|
-
02-21-2013, 08:28 AM #61ignore list: MuscleXtreme
”The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you’re a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black.”
–Henry Rollins
-
02-21-2013, 08:30 AM #62
-
02-21-2013, 10:01 AM #63
You are actually mistaken here. Quantum Physics is entirely based on randomness. And all of the material world is made of subatomic particles which obey the laws of Quantum Physics. And yet, at a macroscopic scale, this randomness turns into very predictable, precise behavior.
Follow my 2018 competition prep here:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175566421&p=1547462721#post1547462721
-
02-21-2013, 10:05 AM #64
-
-
02-21-2013, 10:23 AM #65
-
02-21-2013, 10:43 AM #66
-
02-21-2013, 10:49 AM #67ignore list: MuscleXtreme
”The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you’re a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black.”
–Henry Rollins
-
02-21-2013, 11:38 AM #68
-
-
02-21-2013, 12:15 PM #69
ALTER2EGO -to- SY2502:
You are mistaken, and here's why: Quantum Physics does not claim accidental occurrences produce precision, as you asserted above. In fact, Quantum Physics rely on a level of predictability. For instance, one of the five premises of Quantum Physics is as follows:
"It is physically impossible to know both the position and the momentum of a particle at the same time. The more precisely one is known, the less precise the measurement of the other is."
(Source: Oracle Think Quest Education Foundation)
As stated by another source, specifically, NOVA:
"So a quantum treatment of electron scattering needs to include not only the quantum nature of the electrons, but also the quantum nature of the photon.... Well, you can calculate the properties of the photon that must be emitted to scatter the electrons. "
Notice that the first source I quoted indicates that at some level, there is a need for something being "precisely known." It goes so far as to state, that either the position or the momentum of a particle is required to be known, although both are never known at the same time. NOVA goes even further by stating that scientists must know the quantum nature of the electrons as well as the quantum nature of the photon and they must be able to then calculate the properties of the photon that will be emitted once they know the nature of the photon. Suffice it to say, even with the info the scientists gather for their calculations and their predictions, they are frequently wrong.
Truth be told, no scientist in his or her right mind would argue that precision can result from accidental events—as you erroneously stated. Why so? Because "accident" and "precision" are polar opposites. They cancel each other out. Below once again are the definitions of both terms, which I previously posted in my OP.
DEFINITION OF "ACCIDENT":
"a nonessential event that happens by chance and has undesirable or unfortunate results"
(Source: Websters New Collegiate Dictionary
DEFINITION OF "PRECISION":
"the quality of being precise; exactness, accuracy""That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
-
02-21-2013, 12:33 PM #70
So you are contesting the fact that matter behaves randomly at subatomic levels and precisely at macroscopic levels? Please explain.
In fact, Quantum Physics rely on a level of predictability. For instance, one of the five premises of Quantum Physics is as follows:
"It is physically impossible to know both the position and the momentum of a particle at the same time. The more precisely one is known, the less precise the measurement of the other is."
(Source: Oracle Think Quest Education Foundation)Follow my 2018 competition prep here:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175566421&p=1547462721#post1547462721
-
02-21-2013, 12:40 PM #71
I've concluded, based on posting style alone, that Alter2Ego is a JW.
Am I wrong Alter2Ego?'On many levels, mathematics itself operates as Whiteness. Who gets credit for doing and developing mathematics, who is capable in mathematics, and who is seen as part of the mathematical community is generally viewed as White' - Rochelle Gutierrez, Professor of Mathematics at the University of Illinois.
-
02-21-2013, 01:09 PM #72
You guys might find it interesting to know that Alter2Ego has done this exact same thing on other forums and been banned for it:
https://www.google.com/search?q=For%...-a&channel=rcs
And yes, he's a JW. From another forum:
https://forums.digitalpoint.com/thre...dents.2529278/
Because YHWH/Jehovah/Yahweh presents evidence of his existence, while the others are mere fiction of the imagination. Evidence for the existence of the God of the Judeo-Christian Bible is seen in the precision in the world around us. Precision indicates deliberation. Something deliberately done indicates the presence of an intelligent being.ignore list: MuscleXtreme
”The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you’re a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black.”
–Henry Rollins
-
-
02-21-2013, 02:02 PM #73
-
02-21-2013, 02:04 PM #74
Holy crap, that's a lot of copying and pasting... Mind seriously blown. Look at all the different places. hannity.com. agileguitarforum.com. pensacolafishingforum.com. city-data.com. Serious question: does this not count as spam?
