are pretty similar with yours.


I've lost about 15 lbs since January doing insanity workout. I'm 5'6" 178lbs. (195 in January).

My weights are:
Squat 185
Bench 145
Row 105
OHP 85
SLDL 145
Curl 60
Seated Calf raise 50

Brother is 5'4". 185.he lost about 10 lbs doing insanity with me.

Squat 185
Bench 185
Row 105
OHP 95
SLDL 145
Curl 70
Seated Calf raise 50

My question to nightanole, should we keep going with these weights or reset come Monday with lower weights?

The program is good for 5-7 cycles. The problem is when people start within 20% ish of the goal line.

The program should end around a bmi of 24

5.6 is 150lbs
5.4 is 145lbs.

Each bmi point is 5lbs for your sizes. So you two have already met or beat the end numbers the program is good for in terms of weight and volume. You could run the program for 3 cycles to remove the 25-30lbs of fat. Your goals will be to not miss reps till weeks 4-5. If you start missing reps week 3 you are cutting too deep and cant perform.

[darreljames]

My goal is to drop weight to about 150-160 and develop my arms and back more as those are my weak points I guess.

Would you recommend for us to keep going with this program or go into a split?

My experience in the gym is about 5 months from few years back, which Is why I wanted to do this program. Quick and simple . My brother been lifting for years though till he got hospitalize last year for about 2 months. He lost alot of muscle mass especially in his legs.

PS just noticed my age in profile says 47 lol
I'm 27 and my brother is 26

[liquida45]

Nah you are good. The program is good for 10 reps of bw bench and 10 reps of 1.25-1.5x bw squat, at 13% body fat. So those goals should line up nicely at the end.

It would be a completely different story if you were 5.9 175 lbs

Ok cool.

Thanks for double checking, nice to get a second opinion and make sure your not messing up. Repped.

[nightanole]

My goal is to drop weight to about 150-160 and develop my arms and back more as those are my weak points I guess.

Would you recommend for us to keep going with this program or go into a split?

My experience in the gym is about 5 months from few years back, which Is why I wanted to do this program. Quick and simple . My brother been lifting for years though till he got hospitalize last year for about 2 months. He lost alot of muscle mass especially in his legs.

PS just noticed my age in profile says 47 lol
I'm 27 and my brother is 26

The program is very good for back development. You move into a split when you need more volume to grow, but cant recover from novice straight weight sets. Again run the program with a goal of weight loss and making sure not to miss reps before weeks 4-5.

You are at the tweener stage. Beginner routines are a bit too fast, and intermediate routines have too much volume. So most just run beginner routines but fail/reset/deload more often. Even on SS towards the end you are putting 30lbs on the bar each month, but deloading 10% off each month which odds are is 20-25lbs. If those numbers posted are your 10 rep maxes then you are both advanced novices.

You can add up to 2 accessories to allpro. For arm meat i normally recommend close grip chinups (works the forearm and bicep equally), and back with rack pulls (you can cheat with straps if you want, since the goal is not grip work).

[velikator]

Great!! thanks so much.

This is going to help a lot

[darreljames]

The program is very good for back development. You move into a split when you need more volume to grow, but cant recover from novice straight weight sets. Again run the program with a goal of weight loss and making sure not to miss reps before weeks 4-5.

You are at the tweener stage. Beginner routines are a bit too fast, and intermediate routines have too much volume. So most just run beginner routines but fail/reset/deload more often. Even on SS towards the end you are putting 30lbs on the bar each month, but deloading 10% off each month which odds are is 20-25lbs. If those numbers posted are your 10 rep maxes then you are both advanced novices.

You can add up to 2 accessories to allpro. For arm meat i normally recommend close grip chinups (works the forearm and bicep equally), and back with rack pulls (you can cheat with straps if you want, since the goal is not grip work).

Ok cool.
Thanks for all your help

[nightanole]

Dumb question, but you need to extend your arms fully straight up to get the benefits of OHP right? This seems pretty close but I should stick with seated OHP right?: Attachment 8583631

A shrug is required for lockout, so you are not even close. Do the seated arnold DB press if you can, else yea you are stuck with the seated BB OHP.

