Let's talk - Natural Mr Olympia gives advice

[wilk.daniel]

I live in Lisle and workout at Xsport in Downers Grove, I didn't know you lived so close to me (I actually work at world gym in westmont and use to work at the one in willowbrook). I am looking to compete in a natural comp fall of 09. I was wondering as the time approaches maybe late spring/summer and then precontest I could stop by and you could give me advice on my weak points in body/ diet. (fyi my bodyspace pictures are really old pictures).

[Natural_O]

Hey John I had a question about the routine you gave me. I was wondering would it be okay if I split it up into am/pm? so that Im doing the lower body in the am and upper in the pm?

For example
mon/wed/fri
AM
Squats
Leg Curls
Calf Raises
Sit-ups
Leg Raises

PM
Bench Press
Lat Pulldowns had to switch to rows workout at home no machines
Shoulder Press
Tricep Pushdown had to switch to skull crushers
Bicep Curls

tues/thurs/sat/sun
30 mins cardio*

* currently 220 with 25% bf with a goal of getting down to 10%

or do you feel that its best to do it as is ?

If you were going to split it up, you should do half the routine on one day and the other half on the next day then take a day off and repeat the routine. Don't do a double split routine, that is a VERY advanced routine and it's not the best for building size because you don't have enough time to recuperate. Also, I wouldn't suggest doing cardio every day on the days you are not training. Get your diet under control and cut back on the simple sugars while increasing your protein intake. Don't rely on doing a lot of cardio to lose fat.

[Natural_O]

john,

saw you at the natural o, didn't have a chance to say hey...
but I have to say...Phillip Ricardo Jr is one of the most amazing natural bbers out there, having him on the radio show would be SWEEET

I wish you would have said hi! I agree with you, Phillip Ricardo is an awesome natural bodybuilder and a true professional. I will definitely have him on the show and I hope to do an interview with him this week. Phillip will be going to Iraq again in March (his third time!) so he really is a true American hero in addition to being a fantastic natural bodybuilder.

[Natural_O]

I live in Lisle and workout at Xsport in Downers Grove, I didn't know you lived so close to me (I actually work at world gym in westmont and use to work at the one in willowbrook). I am looking to compete in a natural comp fall of 09. I was wondering as the time approaches maybe late spring/summer and then precontest I could stop by and you could give me advice on my weak points in body/ diet. (fyi my bodyspace pictures are really old pictures).

Absolutely, contact me through my website at www.naturalolympia.com and I would be happy to help you out. You should consider doing my Natural North America contest on the first weekend of August in 2009. It's a great show and it gets lots of magazine coverage (this year's show is featured in the current issue of IronMan Magazine).

[Natural_O]

I was inducted into the Natural Bodybuilding Hall of Fame this weekend in San Francisco at the Natural Olympia contest. I was very honored to be chosen for this honor for the first Hall of Fame for the INBA organization. Here I am with the President of the INBA, Denny Kakos.

[NaturalLoco]

I was inducted into the Natural Bodybuilding Hall of Fame this weekend in San Francisco at the Natural Olympia contest. I was very honored to be chosen for this honor for the first Hall of Fame for the INBA organization. Here I am with the President of the INBA, Denny Kakos.

Congratulations! You are an inspiration to us all!

[Quelly]

I wish you would have said hi! I agree with you, Phillip Ricardo is an awesome natural bodybuilder and a true professional. I will definitely have him on the show and I hope to do an interview with him this week. Phillip will be going to Iraq again in March (his third time!) so he really is a true American hero in addition to being a fantastic natural bodybuilder.

Well I'm sure I'll see you at a show sometime in the near future, and I'll make sure to say hello, and I'll introduce myself as Eric and not quelly lol....and I look forward to hearing phillip on the radio station...and I'm very impressed with what he's done while in the USMC, I started bodybuilding while in the Air Force and the schedule was difficult and I wasn't even deployed...hats off to the man.
Oh they didn't mention anything about the car that was supposedly being won this year at the O....did that happen?

I was inducted into the Natural Bodybuilding Hall of Fame this weekend in San Francisco at the Natural Olympia contest. I was very honored to be chosen for this honor for the first Hall of Fame for the INBA organization. Here I am with the President of the INBA, Denny Kakos.

Congrats! Too bad we couldnt have stayed for the whole show, I would have liked to have seen that.

[NaturalLoco]

Hey again Mr O.. need some general advice on where I'm heading in regards to my general development

Here is what I am currently thinking...

