🦇🦠🧪✡️ COVID-19 Hangout Thread 🔬🛸💊🦎 Episode IV: A New Hope

[chalup]

So my mom had a IM doctor sneak in and take a picture behind the covid19 machine, then posted it on ******** about her being over the covid19 response team of the company. She hasn't even ordered 1 test for it. This has to be going on all over the nation.

[chalup]

How do they know it's false positive?

Multiple test on the same patient as well as control's throwing up positives when it should be negative. The test are actually useless right now.

[TaeBoNinja]

Multiple test on the same patient as well as control's throwing up positives when it should be negative. The test are actually useless right now.

There's been multiple studies, in multiple countries, not just one.

[chalup]

There's been multiple studies, in multiple countries, not just one.

I'm talking about actual test done in a lab in the US. You can believe the results if it makes you feel better.

[Blasting]

There's been multiple studies, in multiple countries, not just one.

No idea why the doom and gloom crew swears that antibodies tests can’t be trusted but they trust the tests for the virus.

[TaeBoNinja]

I'm talking about actual test done in a lab in the US. You can believe the results if it makes you feel better.

No offence, but your mom being a lab worker doesn't negate every antibody test.

[Farley1324]

No idea why the doom and gloom crew swears that antibodies tests can’t be trusted but they trust the tests for the virus.

Antibody tests can be trusted.

So far, they have shown 1.5% to as high as the huge number of 6% of the sampled population having antibodies.

So, maybe, if we are generous, we are 1/10 of the way to herd immunity numbers.

The New York antibody test indicates an IFR of about 0.65% BTW, so, only about 6-7 times deadlier than flu.

You can disbelieve the antibody tests if you want...and clearly you do because you refuse to believe what they tell us...but, that is what they show so far


(but that's without getting into the false positive non-fda approved nature of the tests and why they haven't been peer reviewed)

[chalup]

No idea why the doom and gloom crew swears that antibodies tests can’t be trusted but they trust the tests for the virus.

I'm not doom and gloom I'm literally stating what my mom has done per test. I find it odd you guys defend the antibody test so hard when you have zero idea about any of it but random articles you read online? You do realize an antibody test are completely different right? The covid19 is testing for the virus period, it has a viral load that will make it a positive after a certain load. The antibody test is testing positive for RA, and other coronavirus's. It literally is useless.

[chalup]

No offence, but your mom being a lab worker doesn't negate every antibody test.

I never said that. Lets wait for an FDA approved test. Right now the doctors are pushing any test they can for money, so ofcourse people will believe it because a doctor said so. The problem is our doctors get paid by any test given, even more so with the covid19.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/pres...ological-tests

[TaeBoNinja]

I'm not doom and gloom I'm literally stating what my mom has done per test. I find it odd you guys defend the antibody test so hard when you have zero idea about any of it but random articles you read online? You do realize an antibody test are completely different right? The covid19 is testing for the virus period, it has a viral load that will make it a positive after a certain load. The antibody test is testing positive for RA, and other coronavirus's. It literally is useless.

It's ridiculous to say antibody tests are useless. And they're not new, so save the "you have zero idea how they work" nonsense. Again, your mom telling you to disregard them doesn't hold much water with me or the scientific community. If you want to argue that one study used suspect testing, cool, but stop painting wiht a broad brush.

[TaeBoNinja]

I never said that. Lets wait for an FDA approved test. Right now the doctors are pushing any test they can for money, so ofcourse people will believe it because a doctor said so. The problem is our doctors get paid by any test given, even more so with the covid19.

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/pres...ological-tests

This is true of doctors 24/7 with everything. Money makes their world go around. Doesn't negate the antibody tests though.

[chalup]

It's ridiculous to say antibody tests are useless. And they're not new, so save the "you have zero idea how they work" nonsense. Again, your mom telling you to disregard them doesn't hold much water with me or the scientific community. If you want to argue that one study used suspect testing, cool, but stop painting wiht a broad brush.

