Rate my Keto Diet, reps given

[Ripsaw3689]

Hows this for a keto diet? Im currently 185 lbs 5'11" not quite sure of bf.

Meal 1:
2 scrammbled eggs w/ cheese
3 breakfast sausage links

Meal 2:
Natty PB and celery

Meal 3:
Chicken breast
Spinnach salad w/ caesar dressing and cheese

Meal 4:
1/2 chicken breast with cheese

Meal 5:
Spinnach salad, green peppers, cheese, cucumbers w/ caesar dressing

meal 6:
Spoonful of natty PB

[chimponarope]

Whats the totals come out as?

Looks good so far though, what are you doing for postworkout?

You might need a little more veg too.

[Ripsaw3689]

i got 2 scoops whey for PWO. and i havent had time to calc the totals yet

[chimponarope]

Try 1.5 scoops of whey with 15g of dextrose PWO.

Try putting it into fitday.com if you're short on time.

[haiz69]

Looks pretty good. Watch out for the PB though. Every 2 TBS. has 4 net carbs. Just something to think about if you are taking a lot of them in.

[Ripsaw3689]

fitday shows i got too many carbs, not enough fat or protein according to Man2kx's calculator.

Cals 2200
fat 154
carbs 54
protein 152


The calculator gave me:

Cals 2282
fat 165
carbs 29
protein 171

[ABaby]

Nvm!

[Ripsaw3689]

what should i add and take out so i can get these totals?

[Iceman85]

what should i add and take out so i can get these totals?

Are you subtracting out the fiber that you get from the celery, spinach, etc.? Subtract out the dietary fiber from the total carbs in each food to get the net carbs which is what you care about.

[Iceman85]

what should i add and take out so i can get these totals?

Just something to suggest...

I would take out the cheese from your 2 salads and drizzle a tbsp of olive oil on your salad instead. Depending on your which olive oil you get 1 tbsp contains 14-18g of good fat (0 carbs, 0 protein)...

To get your protein up I would suggest tuna. Each small can has about 35-40g in it and not so many calories (~150). Even drizzle some more olive oil or fish oil on the tuna to up your fat levels. If you get the light olive oil, you will barely even know its on the tuna. Perhaps (Tuna&Olive/Fish oil) instead of the natty PB in meal 6. Learn to love the tuna!

Like Man2kx's calculator suggests, you want to try to spread out your fat/protein/carbs in each meal. Try to do that.

[Ripsaw3689]

i think im gonna switch the peanut butter with cream cheese with the celery. Has 3 times less carbs and plenty of fat

and i got my values all right according to the calculator now with the olive oil and im gonna have a casein shake before bed cause it just got here

oh and my carbs are fine, the fitday calculator says spinach has 24 carbs in it so thats wrong

[Eileen]

When you are using fitday, either manually enter your vegetables and high-fibre foods, with the fibre already subtracted, or just concentrate on fat and protein and let the carbs take care of themselves.

Spinach is like celery, as much fibre as carbs, so you should be able to eat tons of it. I bought a bag of mixed green salad this morning, which lists 1.4g carbs per 100g, and 1.3g fibre. So you could eat a whole kilo of it for only 1g of net carbs.

[Yo Daddy]

A few suggestions that I would add:

1.) Do not use whey. Whey glycolyzes at an alarming 54% rate. What's this mean? It is converted to glucose within the blood stream and can definitely prevent you from getting into ketosis and will kick you out of it.

2.) Use efa's via avocados, anpb, flax/hemp oil, udo's, etc. to slow down the digestion of carbs. I recommend including these in every meal. Remember, the quality of what goes in impacts the quality of results.

3.) I would not be concerned with pre/post-w/o nutrition considering that dextrose will boot you out of ketosis in a hurry and the whole concept of keto diet is to deplete glycogen stores in the muscles bellies and then pull from fat stores. If you continually restore these glycogen stores you put yourself into a holding pattern instead of dipping into fat stores.

4.) I can't comment too much beyond this b/c there aren't any macro/cal breakdowns for each meal/food. I would recommend 15 cals/lbs. - 5-10% ti start. Macro breakdown is at least 1 gram of protein per body weight and less than 20g carbs/day with balance from clean fats.

Just my thoughts. Feel free to comment.

