and will it waste muscle??
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12-08-2008, 04:35 PM #1
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12-08-2008, 04:37 PM #2
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12-08-2008, 04:38 PM #3
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12-08-2008, 04:40 PM #4
thermogenics are pumped full of different caffeine extracts or whatever you want to call them. They work nicely, so I would say it plays a role ... maybe not a major role but definitely not a minor one at that.
BRB... cutting for 12 weeks
Bench: 145kg (320lbs) x 1 <<< NEW PR August, 2009
Deadlift: 210kg (463lbs) x 1 <<< NEW PR December, 2009
ATG Squat: 165kg (364bs) x 1 <<< NEW PR December, 2009
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12-08-2008, 04:41 PM #5
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12-08-2008, 04:44 PM #6
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12-08-2008, 04:45 PM #7
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12-08-2008, 04:45 PM #8
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12-08-2008, 04:45 PM #9
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12-08-2008, 04:50 PM #10
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12-08-2008, 04:52 PM #11
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12-08-2008, 04:59 PM #12
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12-08-2008, 05:05 PM #13
Last edited by crunchfit; 12-08-2008 at 05:10 PM.
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12-08-2008, 05:10 PM #14
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12-08-2008, 05:12 PM #15
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12-08-2008, 05:31 PM #16
k then here's some studies saying otherwise
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/33/5/989
another study:
Influence of caffeine and carbohydrate feedings on endurance performance.
Ivy JL, Costill DL, Fink WJ, Lower RW.
Nine trained cyclists were studied to determine the effects of caffeine (CAF), and glucose polymer (GP) feedings on work production (kpm) during two hr of isokinetic cycling exercise (80 rpm). Ingestion of 250 mg of CAF 60 min prior to the ride was followed by ingestion of an additional 250 mg fed at 15 min intervals over the first 90 min of the exercise. This treatment significantly increased work production by 7.4% and Vo2 by 7.3% as compared to control (C) while the subjects' perception of exertion remained unchanged. Ingestion of approximately 90 g of GP during the first 90 min (12.8 g/15 min) of the exercise had no effect on total work production or Vo2. It was, however, effective in reducing the rate of fatigue over the last 30 min of cycling. Although GP maintained blood glucose and insulin levels (P less than or equal to 0.05) above those of the C and CAF trials, total CHO utilization did not differ between treatments. During the last 70 min of the CAF trial, however, fat oxidation was elevated 31% and appeared to provide the substrate needed for the increased work production during this period of exercise. These data, therefore, demonstrate an enhanced rate of lipid catabolism and work production following the ingestion of caffeine.
another possible reasonable study:
Effects of caffeine on the metabolic and catecholamine responses to exercise in 5 and 28 degrees C.
Anderson DE, Hickey MS.
Human Performance Laboratory, Ball State University, Muncie, IN 47306.
The influence of caffeine on the metabolic and catecholamine responses to mild exercise in a cold and a warm environment was studied in eight healthy males. The subjects performed 60 min of cycling at 50% VO2max in a cold environment (5 degrees C and 70% relative humidity) and a warm environment (28 degrees C and 50% relative humidity) 30 min after ingesting caffeine (5 mg.kg-1 body weight) or placebo (dextrose). Caffeine ingestion prior to exercise in the warm environment resulted in increased plasma epinephrine, with no effect on plasma norepinephrine. Neither lipid nor carbohydrate metabolism was altered by caffeine in the warm trial. Exercise in the cold environment (placebo) produced increased VO2 and carbohydrate metabolism, decreased lipid metabolism, and no difference in plasma catecholamines compared with the warm-placebo trial. Responses to the combination of caffeine ingestion and the cold environment did not differ from cold-placebo responses in VO2 during the cycling bout. However, in the cold-caffeine trial plasma epinephrine was elevated. In addition, fat oxidation and serum free fatty acids were elevated in the cold-caffeine condition. Carbohydrate oxidation was depressed, while serum glucose and blood lactate were elevated in this trial compared to cold-placebo. Thus, caffeine increases plasma epinephrine; cold increases oxygen consumption and carbohydrate metabolism, while decreasing lipid metabolism; and the combination of caffeine and cold during exercise increases plasma epinephrine and lipid metabolism, but decreases carbohydrate metabolism.
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This is an on going debate whether it happens or not. Personally it was what I was taught, but I am open to new ideas as there are plenty of studies for either side of the argument.
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12-08-2008, 05:45 PM #17
Might the glucose polymer have had an effect?
Jeffrey F. Horowitz, Ricardo Mora-Rodriguez, Lauri O. Byerley, and Edward F. Coyle
The Human Performance Laboratory, Department of Kinesiology and Health Education and Division of Nutritional Sciences, The University of Texas at Austin, Austin, Texas 78712
This study determined if the suppression of lipolysis after preexercise carbohydrate ingestion reduces fat oxidation during exercise. Six healthy, active men cycled 60 min at 44 ? 2% peak oxygen consumption, exactly 1 h after ingesting 0.8 g/kg of glucose (Glc) or fructose (Fru) or after an overnight fast (Fast). The mean plasma insulin concentration during the 50 min before exercise was different among Fast, Fru, and Glc (8 ? 1, 17 ? 1, and 38 ? 5 ?U/ml, respectively; P < 0.05). After 25 min of exercise, whole body lipolysis was 6.9 ? 0.2, 4.3 ? 0.3, and 3.2 ? 0.5 ?mol ? kg-1 ? min-1 and fat oxidation was 6.1 ? 0.2, 4.2 ? 0.5, and 3.1 ? 0.3 ?mol ? kg-1 ? min-1 during Fast, Fru, and Glc, respectively (all P < 0.05). During Fast, fat oxidation was less than lipolysis (P < 0.05), whereas fat oxidation approximately equaled lipolysis during Fru and Glc. In an additional trial, the same subjects ingested glucose (0.8 g/kg) 1 h before exercise and lipolysis was simultaneously increased by infusing Intralipid and heparin throughout the resting and exercise periods (Glc+Lipid). This elevation of lipolysis during Glc+Lipid increased fat oxidation 30% above Glc (4.0 ? 0.4 vs. 3.1 ? 0.3 ?mol ? kg-1 ? min-1; P < 0.05), confirming that lipolysis limited fat oxidation. In summary, small elevations in plasma insulin before exercise suppressed lipolysis during exercise to the point at which it equaled and appeared to limit fat oxidation.Last edited by crunchfit; 12-08-2008 at 05:47 PM.
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12-08-2008, 05:50 PM #18
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12-08-2008, 05:54 PM #19
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06-22-2011, 03:16 PM #20
Um..No dude your wrong..
"I don't think so."
IN reply to crunchfit:
Your 2 journal entries do not sufficiently answer the question posed. One is a comparison between young and old males of the effects of caffeine. The other is a comparison between two different types of caffeine sources. In both journal entries the end result is a comparison of two different groups or sources and does not answer the question posed. Though, obviously if they are comparing the two, there must be enough of a result to measure in the first place. So, the answer would be YES!Last edited by gsokol1026; 06-22-2011 at 03:19 PM. Reason: mispelled
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