Okay, show me what you are referring to.

[TaeBoNinja]

Okay, show me what you are referring to.

John Hopkins did one for example, I'll try to dig it up later.

[awwchit2]

yeah i dont really get how people are saying having antibodies doesn't mean a thing. like that goes against everything we know about immunity.

wtf you think vaccines do? you get infected with a small portion of virus to set off a minor immune response, from which you develop antibodies for. Which keeps you IMMUNE to catching whatever you are vaccinated against.

like my mind is blown. having antibodies already for covid19 is a great achievement. if you happen to get infected twice, i highly highly highly doubt it will be EVEN close to as severe as the first.

influenza vaccines aren't perfect anyways and people still get the flu while vaccinated. so for anything thinking a covid19 vaccine will eliminate it from the planet, no. we have flu vaccines and we still live with flu. It's time to start accepting life must go on and cases will never be zero. just get to herd immunity as fast as possible. imo.

[Blasting]

I'm not doom and gloom I'm literally stating what my mom has done per test. I find it odd you guys defend the antibody test so hard when you have zero idea about any of it but random articles you read online? You do realize an antibody test are completely different right? The covid19 is testing for the virus period, it has a viral load that will make it a positive after a certain load. The antibody test is testing positive for RA, and other coronavirus's. It literally is useless.

If it’s “literally useless” then why are so many of them being done by scientists and research labs?

[TrinnieBuu]

The vast majority of COVID19 antibodies tests are actually not FDA approved. This is a fact. They haven’t even been reviewed by the FDA.

That means any random made in China (some actually are made in China) antibodies test can be used for these studies.

And I’m sure everyone heard about the COVID19 nasal swaps coming from China and how accurate they are.

To date the only study done using a test that was granted emergency use approval by the FDA is the one done in NY. Emergency use approval does not require the same level of proof and review as a full approval, but at least it’s reviewed and not made in someone’s basement.

[Farley1324]

The vast majority of COVID19 antibodies tests are actually not FDA approved. This is a fact. They haven’t even been reviewed by the FDA.

That means any random made in China (some actually are made in China) antibodies test can be used for these studies.

And I’m sure everyone heard about the COVID19 nasal swaps coming from China and how accurate they are.

To date the only study done using a test that was granted emergency use approval by the FDA is the one done in NY. Emergency use approval does not require the same level of proof and review as a full approval, but at least it’s reviewed and not made in someone’s basement.

Correct.

And that one in NY tells us the IFR is about 6-7 times higher then the flu.

But, nobody wants to believe that around here.

[TrinnieBuu]

Correct.

And that one in NY tells us the IFR is about 6-7 times higher then the flu.

But, nobody wants to believe that around here.

Not to mention NY specifically waited until their test got EUA before rolling out the study. Probably wouldn’t look good if they used an unreviewed test and it either comes back with 2% or like 90% and no one believes it. Wasting 2x money to redo it with an approved test.

Most of the studies done so far are done by private research so they have money to waste and redo multiple times. Not sure why that’s a good business model though.

[jackamo2887]

More and more evidence pointing towards it being airborne AIDS blended with a nerve agent. No cure. Likely to mutate soon enough into a deadlier form.

[Blasting]

Correct.

And that one in NY tells us the IFR is about 6-7 times higher then the flu.

But, nobody wants to believe that around here.

Who? I believe that could be true. What I never believed was that this thing had a 3-5% death rate

[ANumber1]

No idea why the doom and gloom crew swears that antibodies tests can’t be trusted but they trust the tests for the virus.

No offence, but your mom being a lab worker doesn't negate every antibody test.

Much of the antibody testing in the United States is being done with tests that haven't been thoroughly vetted by the FDA. That's the reason this keeps coming up. How severely it skews the data is unknown, but the issues with false positives are widely-reported. Regulatory exceptions were made to allow a few tests to be used for emergency purposes due to the circumstances, but there is also apparently widespread substitution fraud going on with kits that have not been approved at all and are being imported and sold grey market.

