I absolutely love Meadow's rows. I need to start doing them more on my OHP day. Matter of fact I'll be hitting them tomorrow for my pull movement
I've always been interested in Conjugate training but I figured I don't have most of the equipment necessary to even attempt to run it, let alone that program IQ on how to even set it all up.
That's awesome that it's working out really well for you and the gains you've made from it thus far speak for themselves.
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Thread: The Flywheel Effect.
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01-16-2021, 04:55 PM #541
- Join Date: Jul 2007
- Location: Beaverton, Oregon, United States
- Posts: 37,261
- Rep Power: 158721
My training log: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=178464441
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01-16-2021, 05:21 PM #542
Good stuff CW. I've thought about the Meadows row but need a place to stick my barbell. Living room is kinda tight.
That hack squat really looks like a deadlift, and there's some lower back rounding. Are you supposed to be more upright?
I love the wide stance snatch grip DL, I call it medium stance.
Gliding ham curl, Are you pulling yourself all the way forward, hams touching calves?Once upon a time (maxes 2020) ...
Squat 185, Bench 137, DL 205, @ bw 88.5 age 43
Workout Journal: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175647011&p=1630928323&viewfull=1#post1630928323
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01-16-2021, 05:34 PM #543
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01-16-2021, 05:56 PM #544
If you ever decide to give it a try, let me know. I've created a template that makes the programming pretty straight forward. I'd say that some parts of the program are better with things like bands and/or chains (primarily the speed work). But I really don't think it's necessary. Variation can be built in through things as simple of different grip/stance widths, tempos, rep ranges, etc. I have a spreadsheet I've created with a log template, lists of exercises with video links, and some graphs that allow me to track progress over time. I'm happy to share it if you, or anyone else, are ever interested.
The Flywheel Effect - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=172103043
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01-16-2021, 06:06 PM #545
You're both totally right on the Hack Squat. And that's why I'm not sold on it (for myself personally) as a max effort exercise, and think it's probably better suited for higher rep work. My form changed on it as it got heavier, simply because that was the way I could get the weight up.
I do those deads with my feet somewhere between the width of my Conventional and Sumo stance. So from that standpoint it's more of a medium stance, yes. But looking at it as a conventional style deadlift, it's quite a lot wider than I would typically do (feet almost twice as far apart). But I think there's a fair amount of variability in stance width that can work just fine on this lift. I should probably just call it the Candito Deadlift, lol.
On the Ham Curl, Hams were not touching calves, so I wasn't going far enough then - good to know. I will do a fuller range of motion next time around.The Flywheel Effect - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=172103043
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01-16-2021, 07:07 PM #546
- Join Date: Jul 2007
- Location: Beaverton, Oregon, United States
- Posts: 37,261
- Rep Power: 158721
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01-16-2021, 07:34 PM #547
I think the best way for me to lay it out is to break it down by Max Effort, Dynamic Effort, and Accessory work, since they each have their own setup/cycles. Then I'll pull it all together to show what it looks like. I'll lay it out over the course of a few posts, rather than doing one massive post.
My log is setup to run in 12 week cycles. Max Effort days are programmed in 6 week cycles. Competition Squat and Bench Press are done on the first week of each 6 week cycle. These, along with the Competition Deadlift done in week 2, are the primary reference point I use to tell if I'm making progress. I'll use my performance in these to tell me whether the programming in my previous cycle was effective.
Max Lower: This is essentially a 6 week rotation, with the exercises being very similar, but slightly different on the second 6 weeks.
Week 1 - Competition Squat
Week 2 - Competition Deadlift
Week 3 - Front/Zercher/Hack Squat
Week 4 - Non-Competition Deadlift Variation
Week 5 - Box/Pin Squat
Week 6 - Rack Pull/Block Pull
Week 7 - Competition Squat
Week 8 - Wide Grip Deadlift
Week 9 - Squat w/Band/Chain
Week 10 - Deficit Deadlift
Week 11 - Paused Squat
Week 12 - Deadlift w/Band/Chain
Max Upper: As with the Max Lower, this is a 6 week rotation. Here the exercises are exactly the same for each 6 weeks cycle. I can/will add in variation by using different grip widths, so that each cycle isn't exactly the same.
