The issue was not just the family separation policy. It was also the government losing track of the kids after the separation. The aclu lawsuit is as much about incompetence as anything else. The strongest cases are ones where families applying for asylum at the port of entry, completely legally, but were still separated indefinitely. Other cases are regarding the cruelty of the child being an infant under 2, damages for inadequate facilities and unqualified child care, damages for failing to reunite families after being ordered by the courts. The US probably won’t win these cases and cannot afford to litigate the hundreds of them.
That said, the cheaper option isn't always the best option. It might be cheaper in the short term, but by "settling" you create a giant incentive for even more people to come here illegally to exploit our unmitigated stupidity.
Every person in the US has a right to due process. The standard in the Constitution is "person". So this includes everyone: citizens, visitors on vacation, temporary workers, and also all immigrants, legal or illegal.
The standard for asylum is put feet on US soil and say "asylum". You can argue that it's a bad standard and should be changed, but thems the standards.
If you put feet on US soil and say "asylum", you are entitled to due process regarding your asylum claim under federal law and international agreement. If we give you due process and say "your asylum claim is bullsh*t" and send you home, when you come back under the same claim, then that's illegal.
There can definitely be a discussion about whether the standards are sh*tty, but thems the standards, and so it's legal.
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Thread: $450,000?
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11-01-2021, 07:43 AM #31"it's likely one of us will have to spend some days alone"
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11-01-2021, 08:20 AM #32
Well, I wasn't saying anything about any of the above, but rather suggesting the "cheaper" option of settling isn't really the cheaper option in the long run. It creates huge incentives for people to come here. We can discuss all the nuances of US law and the process for seeking asylum, but the reality is these things will be lost on those wanting to come here. They simply see Americans giving border crossers big money. Whether they would win in court or not is speculation, but settling definitely sends the wrong message.
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
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11-01-2021, 09:01 AM #33
Losing cases for even larger sums of money won’t be much of a deterrent either. I doubt Biden’s justice department really wants to defend President Trump’s no tolerance policy but perhaps they will. I think they will end up having as much success as Sheriff Joe did, who ended up costing the taxpayers of Arizona 100+ million dollars.
And the fact that this has been mentioned as even being a consideration, with the nuance of class action lawsuits and how they work being lost on the average voter, will be an albatross around the necks of every Democrat running next year. The GOP campaign ads practically write themselves."it's likely one of us will have to spend some days alone"
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11-01-2021, 09:09 AM #34
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11-01-2021, 10:39 AM #35
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11-01-2021, 11:07 AM #36
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11-01-2021, 11:12 AM #37Air Force Veteran 1976 - 1999 - Cannabis Enthusiast since the 1960's
Retired at 40 Crew - Social distancing expert - Living the Dream
I use the gender neutral pronouns "Fukker/Fukkers" a lot.
****** I don't always agree with the memes I post ******
I tell it like it is, if you want smoke blown up your ass or something sugar coated. I suggest you get a Hooker and a powdered donut.
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11-01-2021, 11:37 AM #38
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11-01-2021, 11:42 AM #39
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11-01-2021, 11:43 AM #40Air Force Veteran 1976 - 1999 - Cannabis Enthusiast since the 1960's
Retired at 40 Crew - Social distancing expert - Living the Dream
I use the gender neutral pronouns "Fukker/Fukkers" a lot.
****** I don't always agree with the memes I post ******
I tell it like it is, if you want smoke blown up your ass or something sugar coated. I suggest you get a Hooker and a powdered donut.
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11-01-2021, 11:54 AM #41
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11-01-2021, 11:58 AM #42
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11-01-2021, 12:57 PM #43
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11-01-2021, 01:53 PM #44
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11-01-2021, 02:06 PM #45
Was hoping the Libs would have grown the F up during the last administration. During the Obama years the conservatives were well mannered even though they were furious. The 4 years post Obama it was nothing but Trump, Trump Trump. Unfortunately that was when the gloves came off against a President and I don't think we'll go back to the way it was
If you don't get what you want you didn't want it bad enough
Pro Choice
Non Christian
MAGA
2A Advocate
FJB
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11-01-2021, 02:11 PM #46
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11-01-2021, 02:23 PM #47Air Force Veteran 1976 - 1999 - Cannabis Enthusiast since the 1960's
Retired at 40 Crew - Social distancing expert - Living the Dream
I use the gender neutral pronouns "Fukker/Fukkers" a lot.
