Does a college degree = only way to success?

[SD500]

Success is a subjective word, it is in the eye of the beholder. To one, success may mean living on their own without parents help and owning a car while making $35k/year. To some success may mean "CEO'n 10k a day" living in a million dollar home, driving a bentley.

Right, but for all intents and purposes, I am fairly sure OP meant financially.

[saiyar1]

It's simple. Look at the long term statistics, not the past 2 years. On average, those with an undergrad make MUCH more than those without one. Their lifetime earnings AND yearly salary both are higher.

Schools are academic institutions. Of course they going to push more school, why wouldn't they push more academics.


This country is moving further and further away from labor jobs. Labor jobs need some sort of trade school and very specific training. People need to get it through their heads and STOP TREATING COLLEGES LIKE TRADE SCHOOLS. It is not sequential in that you like X major, get X degree, go into X career, and retire after doing X for 35 years.

GOOD colleges force you to think, exercise your brain, expand your general knowledge, and make you well rounded. Why? So you can apply your BRAIN to an intellectual career. Engineers are being hired into finance, History majors are being hired into consulting, Economics majors are being hired into small business strategy roles, media and graphic designers are hired into client relationship roles/sales.

When you can use your BRAIN, you can be flexible, adapt, move into different roles, and thus increase your earnings, increase your job satisfaction, etc. Go to college, stress your brain, learn to deal with pressure, and it will make you more successful.

The hallmark of humanity is not backbreaking manual labor. We are higher thinking creatures that strive to use our most powerful "muscle"... the brain. If we evolved to do so much manual labor, we'd have evolved to be physically stronger.

[DieselRobert1]

sounds like a cry for help

Not really, I could return to college at any time, and easily graduate debt free. I wanted a discussion.

Right, but for all intents and purposes, I am fairly sure OP meant financially.

Financial stability can be different depending on the area you live in, I wouldn't want to make 50k and live in SD, California, however 50k in middle Tennessee is living good. I am talking about just decent living, something you can buy a house, and support a family, as wealth isn't the end all be all in my opinion

[mfitty9000]

A bachelors degree would never make that much. Would require either an md, do, phd, mba, or a **** ton of good luck being an entrepreneur to make 200k+.

i like how you ninja edited.

oil rig welders make $42k a year and they still require certification/education higher than high school

http://www.oil-rig-job.com/jobs-welder.html

you cant just post a job from one oil rig and say they all make 42k/year

it vastly depends on your experience, where you live, who you work for etc.

i would spit on that particular job, what a piece of crap.

i have no problem believing on a great year, an experienced 10-15+ year welder managed to pull 200k


also you wont find ads for a 200k/year trade job because every bum and felon would apply for them. you get them by experience and good worksmanship, contacts and as you move up and are known to be reliable you start geting $100/hr on big contracts. complete them fast more contracts come your way.

[mfitty9000]

It's simple. Look at the long term statistics, not the past 2 years. On average, those with an undergrad make MUCH more than those without one. Their lifetime earnings AND yearly salary both are higher.

Schools are academic institutions. Of course they going to push more school, why wouldn't they push more academics.


This country is moving further and further away from labor jobs. Labor jobs need some sort of trade school and very specific training. People need to get it through their heads and STOP TREATING COLLEGES LIKE TRADE SCHOOLS. It is not sequential in that you like X major, get X degree, go into X career, and retire after doing X for 35 years.

GOOD colleges force you to think, exercise your brain, expand your general knowledge, and make you well rounded. Why? So you can apply your BRAIN to an intellectual career. Engineers are being hired into finance, History majors are being hired into consulting, Economics majors are being hired into small business strategy roles, media and graphic designers are hired into client relationship roles/sales.

When you can use your BRAIN, you can be flexible, adapt, move into different roles, and thus increase your earnings, increase your job satisfaction, etc. Go to college, stress your brain, learn to deal with pressure, and it will make you more successful.