[HuwB]

Age 43, 81kg, 5'10". Just did first day of cycle 4 and my progression (kg) has been:

Squat 22, 27, 37, 47.0

BP 22, 27, 34.5, 42.0

BOR 22, 27, 34.5, 42.0

OHP 19.5, 22.0, 24.0, 27.0

SLDL 22, 27, 37, 47.0

Curl 12, 14.5, 17.0, 19.5

No fails so far and I'm trying my best to keep BOR (45 degrees and pronated grip) the same weight as bench as I have previously injured my right shoulder swimming, The physio at the time said my back was weak relative to chest and I should aim to restore balance. I'm happy with my form on everything except BOR where I'm probably not holding for a second at the top or pinching as hard as I would with lower weight. I'm also probably shrugging it up a bit. It could be that my arms are letting me down as after curls I'm ruined which maybe suggests they're weak. Any tips on what I could do to assist my BOR - I was thinking of just doing another set at lower weight to failure before curls? Maybe adding assists for BOR and biceps would be good idea or just drop the BOR weight and suck it up?

Thanks,
Huw.

[nightanole]

Age 43, 81kg, 5'10". Just did first day of cycle 4 and my progression (kg) has been:

Squat 22, 27, 37, 47.0

BP 22, 27, 34.5, 42.0

BOR 22, 27, 34.5, 42.0

OHP 19.5, 22.0, 24.0, 27.0

SLDL 22, 27, 37, 47.0

Curl 12, 14.5, 17.0, 19.5

No fails so far and I'm trying my best to keep BOR (45 degrees and pronated grip) the same weight as bench as I have previously injured my right shoulder swimming, The physio at the time said my back was weak relative to chest and I should aim to restore balance. I'm happy with my form on everything except BOR where I'm probably not holding for a second at the top or pinching as hard as I would with lower weight. I'm also probably shrugging it up a bit. It could be that my arms are letting me down as after curls I'm ruined which maybe suggests they're weak. Any tips on what I could do to assist my BOR - I was thinking of just doing another set at lower weight to failure before curls? Maybe adding assists for BOR and biceps would be good idea or just drop the BOR weight and suck it up?

Thanks,
Huw.

Sure i can help. Its plain and simple, your goal form for the BOR is wrong. You dont do slow and controlled, you dont hold at the top for 1-2 seconds at the top, and you dont pinch hard at full contraction.

Lets boil it down. Just grip it and rip it.

Now lets make it complicated.

When can a muscle pull the strongest? When its at max extension under tension.
When can your CNS pull the strongest? The .25-.5 seconds after full stretch. We call this the stretch reflex. Your body goes "oh crap you went to far, better pull back hard to prevent injury".
When can you put the least amount of force on the bar? When the bar is moving the fastest.
What causes muscle growth? Increased tension over time, fatigue buildup, and CNS (pattern, range of motion allowed at full strength, CNS output before fatigue sets in).
What causes connecting tissue to get thicker and denser? Increased peak tension.

So just put it all together. Grip it and rip it. You will never lock out a heavy weight going slow and controlled and focusing on the top of the lift. You need to simply pull (or push) hard when ever the bar is dead stopped or changing directions. If you cant get er goin at that moment you will never get enough momentum to lock out the weight. You are strongest when the bar is not moving, you are weakest when you muscles are the shortest.

[HuwB]

Sure i can help. Its plain and simple, your goal form for the BOR is wrong. You dont do slow and controlled, you dont hold at the top for 1-2 seconds at the top, and you dont pinch hard at full contraction.

Lets boil it down. Just grip it and rip it.

Now lets make it complicated.

When can a muscle pull the strongest? When its at max extension under tension.
When can your CNS pull the strongest? The .25-.5 seconds after full stretch. We call this the stretch reflex. Your body goes "oh crap you went to far, better pull back hard to prevent injury".
When can you put the least amount of force on the bar? When the bar is moving the fastest.
What causes muscle growth? Increased tension over time, fatigue buildup, and CNS (pattern, range of motion allowed at full strength, CNS output before fatigue sets in).
What causes connecting tissue to get thicker and denser? Increased peak tension.

So just put it all together. Grip it and rip it. You will never lock out a heavy weight going slow and controlled and focusing on the top of the lift. You need to simply pull (or push) hard when ever the bar is dead stopped or changing directions. If you cant get er goin at that moment you will never get enough momentum to lock out the weight. You are strongest when the bar is not moving, you are weakest when you muscles are the shortest.

Amaze balls - that I can work with. The long and short explanations are much appreciated.

[OryxOryx]

So I've been doing AllPro for awhile, here are my current allpro working weights:
Squat: 199
Bench: 177
BOR: 138
Overhead Press: 94
SLDL: 133 (I was actually up to like 260 for SLDL but I recently reset to a low weight to focus on form and range of motion... so this 133 is going up fast)
Lat Pulldown: 140

On M and L days, I also throw in skullcrushers and barbell curls at the end, one set to 10 and one set to AMRAP.

The issue is while my strength has increased dramatically on AllPro, I've been inconsistent with my diet so I'm still carrying around way too much extra fat. I want to lose around 50 pounds of fat. So this is going to be a long cut.

