How difficult would it be to attract new trainers/instructors to my studio?

[KyleAaron]

And if anyone wonders why so many gyms open and close, and why there's a high turnover of staff in this industry, they can look at this thread to see why. Someone with no experience or success in the industry is arguing with people with experience and success in the industry.

I'm not sure if it happened in the US and UK, but here in Australia around 2000 every yuppie and his dog was opening a cafe. "It'll be easy, I'll just sit and drink wine with my customers." Turned out you had to know what you were doing. From about 2005 you could get pretty cheap coffee machines and kitchen fitouts from all the places that had closed.

Gyms are a bit like that now. "I'll just rent a place, put in some gear, and spend all day working out with my buddies!"

Funny story: here in Australia we have, at last count, 579 Crossfits. One company IronEdge equipped at least half of them, plus a whole stack of big gyms trying to cash in and keep their hardcore members. IronEdge got enthusiastic, expanded really fast and then... pop. The issue was that with 500+ places, even if each lasts 10 years on average, that's still 50 places a year closing. One a week. So any new Crossfit or training gym could equip itself with secondhand stuff from a place that had closed last week.

And the big box gym industry hasn't grown since 2007. It's 24hr gyms, women's gyms, and training gyms - in that order. So a wise businessperson should consider all these things before spending their money. If it's so easy, why do so many fail?

Start cautiously. Research, Ask for help from people more experienced than you - and accept their advice.

[rockangel]

Honestly, big box gyms are on the way out. Many things are going online now. I take classes online, from belly dance, to yoga to Spin with Peloton. So yeah dude, no one is going to be paying 1500 a month just to rent.

And the people paying big bux in LA or NYC are paying for the PRESTIGE and pay high prices for anything anyways.

I don't need a studio to grow my classes. All I need is a small space and a camera and I can offer classes to anyone in the world... I can train clients online as well without the need to pay overhead.... so business model is old and flawed.

[iFitnessStudio]

There have been a lot of changes in the business world recently. My background is in public accounting which includes servicing many multimillion dollar companies as well as smaller local companies.

In just the past few years there have been certain kinds of companies making thousands if not millions compared to their competitors because they took advantage of a certain technique.

As someone who is interested in fitness and not just for getting in shape, I would like to see a cultural and community change and grow around my studios mission and philosophy.

I think what you guys are experiencing is shock at the $1,500 price tag, which is not a surprise. The secret is in the business model and it's gone clearly over your heads.

[iFitnessStudio]

Also feel free to add, how DO you as personal trainers obtain more clients?

Out of the following what do you do? You market:

-Online (social media posts and personal website)
-Post business cards/flyers around town
-Word of Mouth/referrals
-Market yourself at gym paid or unpaid
-Networking events
-TV/Radio promotional ads
-Endlessly browse the classifieds and job ads

Which of the above do you use? Which has been your "moneymaker"? And also explain how well, if at all, it has worked for you. If I left any form of advertisement out, please feel free to add to your response.

[rockangel]

There have been a lot of changes in the business world recently. My background is in public accounting which includes servicing many multimillion dollar companies as well as smaller local companies.

In just the past few years there have been certain kinds of companies making thousands if not millions compared to their competitors because they took advantage of a certain technique.

As someone who is interested in fitness and not just for getting in shape, I would like to see a cultural and community change and grow around my studios mission and philosophy.

I think what you guys are experiencing is shock at the $1,500 price tag, which is not a surprise. The secret is in the business model and it's gone clearly over your heads.

Nope, sorry buddy, its not over my head, it makes no sense financially for me to do what you propose.

You don't offer enough value to my current business for me to pay you any where near that price.

First, you are saying that you will have light equipment and space. I have that already.

Second, you say its so I can increase my class sizes or group training sizes.... I have that already.

So you don't offer anything that I do not already have. What is it that you offer that I don't have that will enhance my business???