The hallmark of humanity is not backbreaking manual labor.

bla bla I'm sick of hearing the "average" stuff, when you lump every non-college grad in together you are dragging down skilled trades workers by lumping them in with walmart greeters and mcdonalds fry boys.

skilled trades pay well. however many require at least some college to get your foot in the door and at least 3-5 years experience before you start earning real cash. and you have to be a hard worker, nobody wants a whiny b*tch on the job site.

[irishbarry]

you cant just post a job from one oil rig and say they all make 42k/year

it vastly depends on your experience, where you live, who you work for etc.

i would spit on that particular job, what a piece of crap.

i have no problem believing on a great year, an experienced 10-15+ year welder managed to pull 200k


also you wont find ads for a 200k/year trade job because every bum and felon would apply for them. you get them by experience and good worksmanship, contacts and as you move up and are known to be reliable you start geting $100/hr on big contracts. complete them fast more contracts come your way.

yea oil rig welders make much more than 42k/year, thats probably minimum starting base pay. I know from experience.

[DieselRobert1]

yea oil rig welders make much more than 42k/year, thats probably minimum starting base pay. I know from experience.

I had a question for you, so I sent you a PM.

It's simple. Look at the long term statistics, not the past 2 years. On average, those with an undergrad make MUCH more than those without one. Their lifetime earnings AND yearly salary both are higher.

Schools are academic institutions. Of course they going to push more school, why wouldn't they push more academics.


This country is moving further and further away from labor jobs. Labor jobs need some sort of trade school and very specific training. People need to get it through their heads and STOP TREATING COLLEGES LIKE TRADE SCHOOLS. It is not sequential in that you like X major, get X degree, go into X career, and retire after doing X for 35 years.

GOOD colleges force you to think, exercise your brain, expand your general knowledge, and make you well rounded. Why? So you can apply your BRAIN to an intellectual career. Engineers are being hired into finance, History majors are being hired into consulting, Economics majors are being hired into small business strategy roles, media and graphic designers are hired into client relationship roles/sales.

When you can use your BRAIN, you can be flexible, adapt, move into different roles, and thus increase your earnings, increase your job satisfaction, etc. Go to college, stress your brain, learn to deal with pressure, and it will make you more successful.

The hallmark of humanity is not backbreaking manual labor. We are higher thinking creatures that strive to use our most powerful "muscle"... the brain. If we evolved to do so much manual labor, we'd have evolved to be physically stronger.

I disagree, you will always have skilled trades, you wouldn't have power in your house without an electrician, or running water without a plumber. And the one's that work hard, and doing quite well, at least in my area of Florida. They're the one's who worked hard, took their knocks, built their own companies and are rolling in the cash. Still an extreme example, but skilled trades aren't going anywhere.

[scubapro1]

A bachelors degree would never make that much. Would require either an md, do, phd, mba, or a **** ton of good luck being an entrepreneur to make 200k+.

i like how you ninja edited.

oil rig welders make $42k a year and they still require certification/education higher than high school

http://www.oil-rig-job.com/jobs-welder.html

I have an old friend who works as a contracter for the goverment overseas. U mad he's never been in college and is making 400k in 4 months? Granted, he cant just stay there year round and make a millions

[irishbarry]

bla bla I'm sick of hearing the "average" stuff, when you lump every non-college grad in together you are dragging down skilled trades workers by lumping them in with walmart greeters and mcdonalds fry boys.

skilled trades pay well. however many require at least some college to get your foot in the door and at least 3-5 years experience before you start earning real cash. and you have to be a hard worker, nobody wants a whiny b*tch on the job site.

skill trades require college? what the hell are u talking about? Over here in boston, 90% of the jobsites are union based..They require 3-5year completion of a apprenticeship program. You need to know people, and be connected to get your foot through your door..college doesn't mean ****.

[ispy]

both are multibillionaires
neither one has a college degree

/thread

gates has a degree.

and now we can /thread

[gillespi005]

just like others said, success is you. A degree will help you get higher on the ladder but does not guarentee that position. Alot of higher paying positions typically do require higher education, but they wont just give you the job because you have it. understand?

[wisconsinite]

take it from a guy who has an associates who can't get a job doing anything worthwhile or making anymore than 30k a yr. Get your 4 yr degree opens all kinds of doors

[Setenza]

it does not depend on the degree, it depends on the person

[Cell-Tech]

ITT: People with degrees say yes, while people without degrees say no.


