How important are genetics?

[2nd_chance]

How important are genetics as it relates to bodybuilding? I believe that genetics plays a huge part in developing your physique. You can ignore it, and some should, but eventually you will need to accept that there are genetic limitations on what you are able to build. I really don't think most people on here understand genetics. They say, "look at me... I was skinny before and I overcame bad genetics." Being skinny has very little to do with your genetic potential to add muscle. IMO, it is mostly your frame. You can't change your skeletal structure and each person was designed to carry only so much muscle mass. Another famous myth that I see on this forum is that AAS will trump genetics and everyone who takes them will be huge. There are plenty of guys who take AAS and are nowhere near being huge; probably 90% of all AAS users aren't huge. If is was that easy there would be more than 13 winners in the HISTORY of the Mr. Olympia.

I used to ignore the role of genetics for the first couple of years I trained, as if understanding them would in some way reduce my results. The bottom line is that I am only interested in improving my physique and competing with myself. And as far as I know, there is no end to being able to do that. It may not happen as fast as I want, but it will happen with hard work and determination.

Don't get me wrong. Less than perfect genetics is NO EXCUSE for not working hard and making gains. I'm talking to advanced and experience lifters with this post. Those who've already sold out and there's no turning back. But, in my opinion, genetics plays a significant role in the building of muscle.

[IronCharles]

People with "good" genetics have an advantage over people with "poor" or "average" genetics. But everyone is capable of dramatic improvements in their physique.









The best case I can think of is Rich Gaspari. If you see pictures of him as a young teen, he was very scrawny, with narrow shoulders and a wide waist. Yet, he overcame his inherited lack of aesthetics to become the second best bodybuilder in the world, second only to a genetically gifted Lee Haney.

[Brackneyc]

People with "good" genetics have an advantage over people with "poor" or "average" genetics. But everyone is capable of dramatic improvements in their physique.









The best case I can think od is Rich Gaspari.

I always held him in the highest regard when I got into this hobby. Close to the same age and height. That is where the similarities end.

[muttytwist]

I personaly beleive that nutrition will take you farther, or limit you quicker, than your genetics will. It's very rare that someone actually get to their genetic limits, IMHO.

[Getsum]

Genetics are important but there's also doing whatever it takes to get the most out of your genetics and the simple truth is that most people aren't willing to do whatever it takes.

[Big_Sky_Guy]

Genetics are hugely important

There may be more ways to look at it, but I see it as two primary forms:
1) Physical structure- clavicle width, hip width, where your muscles insert and therefore the overall shape you will achieve naturally, etc, etc
2) How your body responds to training- do you have to crush yourself with heavy weights and massive volume to instigate growth or can you stimulate that same growth with more reasonable approaches and most likely less injuries. And the obvious for the pros- how do they respond to AAS. Hyper-responders will not need to use as much as an average responder (just keepin it real).

[2nd_chance]

I don't disagree with the above comments. But my point isn't that hard work can't achieve a LOT. It just seems that everyone is afraid to acknowledge the role of genetics. As for the pic of Phil as a basketball player, I'd look at him and say, "there's a guy with GREAT genetics." Combine that with his hard work and enhancement and you've got the 13th Mr. Olympia.

[Meatpants]

I can relate. My genetics suck. Many have been working out less time than me, and have had better results. With that being said, it is what it is, and I have had to face that. It took me awhile to finally realize it, but I always knew it. With that being said, I plan to keep training as there are no limits, but not set myself up for mental failure.

I am amazed at some of the folks on here. There are some folks really taking advantage of their good genetics.

[2nd_chance]

I mean it's like if I started a thread on the importance of diet or recovery, everyone wouldn't get defensive and start saying that it doesn't matter and that hard work will overcome the lack thereof.

I think it's because in our minds we all still want to be Arnold .

[ntrllftr]

Subbed! Interested to see what people post. I just hope it doesn't turn into a shytstorm of what this thread is about and dat dare cell tek stuff.

I personaly beleive that nutrition will take you farther, or limit you quicker, than your genetics will. It's very rare that someone actually get to their genetic limits, IMHO.

A while back there was a thread that someone posted a limits calculator. You would take some wrist/ankle measurements and it would tell you what your limits are roughly. I was just above most the numbers it said my limits were and just below on other body parts. Now I noticed that the past three years I have not gained significant amount and pretty much stalled. By the numbers the research on the calculation site I match the potential. So, I can agree with what you say mainly because so many people haven't lifted 3/4 of their life and the ones who started "later" have missed the boat on higher test levels to start the building process. Just how I see things.

[Meatpants]

I mean it's like if I started a thread on the importance of diet or recovery, everyone wouldn't get defensive and start saying that it doesn't matter and that hard work will overcome the lack thereof.