If you insist on telling me (your target audience) that I am an idiot and its "over my head" then I for sure don't see you making any money. Im the person you should be trying to sell on this idea. You should be showing me where the value lies. How will you enhance my business??? Because you haven't stated anything that I don't have.

Im not in "sticker shock", but if I already have 6 classes a week at one facility, teach my own classes out of my home, have clients handed and referred to me in person and online, and can train clients via mobile.... then your business model makes no sense for me as a trainer/instructor to pay you any amount of money for "space and light equipment".

What you propose is to make money from me but I am not benefiting....

[iFitnessStudio]

If someone tries to sell me Tesla, and I already have a Mercedes, there would be no reason for me to discredit the Tesla and tell them they "add no value".

Because that's exactly what you're doing. If it's not for you, it's not for you. No one will beg for your business, but if it's something that interests you and would benefit you, it is available. And in fact, that's what happened for years and Tesla seems to be doing exceptionally well...aren't they?

If you don't have a need to rent a studio, then feel free to move on. Others will find value in it, they will use it for it's full value and intended purpose, and they will benefit from it.

[rockangel]

If someone tries to sell me Tesla, and I already have a Mercedes, there would be no reason for me to discredit the Tesla and tell them they "add no value".

Because that's exactly what you're doing. If it's not for you, it's not for you. No one will beg for your business, but if it's something that interests you and would benefit you, it is available. And in fact, that's what happened for years and Tesla seems to be doing exceptionally well...aren't they?

If you don't have a need to rent a studio, then feel free to move on. Others will find value in it, they will use it for it's full value and intended purpose, and they will benefit from it.

That's where you are wrong my friend. I very well could have need of a training studio in the Florida area in about 18 months as we will be moving and my situation will change. So I am asking you, how do you add value if I am bringing you the clients???

Why would I chose you to rent from?
Why would I pay you 1500 bucks and charge my clients crazy prices??? (one thing I pride myself on is having reasonable rates not inflated for no reason) If I am to charge the fees you say I must charge to meet your price and continue to make money, what do you bring to the table??

As for your tesla/Mercedes analogy, it holds no water. What you offer is not the same as what I offer and have. Its more like I have a corvette and you have a kia.

[iFitnessStudio]

That's proprietary information at this point, but I'm glad you are interested. I will point out that it has a lot to do with community and branding, but that isn't necessarily what will convince you to join our team is it?

For you and anyone else interested in joining our network you are more than welcome to join. It's a new community for freelancers and online business owners to promote their work and it's completely FREE, so any early birds who join can take advantage of the network as they like before it starts to grow.

subscribe.lewisassociatescpa.com/fitness

[rockangel]

That's proprietary information at this point, but I'm glad you are interested. I will point out that it has a lot to do with community and branding, but that isn't necessarily what will convince you to join our team is it?

For you and anyone else interested in joining our network you are more than welcome to join. It's a new community for freelancers and online business owners to promote their work and it's completely FREE, so any early birds who join can take advantage of the network as they like before it starts to grow.

subscribe.lewisassociatescpa.com/fitness

Yeah, I looked at your website, still don't know what you do or offer. and hiding behind "proprietary secrets" is BS. I'm not handing you over my info, you want my qualifications, its on my site, open for all to see.

What I still fail to see is what you offer and why I should join. I have affiliates, ive done guest blogs, what do you offer in this community???

By the way, this is the worst salesmanship I have ever seen. I value honesty and being able to be straight forward in my business dealings. You are hiding, blowing smoke, and not offering anything of actual value.

What would convince me would be you being real and straight, owning up to what you offer, how you can add value to my business, how you can add value to my clients, and how this would make me better in any way.

Right now I see a flawed business model that's has no basis in the industry and now "proprietary info" secrets and smoke screens and something about branding (yours?? mine?? ours???) and community (for what???)

[iFitnessStudio]

What I still fail to see is what you offer and why I should join. I have affiliates, ive done guest blogs, what do you offer in this community???