Week 1 - Competition Bench Press
Week 2 - Incline Bench Press
Week 3 - Close Grip Bench Press
Week 4 - Bench Press w/Band/Chain
Week 5 - Specialty Bar
Week 6 - Floor/Board/Pin Press
Week 7 - Competition Bench Press
Week 8 - Incline Bench Press
Week 9 - Close Grip Bench Press
Week 10 - Bench Press w/Band/Chain
Week 11 - Specialty Bar
Week 12 - Floor/Board/Pin PressThe Flywheel Effect - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=172103043
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01-16-2021, 07:47 PM #548
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01-16-2021, 08:02 PM #549
Dynamic Effort - Lower: I do both a Squat and a Deadlift variation on this day. I do the same lift for 3 consecutive weeks, increasing weight each week. I initially used set percentages, but quickly found that it did not work, so I'm now picking my weights based entirely upon previous experience. You need to be able to move the weight very fast, so if bar speed is slowed at all it is too heavy for Dynamic work.
Week 1-3 Squat - 12 inch Box Squat
Week 1-3 Dead - Any Deadlift Variant
Week 4-6 Squat - 16 inch Box Squat
Week 4-6 Dead - Any Deadlift Variant
Week 7-9 Squat - 20 inch Box Squat
Week 7-9 Dead - Any Deadlift Variant
Week 10-12 Squat - 16 inch Box Squat
Week 10-12 Dead - Any Deadlift Variant
While weight increases weekly, reps decrease weekly. Here are some examples of how I wave these. Keep in mind that, as I mentioned above, I no longer use percentages - this is just to provide an example and potential starting point.
Dynamic Squat
Week 1 = 12 sets x 2 reps @55%
Week 2 = 10 sets x 2 reps @60%
Week 3 = 8 sets x 2 reps @65%
Dynamic Deadlift
Week 1 = 10 sets x 2 reps @65%
Week 2 = 8 sets x 2 reps @70%
Week 3 = 6 sets x 2 reps @75%
Dynamic Effort - Upper: This is much more straight forward. I'll pick a Bench Press variation, usually trying to target a weak point, and do it for 3 weeks. Just as with the Dynamic Lower work, weight increases weekly. However, I keep the sets and reps the same each week (9 sets of 3). Again, the percentages listed are only a guide, and should be adjusted as needed to assure fast bar speed. I almost always use bands or chains for this, but it's not a requirement.
Dynamic Bench
Week 1 = 9 sets of 3 @45%
Week 2 = 9 sets of 3 @50%
Week 3 = 9 sets of 3 @55%Last edited by CW47; 01-16-2021 at 09:25 PM.
The Flywheel Effect - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=172103043
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01-16-2021, 08:24 PM #550
Accessory/Supplemental Work: I have a slightly different template I use on each day of the week, but it repeats indefinitely. I change exercises every 3 weeks. They can certainly be changes more or less frequently, but every 3 weeks seems to work best for me. It's also worth mentioning that I wave the set/rep ranges over a 12 weeks cycle, but keep in mind that this is still very much experimental, and I've nowhere near enough experience to say that my setup is even decent, much less ideal.
Max Lower:
Weeks 1-3 = 3 sets x 12 reps
Weeks 4-6 = 4 sets x 8 reps
Weeks 7-9 = 5 sets x 5 reps
Weeks 10-12 = 7 sets x 3 reps
Compound Squat or Dead focused lift - 5 sets x 5 reps (this is the one exception when it comes to waving set/rep ranges - I do not change the set/rep scheme on my primary compound Supplemental exercise)
Glute/Ham
Low Back
Lats
Max Upper:
Weeks 1-3 = 2 sets x 12 reps
Weeks 4-6 = 3 sets x 10 reps
Weeks 7-9 = 4 sets x 6 reps
Weeks 10-12 = 6 sets x 4 reps
Compound Press - 5 sets x 5 reps
Triceps
Back/Lats
Shoulders
Abs
Dynamic Lower:
Weeks 1-3 = 2 sets x 12 reps
Weeks 4-6 = 3 sets x 10 reps
Weeks 7-9 = 4 sets x 6 reps
Weeks 10-12 = 6 sets x 4 reps
Glute/Ham
Low Back
Lats
Dynamic Upper:
Weeks 1-3 = 3 sets x 15 reps
Weeks 4-6 = 3 sets x 12 reps
Weeks 7-9 = 4 sets x 8 reps
Weeks 10-12 = 5 sets x 5 reps
Compound Press - 5 sets x 5 reps
Triceps
Back/Lat
Shoulders
Abs
I fairly regularly will drop off a body part if I have another with carryover that will hit it. Low Back and Lats, and Shoulder and Triceps both tend to have a lot of carryover, so I'll often drop one of those.Last edited by CW47; 01-16-2021 at 09:28 PM.