I think it's because in our minds we all still want to be Arnold .

Its hard for some to realize that there are limits. Then again, there are some people who claim pro wrestling is fake.

[ntrllftr]

Its hard for some to realize that there are limits. Then again, there are some people who claim pro wrestling is fake.

Hilarious! On spread.

[Meatpants]

A while back there was a thread that someone posted a limits calculator. You would take some wrist/ankle measurements and it would tell you what your limits are roughly. I was just above most the numbers it said my limits were and just below on other body parts. Now I noticed that the past three years I have not gained significant amount and pretty much stalled. By the numbers the research on the calculation site I match the potential. So, I can agree with what you say mainly because so many people haven't lifted 3/4 of their life and the ones who started "later" have missed the boat on higher test levels to start the building process. Just how I see things.

I have kicked myself many times for being such a lazy ass when I was younger. I can't even imagine where I would be now, if I had applied the same type of discipline I do now.

[ntrllftr]

I have kicked myself many times for being such a lazy ass when I was younger. I can't even imagine where I would be now, if I had applied the same type of discipline I do now.

I really believe that my earlier lifting built the foundation of what I have now. Since I've been lifting forever... I honestly don't know where I would be if I just started a year ago. In a whey I guess I can't really say any hard facts then, now can I?! But I still believe it though.

[OutOfStep]

Genetics are hands down THE most important factor AINEC. Sure, anyone can improve their body to some degree, but unless you picked the right parents, you aren't going to develop a bodybuilder's physique. Rich Gaspari is a lousy example of bad genetics. Maybe he didn't have as good a structure as some of the other pros, but anyone who goes on to become an IFBB pro and have the kind of career Rich did has outstanding bodybuilding genetics.

[Big_Sky_Guy]

I have good genetics to put on muscle. The aesthetic of how it looks based on my structure means I would be lucky to win a local show if I put in the next 10 years focusing on BB only. A person with superior genetic structure and response will still have to put in the same work, but they will most likely win the show within 5 years.

How many people do you know that have a nice athletic look and do nothing to maintain it? They eat reasonably and don't workout, yet look like they are in the gym 3-4 days a week. Being in the military, I have met several people just like that. If you could get them in the gym and eating right you would have a competitor on your hands.

All other things equal, it is about genetics. To take it 1 step further, the pros not only have to put on size and have it be aesthetically shaped, but they also have to diet and drop water perfectly along with getting glycogen back in the muscle to be huge, dry and ripped on stage. A lot of science involved, but also must have the genetic capacity to achieve that look without getting sick.

[latebloomingmom]

define 'good genetics' please?
is it tall and lanky?
short and stocky?
big and broad across the shoulders?
what is it really?

[Getsum]

Well, the other thing about there only being 13 Mr. Olympia winners is that someone had to knock off the top dog. Arnold, Yates, Coleman, Cutler...many won more than once but all those contestants on that stage were at the top of their game. It's a sport and sports are like that subjective based on the judges like bodybuilding and the Olympics, sometimes a little luck goes a long ways.

I'm trying to stick to individual sports but the same applies to team sports as well, the old "any given Sunday" comes to mind. There can be only one champ.

NASCAR, someone had to beat Jimmy and someone finally did...major props to Tony.
Tennis, going up against Federer and Nadal was a tough nut to crack, major props to Djokovic.
Golf, Tiger owned the golf world until his problems.
Boxing
Olympics

You see it all the time, the people reaching these competitions didn't get there solely based on their genetic potential. How many sad stories are there of people missing their window, throwing their chance away, or suffering a devastating injury or illness.

I understand the topic but I really hate discounting the work and sacrifice these competitors put in to simply earn their chance to walk out on that stage. I mean, look at some of the people that didn't win, Lou Ferrigno for instance.

How many people can say they did whatever it took, they started when they were young and in their prime, they left it all on the table but their genetics held them back? That's one hell of a statement to make IMHO.

[ljimd]

Since I've been on the forum here at bb.com (Sep '10) I have tried to stay away from threads about genetics
and the potential we all have because or in spite them. It seems most treat the discussion as if it were a sellout
or a downer or whatever to declare any kind of limits. Kudos to John Gargani who understands but still treads the ice. But I've been lifting (training, PL, OLY and bbing) for 50 years. I admit that those years have not been without periods of no activity, but none the less never too far from the iron. Usually, what I call my give up periods were caused by my decision not to take any chemical help. I watched guys around me in the gym grow and dwarf my progress to the point I could no longer stand it. Then back at it again. I have never been obese but I have ranged from 155#-200# and decent shape. Only in the 80's with the natural orgs that popped up (ANBC for one) did the fire reignite. Anyway to make a long story short, what I have come to understand is that once you have reached your genetic potential (and you will know when that is - no bigger, no stronger) is reached - that's it. All that is left is refinement.

