The Official Natty Thread - No Gear Talk - Moderated

[KRANE]

Was just a subtle brag/being sarcastic.

It's going exactly according to plan, gained 12lbs on my last supercompensation, about 11 of it has been lost so by estimations unless I trigger water retention I should be down 13-14lbs by tomorrow (6 days).
12lbs of it is just food/water and glycogen loss, tomorrow evening my 24 hour refeed starts which is going to be a whooping 1300-1400 grams of carbs.

Well good luck with that. Don't think I could consume that much even if I started eating before dawn.

Something to look forward to since tomorrows power workout is going to be brutal as it's going to bring me to total glycogen depletion again (if I don't achieve that on the morning cardio already).

High intensity power workout + glycogen depletion is even worse than doing glycogen depletion workouts imo.

Do you have any strategist in mitigating catabolism?

I've achieved an awful lot in fat reduction with IF, but glycogen depletion is on of the hardest things to accomplish due to its physical and mental challenge.

All of my friends complement me on my work, but so far I can't convince a single one of them to join me. Not a single one!

[Znik]

Well good luck with that. Don't think I could consume that much even if I started eating before dawn.

Do you have any strategist in mitigating catabolism?

I've achieved an awful lot in fat reduction with IF, but glycogen depletion is on of the hardest things to accomplish due to its physical and mental challenge.

All of my friends complement me on my work, but so far I can't convince a single one of them to join me. Not a single one!

Eating it all is going to be a challenge since my appetite sucks, if I can't get it all in I just have to continue the refeed on Tuesday, but in terms of time efficiency it would be best to get it done in a day.

Catabolism is mitigated by being bumped into a surplus/maintenance for 2-3 days every 4-5 days (depending on rate of glycogen depletion) and high protein / resistance training on the low kcal days.
As it's such a acute short term big deficit along with having super compensation glycogen stores it keeps the catabolism at a minimum.

A cyclical diet approach is all about abusing the hormonal and physiological responses to low carb in terms of fat mobilization and shifting fuel rate towards fat thus creating a protein/lbm sparing effect and bumping yourself into a anabolic state at the point of where catabolism would be likely to occur.

But yeah, glycogen depletion and depletion workouts absolutely sucks and is pretty hard mentally/physically, which is why this kind of approach is sadistic and only really viable when extremely lean and the traditional approach just becomes too unreliable.

[sgttom]

Anyone else get pissed off when people say natties cant bulk on a moderate-high surplus or grow or get big ?

I have grown a lot in my 2 years and 10-11 months of lifting with my fairly dirty bulks and rapid cuts (average of 2-2.5lbs/week loss) 4-6 months of which has been wasted due to catching Mono and wrecking my ankle (non-lifting related).
So it's like 2 and a half year of efficient lifting, as far as that goes with my condition as quite a few of my lifting sessions gets messed up by the headaches.

So 2.5 years and probably nowhere near my genetic limits, yet I've probably grown as much as those that "recomp" or "lean bulk" does in 5-10 years, but noooo you cant grow at a decent pace as a natty!
........

I seriously doubt I would have had this kind of progress with recomp or a tiny surplus:

Spoiler!

So screw being scared of fat, I am going to keep on eating to grow and shred the fat quickly (unless I am getting stupidly lean again).

Note: those current pics are taken glycogen depleted and virtually no carb intake, gonna get some better ones once I am done with this stupid cut

You look great there bro. What is your before and after weight there?

I am doing my first cut lol. I really want to see how I look lean.

[Znik]

You look great there bro. What is your before and after weight there?

I am doing my first cut lol. I really want to see how I look lean.

The before is about 188-189lbs the current 204-207lbs (can't remember what depletion state I had at the point) .

I was still carrying a ton of fat in my lower body in the before pics, just my upper body that's ridiculously lean compared to lower (got them female fat genetics).

[Znik]

Nailed it, 14 lbs down in 6 days. Exactly according to plan, hopefully the refeed goes according to plan as well and I avoid the usual excessive bloating.

But fuk, today there is a massive psychological warfare going on inside my head.

[D-Wade7288]

Well brahs....I am officially a little over 1 month post comp and have been telling everyone that I have been considering dabbling into powerlifting.

Today-Got 255 Rest Paused for 1. Went for 275, but failed. Perhaps I'll get back into the 300s again without having to bulk up to 225. Always felt sloppy there.