It's because you are being a conventional thinker. I have seen what works and what doesn't work and the changes that will be coming in the next several years for businesses and entrepreneurs around the world. That knowledge is from years of 60+ hour work weeks sitting in an office, traveling to clients, and paying my dues. That's why it's proprietary.

You asked what we do or what have I offered? I've mentioned that I will be offering trainers an opportunity to rent a professional studio. In this thread, I've also offered a free platform for trainers and online business owners to promote and advertise their work.

That is all I have to offer at this point. What you would like to do with it is completely up to you. If you're not interested, someone else will be and they will take advantage of it.

[rockangel]

It's because you are being a conventional thinker. I have seen what works and what doesn't work and the changes that will be coming in the next several years for businesses and entrepreneurs around the world. That knowledge is from years of 60+ hour work weeks sitting in an office, traveling to clients, and paying my dues. That's why it's proprietary.

You asked what we do or what have I offered? I've mentioned that I will be offering trainers an opportunity to rent a professional studio. In this thread, I've also offered a free platform for trainers and online business owners to promote and advertise their work.

That is all I have to offer at this point. What you would like to do with it is completely up to you. If you're not interested, someone else will be and they will take advantage of it.

Ok, got it. So you offer a space and a platform, which literally thousands of other people offer, so nothing new to see. great.

[iFitnessStudio]

PS I'm not here to sell you on the idea. So I'd imagine salesmanship wouldn't be a factor. My original question was to gauge the interest in fitness trainers renting a studio, and I've gotten a bit of feedback in this thread and will use the information accordingly. Also how do you sell access to a FREE community? You either join and take advantage of it or you don't.

I can tell you that we've offered rewards and gift cards in the past, but that's not what we're doing right now. Other than that, I'm not sure what to tell ya, but I do wish you the best of luck with your business and training.

When I am ready to "sell" anyone on the idea, I will be happy to let you guys know it.

[iFitnessStudio]

Ok, got it. So you offer a space and a platform, which literally thousands of other people offer, so nothing new to see. great.

Thousands of people in any particular area don't have this to offer. More like a handful or 10-20 locations max in a community. And how many of these are suitable for fitness or group training? Maybe 5-10.

Out of those 5-10 how many of those are niched for fitness or regular group training? Maybe 1-2.

Out of those 1-2 how many have found success and are doing it properly as their primary form of business? 0.

*Edit: In addition, for every 10-20 gyms or fitness centers out there, how many personal trainers are out there looking for a job and are without a sufficient place to train or have difficulty growing and obtaining clients?

I'd say that number is closer to "thousands".

[KyleAaron]

You've tried deleting posts, and now tried deleting this thread. This thread has discussion and information of interest to trainers and would-be gym owners generally, you don't get to delete it just because you didn't like the answers you got.

[KyleAaron]

Honestly, big box gyms are on the way out.

I don't think they're on their way out, but I do think they won't grow. As I said, the growth since 2007 has been in 1. 24hr gyms, 2. women's gyms and 3. training gyms (mostly crossfits).

In the big box gym you get

• around 1/6 of the people being cheaparses who never go, and
• 1/6 hardcore types who want to be pushed so will do bootcamps and PT and stuff, and
• 2/3 the rest who'll go to the occasional class but mostly just walk on the treadmill reading magazines or get a pump with some light dumbbells, get a programme every now and then and not follow it, but still get a motivational pump-up from having talked to a trainer

So the first 1/6 have mostly gone to the unstaffed 24hr gyms - they don't need to pay for a service they'll never use, and at (here in Oz) $14 a fortnight (vs $50 or so for staffed gyms) even if they don't go they won't bother cancelling their direct debit.

The second 1/6 have gone to Crossfits, outdoor bootcamps, and various black iron gyms.

The middle 2/3 are those who remain, except a chunk of the women have gone to the women's gyms. So big box gyms can still have a go at 1/2 the overall market they could have in 2007. But the market overall is larger - more people generally are going to gyms of whatever kind, and a LOT more older people are going.

