AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part VI

[davonj80]

Ok around 4.5 months in (roughly) following the auto regulated push as much weight clean as you can. As of yesterday I hit 135 for 11 on bench so on a calculator I think that's roughly 180 max I think (I haven't found any calculators that go over 10 reps and I'm trying to calc 135 for 11 lol) . At a bodyweight of around 141 so a little weight gain looking a tad bit wider. I didn't test my squat cause I wasn't feeling comfortable with the form so I went down 10% and will work up this month to pass a PR. Before my squat max calculated at roughly 235.

Do you think one would make more progress sticking to this or would something like Lyle's Generic Bulking routine be a transition I could look into in the very near future and make effective gains. Just confused on how long one should be squeezing out the traditional beginner routine.

[nightanole]

Ok around 4.5 months in (roughly) following the auto regulated push as much weight clean as you can. As of yesterday I hit 135 for 11 on bench so on a calculator I think that's roughly 180 max I think (I haven't found any calculators that go over 10 reps and I'm trying to calc 135 for 11 lol) . At a bodyweight of around 141 so a little weight gain looking a tad bit wider. I didn't test my squat cause I wasn't feeling comfortable with the form so I went down 10% and will work up this month to pass a PR. Before my squat max calculated at roughly 235.

Do you think one would make more progress sticking to this or would something like Lyle's Generic Bulking routine be a transition I could look into in the very near future and make effective gains. Just confused on how long one should be squeezing out the traditional beginner routine.

Intermediate routines are 1/2-1/4 as fast as a beginners routine. They are for people who will be putting 250lbs or less to their power lifting total over the next year(vs 500-750lbs for a beginner). Auto regulated should be able to carry you to bw for 10 bench and 1.5x bw for 10 squats at the min, odds are closer to the magic 225 bench and 315 squat depending on how much volume you need and how much time between sessions you need to progress.

Lyles program is good for a 4day a week split
Madcow 5x5 (really 1x5) is the gold standard after a beginner 5x5
powerliftingtowin's free ebook programmingtown is a full auto regulated program

Odds are all 3 need help choosing accessories to make them well rounded, and to help with imbalances that show up along the way.

Here is a 1 rep max chart that goes to 15 reps.

[SmackBang77]

Hi I have a question about increasing weight at the end of a cycle :

Do you have to pass the ''test'' for all exercises to increase the weights, or can you increase the weights for the exercises you succeed at and leave the weight the same for the rest of them ? Sorry if it sounds stupid.

Also, how is ''failing'' a rep defined ? Like if the 12th rep of my last set is a bit cheated, does it still count or does it have to be 100% perfect form ?

Thanks

[nightanole]

Hi I have a question about increasing weight at the end of a cycle :

Do you have to pass the ''test'' for all exercises to increase the weights, or can you increase the weights for the exercises you succeed at and leave the weight the same for the rest of them ? Sorry if it sounds stupid.

Also, how is ''failing'' a rep defined ? Like if the 12th rep of my last set is a bit cheated, does it still count or does it have to be 100% perfect form ?

Thanks

You only bump the exercises you pass, since everyone has muscle imbalances. Ideally the exercises you are good at you will bump less often then the exercises you suck at now.

Failing a rep is form failure. Slow reps and grinders still count. The math behind allpro is if you can add 4 reps to a set, you are 10% stronger and can handle 10% more weight at the starting rep range. If you have a really sloppy 12th rep, well that means that sloppy rep will continue over to next cycle and may lead to injury if its a compromised form. Your only hope on passing a sloppy rep is to get over 10% stronger the next cycle, but considering you didnt get 10% stronger last cycle, what are the odds...

[enr33]

Im ****in ashamed of myself. I've been under so much stress the past week and today was the test day. I got halfway through the workout and then i just broke down in the locker room and started crying like a bish cause i couldnt deal with everything

I just wanna jump off a bridge sometimes when I think about my fitness progress....

Im fukin pissed that I couldnt finish. I know with 110% certainty the excersises I would and wouldnt be able to do and i feel like a weak pos....

[DrakHarr]

Im ****in ashamed of myself. I've been under so much stress the past week and today was the test day. I got halfway through the workout and then i just broke down in the locker room and started crying like a bish cause i couldnt deal with everything

I just wanna jump off a bridge sometimes when I think about my fitness progress....

Im fukin pissed that I couldnt finish. I know with 110% certainty the excersises I would and wouldnt be able to do and i feel like a weak pos....

Bad days happen. Was this cycle 1? You can always do another test day in 2 days instead of your medium/light this week... though it sounds like other stuff might be going on in life that matters more than lifting.