MONDAY: Chest/hamstrings
TUESDAY: Back/calves
WEDNESDAY: Bicep/forearms/heavy abs
THURSDAY: Shoulders/Tricep
FRIDAY: Quads/calves

OR

MONDAY: Back/calves
TUESDAY: Chest/Hamstrings
WEDNESDAY: Bicep/forearms/heavy abs
THURSDAY: Quads/calves
FRIDAY: Shoulders/Tricep

NOTE: On back day I always include really heavy deadlifts which i have found to be of paramount importance building up my back thickness.. Anyway, for the moment my lagging muscle groups would be my chest/triceps/quads/calves .. I am confident with what excercises I will be using.. Just not sure what days are what...

My main intention and focus is having adequate rest between the uni-lateral/compound muscle groups as this in my opinion has been my problem with developing my chest/triceps

Also in relation to workout timing.. As a natural how long would you recommend training in the gym?

What do you think about my two possible training programs? if training program = el crapo lol let me know what you would recommend

Cheers

[Natural_O]

Hey again Mr O.. need some general advice on where I'm heading in regards to my general development

Here is what I am currently thinking...

MONDAY: Chest/hamstrings
TUESDAY: Back/calves
WEDNESDAY: Bicep/forearms/heavy abs
THURSDAY: Shoulders/Tricep
FRIDAY: Quads/calves

OR

MONDAY: Back/calves
TUESDAY: Chest/Hamstrings
WEDNESDAY: Bicep/forearms/heavy abs
THURSDAY: Quads/calves
FRIDAY: Shoulders/Tricep

NOTE: On back day I always include really heavy deadlifts which i have found to be of paramount importance building up my back thickness.. Anyway, for the moment my lagging muscle groups would be my chest/triceps/quads/calves .. I am confident with what excercises I will be using.. Just not sure what days are what...

My main intention and focus is having adequate rest between the uni-lateral/compound muscle groups as this in my opinion has been my problem with developing my chest/triceps

Also in relation to workout timing.. As a natural how long would you recommend training in the gym?

What do you think about my two possible training programs? if training program = el crapo lol let me know what you would recommend

Cheers

I personally would recommend that you take more days off from the gym instead of training 5 days in a row. If you are doing the basic exercises and are lifting heavy (like you said with the deadlifts), you need a complete day off after 2 or 3 days of training. You could combine more bodyparts into one workout and then have more days off during the week which would translate into more rest and bigger muscles.

My personal workout routine is to do chest, triceps and calves on day one, abs and legs (quads and hams) on day two, take the third day off, train delts, traps and calves on day four, back and biceps on day five and take day six off. This way, I am training my pushing muscle together (chest, triceps) and my pushing muscles together (back, biceps) and I never train more than 2 days in a row before taking a day off. If you feel that your back is a weak point, you could do that first in the week (day 1). Whatever bodypart you feel is your weak point, you could train that on the first day back after an off day. That way, you will have the most energy and be able to give that bodypart your full attention. I usually take a day off after legs and back because those bodyparts require the most energy.

[eschlick19]

I was inducted into the Natural Bodybuilding Hall of Fame this weekend in San Francisco at the Natural Olympia contest. I was very honored to be chosen for this honor for the first Hall of Fame for the INBA organization. Here I am with the President of the INBA, Denny Kakos.

Congrads John!!

[NaturalLoco]

I personally would recommend that you take more days off from the gym instead of training 5 days in a row. If you are doing the basic exercises and are lifting heavy (like you said with the deadlifts), you need a complete day off after 2 or 3 days of training. You could combine more bodyparts into one workout and then have more days off during the week which would translate into more rest and bigger muscles.

My personal workout routine is to do chest, triceps and calves on day one, abs and legs (quads and hams) on day two, take the third day off, train delts, traps and calves on day four, back and biceps on day five and take day six off. This way, I am training my pushing muscle together (chest, triceps) and my pushing muscles together (back, biceps) and I never train more than 2 days in a row before taking a day off. If you feel that your back is a weak point, you could do that first in the week (day 1). Whatever bodypart you feel is your weak point, you could train that on the first day back after an off day. That way, you will have the most energy and be able to give that bodypart your full attention. I usually take a day off after legs and back because those bodyparts require the most energy.