BTW, what you cited doesn't show that he's a JW. Non-JWs have used the word "Jehovah."Off the bb.com forums for Lent; may check PMs occasionally.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0LleY73_pY
CADTEMAMSDPFWAMPFIPWRCIBLDWTBOCS Crew: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159725621&p=1196708161&viewfull=1#post1196708161
"[I]t is necessary for one who wishes to speak about the truth to distinguish precisely the meanings of what is being said, for error arises out of ambiguity." -- St. Maximos the Confessor
-
02-21-2013, 03:00 PM #75
ALTER2EGO -to- SY2502:
No, I not contesting the supposed "randomness" of the behavior of "matter" (electrons, photons, particles, etc.). I am contesting your assertion that precision can result from accidental events. Quantum Physics does not help your argument along that line because what you and others view as the "random" behavior of matter has no bearing on how the matter came into existence. Not one single scientist can truthfully claim or even prove that electrons, photons, particles, or anything else in the universe resulted from accidental occurrences. They cannot, because accidental occurrences, by definition, cannot result in precision. In fact, scientists acknowledged there is precision within the "matter" they are studying.
Remember, we are talking two different things here: (1) the precision within matter (electrons, photons, particles, etc.), and (2) the behavior of matter, which scientists—because of their limited knowledge—claim is random behavior. For instance, while the report from NOVA insists Big Bang theory/myth is the explanation for the universe, it concedes as follows (notice the words that are bolded):
"While the Big Bang theory explains how the universe has expanded and cooled since it began, it is quite silent on what "pulled the trigger," so to speak. We simply don’t know what started the process. How there could be nothing at one moment and an entire baby universe the next? ""That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
-
02-21-2013, 03:01 PM #76ignore list: MuscleXtreme
”The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you’re a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black.”
–Henry Rollins
-
-
02-21-2013, 03:03 PM #77
First.... your use of colors are annoying and are not the best ones to use on a black background.
Second, whats the issue with the fact that they said exactly what the big bang theory is? It is and has always been an explanation of the expansion of the universe after it began. They're just stating that "we don't know" when talking about why or how the universe began. That's correct since we don't.R.I.P. Mainsqueeze530
Better listen to this guy. He has the most trustworthy beard I've ever seen. -bigfor15
[A]LPHA [B]EARD [C]REW
-
02-21-2013, 03:05 PM #78ignore list: MuscleXtreme
”The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you’re a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black.”
–Henry Rollins
-
02-21-2013, 03:08 PM #79
ALTER2EGO -to- SY2502:
Again, what you and others view as randomness boils down to "scientists don't understand why" X happens. Often when scientists—mere imperfect humans—cannot deal with the fact that human knowledge has its limits, they claim certain things are "random." You also seem to be ignoring the fact that Quantum Physics is basically a theory and that scientific theories are nothing more than speculations aka "a group of hypotheses that can be disproven.""That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
-
02-21-2013, 03:11 PM #80ignore list: MuscleXtreme
”The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you’re a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black.”
–Henry Rollins
-
-
02-21-2013, 03:12 PM #81
I was simply contesting your assertion that randomness cannot give rise to precision. Because it contradicts the world we see. That's all.
Not one single scientist can truthfully claim or even prove that electrons, photons, particles, or anything else in the universe resulted from accidental occurrences.
They cannot, because accidental occurrences, by definition, cannot result in precision. In fact, scientists acknowledged there is precision within the "matter" they are studying.
Remember, we are talking two different things here: (1) the precision within matter (electrons, photons, particles, etc.), and (2) the behavior of matter, which scientists—because of their limited knowledge—claim is random behavior.
Oh and for the rest of the posters, I doubt OP is a Jehovah's Witness, for the very simple reason he's actually trying to reason and argue his beliefs, instead of just parroting canned answers.Follow my 2018 competition prep here:
https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175566421&p=1547462721#post1547462721
-
02-21-2013, 03:24 PM #82
Not really interested in this argument, but I find it very odd that the OP is using dictionary definitions so centrally in his argument, so I figured I'd ask:
OP, would you accept this definition of "accident?" -- lack of intention or necessity: chanceOff the bb.com forums for Lent; may check PMs occasionally.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0LleY73_pY
CADTEMAMSDPFWAMPFIPWRCIBLDWTBOCS Crew: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159725621&p=1196708161&viewfull=1#post1196708161
"[I]t is necessary for one who wishes to speak about the truth to distinguish precisely the meanings of what is being said, for error arises out of ambiguity." -- St. Maximos the Confessor
-
02-21-2013, 03:31 PM #83
Again, OP is a troll who has been banned from numerous forums for this kind of behaviour - spamming without debating and egregious use of annoying fonts.
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand."
-
02-21-2013, 03:32 PM #84
No one is doubting that the science is sound and coldly specific, efficient and complicated. No one is trying to dismiss the scientific facts you're stating as anything other than accurate if they indeed are.
The emotional investment on your part is attributing mathematical and cohesive order to physics found in nature or around the universe as designed or divinely inspired by some creator.
All you have done so far is spout science, and then say it had to be a god.
So again, since you avoided detailing the real proof that everyone is interested in hearing, how do you get from science facts and the seemingly guided yet chaotic nature of things to a "GOD." And not just any god, but yours specifically that you are so enthusiastic about proving the existence of.