I had a ****ty day today, failed my bicep curls today on heavy day, only 9 reps in. Something similar happened last cycle with week 11. I did the curls before SLDL, so they might still have been fatigued from the row only with OHP between it, is my guess....

[nightanole]

March i was squatting 237lbs for 3 sets of 5, had one of my episodes and had to go back on prednisone for a month, ended up coming out of it at 175lbs for 3 sets of 5. Currently at 8 reps of 205. Life sucks brah, but a bad month in even a 5-10 year career is nothing. Hell candito tweaked his back on training sub max deadlift, that caused him to miss a match, so now he cant complete for the next 8 months, hes out of this years arnold worlds and a few others.

[tarmokaunissaar]

So it it really bad idea to make a running before training and sit ups and rope jump after ?
And like in rest days do push ups, squats,crunches, pull ups and dips in 4 cycle ?
Have done it, but now called one friend with me and dont wanna push him ober the limit.

[OryxOryx]

Is a bit of knees-wobbling-inward during squat just an indication that I'm squatting too heavy, or is it an indication of bad form, or potentially both? If its bad form, how could I work on correcting it?

[nightanole]

So it it really bad idea to make a running before training and sit ups and rope jump after ?
And like in rest days do push ups, squats,crunches, pull ups and dips in 4 cycle ?
Have done it, but now called one friend with me and dont wanna push him ober the limit.

You want everything after the workout, or more than 4 hours before the workout.
I would not do pullups/dips on off days unless they are very easy. Too heavy and it will mess up your bench/row

Is a bit of knees-wobbling-inward during squat just an indication that I'm squatting too heavy, or is it an indication of bad form, or potentially both? If its bad form, how could I work on correcting it?

http://bretcontreras.com/peoples-kne...-inward-squat/

Moral the story, its ok to twitch the knees in a little at the sticking point for better leverage, but They should be out most of the time. And the knees should never "cave in" from the muscles giving out. Advanced lifters can move the knees in on purpose for leverage, they are not compromising into that form.

I would try a few toe angles to see if you can get rid of the cave in. If you have them pointed out too much you lose some hip/glute drive at the bottom, if you dont have enough toe outthen everything binds up before you get get to the bottom, instead of being tight like a woun up spring.

[enr33]

What would my best option be? Do another heavy test day either wednesday or friday?

Or what id like to do is

Do medium and light workouts on wed and fri and bump up weight next week on squat, deadlift, barbell curl, seated calf raises? Those I am beyond certain that I will be able to do at least 12 if not 20 reps in one set and i have perfect form on those exercises. (i may have gone over the designated amount of reps by accident a couple of times lol)

However bench, barbell row, and standing press still need alot more work....

[DrakHarr]

What would my best option be? Do another heavy test day either wednesday or friday?

Or what id like to do is

Do medium and light workouts on wed and fri and bump up weight next week on squat, deadlift, barbell curl, seated calf raises? Those I am beyond certain that I will be able to do at least 12 if not 20 reps in one set and i have perfect form on those exercises. (i may have gone over the designated amount of reps by accident a couple of times lol)

However bench, barbell row, and standing press still need alot more work....

If you failed monday, you should do the test day thursday. I wouldn't bump weights until you do the test day, but I don't know how easy whatever the weight is is for you (I'm not you). Going over the reps is going to kill you on this program, don't do it. It will fatigue you and could cause false fails on week 12.

[nightanole]

Or just give up, take 2 days off, and do a 10 rep test day like when you started the program.

[enr33]

If you failed monday, you should do the test day thursday. I wouldn't bump weights until you do the test day, but I don't know how easy whatever the weight is is for you (I'm not you). Going over the reps is going to kill you on this program, don't do it. It will fatigue you and could cause false fails on week 12.

I cant go thursday im have class in the morning and im out of town the rest of the day. So I have wednesday and friday

Or just give up, take 2 days off, and do a 10 rep test day like when you started the program.

If i do a 10 rep test day is that gonna decide whether or not the weight can be bumped on any of the excersises? Either way, would it be optimal to take tommorow (regular scheduled medium day) off and do a test day friday?

[Jesleyh]

Hi guys,

I'm going be starting All Pro, but had one query. I'm new to gym but before I cycled quite a lot so my legs and calves are preety much developed nicely, it's the upper body that lacks totally

So was wondering would it be advisable to switch out calve raises for upper body related exercise? I don't really need any calves work so I thought I'd benefit with somtehing else, even though I do know not to tinker with the plan but I thought this could be exception maybe.

If so any ideas what to replace it with?