So there's still a good market for big box gyms. Where they have trouble is where they try to be like the 24hr gyms by going cheap (race to the bottom, toss away staff) or be like Crossfit and have some sort of clone class in there, which they never do well, it's always ugly. Their strength is the middle of the road types, and they can do really well by targetting older people. If they don't, someone will start a chain for older folk - like Fernwood or Curves, call it WrinkleFit or something.

But to attract that middle 2/3 market, you need to have permanent staff. If you want the middle-of-the-road women then you've got to have group fitness classes, and if you want older folk the place has to be clean, and they fear hurting themselves and losing function further, so you have to have staff around on the gym floor. If you decide that group classes aren't worth the money and don't have staff then the women and the older folk won't stay, and the young men will eventually leave for the 24hr unstaffed gyms, too. And if you charge staff rent to be there, they won't stick around reliably, and will be reluctant to help people unless they're getting paid. I mean, the newbie trainers will stick around 0600-2100 for a bit, but after a few weeks the novelty wears off and they stop coming in all the time, so you're unstaffed.

So the big box gym does still have a role, but it has to be run well.

[401Delta]

I would like to officially open a fitness studio in my area, but have very little idea of the market demand for this.

This is the only thing you've posted that I agree with.

[jwarrenfit]

1500 a month is ridiculous. The average rate is between $500-900 tops for renting space and I'm in one of the most expensive areas in the country.

[Ronin4help]

You are missing the whole point. But that's okay. More business opportunity for me. Thanks for all the input.

Income. This is the only point to be made. Trainers are not going to give you that much of their income. If you try this idea of yours, you will fail miserably. Plain and simple. But you may not mind failing because I am certain your stubbornness has cost you money before.

[Photoglady]

There is a studio in Chicago that fits your model. so its possible, just not at that price point. I'm not sure how successful this studio is, as it has had its 3rd name change in 4 years but the concept still remains.

http://symmetrychicago.com/train-together/

[Ronin4help]

There is a studio in Chicago that fits your model. so its possible, just not at that price point. I'm not sure how successful this studio is, as it has had its 3rd name change in 4 years but the concept still remains.

http://symmetrychicago.com/train-together/

The 'price point' IS his model.

[KyleAaron]

There is a studio in Chicago that fits your model. so its possible, just not at that price point. I'm not sure how successful this studio is, as it has had its 3rd name change in 4 years but the concept still remains.

So owners last about 16 months and then bail. This actually shows what we've been saying.

If it's going to fold, 12-18 months is a very typical time for a business to last before it folds. It takes them that long to figure out that not only are they not making money, but they never will. Or rather, most have figured it out after 6-9 months, but they take another 3-6 months to decide what to do and another 3-6 months to sell it. Faced with changing their approach or selling their business, they sell.

That particular place also has several male trainers, and only one woman. That's a bad sign about the culture of the place.

[rockangel]

I don't think they're on their way out, but I do think they won't grow.
So the big box gym does still have a role, but it has to be run well.

Perhaps I should have quantified and elaborated a bit.

I think the big box model as we have known it is out. You cant just do what this guy is planning on doing, throw some light equipment and basic staff out and expect people to pay big money and flock to your facility. There are SOOOOOO many more options now on the market, especially with the online formats.

If you are going to open a big box, it has to have clear direction on your demographics (all that you mentioned) and it needs to be ran well. The issue I see is that mostly, big boxes are not run well. Too many are run by corporations that don't care and just want money, or by people who THINK there is money in it yet don't have the first clue how to run a gym. Ive worked for many different kinds of gyms, ive had my own set up, and I now work for the DoD (which is a beast of its own).

I do believe the industry is changing and many things are going online. Like I said, since I cant take classes here (since I teach them all, lol) I tend to take my classes online. Plus ive toyed with hosting my own online classes as well. Grad school has sorta sucked up a lot of my free time though. And I am seeing more of the "bigger" names in the industry doing much more online group/personal trainings as well. So I don't believe PT's need 2200 sq feet of space and need to pay big bucks to rent out somewhere when a lot of clients can be found online.