[Eileen]

That's kind of the point of using whey, it is absorbed so quickly that if you take it post workout when the muscles are in urgent need of protein for repair, it won't affect ketosis. Same with the dextrose in a PWO shake, you only use enough to provoke a brief insulin spike (to drive the protein into your muscles), but not enough to break ketosis. Your normal PWO shake is not designed to replinish glycogen, just provide enough protein for muscle repair.

Definitely eat the best quality food and fat you can manage. Keto is not an excuse for eating junk.

[Yo Daddy]

That's kind of the point of using whey, it is absorbed so quickly that if you take it post workout when the muscles are in urgent need of protein for repair, it won't affect ketosis. Same with the dextrose in a PWO shake, you only use enough to provoke a brief insulin spike (to drive the protein into your muscles), but not enough to break ketosis. Your normal PWO shake is not designed to replinish glycogen, just provide enough protein for muscle repair.

The "urgency" of the muscles at the point of post-workout doesn't effect the liver's response to the carb/whey you're taking in. Before the dextrose and whey get into the muscles, it goes through the liver/blood stream which is where your insulin levels are determined. Muscles respond secondarily to these situations. So, yes, the glycolization of whey and the dextrose do impact ketosis. It is impossible for your body to spike the insulin level and stay into ketosis. These things are mutally exclusive; not to mention there is virtually no scientific evidence to back up the need for a post-workout shake, let alone one that includes high gi carbs esp. in a ketogenic (non-carbohydrate) diet. Even a brief insulin spike will kick you out of ketosis.

Secondly, under the commonly accepted theory of "carb shuttling" of protein into your muscles, how could the very glucose shuttling the protein into your muscles not get stored there as well? The following scientific studies delve into this very issue.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

Lastly, I would recommend looking more deeply into the scientific studies regarding post-workout nutrition (i.e. the very need for a "post-workout" specific shake, etc.) as well as the digestive/cardiovascular and muscular workings. Remember, the body is pulling from nutritional sources that have been taking upwards of 3 hours (to 14 hours) to digest, so post-workout nutrition is almost like the idea of post-workout warm up. If you haven't prepared for it in advance, you've kind of missed the boat.

Just a few thoughts.

[chimponarope]

Thanks for proving that carbs are best for getting the protein there.

Now lets consider the amounts we suggest. 15g of dextrose. Its hardly going to refill a pair of hard trained legs is it? Any glycogen storage would be minute at best.

Have you tried the dextrose postworkout? I have, my recovery is infinitely better and I for one would sacrifice any temporary loss of ketosis (no more than an hour) for the enhanced recovery.

[Yo Daddy]

Thanks for proving that carbs are best for getting the protein there.

Now lets consider the amounts we suggest. 15g of dextrose. Its hardly going to refill a pair of hard trained legs is it? Any glycogen storage would be minute at best.

Have you tried the dextrose postworkout? I have, my recovery is infinitely better and I for one would sacrifice any temporary loss of ketosis (no more than an hour) for the enhanced recovery.

If you check those articles out, the results were greater glycogen recovery with carb/protein not greater muscular recooperation or repair. These things are greatly different. Analogously, its the difference between fixing the engine/body of a car vs. filling the gas tank up. This only fills the tank, but the damage still needs to be dealt with.

Secondly, 15g of dextrose will replenish enough glycogen stores in the muscle bellies to work against what you're doing during a depletion workout. I'm not saying you can't use it, I'm saying if you do then you're constantly putting back what you're trying to take out - muscle glycogen. Why do you want this on a keto? To start dipping heavily into the fat stores. (If you're looking to accomplish this and still perform "well" in the gym, maybe a TKD using insulin is what you're trying to accomplish. I'm speaking under the context of CKD.)

Additionally, if you're only getting 6 days of keto before a refeed, to ensure higher leptin levels and prevent drop of metabolism, then why would you kick yourself out of ketosis every day via dextrose? You're spending most of your time just trying to get into deep ketosis and spending no real time there - it seems that on the fat burning side of things you're missing the most critical part of this diet.

I'm not trying to flame on you, or her, so please lay back a little bit with the sarcasm/insults. (i.e. "Thanks for proving...") If there's a question/concern about what I'm saying, and you think there's something genuinely wrong - I'm totally down with discussing and talking about it. I've been wrong before and I'm sure I will be again. In the context of keto's though, I've been using them for 8 years or so and I'm just sharing from the knowledge/experience from there.

Keep learning and lifting.