How Many Olympia titles should Dorian Yates have won?

[Justin-27]

Phils genetics while great hurt him with width, Kai was not conditioned enough.

Its a combination of everything sure, but you seem to stress that muscle shape and seperation and so forth are not as important was what a person can "manipulate" ie conditioning and size.

Thats essentially why Haney won 8 straight, genetics. He wasn't always the most conditioned (Labrada, Gaspari) or the biggest (Christian and Strydom) btu he had the best genetics overall along with both good size and conditioning.

At the end of the day someone who has good muscle shape and genetic structure will be a guy that is bigger and sometimes even more conditioned most of the time that's why guys like Wolf and Ruhl while impressive to crowds will likely never win (or haven't in the past).

This.


Manipulating? WTF is that kid talking about?
No one fuking cares about what you did, or the road you took, or how far you've come.

It's mofukn BODYBUILDING. Shape, symmetry, size, conditioning, ALL big from genetics.

Judge 1: "Oh hai, you win cuz you had ****ty genetix and gained sum musklez."

Not.


Happening.

[Zeneth]

Dorian won at least 2 Olympias pretty much completely missing his left bicep.

[lovebbing]

This.


Manipulating? WTF is that kid talking about?
No one fuking cares about what you did, or the road you took, or how far you've come.

It's mofukn BODYBUILDING. Shape, symmetry, size, conditioning, ALL big from genetics.

Judge 1: "Oh hai, you win cuz you had ****ty genetix and gained sum musklez."

Not.


Happening.

another moron.

ARE YOU GUYS RETARDED??

my point is is that your body mass and body fat are THINGS YOU CAN CHANGE. MUSCLE BELLYS AND INSERTIONS ARE NOT CHANGEABLE. AGREE??

so therefore, in my opinion, I believe aesthetics shouldnt rlly be taken into account as heavily as size or condition is, which was my reply to someones post earlier.

then you two dumbasses completely misinterpreted what I said and then tried to act like im the stupid one.

gawd you guys are stupid.

im not even going to waste anymore time in this thread.

[lovebbing]

Phils genetics while great hurt him with width, Kai was not conditioned enough.

Its a combination of everything sure, but you seem to stress that muscle shape and seperation and so forth are not as important was what a person can "manipulate" ie conditioning and size.

Thats essentially why Haney won 8 straight, genetics. He wasn't always the most conditioned (Labrada, Gaspari) or the biggest (Christian and Strydom) btu he had the best genetics overall along with both good size and conditioning.

At the end of the day someone who has good muscle shape and genetic structure will be a guy that is bigger and sometimes even more conditioned most of the time that's why guys like Wolf and Ruhl while impressive to crowds will likely never win (or haven't in the past).

if you told lee haney that his 8 olympias were a result of his genetics im sure hed have something to add to that...

obviously he did something right..... he wasnt just born with the physique of an 8 time mr olympia, he obviously had to gain the SIZE that he did over time.... he didnt win for any other reason. every mr olympia so far who has won was the biggest guy on stage, given they werent horribly unsymmetrical or disproportionate, or had ****ty conditioning.

i know genetics play a big role in a bodybuilders success, as they do in any sport, but that doesnt even have anything to do with my first post i made anyway.

[Justin-27]

another moron.

ARE YOU GUYS RETARDED??

my point is is that your body mass and body fat are THINGS YOU CAN CHANGE. MUSCLE BELLYS AND INSERTIONS ARE NOT CHANGEABLE. AGREE??

so therefore, in my opinion, I believe aesthetics shouldnt rlly be taken into account as heavily as size or condition is, which was my reply to someones post earlier.

then you two dumbasses completely misinterpreted what I said and then tried to act like im the stupid one.

gawd you guys are stupid.

im not even going to waste anymore time in this thread.

Body mass and body fat are things you can change, yes. And are they judged on that? Of course.

Muscle belly shape and insertion are also judged, so you sir are a FUKING IDIOT.

Watch the tone ya little 18 yr old skinny b!tch.

You dont' know sh!t, and we all can tell by your azz poor posts.
So do us all a favor and shut your fuking mouth.