What should I do in terms of progression on AllPro for such an extended cut? It seems unlikely that I'll make regular gains on such a long cut especially given that I've exhausted a lot of my super noob gains already. I'd be happy just maintaining my strength on this cut. So if I start failing everything on week 5 test day, do I just start over at week 1 with the same weight and keep going through the same cycles over and over until I achieve my weight goal? I mean sure if I pass test day I can do a 5% bump or something, but I'm more worried about what I ought to do if I start to consistently fail test day on most or all lifts.

[nightanole]

So I've been doing AllPro for awhile, here are my current allpro working weights:
Squat: 199
Bench: 177
BOR: 138
Overhead Press: 94
SLDL: 133 (I was actually up to like 260 for SLDL but I recently reset to a low weight to focus on form and range of motion... so this 133 is going up fast)
Lat Pulldown: 140

On M and L days, I also throw in skullcrushers and barbell curls at the end, one set to 10 and one set to AMRAP.

The issue is while my strength has increased dramatically on AllPro, I've been inconsistent with my diet so I'm still carrying around way too much extra fat. I want to lose around 50 pounds of fat. So this is going to be a long cut.

What should I do in terms of progression on AllPro for such an extended cut? It seems unlikely that I'll make regular gains on such a long cut especially given that I've exhausted a lot of my super noob gains already. I'd be happy just maintaining my strength on this cut. So if I start failing everything on week 5 test day, do I just start over at week 1 with the same weight and keep going through the same cycles over and over until I achieve my weight goal? I mean sure if I pass test day I can do a 5% bump or something, but I'm more worried about what I ought to do if I start to consistently fail test day on most or all lifts.

On a "max fat loss" cut, the name of the game is just to complete 10 rep week without missed reps. As long as you are doing that you will be at least maintaining all your muscle and not dropping the nutrition so much that you cant perform, which will cause muscle loss over time. You might still be increasing your strength 2.5-3.33% each cycle, but you will only be passing every 3-4 cycles.

From my experience 50lbs of fat will take 9-12 months to cut off. 50lbs of fat is 175,000 cals. 6 months that is a deficit of 960 cals per day. 1 year is a more manageable 480 cals. This is why i laugh when my 350-400lb friends says they lost 25lbs "of fat" in 2 months. So either they just stopped eating entirely, or swam 8-12 hours a day... It was water weight yo from dropping carbs....

[OryxOryx]

Thanks. Small follow-up question:

Suppose I consistently make my 10-rep week, but consistently fail 12-rep test day. I just reset to 8 reps of the same weight, even if I do this 3-4 cycles in a row?

[nightanole]

Thanks. Small follow-up question:

Suppose I consistently make my 10-rep week, but consistently fail 12-rep test day. I just reset to 8 reps of the same weight, even if I do this 3-4 cycles in a row?

Yup. Bar speed should be slowly increasing though cycle to cycle. Also rest between sets would slowly decline in need as well.

[OryxOryx]

O thanks again nightanole for all the help. I'm already working on decreasing rest intervals.

On light day I superset each pair of exercises with no rest between sets

On medium day I decrease rest between sets to around 1min instead of 90secs.

Ok, another question...

My question is, I have a lot of free time on light day (saturday) so sometimes I've been randomly doing heavy singles of different exercises at the end of light day. THis has not impacted the next week heavy day so far (maybe b/c I have 2 full days rest between). I might work up to a 1RM in deadlift, squat, bench, power clean, etc (just one of those each week). Farmer carries also sometimes. Is this a bad idea? Are there any other useful things I could do on light day after everything else?

[nightanole]

O thanks again nightanole for all the help. I'm already working on decreasing rest intervals.

On light day I superset each pair of exercises with no rest between sets

On medium day I decrease rest between sets to around 1min instead of 90secs.

Ok, another question...

My question is, I have a lot of free time on light day (saturday) so sometimes I've been randomly doing heavy singles of different exercises at the end of light day. THis has not impacted the next week heavy day so far (maybe b/c I have 2 full days rest between). I might work up to a 1RM in deadlift, squat, bench, power clean, etc (just one of those each week). Farmer carries also sometimes. Is this a bad idea? Are there any other useful things I could do on light day after everything else?

As long as its done directly after allpro it shouldnt affect recovery.

Something more useful would be just general GPP work. You could do something like a farmer carries and burpees superset at a pace you can sustain for 20min without resting, directly after the workout. Heavy bag work and slow pace jump rope is also a good one. Or just good old fashion road work that boxers and MMA fighters do.