Thanks in advance,
Regards

[nightanole]

I cant go thursday im have class in the morning and im out of town the rest of the day. So I have wednesday and friday



If i do a 10 rep test day is that gonna decide whether or not the weight can be bumped on any of the excersises? Either way, would it be optimal to take tommorow (regular scheduled medium day) off and do a test day friday?

Next week will be 8 rep week. The only rule is 2 days off before a heavy. So pick your new weights you think you can do, take 2 days off, test for 1 set of 10 (with warmups) in the correct lift order, if you get in the set of 10 you are good to go for next week. If you fail to get in 10 reps, yank off about 5lbs per missed rep.

Optimal is now out the window at this point...

[nightanole]

Hi guys,

I'm going be starting All Pro, but had one query. I'm new to gym but before I cycled quite a lot so my legs and calves are preety much developed nicely, it's the upper body that lacks totally

So was wondering would it be advisable to switch out calve raises for upper body related exercise? I don't really need any calves work so I thought I'd benefit with somtehing else, even though I do know not to tinker with the plan but I thought this could be exception maybe.

If so any ideas what to replace it with?

Thanks in advance,
Regards

If your calves are bigger than your neck, dont do calf raises, its a pure cosmetic lift for "team no calves" that cant get big legs with just squats and deads. Ideally you want to have your neck/forearm/calf to be the same thickness.

And im pretty sure squats are gonna kick your arse anyway, so big quads doesnt mean your going to have the core to support them yet

[enr33]

Next week will be 8 rep week. The only rule is 2 days off before a heavy. So pick your new weights you think you can do, take 2 days off, test for 1 set of 10 (with warmups) in the correct lift order, if you get in the set of 10 you are good to go for next week. If you fail to get in 10 reps, yank off about 5lbs per missed rep.

Optimal is now out the window at this point...

-Because of my unusual schedule im gonna have to do it on Friday, which is gonna have been 3 days off. Is that ok?
-what do you mean by Optimal?

[enr33]

Also what the other poster said about calves, my calves are the largest party of my body almost twice as big as my chest srs. Can I substitute calf raises for something thatll make my forearms/wrists/arms bigger. Im super insecure about those 3 body parts of mine cause their so small....

OP do you have any progress pics from when u were on this routine/similar routine?

[nightanole]

-Because of my unusual schedule im gonna have to do it on Friday, which is gonna have been 3 days off. Is that ok?
-what do you mean by Optimal?

It doesnt matter if you take 10 days off for a 10 rep test.
Optimal. You failed test day, you stopped half way through, and odds are missed reps on several of the first lifts. That right there threw off test week, the only hope of saving it might have been to test again in 48 hours. That window has passed. So now id just go with your plan of doing the 10 rep test on friday, and then starting fresh on 8 reps monday.

Also what the other poster said about calves, my calves are the largest party of my body almost twice as big as my chest srs. Can I substitute calf raises for something thatll make my forearms/wrists/arms bigger. Im super insecure about those 3 body parts of mine cause their so small....

OP do you have any progress pics from when u were on this routine/similar routine?

Yea you dont have to do calve raises if they are huge. They are put into the program for the 1/3 of the population that cant grow calves without direct work.

The best arm meat builder i have found is close grip chinups. You want to keep the reps above 10 so odds are you will need some pullups assistance bands for like $20. You could even get a 3 pack so you could do heavy/medium/light.
The 2nd best (and a bench accessory) is hammer grip curls. It will 50/50 split the load among all the brachi and help re enforce the elbow. If you are going to do the hammer grip curl, be dam sure to lock the elbow down to your side, if that sucker flares out when you start getting fatigued, you will put all the load on the elbow joint and say hello to elbow tendinitis.

I dont have any progress pics. I think i put one up when i was at 137lbs after recovering, and then a 1 year progress pic. I guess i could put a 2 year progress pic up after my jan cut, but 7-10lbs isnt going to change much since i dont have a sub 12% pic.

Here is the official thread no one knows about:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=157445363

[kLaves99]

Hi so I am on my 4th cycle and I am currently getting a bit stuck. So For the last 3 weeks or so I have been mucking around on 10 reps and 11 reps and can't seem to finish all of the reps for barbell curls, bench press and sometimes the bent over row. Am i getting burnt out or something from the exercises? Below are my lifts:

p.s don't have squat rack and no spotter for bench press, can't put lots of weight on squats because I can't always lift it up and over my head to start set.
Squat: 43.6
Bench: 48.6
Row: 48.6
Military press: 25
Stiff legged deadlift: 43.6
Barbell curl: 22.5
Calf raises: 30 (just put bar in squat position over shoulders and go to failure)

So what would you recommend to do as i'm really confused as to what to do to further progress.
Additional Info: Have gained weight, not lost, however gaining weight is not my priority as I want to transform and get lean//See my other post on teen section "16 y/o Advice/Help Needed!" for more information regarding the issue.
Any help would be really appreciated!