So is that a 6 day routine?
For example:

Monday: Chest/tri/calves
Tuesday: Quads/hams/abs
Wednesday: Off
Thursday: Shoulders/traps/calves
Friday: Back/Bicep
Saturday: Off
Sunday: Chest/tri/calves or a day off?

thanks again

[Natural_O]

So is that a 6 day routine?
For example:

Monday: Chest/tri/calves
Tuesday: Quads/hams/abs
Wednesday: Off
Thursday: Shoulders/traps/calves
Friday: Back/Bicep
Saturday: Off
Sunday: Chest/tri/calves or a day off?

thanks again

It's 2 on, one off with six days rest between bodyparts. Pretty advanced routine but with plenty of rest for building size.

[Natural_O]

Congrads John!!

Thanks Erik, how have you been? Is your training going good?

[NaturalLoco]

sorry one more thing i forgot to ask.. is there a substitute i can do for Thursday/traps.. as i do deadlifts with back which will be on friday which may cut into trap recovery?

[Natural_O]

sorry one more thing i forgot to ask.. is there a substitute i can do for Thursday/traps.. as i do deadlifts with back which will be on friday which may cut into trap recovery?

I used to do DB Shrugs the week I did Deadlifts. The DB Shrugs didn't get my traps as sore as Barbell Shrugs. I always felt Deadlifts in the rack more in my traps and upper back than deadlifts off the floor which I felt more in my lower back and legs.

[boostinggtir]

Hi there I really enjoy listening to your radio show keep up the good work. I just wanted to ask, do you think that when doing cardio first thing in the morning, that its good to have a protein shake before with glutamine an then another protein after? Is this the right combo for saving mass?

[Natural_O]

Hi there I really enjoy listening to your radio show keep up the good work. I just wanted to ask, do you think that when doing cardio first thing in the morning, that its good to have a protein shake before with glutamine an then another protein after? Is this the right combo for saving mass?

Yes, I would recommend just one scoop of whey protein with some glutamine about 30-45 minutes before doing cardio first thing in the morning and then another scoop of whey protein with perhaps creatine and glutamine immediately after the cardio is finished. After the cardio, you should have breakfast no more than 30 minutes later. Make sure you have high quality protein with some good complex carbs for breakfast.

Glad you enjoy the radio show (www.naturalbodybuildingradio.com). Wasn't the interview with Jerry Brainum very informative? I had to listen to the supplement interview 3x to absorb all the information that Jerry gave during that interview.

[ahmedmagdy]

hello i'm here for ur guide again
what exersices would u do to improve the lower lats

[italianplaya30]

John already answered that question for me

hello i'm here for ur guide again
what exersices would u do to improve the lower lats

Any chin or pulldown with a close grip. I like using the V-bar handle for close-grip chins or close-grip pulldowns. Also, doing barbell rows with an underhand grip and bringing the bar into the lower abs instead of the upper abs or solar plexus will work the lower lats also.

[Natural_O]

John already answered that question for me

Yep, that's it! Thanks for posting that again.

[ahmedmagdy]

thank you italianplaya30 and jhon for ur help

[strencon]

Well if they look like shi* then yes, they might be natural. One can do tons of juice, benefit from the gains, then come off, and then do a natural contest. But would that be "natural"?

[Quelly]

Well if they look like shi* then yes, they might be natural. One can do tons of juice, benefit from the gains, then come off, and then do a natural contest. But would that be "natural"?

that depends on the organization...they vary from 1-7 years drug free...you see some guys who are pretty big in the 1 year drug free shows that only urine test like musclemania, team universe....but in the wnbf pro shows you can see the difference in physique...mostly impressive physiques due to incredbile conditioning, muscle shape, posing, symmetry, and proportions, but there are a few guys who despite being drug free for 7 years (and some for life) carry a good bit of mass.

[RippedRunner]

Thanks for asking that question and I would love to explain my answer to clear everything up.

The short answer is, yes, I did use steroids about 20 years ago when I was in my early twenties but I used them only in preparation for the competitions I was entering so that was for 12 weeks once a year. I DID NOT use them to build my physique, only to hold onto muscle and keep my strength up when I was dieting.

My original goal when I started training at 14 years old was to win the Mr. Universe and be in the magazines like the guys I read about in Muscle Builder Magazine. I didn't know anything about steroids until I read an interview with Arnold in a 1978 issue of Muscle Builder magazine. In that issue, Arnold admitted that he used steroids in preparation for a contest and that all of the top bodybuilders competing in the Mr. America, Mr. Universe and Mr. Olympia used them. However, Arnold said that the drugs were only being used as a "finishing touch" and that they only accounted for a 5-10% improvement in the physique but, without that 5-10% extra improvement, you would risk losing the contest.