There has also been an uptick in "specialty" studios, though I think long term they are more risky as they rely on trends to keep them going. The industry can be fickle.

And my usual clientele in the states, doesn't necessarily like to be in a big box gym. A lot of my clientele liked that I could train them in my small personal studio or bring my stuff to their home. And I like the flexibility of that set up as well.

Of course, my situation changes every 3 - 4 years being married to the military, so what I had last year is definitely not the same as this year and wont be the same in 18 months.

And I agree with you about the older demographic. Even here, I am getting older clients with all kinds of medical issues (usually joint related). My classes and trainings are becoming more centered around improving movement and dealing with these issues where prior I have been mostly dealing with weight loss or muscle building goals.

[iFitnessStudio]

So I ended up leasing a space and we are currently building out the interior and waiting for our equipment to arrive.

We already have 3 personal trainers who are "renting" the studio on an annual contract, which works out to about $1,250 per month (discounted).

These 3 trainers alone will account for $3,750 revenue per month. Our lease payment is $1,500 for 2,000 sq. ft.

Each trainer gets the gym for 2 hours a day, 3 days a week. That leaves plenty of opportunity for other personal trainers to come on board as well, without conflict.

From two weeks of campaigning, our membership base has already surpassed 100 members. So looks like these 3 trainers will have their hands full. At $1,250 per month, all they need to do is convert 2-3 clients to their own personal training services @ $400-$500 each and they are SET, especially considering that many of their converts will be recurring clients.

[KyleAaron]

100 members will mean 3 PT clients on average. So far, 1 trainer may be able to cover their rent.

So each trainer will need 3 clients from 100 members to cover their rent. I don't know the cost of living where you are, but let's say they aim for $2k per month after that, that'll be 4-5 more clients. That's 4-5 clients from 150 more members per trainer. Thus, each trainer, if they get 3% of members at $400-$500 a month each, will need 7-8 clients from 250 members to pay the rent and make $2k on top of that.

You need 750 members to support 3 PTs doing 7-8 clients, paying you the $1,250 rent and earning $2k per month after that.

This will take them time, since they're likely to get 1 new client a month on average. It'll take them 3 months just to be able to pay the rent, in the 4th month they'll break even, and it'll take 8-9 months for them to hit the $2k a month income. Experienced and outgoing trainers can exceed that, but those are probably not the sort who will do a rental agreement. Now you see why the big rental gym chains have the initial months with some sort of reduced rent.

[iFitnessStudio]

100 members will mean 3 PT clients on average. So far, 1 trainer may be able to cover their rent.

I agree and appreciate most of what you said, however, I think this part would be true if it were a traditional big box gym.

You need 750 members to support 3 PTs doing 7-8 clients, paying you the $1,250 rent and earning $2k per month after that.

750 members *for a big box gym. In our case, we are a specialized studio and have a different marketing technique to engage our members and encourage them to pursue private sessions with our trainers. 200-300 members would be sufficient and a great goal for us to maintain. I think it is likely we can far surpass that within a few months though.

Keep in mind we are just a 2,000 sq. ft. studio, not a big box gym with all the machines and equipment.

There are about 8-10 other studios within about 10 miles that others would consider "competitors".

However, we would not be considered competitors, we would be considered more like Partners or Marketing Affiliates. You pay us $XXX in rent, and you have access to our membership base, preferred advertisement package, and the opportunity to convert.

For example, there is a pilates studio across town. They might give 10-20 free sessions per month to allow a new potential client to make a decision to join them. Out of those 10-20 they might convert 25%-50%...which is great.

If they really want to expand, they can pay us $1,500 rent which should realistically be thought of as a marketing expense for them. This $1,500 gives them access to over 200+ members, 2 hours a day, 3 days a week, plus special advertisement promotions with us. For that month they've paid us rent, they will basically have their studio, and a satellite studio (our studio) to operate out of. Great opportunity for growth, in my opinion, at a very reasonable fee.