[nightanole]

Hi so I am on my 4th cycle and I am currently getting a bit stuck. So For the last 3 weeks or so I have been mucking around on 10 reps and 11 reps and can't seem to finish all of the reps for barbell curls, bench press and sometimes the bent over row. Am i getting burnt out or something from the exercises? Below are my lifts:

p.s don't have squat rack and no spotter for bench press, can't put lots of weight on squats because I can't always lift it up and over my head to start set.
Squat: 43.6
Bench: 48.6
Row: 48.6
Military press: 25
Stiff legged deadlift: 43.6
Barbell curl: 22.5
Calf raises: 30 (just put bar in squat position over shoulders and go to failure)

So what would you recommend to do as i'm really confused as to what to do to further progress.
Additional Info: Have gained weight, not lost, however gaining weight is not my priority as I want to transform and get lean//See my other post on teen section "16 y/o Advice/Help Needed!" for more information regarding the issue.
Any help would be really appreciated!

Nothing stands out other than your OHP is a little low. If you are only missing reps on the 2nd set then its a carb problem.
I would switch to front squats vs what you are doing now to get the bar on your back, or switch to zercher squats and some towels.
Im guessing you are working with too high of a RPE and its sucking up too much of your recovery. You might end up failing those lifts so you can catchup next cycle. You are running with none in the tank which is not good.

As for weight gain, you are 16, so no one worth their beans is going to touch that subject. I still stand behind my stance of teens shouldnt drop weight unless they are obese. You are still growing and just eating to maintain weight (aka stay in the same weight class for wrestling each year) is going to back fire big time in the long run if you are still increasing in height.

You want abs increase cardio, dont drop nutrition.

[DrakHarr]

Kind of a crazy past few days. I ate a whole pizza (thin crust) on monday after my workout... and I still lost weight, even though it alone went over my calorie intake. My plateau in weightloss seems to have hit an end for now, I didn't drop any weight at all the past week, then lost three pounds over the past few days... and it isn't water, I can finally start seeing some changes. Think I just finally dropped below the 20% bodyfat threshhold or something. Had a rocking medium day at the gym. I expect to fail bicep curls this cycle, but frankly, they're a bit out of whack anyhow with my other lifts (70 curls versus 75 OHP and 95 BoR). Bench press is definitely still being difficult for me. I'll consider the cycle a success if I pass squats, calf raises, SLDL, Row, and OHP. At least if my bench fails and OHP passes it will feel like progress in that area, since last cycle bench passed and OHP did not. I'm wondering how much more strength gain is really going to be possible in my cut, but I'm not low enough body fat yet to stop cutting.

[OryxOryx]

I wanted to get a general check-in on my progress so far.

28yr old male, never lifted before. I'm "cutting" but I've had some issues controlling my diet occasionally. That said, I've lost a few pounds.

I did 2 cycles of AllPro high volume version (adding 2 reps on med day and 4 reps on light day) then switched to autoreg. Also been doing HIIT with a jumprope 2-3 times a week most weeks (40 secs sprint, 30 secs rest, x15)

Here is how things have gone so far:

Start (June 2015):
Squat: 50
Bench: 110
BOR: 60
OHP: 60
SLDL: 110
Lat Pulldown: 70
Bar Curl: 50
Calf Raise: 155
Skullcrushers: 50

Completed 2 cycles plus a little autoreg, then no lifting for 1.5 months. Restarted September and been going pretty steady since then (just a couple missed days for sickness, etc.). When I restarted September 29th I was at:

Squat: 70
Bench: 111
BOR: 75
OHP: 65
SLDL: 133
Lat Pulldown: 90
Bar Curl: 55
Calf Raise: 160
Skullcrusher: 55

As of today, I'm at:

Squat: 133
Bench: 133
BOR: 94
OHP: 75
SLDL: 199
Lat Pull: 100
Bar Curl: 60
Calf Raise: 185
Skullcrusher: 70


Does this rate of progress seem reasonable? Again, I'm on the autoregulated version now.

[nightanole]

I wanted to get a general check-in on my progress so far.

28yr old male, never lifted before. I'm "cutting" but I've had some issues controlling my diet occasionally. That said, I've lost a few pounds.