However, like a previous poster said. It is much more difficult to climb the corporate ladder without a degree, than it is with a degree.

I'm about to finish up a physics degree and I said no.

[mfitty9000]

skill trades require college? what the hell are u talking about? Over here in boston, 90% of the jobsites are union based..They require 3-5year completion of a apprenticeship program. You need to know people, and be connected to get your foot through your door..college doesn't mean ****.

Apply to a big union, if you dont know anyone and dont have experience about the ONLY way you get your foot in the door is by doing a pre-trade program in college or something, thats what I'm doing (8 month pre-trade electrial program at CC)

Unions wouldnt even look at me without that unless I had an uncle in there to hook me up. I said most trades, not all. Its like police foundations you dont NEED it to become a police officer but to get your foot in the door its almost mandatory in this day and age even if it doesnt "officially" say so on the job application.

[YUL]

when I've seen and known people who are blue collar skilled tradesmen, making 100k+ a year.

would you prefer 100k/yr working on your feet 50+ hrs/week and being outdoors most of the time or 100k/yr working 40 hrs a week in an office with lunch breaks and other perks?

what happens when skilled trades people have any form of accident and can't work? they don't get paid

management jobs: you can still work

[wrenny420]

These threads come up all the time in the misc.

I'll say it again. You don't need one to get that entry level job. That same job a guy with a degree and a guy without a degree applied for. Some companies will take the guy with the degree, some companies will take whichever want interviewed better, and some will just take the whos friends/related to someone else.

So yes, you can land a 30-50k a year job without it.

Degrees come into play when you want to start getting promoted and getting more salary. You make a good reputation and that can get you so far, maybe even to the a manager level but trying to get executive level or higher you'll need a degree.

I make 85k with no degree, working my way up from 35k a year 5 years ago. Hard work, networking, and experience. I can reach 100k at the job I'm at but my next level is manager so I'm eventually gonna finish school.

[saiyar1]

bla bla I'm sick of hearing the "average" stuff, when you lump every non-college grad in together you are dragging down skilled trades workers by lumping them in with walmart greeters and mcdonalds fry boys.

skilled trades pay well. however many require at least some college to get your foot in the door and at least 3-5 years experience before you start earning real cash. and you have to be a hard worker, nobody wants a whiny b*tch on the job site.

Two things:
1) You assume that a college grad, corporate worker somehow doesn't work as hard. You are stuck in an incorrect mentality. Successful corporate jobs require more than punching in the hours. Work come home with you and it is much more of 24/7 job. Intellectual/emotional stress, IMO, is much more taxing than physical exhaustion. I don't see where you got whiny from.

You may think you are tough and not whiny; the reality is your job requires you to shut the fuk up and work and keep your head down. Use your brain.


2) Let's remove the Bill Gates, etc from the group. they are not skilled workers, they are basically self taught intellectuals.
Of course you have to use averages. Even with taking out the "Walmart workers", college grads will open the most doors to make more money. Manual Labor jobs may have higher wages in the beginning, but quickly give that up on average. Plus, what the hell is there to brag about saying you work 50 overtime hours breaking your back just to make more. Plus the salary on average tops out much faster in labor jobs.

What kind of idiot doesn't look at statistics and correlations. What the hell do you base your opinions on? Fairy tales?

Using your logic, let's just all strive to be NFL players because they are tough and not whiny. Plus they make more than other people, so just focus on football. Pffft. 0.0001% of people make it into the NFL, but who care about statistics, YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE IT!!!!

[Funds]

[mfitty9000]

Two things:
1) You assume that a college grad, corporate worker somehow doesn't work as hard. You are stuck in an incorrect mentality. Successful corporate jobs require more than punching in the hours. Work come home with you and it is much more of 24/7 job. Intellectual/emotional stress, IMO, is much more taxing than physical exhaustion. I don't see where you got whiny from.

You may think you are tough and not whiny; the reality is your job requires you to shut the fuk up and work and keep your head down. Use your brain.