Appears Znik and the squad are holding it down and making ALLL KINDZZ OF GAINNZZZ

[skullcrusher149]

Did front squats for the first time since December, was curious to see what my 1RM was after that amount of time off. Hit a 325 in December at a body-weight of 215ish (I ran Smolov JR. for front squats), and hit a 285 at a body-weight of 185 yesterday. I'm actually pleasantly surprised by that. Hopefully I can hit 315+ in the next couple of months at my current body-weight.

I haven't really been able to back squat for a couple of years now due to a scapula issue on my right side, but I always made sure I kept my front squats nice and strong. I also hit abs harder than ever during the last 6 months and I attribute that almost entirely to my 285 FS yesterday.

[Znik]

Well brahs....I am officially a little over 1 month post comp and have been telling everyone that I have been considering dabbling into powerlifting.

Today-Got 255 Rest Paused for 1. Went for 275, but failed. Perhaps I'll get back into the 300s again without having to bulk up to 225. Always felt sloppy there.

Appears Znik and the squad are holding it down and making ALLL KINDZZ OF GAINNZZZ

255 on what ? By the number I assume bench but could be wrong

And I am not making any gainzzz just lots of lossezzz. But will be making gainzz soon! Think I might actually be done with this cut now, seem to be around 4-5% bodyfat now and not sure if I want to go through the hell of dropping the last 1-2% when the fked up skin won't show that much difference anyway.

[Nexxus]

guys seriously is metabolic damage after a diet a real thing or no? Should you reverse diet or just jump immediately back to like 5-10% below your previous maintenance and work from there?

I wouldn't say I'm shredded now, but been dieting 8 or so weeks, around 10-12% now I guess. And I think I got some muscle to fill out/grow quickly once I end this cut since I just came back from some time off from the gym.

IDK if I should just reverse diet or just get back to near maintenance after I decide to end cut..

[Znik]

guys seriously is metabolic damage after a diet a real thing or no? Should you reverse diet or just jump immediately back to like 5-10% below your previous maintenance and work from there?

I wouldn't say I'm shredded now, but been dieting 8 or so weeks, around 10-12% now I guess. And I think I got some muscle to fill out/grow quickly once I end this cut since I just came back from some time off from the gym.

IDK if I should just reverse diet or just get back to near maintenance after I decide to end cut..

It's not metabolic "damage" it's metabolic adaption and yes it is real. The longer the cut is or size of deficit the longer the reverse diet should be.

If you know your current maintenance you can pretty much jump up close to that, maintain for a week and then slowly increase calories over one week (should be plenty to recover from a 8-12 week cut), that should bump all your hormones,NEAT and adaptions back to baseline.

The main important thing is that you don't want to go very high above maintenance until levels have normalized as fat gain is going to be massively prioritized once glycogen stores are saturated (or at once if you eat a ton of fat)

[Nexxus]

Yeah my cut won't take longer than 12 weeks for sure. I'll prolly just bump back to around maintenance over 2 weeks, where i just add like 500kcals a week haha (like a 2 week reverse diet lol). Then much more slowly adjust calories from there. Thx brah

Edit: and ur right about fat being prioritzed as storage!! Had the munchies a couple days ago cuz thx weed. Ate 250g of fat (5500kcal binge) and idk but i think i actually stored some fat gained 7lbs the next day LOL, but alrdy lost 4 of those. The last 3 should be gone in a couple days i think. Need to watch out what i eat if im gonna get blazed (which i prolly wont as much now that my masters degree is about to start this coming week).

Edit 2: then for when i plan on lean bulking. Instead of just adding more calories to everyday. I think ill just add a lot more calories for a couple days of the week like the weekend. This way i can really splurge. On weekends. I'm assuming my maintenance between 3000-3500, so if i could eat 3200kcal regularly but then on weekends have like 4000, that'd be a pretty nice lean bulk with some extra fun for the weekends idk got this idea from brad loomis revent videos on 3dmj on how he dieted/recomped super slow, he said you could def do the same while bulking. I mean, obviously i wont start immediately with 4k calorie weekend days but work up to it as my "metabolism adapts"

[Znik]

^
Not a big fan of variable intake, as our bodies tend to suck at doing two things at once. So if the lower intake on weekdays allows for some glycogen depletion (if you hit a deficit), glycogen replenishment will be prioritized over growing new muscle tissue. Restoring the body energy stores always(well nearly, there are some genetic freaks) take priority over creating new muscle tissue as that is a energy expensive thing to do.