I did 2 cycles of AllPro high volume version (adding 2 reps on med day and 4 reps on light day) then switched to autoreg. Also been doing HIIT with a jumprope 2-3 times a week most weeks (40 secs sprint, 30 secs rest, x15)

Here is how things have gone so far:

Start (June 2015):
Squat: 50
Bench: 110
BOR: 60
OHP: 60
SLDL: 110
Lat Pulldown: 70
Bar Curl: 50
Calf Raise: 155
Skullcrushers: 50

Completed 2 cycles plus a little autoreg, then no lifting for 1.5 months. Restarted September and been going pretty steady since then (just a couple missed days for sickness, etc.). When I restarted September 29th I was at:

Squat: 70
Bench: 111
BOR: 75
OHP: 65
SLDL: 133
Lat Pulldown: 90
Bar Curl: 55
Calf Raise: 160
Skullcrusher: 55

As of today, I'm at:

Squat: 133
Bench: 133
BOR: 94
OHP: 75
SLDL: 199
Lat Pull: 100
Bar Curl: 60
Calf Raise: 185
Skullcrusher: 70


Does this rate of progress seem reasonable? Again, I'm on the autoregulated version now.

Everything looks good, but im concerned about your lats. This has happened several times before with other allpro lifters. Your BOR and lat pull is severely lagging behind your bench. Im guessing you cant even do a pullup, yet have almost a 1 plate working weight bench.

The most recommended BOR accessory is doing "hands off between reps" penlay rows with a weight you can only do 1-3 times, you might gain 1 rep a cycle, for you that is probably around bw.
You may also look into a hammer grip assisted chinup for high reps (15-30reps).

You need to get that Row up to 115-125 or you will start to notice some upper back compromises in the SLDL and squat. Look into some videos etc on how to "lock down your chest" with your lats.
If you havent already, switch the lat pulldown to palms facing you grip.
You may also want to start doing some band face pulls.

SO perfect numbers would have your row around 115-125, your squat above your SLDL, and your SLDL having a huge rom where the bar is well below mid shim and you have to stand on a plate form to keep the weights from hitting the floor between reps.

PS: id drop the skullcrushers since that is an assistance for your bench, which is already waaaay over powered. Pick somethings that will bring up your squat and row. Hell high foot farmer carries/walks might help both lifts if it is indeed an upper back/core weakness problem that is holding them back..

[enr33]

Whats ur favorite supplement brand brahs?

Im headed back to town tommorow to pick up some whey protein and creatine monohydrate. Optimum Nutrition is go to.

btw im really thinking about getting ON Casein and/or BCAA but i cant decide......................

[DrakHarr]

Whats ur favorite supplement brand brahs?

Im headed back to town tommorow to pick up some whey protein and creatine monohydrate. Optimum Nutrition is go to.

btw im really thinking about getting ON Casein and/or BCAA but i cant decide......................

Meh, I don't use anything. I take vitamin C because it's cold season, and fish oil, otherwise nothing at all.

[nightanole]

Whats ur favorite supplement brand brahs?

Im headed back to town tommorow to pick up some whey protein and creatine monohydrate. Optimum Nutrition is go to.

btw im really thinking about getting ON Casein and/or BCAA but i cant decide......................

optimum
dymatize elite
truenutrition
myprotein

creatine works the first year
casein is a waste if its more than regular protein
You could also sup with 6-10g of Essential Amino Acid blend.
BCAA's only help if your diet is really really bad.

[kalobandor]

Hi Guys, whenever I tried to do deep squat my butt caves in and I squat with butt wink. My form is acceptable till just below parallel knees. In addition whenever i tried to SLDL my back rounds up whereas in traditional deadlift my form is ok as I can bend my knees. I think both these problems happen cause I have a really tight hamstring and inflexible hip. I am already doing some stretching to solve this but it seems it will take time to solve these problems. My question is what should I do before I solve it? Should I continue with my below parallel squat and traditional deadlift instead of deep squat and SLDL respectively?

[nightanole]

Hi Guys, whenever I tried to do deep squat my butt caves in and I squat with butt wink. My form is acceptable till just below parallel knees. In addition whenever i tried to SLDL my back rounds up whereas in traditional deadlift my form is ok as I can bend my knees. I think both these problems happen cause I have a really tight hamstring and inflexible hip. I am already doing some stretching to solve this but it seems it will take time to solve these problems. My question is what should I do before I solve it? Should I continue with my below parallel squat and traditional deadlift instead of deep squat and SLDL respectively?

If you do the SLDL correctly it will fix the squat. Most cant get past the knees first cycle without rounding the back. Once your back goes flat come back up.
For squats adjust your stopping point by widening the stance till you stop at "point butt wink". As the SLDL does its job you can start bringing in your squat stance.