[mikieson]

Body mass and body fat are things you can change, yes. And are they judged on that? Of course.

Muscle belly shape and insertion are also judged, so you sir are a FUKING IDIOT.

Watch the tone ya little 18 yr old skinny b!tch.

You dont' know sh!t, and we all can tell by your azz poor posts.
So do us all a favor and shut your fuking mouth.

WOW...this thread is failing on a grand scale. Honestly I dont even remember what its about? The thing I hate about this website is they allow such hostility and language to be said. Its one thing to disagree with someone but a whole other level to drop Fbombs and other such names..calling people out threatening and such..

We all say things that may not go over well, but come on people...We still have something in common....lifting weights. Now shut the F%^KINFU%$^UP YOU SORRY MOTHRF%^KINSONSaBIT%^SS!!..

[dawsondvm]

WOW...this thread is failing on a grand scale. Honestly I dont even remember what its about?

The discussion was about how Yates>>>>Shawn "the Hobbit" Ray.

[mikieson]

The discussion was about how Yates>>>>Shawn "the Hobbit" Ray.

Thats right..yea, Ray should have a win no doubt..Yates was good for about 3 wins though...imo.

[DylanDetrick]

I know some fitness models with great shape, balance, seperation and detail. Would you like them to represent bodybuilding for you? I also know tons of skinny *******s with shape, balance.... all the stuff you mentioned. But maintaining those features with a BIGGER body is what creates the challenge and the TOP bodybuilder.

Not saying size is EVERYTHING but you are underestimating the influence/advantage size had for Dorian over Shawn.

The way I see it is Shawn has lots of size, plus he has everything else(shape, condition, balance, separation, detail, etc.) and Dorian has lots of size and condition, but poor shape, and separation in some areas, as well as being out-balanced by Shawn(and sometimes out-conditioned).

Once again, if size and condition were the only criteria, then I would have no problem with him being Mr. Olympia.

But since he lacks in other areas and isn't the most complete Bodybuilder, as well as the fact that he was competing in arguably the deepest era of competition in Bodybuilding history as far as depth of the competitors goes, I don't think he should have been Mr. Olympia.

I think the judges were just so "overwhelmed" with Dorian's sheer size and condition that they were willing to overlook Dorian's shortcomings and give him the title.

My 2 cents.

[DylanDetrick]

Dorian won at least 2 Olympias pretty much completely missing his left bicep.

4 to be exact.

[DylanDetrick]

another moron.

ARE YOU GUYS RETARDED??

my point is is that your body mass and body fat are THINGS YOU CAN CHANGE. MUSCLE BELLYS AND INSERTIONS ARE NOT CHANGEABLE. AGREE??

so therefore, in my opinion, I believe aesthetics shouldnt rlly be taken into account as heavily as size or condition is, which was my reply to someones post earlier.

then you two dumbasses completely misinterpreted what I said and then tried to act like im the stupid one.

gawd you guys are stupid.

im not even going to waste anymore time in this thread.

Bodybuilding is balance.

The man who wins should be the one with the complete package: size, shape, balance, conditioning, separation, and detail.

[AnarkyLost]

Wut.....

[DylanDetrick]

if you told lee haney that his 8 olympias were a result of his genetics im sure hed have something to add to that...

obviously he did something right..... he wasnt just born with the physique of an 8 time mr olympia, he obviously had to gain the SIZE that he did over time.... he didnt win for any other reason. every mr olympia so far who has won was the biggest guy on stage, given they werent horribly unsymmetrical or disproportionate, or had ****ty conditioning.

i know genetics play a big role in a bodybuilders success, as they do in any sport, but that doesnt even have anything to do with my first post i made anyway.

Frank Zane ring a bell?

Or how about Chris Dickerson, Franco Columbu , or Samir Bannout?

All were FAR from the biggest guy when they won(all weighing under 200lbs.), but won because the judges chose the best OVERALL physique onstage that day.

Lee Haney placed third at the '83 Olympia behind Samir and Mohammed Makkawy, two significantly smaller guys than he was, but they beat him because they were more complete.(The good old days)

If Shawn Ray competed in that era, he would have won 10 Olympia's.