****** I don't always agree with the memes I post ******
I tell it like it is, if you want smoke blown up your ass or something sugar coated. I suggest you get a Hooker and a powdered donut.
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11-01-2021, 03:11 PM #48
The courts have upheld the CBP can continue to separate the children for the same reasons they have always done, i.e. when they have reason to suspect abuse, human trafficking, no legal guardian, or the parents are wanted for some offense.
They have not endorsed the zero tolerance policy President Trump used where all children are separated from parents.
The aclu lawsuit began just to represent families separated who legally applied for asylum at the ports of entry. It wasn't until other rulings and opinions supported a broader humanitarian issue in the execution of the policy based on the age of the infants or duration of the separation, that those plaintiffs were added to the class action suit as well."it's likely one of us will have to spend some days alone"
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11-01-2021, 04:17 PM #49
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11-01-2021, 04:20 PM #50
This of course assumes that they would lose which is far from a certainty, and, simply handing illegals nearly a million dollars would send a far more dangerous message than fighting it. Seems to be far more costly in the long term.
I don't think it was meant as a joke, but the phrase concisely reflects the sentiment that we no longer have a valid media. They are nothing more than party mouthpieces now. But I get your point, it also seems to be used to taunt the other side which isn't particularly helpful.It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
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11-01-2021, 04:42 PM #51
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11-01-2021, 04:58 PM #52
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11-01-2021, 05:08 PM #53
Due process is a thing. ICE did not have the infrastructure to track the kids they seperated from parents, and knew that when they implimented the policy. Considering that the seperations happened before the validity of asylum claims could be processed, potentially valid refugees were seperated unlawfully from their children. They have a solid case.
I don't think it was meant as a joke, but the phrase concisely reflects the sentiment that we no longer have a valid media. They are nothing more than party mouthpieces now. But I get your point, it also seems to be used to taunt the other side which isn't particularly helpful."it's likely one of us will have to spend some days alone"
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11-01-2021, 05:09 PM #54
its basically just satire at this point.
If you take it seriously or allow it to bug you... its on you a this point lolOutdoors brah is a purely fictitious persona. Any contextual or graphic creation, opinion, or post made by Outdoorsbrah is not a reflection of real life or reality in any manner, expressed nor implied.
*Photoshop / PhotoChop Crew*
*High Test Crew*
*Graphic Design Crew*
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11-01-2021, 05:13 PM #55
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11-01-2021, 06:39 PM #56
It's like Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown to kick it. People disenfranchised, disowned and all but abandoned by the Government (not the country) are not gonna stick their hand out to be bitten by that dog again.
Remember what Ronald Reagan said "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help."Don't put that on me Ricky Bobby, don't you ever put that on me.
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11-01-2021, 06:40 PM #57
I am sure your legal credentials are solid, but you'll forgive me if I don't rely on your assessment regarding the strength of their case, or the appropriateness of such a huge payout. But, my larger point was related to the message it sends. Handing illegals a million dollars on a silver platter without even bothering to fight it is a huge incentive for more to come here.
Many people (correctly IMO) believe the media make it a regular part of their jobs to gaslight their viewers when it comes to political matters. The Lets Go Brandon chant was viewed by many as an hilarious (and obvious) example of this. I am sure you will disagree with this interpretation, but the point is that is that many did interpret it that way, so that is how the media gets involved.It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
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11-01-2021, 06:56 PM #58
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11-01-2021, 07:45 PM #59
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11-01-2021, 08:15 PM #60
To be fair I did complete one year of law school before dropping out. But you are correct, the one sentence you clipped I really can’t say as fact.
Many people (correctly IMO) believe the media make it a regular part of their jobs to gaslight their viewers when it comes to political matters. The Lets Go Brandon chant was viewed by many as an hilarious (and obvious) example of this. I am sure you will disagree with this interpretation, but the point is that is that many did interpret it that way, so that is how the media gets involved."it's likely one of us will have to spend some days alone"
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