Arnold also advised young bodybuilders to not use the drugs to build their physiques because, if they did, they would have a drug physique, a body built with the use of steroids. He said young guys (like myself) would be much better off building their bodies through hard training and good nutrition. This would create a body built through hard work and not on drugs (a temporary condition). Since Arnold was my idol, I took his words to heart and made the decision to build my body through hard training and good nutrition.

I started competing in the teenage bodybuilding competitions at 16 years old and it didn't take long for me to realize that many of the competitors I was up against were not natural. At first, I could not believe this because Arnold said that only the top national level competitors were using steroids but here I could see that even the teenage bodybuilders were taking them.

You have to understand that the situation in the 1970's and 1980's was much different than it is today. First of all, steroids were not a federal offense, only a misdemeanor IF you got caught taking them without a doctor's prescription. Most of the general public and the media was not aware of steroids and it was never talked about in the sports pages or on television like it is today. There was a doctor only a few blocks from the gym I trained at who would readily prescribe steroids to anyone who wanted them, whether for a competition or just to get bigger.

My training partner at the time was about 5-6 years older than me and he told me he could get some steroids for me to take so I would definitely win my next teenage competition. I have to admit that it was very tempting because I was getting tired of getting beat by bodybuilders who had an unfair advantage. Even at that age, bodybuilding was my life and it was extremely hard to go into a contest and lose. I finally decided that I wanted to win Mr. America a lot more than I wanted to be Teenage Mr. America. I was going to do as Arnold said and just wait to build my physique naturally, no matter how long it took. I continued to compete naturally in all of the teenage shows I did and usually got my butt kicked. When I competed in the 1982 Teenage Mr. America, I really felt out of place. Although I took 5th place, it was a distant fifth because those guys who placed ahead of me looked unbelievable. David Hawk won my class and I swear he looked as good that night as he did when he won the NPC USA three years later and got his pro card.

When I reached my 20th birthday, I decided to take a year off of competition in order to bulk up and get as big as possible. I was 205 pounds about six months after my last teenage show and I got up to 230 pounds at 21 years old. Since I started off at 135 pounds when I began training at 14 years old, that was almost 100 pounds heavier in 7 years.

When I began competing in the open division competitions like the NPC Illinois State Championships and NPC Mid-America, I started using the drugs 12 weeks before the contest to hold onto my muscle mass and keep my strength up and get that finished look that Arnold talked about. My competition weight from 1985-1990 for these contests was between 201-208 pounds. I actually lost weight when using the drugs because I was dieting and trying to get ripped. After the show was over, I would get off the drugs and stay off them until the next year when I competed again. In the off season, my natural bodyweight would go back up to 220-230 pounds.

Although I won some state and regional contests, I never did well at the national level shows. I entered the NPC Jr. Nationals twice, in 1986 and 1989, and I never made the top 10 in either show. It didn't help that I was competing as a heavyweight only weighing about 205 pounds. However, I thought I could emulate other pro bodybuilders like Rich Gaspari and Mike Quinn, both of whom were my height and they weighed less than 210 pounds for competitions. At the 1988 Olympia, where they did an official weigh-in for all the competitors, Rich weighed 208 pounds and Mike weighed 204 pounds. Since I was right there, I thought I had a shot.

However, by the late '80's and early '90's, the competitors were getting much bigger. It didn't seem possible to make it to the top at the national or pro level by only doing the drugs for 12 weeks prior to a contest. I did not want to start taking the drugs all year long or start using the drugs to build my physique. Although it was my life-long dream, I decided to stop competing and give up my goal of becoming a pro bodybuilder.

Around this time, the natural competitions were starting to get popular. Since I had built my physique without using the drugs, I thought I could make the transition very easily and start competing naturally. My first natural show, the 1991 NPC Natural Illinois, required their competitors to be drug free for 12 months. I competed at 195 pounds which was about 5-7 pounds lighter than when I was using the drugs. However, one of the reasons I competed lighter was because I didn't give myself enough time to diet and I had to add a lot more cardio and cut my calories in order to get ripped in time for the contest. As a result, I was cut but too flat for my first natural contest. I learned that I would have to diet much longer to compete naturally.

The next year, I dieted for 16 weeks and competed at 198 pounds when I won the Natural Mr. Universe and I looked much, much better. I was 204 pounds when I competed in the 1995 Natural Universe and 208 pounds when I won the Natural Mr. Universe in 1996. Today, at 44 years old, I am about 215 pounds in lean condition and I get down to about 205 pounds for photo shoots and guest posing.