[AutistTrigger]

Go invest in a gym franchise like Snap Fitness. You could hire a trainer / co - manager to attract clients. Or you could buy a commercial building and rent space to a variety of people.

[KyleAaron]

I agree and appreciate most of what you said, however, I think this part would be true if it were a traditional big box gym.

A well-run small gym will have a higher PT proportion, it's true. This comes from good systems in the front desk and gym staff, and from community, since it's easier to have community with 300 people than 3,000.

But it's not clear you'll have good systems with the front desk staff, and with rentals the PTs never do, since they just wander in when they feel like it, etc. Community depends on so many factors, nobody really knows how to create it, and a lot of it's luck.

However, this higher proportion of people doing PT still won't exceed 7% or so even in the most community-feeling, well-run gym. So you still need hundreds more members.

2,000sqft can be plenty if used well. Normally 200 would be your max, but if instead of the usual random circuit bullsht your trainers have a training system - whether Starting Strength, RKC, TRX or whatever - you could get it up to 400 without hitting overcrowding level.

Your competitor isn't the nearby gyms, it's the couch. Only about 1/6 of people are members of a gym or sports team. Around 1/6 will never do anything, they're too old or lazy; the 90yo in the nursing home or the 35yo morbidly obese guy on his mobility scooter, or the 45yo endlessly complaining of imaginary ailments like fibromyalgia, they'll never be a member. But there's 2/3 of the population who are physically able to do something but never have since school. Don't aim at the 1/6 already in a gym, that's just Gym Member Pass The Parcel, eventually it shrinks to nothing and reveals only a little plastic toy; aim at the 2/3 who've never been. Don't take a slice of someone else's pie, grow the pie.

[Ronin4help]

So I ended up leasing a space and we are currently building out the interior and waiting for our equipment to arrive.

We already have 3 personal trainers who are "renting" the studio on an annual contract, which works out to about $1,250 per month (discounted).

These 3 trainers alone will account for $3,750 revenue per month. Our lease payment is $1,500 for 2,000 sq. ft.

Each trainer gets the gym for 2 hours a day, 3 days a week. That leaves plenty of opportunity for other personal trainers to come on board as well, without conflict.

From two weeks of campaigning, our membership base has already surpassed 100 members. So looks like these 3 trainers will have their hands full. At $1,250 per month, all they need to do is convert 2-3 clients to their own personal training services @ $400-$500 each and they are SET, especially considering that many of their converts will be recurring clients.

Let me get this straight... You not only 'found' one trainer dumb enough to agree to pay your whole rent (essentially), but you found two more? Are we really supposed to believe this horse sh*t?

You are a f*cking idiot. This whole thing is a waste of everyone's time because it is all one big lie.

[KyleAaron]

I believe he found three qualified PTs who said they'd pay him $1,250 a month each.

Now, whether these trainers are actually outgoing, competent and experienced, and whether they'll actually be able to pay him past the first month - those are other questions.

But lots of trainers worldwide sign rental contracts as dumb as this every day, Ronin. Just stand outside a PT school on graduation day and watch the enthusiastic 19 year olds who've never lifted, run or played sports, come pouring out wide-eyed. I mean, I've had PTs like that ask to rent time in my double garage gym, for fck's sakes. I said no, because a man's got to have a code.

[Ronin4help]

This is probably the funniest thing you wrote!! It's like something a 8 year old would say because he doesn't realize how ridiculous it sounds...

"From two weeks of campaigning, our membership base has already surpassed 100 members."

Two weeks of campaigning????? What the f*ck does that mean?? Campaigning what exactly? Empty office space??? Why the f*ck would even 1 person agree to join a club he has not seen or knows what it's going to look like, let alone 100?? THERE'S NO EQUIPMENT!!!

Is this what you do all day? Just make up stories and go around telling people so you seem like a big shot?