2) Let's remove the Bill Gates, etc from the group. they are not skilled workers, they are basically self taught intellectuals.
Of course you have to use averages. Even with taking out the "Walmart workers", college grads will open the most doors to make more money. Manual Labor jobs may have higher wages in the beginning, but quickly give that up on average. Plus, what the hell is there to brag about saying you work 50 overtime hours breaking your back just to make more. Plus the salary on average tops out much faster in labor jobs.

What kind of idiot doesn't look at statistics and correlations. What the hell do you base your opinions on? Fairy tales?

Using your logic, let's just all strive to be NFL players because they are tough and not whiny. Plus they make more than other people, so just focus on football. Pffft. 0.0001% of people make it into the NFL, but who care about statistics, YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE IT!!!!

I never said office workers dont "work hard" but lettuce be cereal half the misc right now is working in some office miscing while pretending to do some BS on a spreadsheet.

Nothing wrong with statistics but you are using the WRONG ones for this argument. Instead of college grad to non college grad where the gap is huge, try college grad to master skilled trade worker (finished apprenticeship). More specifically compare undergrad salary with 5 years experience to skilled trade worker with 10 (I consider 5 year apprentice = to 4 year degree, so compare their first 5 years of "real" work)

Now the gap is MUCH smaller, something they dont tell you in those schools which BTW are a massive business and they only show you the types of figures they want you to see. Yeah no sh*t a mcdonalds part timer earning $9300 a year drags down the overall non college grad figures. Colleges love that sh*t.

Anyway no hate on colleges. But I laugh when people act like you cant make a real career out of the skilled trades. Guy who worked on my house took a summer off with his crew, used his own money to pay them and they built a multi million dollar cottage which he sold within months. You mad he never went to college and is a multi millionaire blue collar business owner?

[SUPER_MANLET]

I hope so..

[saiyar1]

I never said office workers dont "work hard" but lettuce be cereal half the misc right now is working in some office miscing while pretending to do some BS on a spreadsheet.

Nothing wrong with statistics but you are using the WRONG ones for this argument. Instead of college grad to non college grad where the gap is huge, try college grad to master skilled trade worker (finished apprenticeship). More specifically compare undergrad salary with 5 years experience to skilled trade worker with 10 (I consider 5 year apprentice = to 4 year degree, so compare their first 5 years of "real" work)

Now the gap is MUCH smaller, something they dont tell you in those schools which BTW are a massive business and they only show you the types of figures they want you to see. Yeah no sh*t a mcdonalds part timer earning $9300 a year drags down the overall non college grad figures. Colleges love that sh*t.

Anyway no hate on colleges. But I laugh when people act like you cant make a real career out of the skilled trades. Guy who worked on my house took a summer off with his crew, used his own money to pay them and they built a multi million dollar cottage which he sold within months. You mad he never went to college and is a multi millionaire blue collar business owner?

When you own your own business, the rule change. However, the rate of successful business is a tough thing to overcome. Otherwise, most people don't have the talent to manage a small business. In that case, why go into a job that is not a growing industry, probably a shrinking industry? The future of the US is in Intellectual property and services.

[everblue]

you cant just post a job from one oil rig and say they all make 42k/year

it vastly depends on your experience, where you live, who you work for etc.

i would spit on that particular job, what a piece of crap.

i have no problem believing on a great year, an experienced 10-15+ year welder managed to pull 200k

I looked up more sources
http://brassmein.com/articles/oilrig_jobs.htm

http://ezinearticles.com/?Rig-Weldin...obs&id=1948612

http://www.articlesnatch.com/topic/oil+rig+welding+jobs

None of these sources have said anything about making more than $70k a year, let alone $200k. i'm a cynical logical person, people lie, and $200k for welding seems to be unheard of except for the friend.

A dollar is much to a homeless person......................

Exactly my point

Right, but for all intents and purposes, I am fairly sure OP meant financially.

Yes, I know. Some people believe success is making enough money to live out on their own, while some believe success is making a enough money to have everything. Some people are materialistic some people aren't.

also you wont find ads for a 200k/year trade job because every bum and felon would apply for them. you get them by experience and good worksmanship, contacts and as you move up and are known to be reliable you start geting $100/hr on big contracts. complete them fast more contracts come your way.