I noted in my bodyspace a few months ago that I had found my notes from when I competed in the 80's and found that in the 23 year hiatus from comps that I climbed on stage at exactly the same weight in 2011 as then. I knew that I had competed in the 60's (as a teen) at 164#. And the cuts started from the mid 180's and ended the same. Dose of reality huh. Then I think - maybe I didn't push hard enough, eat right, something?
Enough of the sob story.

1965 - 164# - 18yo


1989 - 153# - 42yo


2011 - 153# - 63yo



I am really depressed just showing you this, but, it is what it is. This is my story and I hope you all have more success adding and keeping mass than I have. Good luck

[ntrllftr]

define 'good genetics' please?
is it tall and lanky?
short and stocky?
big and broad across the shoulders?
what is it really?

Please stay in the misc section!

[latebloomingmom]

Please stay in the misc section!

it's a legitimate question...
for example..I have heard that short guys can squat easier then tall guys? true or false?
I have heard that tall and lanky guys cannot put on the muscle as easily as a tall/broader kind of guy could..
any truth to this at all?

[ironwill2008]

define 'good genetics' please?
is it tall and lanky?
short and stocky?
big and broad across the shoulders?
what is it really?

For a bodybuilder?

*broad shoulders

*narrow waist

*small joints

*higher than average endogenous hormone levels

*mental affinity for repetitive hard work



(list is not intended to be all-inclusive, just some stuff off the top of my head)

[latebloomingmom]

For a bodybuilder?

*broad shoulders

*narrow waist

*small joints

*higher than average endogenous hormone levels

*mental affinity for repetitive hard work



(list is not intended to be all-inclusive, just some stuff off the top of my head)

thank you

[ironwill2008]

To get back OT, genetics frame an individual's maximum potential. For anyone approaching that level of development, it becomes the primary factor in further improvement.

[OutOfStep]

Anybody bringing up hard work, discipline, attention to diet, or whatever is completely missing the point. All that stuff is a given. That's like saying that you have to lift weights to look like a bodybuilder. No **** Sherlock. Your body's response to all these things is solely determined by your genetics.

[2nd_chance]

Genetics are hands down THE most important factor AINEC. Sure, anyone can improve their body to some degree, but unless you picked the right parents, you aren't going to develop a bodybuilder's physique. Rich Gaspari is a lousy example of bad genetics. Maybe he didn't have as good a structure as some of the other pros, but anyone who goes on to become an IFBB pro and have the kind of career Rich did has outstanding bodybuilding genetics.

I knew that you'd get my point. But on the other hand, denial is a valid mental technique. Monty will appear soon and educate us.

[ntrllftr]

it's a legitimate question...
for example..I have heard that short guys can squat easier then tall guys? true or false?
I have heard that tall and lanky guys cannot put on the muscle as easily as a tall/broader kind of guy could..
any truth to this at all?

It's all relative. I'm "short" but my squat sucks compared to my friend who is 6'2" BUT my squat is better than some other people my height and not so good compared to people my same height. No definitive answer IMO. As for the muscle building... The same thing. I have trained people in the past who were "tall" and packed on the muscle just as well as others who were shorter. In my conclusion, I would say it is false due to my personal experiences.

[latebloomingmom]

It's all relative. I'm "short" but my squat sucks compared to my friend who is 6'2" BUT my squat is better than some other people my height and not so good compared to people my same height. No definitive answer IMO. As for the muscle building... The same thing. I have trained people in the past who were "tall" and packed on the muscle just as well as others who were shorter. In my conclusion, I would say it is false due to my personal experiences.

thank you Carl..now see if I stay in the misc section
how am I gonna learn?

[Getsum]

Anybody bringing up hard work, discipline, attention to diet, or whatever is completely missing the point. All that stuff is a given. That's like saying that you have to lift weights to look like a bodybuilder. No **** Sherlock. Your body's response to all these things is solely determined by your genetics.

Yeah, this is a really good topic man because it's got me thinking about what makes a champion.

I'd like to clarify my own position in that these competitors do indeed have the complete package, including superior genetics.

[OutOfStep]

I knew that you'd get my point. But on the other hand, denial is a valid mental technique.

You're right about denial. Personally, I'm not interested in pretending I'm good at something when it is quite clear that I'm not. Lifting was the first hobby or activity that I took an interest in as a teen that I seemed to have any kind of natural ability for. Most everything else I had taken an interest in I was either average or I sucked at it. Even doing most everything wrong, my body responded pretty well. Better than most of my peers. I decided to stick with it. I'll never be a national level competitor or anything, but that's fine with me.