[DylanDetrick]

WOW...this thread is failing on a grand scale. Honestly I dont even remember what its about? The thing I hate about this website is they allow such hostility and language to be said. Its one thing to disagree with someone but a whole other level to drop Fbombs and other such names..calling people out threatening and such..

We all say things that may not go over well, but come on people...We still have something in common....lifting weights. Now shut the F%^KINFU%$^UP YOU SORRY MOTHRF%^KINSONSaBIT%^SS!!..

x1000000000000000000000000000

[Justin-27]

Shawn is destroying both of them, especially Dillet despite being 7-8 inches shorter and 80lbs. lighter! It seems as if size wasn't as much of a hindrance as people think!

"until the below stands next to him."

Are you saying that Dorian's more complete than Shawn?

That's laughable, and besides that pics not even from the same show as the pic with Shawn, Kevin, and Dillet.

Yes captain genius, Dorian WAS more complete than Ray, *and* dwarfed him.

Great, I agreed with you on Dillett, who had one of the most random, piss poor put together physiques.

BB'ing is about balance, I have friends that were ACTUALLY AT the Chicago Olympia and even told me "you cant believe how much better Yates looked in person than in photos. He simply DOMINATED the others on stage."

Guess what? That is what happened, that is the reality, that is the truth, and you ARE wrong.

He won 6,. SIXXXXX.

Yates was dominating when you were still the sperm in your dads weener. So shut your mouth on the subject teeny bopper.

[lovebbing]

Body mass and body fat are things you can change, yes. And are they judged on that? Of course.

Muscle belly shape and insertion are also judged, so you sir are a FUKING IDIOT.

Watch the tone ya little 18 yr old skinny b!tch.

You dont' know sh!t, and we all can tell by your azz poor posts.
So do us all a favor and shut your fuking mouth.

lol then why did dex come in third at the O and fourth at the arnold? both places after Branch??

u mad? I bet turning 30 soon RLLY makes you feel YOUNG dont it?

[BlueliQuid]

lol then why did dex come in third at the O and fourth at the arnold? both places after Branch??

u mad? I bet turning 30 soon RLLY makes you feel YOUNG dont it?

Dex was also Mr.Olympia. lol

[lovebbing]

Dex was also Mr.Olympia. lol

because branch, kai, and victor werent there and jay was horribly off.....

[be4st]

The way I see it is Shawn has lots of size, plus he has everything else(shape, condition, balance, separation, detail, etc.) and Dorian has lots of size and condition, but poor shape, and separation in some areas, as well as being out-balanced by Shawn(and sometimes out-conditioned).

Once again, if size and condition were the only criteria, then I would have no problem with him being Mr. Olympia.

But since he lacks in other areas and isn't the most complete Bodybuilder, as well as the fact that he was competing in arguably the deepest era of competition in Bodybuilding history as far as depth of the competitors goes, I don't think he should have been Mr. Olympia.

I think the judges were just so "overwhelmed" with Dorian's sheer size and condition that they were willing to overlook Dorian's shortcomings and give him the title.

My 2 cents.

Damn dude..... When did I ever say size and condition were the only criteria? Did I not say the others were important as well? Size means TONS though and I don't want to repeat my previous posts but there is a reason why EVERY SINGLE TOP BODYBUILDER strives to come into the competition BIGGER and MORE CONDITIONED.

To be honest, maintaining the lines, the seperation, the small waist, the definition... all that is easy if you're not packing on the impressive size on top of it. I can speak from my own experience that I was certainly more ripped/had a smaller waist/etc. when I was 155 pounds. But now I'm about 30 pounds heavier, and while sacrificing a little bit of those other features I would certainly say my current physique beats my old. The point of bodybuilding is to maintain those other features WHILE adding the size and condition, hence bodyBUILDING.

Let me ask you. What are you training for?
Let me guess. You're training for size?

[be4st]

Frank Zane ring a bell?

Or how about Chris Dickerson, Franco Columbu , or Samir Bannout?

All were FAR from the biggest guy when they won(all weighing under 200lbs.), but won because the judges chose the best OVERALL physique onstage that day.