Some more information here:

https://www.evaluate.com/vantage/art...ecific-problem

It's not exactly "gloom and doom", but this is a brand new thing which is hitting some big bumps.

[TrinnieBuu]

Much of the antibody testing in the United States is being done with tests that haven't been thoroughly vetted by the FDA. That's the reason this keeps coming up. How severely it skews the data is unknown, but the issues with false positives are widely-reported. Regulatory exceptions were made to allow a few tests to be used for emergency purposes due to the circumstances, but there is also apparently widespread antibody testing and substitution fraud going on with kits that have not been approved at all and are being imported and sold grey market.

I’m actually kind of confused why the 4 privately funded tests that do have FDA EUA aren’t being used in the bigger studies. Every time I look into which tests these studies are using it’s some random lab.

Also disclaimer: just bc it wasn’t FDA reviewed doesn’t mean it’s inaccurate, it just means no one verified its accuracy.

[Farley1324]

Who? I believe that could be true. What I never believed was that this thing had a 3-5% death rate

I don't think anybody ever even floated a 5%. The initial data way back at the beginning was saying 3.4%. That has come down for sure.

But, 'just the flu' is ~0.1%

The NY antibody test points to at least 0.5% but more like 0.65%-ish, best number on the info so far.

Consider that 0.1% of the entire population of the state of new york has (under reported IMO) died to covid-19, and the antibody test is showing around 20% with antibodies. Real stupid simple math says that if 0.1% of total population has died and 20% have been infected, that's 0.5% IFR. But in NYC itself, it's higher than that, works out to about 0.67% for NYC last time we looked at those numbers a couple days ago

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/fifth...184749036.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...ers-with-virus



Which is obviously not 3.4, but, it's obviously not 0.1, either. It's almost smack dab in the middle of the two. Six times higher than 0.1, and about 1/6 of 3.4.






And something we haven't been mentioning at all in this thread that could be a major factor, is different strains. It could be NYC has a different strain running around than a lot of other places. There are several identified strains already.

[TrinnieBuu]

Who? I believe that could be true. What I never believed was that this thing had a 3-5% death rate

Even when this thing impacted only China the fatality rate was obviously not 3-5%. Hubei was 4% because it was overwhelmed and many were left to die. The rest of China had under 1% fatalities.

If anything if a country has 5-10% fatalities it means they’re massively under testing.

[Farley1324]

Even when this thing impacted only China the fatality rate was obviously not 3-5%. Hubei was 4% because it was overwhelmed and many were left to die. The rest of China had under 1% fatalities.

If anything if a country has 5-10% fatalities it means they’re massively under testing.

Also, and we touched on this earlier, it's possible, to an extent, maybe, part of china's higher fatality ratio could have been based in reality in that they smoke heavily, and apparently it's possible smoking makes you less likely to get it, but more likely to be severe or lethal when you do. Bam, higher CFR

[TaeBoNinja]

Much of the antibody testing in the United States is being done with tests that haven't been thoroughly vetted by the FDA. That's the reason this keeps coming up. How severely it skews the data is unknown, but the issues with false positives are widely-reported. Regulatory exceptions were made to allow a few tests to be used for emergency purposes due to the circumstances, but there is also apparently widespread substitution fraud going on with kits that have not been approved at all and are being imported and sold grey market.

Some more information here:

https://www.evaluate.com/vantage/art...ecific-problem

It's not exactly "gloom and doom", but this is a brand new thing which is hitting some big bumps.

Lack of FDA approval doesn't make them invalid. Covid is a new disease so how much vetting could one expect for these tests?. Seems like a strange hill to die on.