[Pumpinmirin]

Hi nightanole,

Currently on C2W2 and just wanting to know if you have some maths behind the curls for me. Fixed barbells in my strength range increase in increments of 5kg. I can do the 25kg bars on heavy day but dropping down to 20kg on medium day is a 20% decrease. Is there a certain amount of reps I can do with the 20kg to simulate the same volume as a 10% decrease for medium day?

Thanks.

[nightanole]

Hi nightanole,

Currently on C2W2 and just wanting to know if you have some maths behind the curls for me. Fixed barbells in my strength range increase in increments of 5kg. I can do the 25kg bars on heavy day but dropping down to 20kg on medium day is a 20% decrease. Is there a certain amount of reps I can do with the 20kg to simulate the same volume as a 10% decrease for medium day?

Thanks.

Just adjust the VOLUME so medium day is 10% less and light day is 20% less. So 25kg for 2 sets of 10 is 500kg, so medium day needs to be 2 sets of something with a weight less than heavy day, that totals 450kg.

[Saittis]

Hi I'm on week 4 of the 1st cycle, and got a few questions:

My starting weights:
Squat 40
Bench Press 35
Overhead Press 25
Bent-over Row 35
Stiff Legged Deadlift 45
Calf raise 40
Upright Row 25


1. While doing BOR I dont feel my back muscles as much as I do my hands, I watched a few youtube videos on proper form and I'm trying to replicate it as well as I can, can the reason be that my arms are just weak and thats why I'm feeling them more then back or is it something with form? While we're at form I have a question, should your chest be more parallel to the ground or like 45 degree? I see it different on every video.

2. Similar to BOR during bench press I feel my arms more than chest, I'm not sure if it's form or arm problem, what I can tell you is that my grip is absolutely pathetic, during my 1st week I could barely hold the bar long enough to do SLDL, now I can do my 11 reps so it's getting better for sure but man my forearms suck.

3. Even after heavy day I have no DOMS, like at all. I had them after very 1st workout, pretty much nothing after that (during the exercises I can definietly feel my muscles being tired, except those 2 i mentioned above) is it normal? I know that DOMS get weaker as you workout for longer, but nothing?

[nightanole]

Hi I'm on week 4 of the 1st cycle, and got a few questions:

My starting weights:
Squat 40
Bench Press 35
Overhead Press 25
Bent-over Row 35
Stiff Legged Deadlift 45
Calf raise 40
Upright Row 25


1. While doing BOR I dont feel my back muscles as much as I do my hands, I watched a few youtube videos on proper form and I'm trying to replicate it as well as I can, can the reason be that my arms are just weak and thats why I'm feeling them more then back or is it something with form? While we're at form I have a question, should your chest be more parallel to the ground or like 45 degree? I see it different on every video.

2. Similar to BOR during bench press I feel my arms more than chest, I'm not sure if it's form or arm problem, what I can tell you is that my grip is absolutely pathetic, during my 1st week I could barely hold the bar long enough to do SLDL, now I can do my 11 reps so it's getting better for sure but man my forearms suck.

3. Even after heavy day I have no DOMS, like at all. I had them after very 1st workout, pretty much nothing after that (during the exercises I can definietly feel my muscles being tired, except those 2 i mentioned above) is it normal? I know that DOMS get weaker as you workout for longer, but nothing?

1) row should be at 45-60 degree, it puts on the most meat.
2) everyone has imbalances when they start the routine. Sounds like you are chest dominant so odds are your OHP is really hard compared to your bench.
3) DOMS are from a massive change. By 6 weeks in at worst, they should not be happening. Advanced lifters can do 10 sets of 10 squats with their 12 rep max and not get DOMS.

[Saittis]

Thanks for reply, I'll continue and I guess I'll see in a few months what are the results .

[OryxOryx]

Just finished week 4 heavy day a couple hours ago. I failed on the squats, and I think part of the reason is insufficient warmup. I do the two prescribed warmup sets, but I workout pretty much right after waking up, real early in the morning, with nothing but coffee and water in me. I find that set 2 of squats tends to be much easier than set 1. Any suggestions for adding anything in terms of warmup before squats so that I don't experience so much difficulty in set 1? I have no probs with other exercises, just that 1st working set of squats.

Second question. You told me yesterday about how on my long cut, my basic goal is to ensure that I'm at least succeeding in 10-rep week each cycle to ensure that I'm not losing muscle in a long cut. But I've been doing the variation where I do 4-8x3 for squat, bench, BOR. not 8-12x2. What should be my rep goals under this system to ensure that I'm not losing muscle? Week 3 is 10-rep week for OHP, SLDL, Lat Pulls, but that is 20 total reps between 2 sets, whereas week 3 for Squat, Bench, BOR is only 18 reps between three sets.