So in a sense you risk hindering potential gains, not likely to be a huge amount but I always like my setups to be optimal.


eta:
Glycogen supercompensation hitting me hard, my mouth and throat feel as dry as a desert no matter how much I drink.
Muscles still dehydrated though, can still make indentations in my bicep.

[TypeNirvash]

So close to the end;

[meremortal]

So close to the end;

Mirin, you're looking great brah, how many more pounds you planning on dropping?

Also, the new hairstyle looks better

[atgbrahsrs]

^
Not a big fan of variable intake, as our bodies tend to suck at doing two things at once. So if the lower intake on weekdays allows for some glycogen depletion (if you hit a deficit), glycogen replenishment will be prioritized over growing new muscle tissue. Restoring the body energy stores always(well nearly, there are some genetic freaks) take priority over creating new muscle tissue as that is a energy expensive thing to do.

So in a sense you risk hindering potential gains, not likely to be a huge amount but I always like my setups to be optimal.

.

so you prefer to keep a steady daily surplus, eating somewhat the same (calories) everyday ?

[atgbrahsrs]

So close to the end;

looking juicy

[Znik]

so you prefer to keep a steady daily surplus, eating somewhat the same (calories) everyday ?

Yup, doing so ensures full glycogen saturation and stable fat stores, so muscle synthesis is always ready in terms of intake.

TypeNirvash: Looking good, how lean are you planning to get ?



200g of Cheerios is a lot of cheerios btw, combined with nearly a liter of milk and 2 scoops of whey, especially when you had a shake and a ton of pasta 2 hours prior. Feels like I am going to burst.

So far so good, only around 1000g of carbs left to eat tomorrow

[Solomonlike]

Is ECA considered natty? If not, then I don't belong here.

[Znik]

Is ECA considered natty? If not, then I don't belong here.

Only if you skip the A and go for the EC as the A serves no purpose and can actually be harmful in the stack.

[Solomonlike]

Only if you skip the A and go for the EC as the A serves no purpose and can actually be harmful in the stack.

I've read that the aspirin serves no purpose unless you're really obese but I never heard it could be harmful to the stack. Source?

[TypeNirvash]

Mirin, you're looking great brah, how many more pounds you planning on dropping?

Also, the new hairstyle looks better

Thanks, brah I think after this next week of UD 2.0 I may hit maintenance for a while. Want to gather all my strength back!

looking juicy

Soon.jpg!

Yup, doing so ensures full glycogen saturation and stable fat stores, so muscle synthesis is always ready in terms of intake.

TypeNirvash: Looking good, how lean are you planning to get ?



200g of Cheerios is a lot of cheerios btw, combined with nearly a liter of milk and 2 scoops of whey, especially when you had a shake and a ton of pasta 2 hours prior. Feels like I am going to burst.

So far so good, only around 1000g of carbs left to eat tomorrow

Just one more week of UD 2.0. Don't think I'm ready to be striated yet. One day, but not today

I'll wait until I've hit natural limit before starting to get that lean. I think this is about as lean as I can get. Gonna' hit a very conservative bulk this time around.

Only if you skip the A and go for the EC as the A serves no purpose and can actually be harmful in the stack.

What does the A stand for anyway?

[Znik]

I've read that the aspirin serves no purpose unless you're really obese but I never heard it could be harmful to the stack. Source?

Aspirin is linked to various organ side effects and the previous two compounds share the same anti-clotting mechanisms.

http://examine.com/supplements/eca/

Just one more week of UD 2.0. Don't think I'm ready to be striated yet. One day, but not today

I'll wait until I've hit natural limit before starting to get that lean. I think this is about as lean as I can get. Gonna' hit a very conservative bulk this time around.
What does the A stand for anyway?

Come on! Join me in striatedness, it's so much fun!

A = aspirin, usually baby aspirin.

[Datsek]

watching arnold interviews, reading about his life making me contemplate tour de france.. if only such size was possible natty.. (not gear talking, natty problems)

[TypeNirvash]

http://examine.com/supplements/eca/



Come on! Join me in striatedness, it's so much fun!

TFW not benching 315 for reps kind of makes me not want to continue...

But I've gotten this far...


>.> Decisions.

We'll see...

A = aspirin, usually baby aspirin.

>.> I feel like I wouldn't take aspirin unless I needed it, anyhow.

watching arnold interviews, reading about his life making me contemplate tour de france.. if only such size was possible natty.. (not gear talking, natty problems)

At your own risk, brah. There are a plethora of health problems that are associated with that.