[ANumber1]

Consider that 0.1% of the entire population of the state of new york has (under reported IMO) died to covid-19, and the antibody test is showing around 20% with antibodies. Real stupid simple math says that if 0.1% of total population has died and 20% have been infected, that's 0.5% IFR. But in NYC itself, it's higher than that, works out to about 0.67% for NYC last time we looked at those numbers a couple days ago

...and although I've pointed this out before, once more with feeling:

80% of all New Yorkers who have been confirmed to have gotten COVID-19 are still listed as active cases today. It's not like we're at the tail end of this and there's some statistically insignificant number of stragglers with unresolved outcomes. The percentage in the current pool of patients who die will only continue to increase, because none of them will come back to life.

Supposing NY's antibody study is accurate, based on the pattern we've seen with lingering patients in other outbreaks that were brought under control, it wouldn't surprise me if we land very close to the 1% Fauci ballparked at the beginning.

Lack of FDA approval doesn't make them invalid. Covid is a new disease so how much vetting could one expect for these tests?. Seems like a strange hill to die on.

Lack of FDA approval doesn't make them valid, either. The article I gave you talks about some of the issues with the various levels of accuracy even self-reported by the manufacturers, and those problems are being observed in the field, as well. I'm prepared to entertain the validity of any of these studies, but this is a real issue. You asked about an anecdotal observation and that's the larger systemic problem behind it.

https://covidtestingproject.org/

Either way, I'd submit to you that if we're picking strange hills to die on, "it's fine that it hasn't been thoroughly vetted because what can you expect, this is all new and we're doing this for the first time" is the stranger of the two. Most reasonable people would recognize that it logically follows that it is more likely that some of the products are fooked compared to a situation where manufacturers know what they're doing because there's experience to draw on.

[TaeBoNinja]

I don't think anybody ever even floated a 5%. The initial data way back at the beginning was saying 3.4%. That has come down for sure.

But, 'just the flu' is ~0.1%

The NY antibody test points to at least 0.5% but more like 0.65%-ish, best number on the info so far.

Consider that 0.1% of the entire population of the state of new york has (under reported IMO) died to covid-19, and the antibody test is showing around 20% with antibodies. Real stupid simple math says that if 0.1% of total population has died and 20% have been infected, that's 0.5% IFR. But in NYC itself, it's higher than that, works out to about 0.67% for NYC last time we looked at those numbers a couple days ago

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/fifth...184749036.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...ers-with-virus



Which is obviously not 3.4, but, it's obviously not 0.1, either. It's almost smack dab in the middle of the two. Six times higher than 0.1, and about 1/6 of 3.4.






And something we haven't been mentioning at all in this thread that could be a major factor, is different strains. It could be NYC has a different strain running around than a lot of other places. There are several identified strains already.

0.5% in a clusterfuk like NY isn't all that bad. It's lower outside of NY and REALLY lower outside of nursing homes. 25% of New York deaths were in nursing homes

[TaeBoNinja]

Lack of FDA approval doesn't make them valid, either. The article I gave you talks about some of the issues with the various levels of accuracy even self-reported by the manufacturers, and those issues are being observed in the field, as well. I'm prepared to entertain the validity of any of these studies, but this is a real issue and you asked about an anecdotal observation and that's the larger systemic problem behind it.

However, I'd submit to you that if we're picking strange hills to die on "it's fine that it hasn't been thoroughly vetted because this is all new and we're doing this for the first time" is the stranger of the two. Most reasonable people would recognize that that significantly increases the chances that the product is fooked.

The article you posted didn't dismiss the accuracy of the tests, just pointed out they weren't vetted.

And using non-scientific garbage models is using a porduct that's fooked. Antibody test will get vetted soon enough, the whole point was people calling them useless or saying we ignore them. With you...we know the agenda, you don't want more cases already because it shows that covid isn't so big bad we should fear.

[R3L3NTL3SS]

Haven't been ITT or read anything about COVID in days.

Antibody testing now showing death rate is sub 1% like myself and many others said it likely was weeks ago?

Just lmfao that we're continuing to destroy our economy for this ****.

#openupourcountry
#trump2020