[nightanole]

Just finished week 4 heavy day a couple hours ago. I failed on the squats, and I think part of the reason is insufficient warmup. I do the two prescribed warmup sets, but I workout pretty much right after waking up, real early in the morning, with nothing but coffee and water in me. I find that set 2 of squats tends to be much easier than set 1. Any suggestions for adding anything in terms of warmup before squats so that I don't experience so much difficulty in set 1? I have no probs with other exercises, just that 1st working set of squats.

Second question. You told me yesterday about how on my long cut, my basic goal is to ensure that I'm at least succeeding in 10-rep week each cycle to ensure that I'm not losing muscle in a long cut. But I've been doing the variation where I do 4-8x3 for squat, bench, BOR. not 8-12x2. What should be my rep goals under this system to ensure that I'm not losing muscle? Week 3 is 10-rep week for OHP, SLDL, Lat Pulls, but that is 20 total reps between 2 sets, whereas week 3 for Squat, Bench, BOR is only 18 reps between three sets.

The first 3 exercises need to be done first. So you could always row first, then bench, then squat, or some other variant that doesnt have you squatting first. The only other advice would be to do 1 heavy rep at 110-125% of the days working weight after the 2 warmups.

As for the 2nd question, the goal is not to miss reps on week 3. So mid reps, 10 reps for the 8-12 range, or 6 reps in the 4-8 range. Weeks 4 and 5 are the over reach section of the program, and you wont hit all the reps on those unless you got stronger or used a much slower bar speed.

[MaxOT4Change]

Wow. This thread is still going.This is the first routine I ever started(part 1) and I loved it.So many posts they had to start a part 2 and now its on part 6. Allpro rocks

[Sh724]

Just finished week 4 heavy day a couple hours ago. I failed on the squats, and I think part of the reason is insufficient warmup. I do the two prescribed warmup sets, but I workout pretty much right after waking up, real early in the morning, with nothing but coffee and water in me. I find that set 2 of squats tends to be much easier than set 1. Any suggestions for adding anything in terms of warmup before squats so that I don't experience so much difficulty in set 1? I have no probs with other exercises, just that 1st working set of squats.

Second question. You told me yesterday about how on my long cut, my basic goal is to ensure that I'm at least succeeding in 10-rep week each cycle to ensure that I'm not losing muscle in a long cut. But I've been doing the variation where I do 4-8x3 for squat, bench, BOR. not 8-12x2. What should be my rep goals under this system to ensure that I'm not losing muscle? Week 3 is 10-rep week for OHP, SLDL, Lat Pulls, but that is 20 total reps between 2 sets, whereas week 3 for Squat, Bench, BOR is only 18 reps between three sets.

I am running Butchered all pro so a little bit different but same basic program, well anyway I have moved squat to third. I do bench, Row, squat. Mainly just for convenience, I raise the bar to start squat and then when i do OHP im racking/unracking from a higher position. And I have the opposite thought process as you, Bench lags the most for me, i have it first so i am a little more fresh, as I really push on squat and it kills my CNS

[Sh724]

Wow. This thread is still going.This is the first routine I ever started(part 1) and I loved it.So many posts they had to start a part 2 and now its on part 6. Allpro rocks

nightanole has been keeping it going, dude really knows his ****!

[Lunevillain]

Hi!
I really love this routine, been doing these exact same exercises, should probably work up more into the organization of low/med/heavy days though.. anyways.. I was wondering .. what if instead of lowing the weight in those med/low days, you low the reps? Really just a thought.. I mean, the weight would be the same, and the increase of repetitions would keep going every other week during the cycle, but the weight itself wouldn't change, and the weight addition would be made if you were able to complete the whole cycle of say, 10 reps the 1st day, 8 the 2nd and 5 the 3rd..

Apologies if this could possibly sound dumb (I'm recently getting into all this! I only have about 5 months of experience) and/or if it has already been asked

Thanks in advance!

[JeanRoqua]

Hello to everyone again.

I just started the 2nd cycle yesterday and i found it really really hard to complete the last rep on squats and bench. Is that normal?

Also something that bothers me.

I began working out on October and I started allpro routine the past month. All this time I was eating healthy around 2000 - 2500, paying attention to my macros and working out frequently.

What bothers me is the stubborn fat around my belly and my waist. It won't go away. Also I'm not so bulked I thought I will be around this time, when I was starting working out.

So I am on a dilemma. First of all my goal is to have a good beach body on July. I think my body fat percentage is around 25%. So should i eat more to get bulked and do a cut on June? Or should i begin cutting now because 1 month won't last?