My point is that I developed my body through lots of hard and heavy training and good nutrition. The steroids were only used in small amounts and for short periods and only to create the finished look to compete. If I had used the drugs to build my size, I wouldn't have had that size when I went off the drugs.

For example, there was a bodybuilder in the '80's who had great potential and was placing high in the national level events. He placed 3rd in the heavyweight class at the 1986 Jr. Nationals weighing about 215 pounds. Several years later, he decided to compete naturally. I saw him in a magazine around 1992 and he was weighing 185 pounds. Although he looked really good at this lighter weight, it was still 30 pounds less than when he used the drugs. My point is, if you use the drugs to build your size, you will lose the size when you stop taking the drugs. You don't get to keep the size or keep some of the size as so many young bodybuilders mistakenly believe.
Like Arnold said back in 1978, the drugs are only temporary and their benefits go away after you stop taking them.

I have always been honest about the drugs that I took in the past because I have nothing to hide and I don't think they created my physique. Of course, I could have just never said anything or lied about it but that's not me. I have seen bodybuilding forums where I was called a liar and a fraud but I have always been upfront and honest about this. I think many of the people who say this don't know that I built up my size naturally or that I only used the drugs for the last 12 weeks before a contest when I was dieting. Like I said before, if I used the drugs to build my physique, I would not have the physique I have today (20 years later).

Sorry for the extremely long response but I wanted to fully explain this so you get the truth from the horse's mouth.

damn you know your stuff...

[Natural_O]

Well if they look like shi* then yes, they might be natural. One can do tons of juice, benefit from the gains, then come off, and then do a natural contest. But would that be "natural"?

I have a different viewpoint on this. The guys who use drugs to get big are the same guys who shrink the most when they get off the drugs. I don't believe in the "do the drugs, get huge, and then get off and keep all the size" theory. I've been in the bodybuilding game for over 30 years and I've seen a lot of guys in the gym who used steroids to get big (sometimes very big) and all of these guys lost substantial amounts of muscle when they went clean. In fact, most of these guys would either never get off or not even show up at the gym when they went off the drugs. They would lose as much as 30-40 pounds of muscle sometimes. When the natural shows started to get more popular in the late '80's and early '90's, I would see several competitors in my area who admittedly used steroids in the past and were now competing natural. Those guys who used the drugs a lot to build their physique looked totally different when they went natural. Some of them looked really good but they lost so much size, they didn't even look like the same bodybuilder. It's my belief that the drugs will definitely work when you take them but you don't really get to keep all that muscle when you get off the drugs. Steroids work to build more muscle by increasing protein synthesis and by supplying more (artificial) testosterone to the body. When you stop using steroids, you are no longer increasing protein synthesis and you no longer have abnormally higher levels of testosterone in your system. How could you hold onto that muscle mass if you don't have the help that the drugs supply? Like I said, in my experience of seeing bodybuilders over the last 30 years, you don't get to keep muscle that you built by using drugs. That's my opinion.

[Quelly]

I have a different viewpoint on this. The guys who use drugs to get big are the same guys who shrink the most when they get off the drugs. I don't believe in the "do the drugs, get huge, and then get off and keep all the size" theory. I've been in the bodybuilding game for over 30 years and I've seen a lot of guys in the gym who used steroids to get big (sometimes very big) and all of these guys lost substantial amounts of muscle when they went clean. In fact, most of these guys would either never get off or not even show up at the gym when they went off the drugs. They would lose as much as 30-40 pounds of muscle sometimes. When the natural shows started to get more popular in the late '80's and early '90's, I would see several competitors in my area who admittedly used steroids in the past and were now competing natural. Those guys who used the drugs a lot to build their physique looked totally different when they went natural. Some of them looked really good but they lost so much size, they didn't even look like the same bodybuilder. It's my belief that the drugs will definitely work when you take them but you don't really get to keep all that muscle when you get off the drugs. Steroids work to build more muscle by increasing protein synthesis and by supplying more (artificial) testosterone to the body. When you stop using steroids, you are no longer increasing protein synthesis and you no longer have abnormally higher levels of testosterone in your system. How could you hold onto that muscle mass if you don't have the help that the drugs supply? Like I said, in my experience of seeing bodybuilders over the last 30 years, you don't get to keep muscle that you built by using drugs. That's my opinion.

look at levrone, or yates, I would agree

[italianplaya30]

Hey John i was listening to your interview on www.naturalbodybuildingradio.com and i have a question regaurding a statement you made....You stated that as a teen you needed more size you said you were competiting at 170-180lbs and that you needed to bulk up...you said you took 2 years off to build the size and at 21 you got to 230lbs

I find myself in a similar situation.....could you maybe give some tips or recommendation on a successful bulk....did you care about fat gain? Did you monitor your food intake? What was your weight progression like (ex 1-2lbs per week)?

thanks and very informative show!