You are obviously a fan of facts as your condescending and bratty tone suggests, so where are the facts linking any of what you've talked about to a god that has intervened in our lives and sent us moral landscape and ideas about the nature of the universe that run contrary to every science fact you've mentioned.
-
-
02-21-2013, 03:35 PM #85
ALTER2EGO -to- TH3SHR3DD3R:
Thanks for flattering me by doing internet research on my screen name. I did mention at Post 66 in this thread (directly above on this page) that I've participated at over two dozen religion forums. So why are you repeating what I've already disclosed? And, yes, I tend to debate the same topics because they are meaningful topics to me. However, I do respond directly to people wherever I debate the topics. I don't merely post stuff and disappear.
BTW: If you're going to tell the story, at least tell it right. I have only been banned from one atheist-moderated forum for discussing "Precision in Nature = Evidence of God" and "Macroevolution Myth". On the other hand, I have been banned from several "Christian" moderated forums for debunking Christendom's 3-prong god (Trinity) and its version of Dante's fictional hell. The fact that I did the debunking with the Bible that they claim they respect didn't set well with the Trinitarians and the hellfire howlers.
It might also interest you to know that at the atheist-dominated forum, I usually get cursed out by the atheists when they realize they cannot overcome the scientific info and arguments I present. The atheist moderators do absolutely nothing to stop it. In fact, in some instances, atheist moderators join in and harass me when they see that the regular atheist members aren't doing too hot during debates with me."That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
-
02-21-2013, 03:46 PM #86'On many levels, mathematics itself operates as Whiteness. Who gets credit for doing and developing mathematics, who is capable in mathematics, and who is seen as part of the mathematical community is generally viewed as White' - Rochelle Gutierrez, Professor of Mathematics at the University of Illinois.
-
02-21-2013, 03:59 PM #87Off the bb.com forums for Lent; may check PMs occasionally.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0LleY73_pY
CADTEMAMSDPFWAMPFIPWRCIBLDWTBOCS Crew: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159725621&p=1196708161&viewfull=1#post1196708161
"[I]t is necessary for one who wishes to speak about the truth to distinguish precisely the meanings of what is being said, for error arises out of ambiguity." -- St. Maximos the Confessor
-
02-21-2013, 04:11 PM #88
ALTER2EGO -to- MR BEER:
You already made that false claim in my other thread dealing with Macroevolution myth and I responded to you there. Do you imagine for one minute that repeating the same tripe in two different threads will make it true?
I have never been banned from any forum for the use of this particular font size and colors. At every single website where I debate (and I've been to over two dozen), I use the same fonts and colors when the website permits color and font choices. Not once have I been banned for doing so. Additionally, I actively debate people at every website where I've had an account. Next you will be claiming that you touch based with the moderators at other websites and they told you that I was banned for doing what you falsely claimed above.
BTW: I notice you have not once addressed the topic of my two threads where you posted the above inaccuracies. It seems you are only interested in increasing your post count and at the same time raise a false alarm for moderators here--so they can ban me.
The next time you post the above lies, don't hold your breath waiting for a response from me."That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." (Psalms 83:18)
-
-
02-21-2013, 04:46 PM #89
Don't be flattered. I Googled the title of this thread (Precision in Nature = Evidence of God), knowing that the argument within was nothing more than a rehashing of the cosmological fallacy and the weak anthropic principle, wondering if anyone else had worded it in such a way as you did. As it turns out, they haven't. But I did not Google your screen name.
Originally Posted by Alter2Ego
Originally Posted by Alter2EgoLast edited by TH3SHR3DD3R; 02-21-2013 at 04:47 PM. Reason: Edited for Color
ignore list: MuscleXtreme
”The Iron never lies to you. You can walk outside and listen to all kinds of talk, get told that you’re a god or a total bastard. The Iron will always kick you the real deal. The Iron is the great reference point, the all-knowing perspective giver. Always there like a beacon in the pitch black.”
–Henry Rollins
-
02-21-2013, 05:00 PM #90Off the bb.com forums for Lent; may check PMs occasionally.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0LleY73_pY
CADTEMAMSDPFWAMPFIPWRCIBLDWTBOCS Crew: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=159725621&p=1196708161&viewfull=1#post1196708161
"[I]t is necessary for one who wishes to speak about the truth to distinguish precisely the meanings of what is being said, for error arises out of ambiguity." -- St. Maximos the Confessor
Similar Threads
-
there really is no point in debating whether or not god exists
By dumac in forum Religion and PoliticsReplies: 275Last Post: 03-13-2012, 06:56 PM -
One of the main problems with religion is...
By JAGERBOY in forum Religion and PoliticsReplies: 145Last Post: 03-16-2007, 09:28 PM -
Why do you believe/not believe in God
By crazynewzealander in forum Religion and PoliticsReplies: 119Last Post: 02-24-2006, 02:15 AM
Bookmarks