Lee Haney placed third at the '83 Olympia behind Samir and Mohammed Makkawy, two significantly smaller guys than he was, but they beat him because they were more complete.(The good old days)

If Shawn Ray competed in that era, he would have won 10 Olympia's.

I'm sorry dude. But no one in that era SIGNIFICANTLY dwarfed another competitor. Dorian Yates standing next to Shawn Ray is what you call being significantly dwarfed.

[LoliPops]

How Many Olympia titles should Dorian Yates have won?

0times 40ppl 12.20%

[abdus]

If Shawn Ray competed in that era, he would have won 10 Olympia's.

just a shame he didn't compete then

[lancs_hotpot]

Frank Zane ring a bell?

Or how about Chris Dickerson, Franco Columbu , or Samir Bannout?

All were FAR from the biggest guy when they won(all weighing under 200lbs.), but won because the judges chose the best OVERALL physique onstage that day.

Lee Haney placed third at the '83 Olympia behind Samir and Mohammed Makkawy, two significantly smaller guys than he was, but they beat him because they were more complete.(The good old days)

If Shawn Ray competed in that era, he would have won 10 Olympia's.

Times change sonny jim. That may have bee the case in the 80s but in the 90s and naughties mass rises above all.

[DylanDetrick]

Yes captain genius, Dorian WAS more complete than Ray, *and* dwarfed him.

Great, I agreed with you on Dillett, who had one of the most random, piss poor put together physiques.

BB'ing is about balance, I have friends that were ACTUALLY AT the Chicago Olympia and even told me "you cant believe how much better Yates looked in person than in photos. He simply DOMINATED the others on stage."

Guess what? That is what happened, that is the reality, that is the truth, and you ARE wrong.

He won 6,. SIXXXXX.

Yates was dominating when you were still the sperm in your dads weener. So shut your mouth on the subject teeny bopper.

How was Dorian more complete?

[DylanDetrick]

Times change sonny jim. That may have bee the case in the 80s but in the 90s and naughties mass rises above all.

Yes, that's why I said those were "the good old days" and "If Shawn Ray competed in that era, he would have won 10 Olympia's."

Ever since '92, shape has taken a backseat to size.

[lancs_hotpot]

Yes, that's why I said those were "the good old days" and "If Shawn Ray competed in that era, he would have won 10 Olympia's."

Ever since '92, shape has taken a backseat to size.

Even if thats the case (which i dont think it is) it makes your arguments irrelevant.

How was Dorian more complete?

He had all the development shawn had but more of it and bigger.

[DylanDetrick]

I'm sorry dude. But no one in that era SIGNIFICANTLY dwarfed another competitor. Dorian Yates standing next to Shawn Ray is what you call being significantly dwarfed.

Bertil Fox was significantly bigger than Samir and Makkawy and alot of the other guys but wasn't as complete and never won the title.

[lancs_hotpot]

Bertil Fox was significantly bigger than Samir and Makkawy and alot of the other guys but wasn't as complete and never won the title.

Again thats years ago, different times, different standards, doesnt mean sh*t in your argument.

[DylanDetrick]

Damn dude..... When did I ever say size and condition were the only criteria? Did I not say the others were important as well? Size means TONS though and I don't want to repeat my previous posts but there is a reason why EVERY SINGLE TOP BODYBUILDER strives to come into the competition BIGGER and MORE CONDITIONED.

To be honest, maintaining the lines, the seperation, the small waist, the definition... all that is easy if you're not packing on the impressive size on top of it. I can speak from my own experience that I was certainly more ripped/had a smaller waist/etc. when I was 155 pounds. But now I'm about 30 pounds heavier, and while sacrificing a little bit of those other features I would certainly say my current physique beats my old. The point of bodybuilding is to maintain those other features WHILE adding the size and condition, hence bodyBUILDING.

Let me ask you. What are you training for?
Let me guess. You're training for size?

I'm training for more than simply size but overall balance as well as detail.

I think you are saying that there should be a greater emphasis on size more than other aspects of your physique?

If so, I disagree.

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.

[caliguy2010]

should have won 7