Everybody is tempted to do it at times. But if you're just a hobbyist lifter, and not in the fitness industry... Why do you need to?

[Solomonlike]

http://examine.com/supplements/eca/

Cool. Thanks. Guess I'll drop the A. Will get you when I come off r/c tomorrow.

[RajahSingh]

So close to the end;

I'd like more traps but you look awesome

[Datsek]

At your own risk, brah. There are a plethora of health problems that are associated with that.

Everybody is tempted to do it at times. But if you're just a hobbyist lifter, and not in the fitness industry... Why do you need to?

Just depressing knowing that theres a limit to what is attainable. I wanna know what it feels like to be lean at 100kg and have 20 inch arms

[TypeNirvash]

I'd like more traps but you look awesome

Really appreciate it

Yeah, traps is a department where I am severely lacking. Will be attempting to develop them a little more during my next bulk. Hopefully they'll get much bigger this time around--lord knows I need em'!

Just depressing knowing that theres a limit to what is attainable. I wanna know what it feels like to be lean at 100kg and have 20 inch arms

To be honest, when you hit your natural limit, you'll likely look much better than you think. The natural limit is esoteric in my opinion. Most of us will never truly see it.

Those that do, I'd think, will be fairly well rewarded. After all, I think that the only way to hit the natural limit is to;

1) Train with progressive overload over the course of a decade.
2) Progress to a point where you can be honest about your dietary habits.
3) Be honest with yourself regarding your physique, without nit-picking.
4) When you stall, just consume a high surplus for a small amount of time to see if that adds weight.
5) Be patient.


^Most people get stuck somewhere along the way and end up turning to dat dere. But I believe truly that if you've stuck it through the entire time, you'll be rewarded with more than just a nice physique. You're likely going to get a great mindset from it along with a strong sense of body-image.

After all, people who turn to dat dere mid-way through are usually upset with something about their body--be it progress, or something else. They'll never truly be satisfied until they realize that they need to work on their body-image.


I mean, in the 50's men who looked like this were considered Bodybuilders.



To be honest, a guy walking around looking like that today still looks very good. The problem that we have now, is that we're clouded by pictures of guys that look like this;



And we're to assume that they look like that year-round. In reality, they really don't maintain that level of body fat year round because it's hard, and unhealthy. But the industry doesn't tell us that because they want our money. As a result, we're questing for the ultimate physique year round... We're constantly bombarded by pictures and advertisements of men who are in a state of physique that they only maintain for a few weeks out of the year and are brainwashed into thinking that it is where we need to be. That couldn't be further from the truth. At the same time, the physique above could definitely be attained naturally... but maintaining that level of shred naturally could be very tough.

But you know what? Looking like that guy from the 50's year round isn't a bad way to go.

Hell, something like this is probably the best way to go;


^At least with a physique like this, if you ever had some kind of event in which you needed to shred down you could do so in a fairly short amount of time. No reason to go to a lower BF% than this yearly...

And let's be real tea... Do you really need to be walking around like this?



Do you know the kind of money you would need to throw down to get like this? Hell, do you know that not even 1% of bodybuilders make enough money to consider it a career?

Not worth it, IMO.

[KRANE]

Nailed it, 14 lbs down in 6 days. Exactly according to plan, hopefully the refeed goes according to plan as well and I avoid the usual excessive bloating.

But fuk, today there is a massive psychological warfare going on inside my head.

Yes, I was afraid of this. Nevertheless, we will all collectively hold your hand and help you through it.

Well brahs....I am officially a little over 1 month post comp and have been telling everyone that I have been considering dabbling into powerlifting.

No "dabble." Do or not do.

[Znik]

Really appreciate it

Yeah, traps is a department where I am severely lacking. Will be attempting to develop them a little more during my next bulk. Hopefully they'll get much bigger this time around--lord knows I need em'!

The curse of low trap inserts.

Yes, I was afraid of this. Nevertheless, we will all collectively hold your hand and help you through it. No "dabble." Do or not do.

I got through it, currently on the refeeding. 1 more meal to go and I am done with that as well.


I have decided to finally end my cut, pretty satisfied with the shreddedness now. Using the super compensation as a buffer for a weeks maintenance and as a primer for growth, going to maintain for a week (well drop some due to super compensation fading) and then start gaining again. Maybe ill cut this low again in 3-5 years when I hit my genetic potential, maybe.