[Natural_O]

Hey John i was listening to your interview on www.naturalbodybuildingradio.com and i have a question regaurding a statement you made....You stated that as a teen you needed more size you said you were competiting at 170-180lbs and that you needed to bulk up...you said you took 2 years off to build the size and at 21 you got to 230lbs

I find myself in a similar situation.....could you maybe give some tips or recommendation on a successful bulk....did you care about fat gain? Did you monitor your food intake? What was your weight progression like (ex 1-2lbs per week)?

thanks and very informative show!

Hey Anthony,

No, I wasn't worried about fat gain at that time because it was almost impossible for me to gain weight. I would eat and eat and eat and could never get bigger. I got up to over 200 pounds right after I stopped competing when my teenage days were over. In six months, my bodyweight jumped up over 200 pounds but then it was stuck at 205 for six months. I was training heavy four days a week but I couldn't get my actual bodyweight to go up.

Finally, I had to really increase the amount of food I was eating. I don't think I was writing it down but I was eating the same amount of food each day. I concentrated on increasing my calories by eating more foods that had fat in them (eggs, beef, nuts, etc) as well as just increasing the amount of food I was eating every day. It seemed like if I slacked off on the eating, even for one day, my bodyweight would slow down again and I wouldn't gain more weight. I wanted to get up to 220-230 pounds and just get huge.

Here is what my diet consisted of when I was bulking up:

Breakfast - 7 egg omlette (whole eggs not egg whites) made with muenster cheese and 3 slices of whole wheat bread with butter and honey.

Protein Drink - 2 cups of whole milk, 1-2 eggs, banana, protein powder and ice cream

Lunch- 1/2 pound of lean hamburger meat with 4 slices of whole wheat bread (2 sandwiches) and cheese

Protein Drink - Same

Dinner - Meat or chicken with pasta, rice or potatoes

Protein Drink - Same

Snack - 1/2 pint of Haagen Daaz ice cream (vanilla swiss almond with chocolate covered almonds)

Eating like this, I slowly started to gain weight and then, toward the end, I was gaining a lot of weight quickly. The weight progression was slow at first and then increased as my metabolism started to slow down.

Also, I really stopped all outside activity. I didn't do any cardio or other sports. I tried to sleep at least 8 hours a night and then take a hour nap during the day. My weight went from 205 in Feb to 230 by August eating like this.

[corpun]

Hi John,

Not that I'm anywhere near a condition to compete yet but I may be giving it a shot some time down the road.

I've looked at the banned substance lists I could find and it all seems good except for one thing which may or may not be a problem. I see ephedrine listed on there as banned but what about pseudoephedrine? I have a problem with congestion and allergies so in the last year I've taken Claritin-D which contains pseudoephedrine sulfate and Sudafed which is pseudoephedrine HCL.

Does this mean I couldnt compete for 5 or 7 years depending on the comp? I couldnt find those specific compounds on the lists at naturalbodybuilding.com but the lists that are available online typically state they are not all inclusive. I'm not sure if they even consider those separate drugs from ephedrine although they are significantly less potent.

Thanks,
David

[Natural_O]

Hi John,

Not that I'm anywhere near a condition to compete yet but I may be giving it a shot some time down the road.

I've looked at the banned substance lists I could find and it all seems good except for one thing which may or may not be a problem. I see ephedrine listed on there as banned but what about pseudoephedrine? I have a problem with congestion and allergies so in the last year I've taken Claritin-D which contains pseudoephedrine sulfate and Sudafed which is pseudoephedrine HCL.

Does this mean I couldnt compete for 5 or 7 years depending on the comp? I couldnt find those specific compounds on the lists at naturalbodybuilding.com but the lists that are available online typically state they are not all inclusive. I'm not sure if they even consider those separate drugs from ephedrine although they are significantly less potent.

Thanks,
David

Hi David, you would have to check with the heads of each individual organization but pseudoephedrine is not the same as ephedrine, which is a diet aid and helps to get you cut up faster. I don't think it is banned but, like I said, check with whichever organization you are going to compete in.