Would you mind finding a few sources that would agree with your statement?

I have an old friend who works as a contracter for the goverment overseas. U mad he's never been in college and is making 400k in 4 months? Granted, he cant just stay there year round and make a millions

i aint even mad

I edited because I know I don't know about the industry I am just going off what he told me, I don't know the particulars, but do a bit of googling, any variation of 'wealth in welding' or w/e, and you will see there is money to be had. I had no reason to not believe the welder with a spanking new 3500HD duramax diesel welding rig. I don't know about you, but I can't drop 60,000 on a truck that costs around 100+ an oil change, a long with 100 dollar diesel fuel bills.

The greatest thing about America is, if you don't have $60,000 for a vehicle, you can get a loan from a bank.

A $100 diesel oil change should get you the synthetic **** that lasts you like 9k miles. my buddy doesn't change his oil in his cummins but every 12k miles. i change mine every 6k miles with full synethetic and it costs ~$35, so it's not that much more on maintenance.

[b0ngman]

becoome an underwater welder... you will bank!

[faddy5624]

A bachelors degree would never make that much. Would require either an md, do, phd, mba, or a **** ton of good luck being an entrepreneur to make 200k+.

i like how you ninja edited.

oil rig welders make $42k a year and they still require certification/education higher than high school

http://www.oil-rig-job.com/jobs-welder.html

lies. 200k is achievable with only a bachelors degree.

[mfitty9000]

When you own your own business, the rule change. However, the rate of successful business is a tough thing to overcome. Otherwise, most people don't have the talent to manage a small business. In that case, why go into a job that is not a growing industry, probably a shrinking industry? The future of the US is in Intellectual property and services.

Construction is the first industry to get rocked in a recession but when it makes a comeback I dont see how it can continue to shrink. People will always need houses, additions, contractors, especially when the economy comes back and people start spending money on their houses again. I'm not too worried myself about making a good living in the electrical field, maybe its just where I live but construction didnt get hit as hard in Ontario as it did in the US because we didnt have the same housing collapse. First I'm guessing you guys need to unload all those houses on the market before you can think of building new ones. But the population is rapidly growing, world population is up almost a billion in the last decade which is fuking insane.

[Chris_LAMBO]

fk climbing a corporate ladder

fk working for anybody else


BOSS

[mfitty9000]

I looked up more sources
http://brassmein.com/articles/oilrig_jobs.htm

http://ezinearticles.com/?Rig-Weldin...obs&id=1948612

http://www.articlesnatch.com/topic/oil+rig+welding+jobs

None of these sources have said anything about making more than $70k a year, let alone $200k. i'm a cynical logical person, people lie, and $200k for welding seems to be unheard of except for the friend.


Exactly my point


Yes, I know. Some people believe success is making enough money to live out on their own, while some believe success is making a enough money to have everything. Some people are materialistic some people aren't.


Would you mind finding a few sources that would agree with your statement?


i aint even mad


The greatest thing about America is, if you don't have $60,000 for a vehicle, you can get a loan from a bank.

A $100 diesel oil change should get you the synthetic **** that lasts you like 9k miles. my buddy doesn't change his oil in his cummins but every 12k miles. i change mine every 6k miles with full synethetic and it costs ~$35, so it's not that much more on maintenance.

I know of doctors and surgeons in the US who have made 750k/year, even 1,000,000+/year, can you find me job ads or "averages" that show those numbers? I doubt it.

Again I didnt even read those articles but let me guess, they say something about average pay bla bla.


A heart surgeon in NYC might pull 800k, a toe surgeon in Nebraska might pull 83k. But a house in NYC might cost 1.3 million and a house in Nebraska might cost 72k.

[J_Mart2387]

I have a degree, (finance) and i say no. I feel so **** about school. Its such a fukin scam. You can def make it without a degree. You just have to work hard and smart

[Scrote]

As a graduate level student, that's not the case. It does however increase your chances of having a 'cushy' lifestyle