The Flywheel Effect - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=172103043
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01-16-2021, 09:24 PM #551
So then, I'll use my current week as an example of how all of this is pulled together. For reference, I'm in week 3 of my 12 weeks cycle.
Saturday - Max Lower
Max Effort - Hack Squat (1 rep max attempt)
Compound Lift - Wide Stance Snatch Grip Deadlift - 5 sets x 5 reps
Glute/Ham - Gliding Leg Curl - 3 sets x 12 reps
Low Back - (Dropped since I'm already doing a lot of low back work) - would be 3 sets x 12 reps
Lats - Meadows Row - 3 sets x 12 reps
Sunday - Max Upper
Max Effort - Close Grip Bench Press (1 rep max attempt)
Compound Press - Floor Press - 5 sets x 5 reps
Triceps - Close Grip Bench Press w/2 board - 2 sets x 12 reps
Back/Lats - Face Pull - 2 sets x 12 reps (I will probably do these for higher reps though)
Shoulders - DB Shoulder Press - 2 sets x 12 reps
Abs - Ab Wheel - 2 sets x 12 reps
Tuesday - Dynamic Lower
12 inch Box Squat - 8 sets x 2 reps @60% (Speed Work)
Conventional Deadlift - 6 sets x 2 reps @75% (Speed Work)
Glute/Ham - 16 inch Step Up - 2 sets x 12 reps
Low Back - (Dropped) - would be 2 sets x 12 reps
Lats - Bent Row - 2 sets x 12 reps
Wednesday - Dynamic Upper
Bench Press w/Mini Band - 9 sets x 3 reps @55% (Speed Work)
Compound Press - Seated Press w/Trap Bar - 5 sets x 5 reps
Triceps - Incline Skull Crusher - 2 sets x 15 reps
Back/Lats - Kroc Row - 2 sets x 15 reps
Shoulders - (Dropped) - would be 2 sets x 15 reps
Abs - Hanging Knee Raise - 3xAMRAPThe Flywheel Effect - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=172103043
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01-16-2021, 10:14 PM #552
Attaching my spreadsheet. It wasn't exactly designed to be user friendly, so if anyone uses this feel free to reach out to me with any questions you may have on how to use it.
There's a tab with a generic 'Log Template', which lays out all of the information I've posted above in a very easy to understand way (I think).
I have 2 different sections for Tracking. One is specifically for Max Effort Lifts, and the other is for everything else. I have graphs setup on the tab for Max Effort, and if you use this you'll have to refresh the data as you add it in order to have it show up in the graphs. This can be done by going to the 'Data' tab and clicking on 'Refresh All'. I haven't setup graphs for the Submax Tracking section yet, but that should be doable if someone wanted it - I primarily created this tab as an easy way to check previous bests on each exercise and rep range, rather than having to dig through paper logs.
If you want to add or change options in the 'Dropdowns' (these are the selectable categories in the Tracking tabs), you should be able to do so. But like I said, let me know if you have any issues with it and I'll try to help out.
There's an 'Overview' tab which can be used to plan out a full 12 week cycle.
I also have tabs for 'Exercises', which includes a list of some that I knew I could do with the equipment I have available - these all include YouTube links as well.
And finally there is an 'Accessory Rankings' tab which can be used to rank accessory lifts as you learn which work well for you and which don't.The Flywheel Effect - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=172103043
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01-17-2021, 10:05 AM #553
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01-17-2021, 01:22 PM #554
Yeah, I knew that if I was going to do my own programming of Conjugate I would need to understand the system reasonably well. I watched a lot of videos and read a lot of articles on it. The interesting thing about it to me is that it's fundamentally an incredibly simple system. It's probably the simplest system I've ever used. And I think that's what makes it difficult for people to wrap their brains around. We like structure, and the conjugate system doesn't use much structure. Essentially what is says is to do max or near max work every week for upper and lower body, do speed work once per week for each (even this isn't seen as necessary by many), and then add in supplemental work as needed.
I've built a bunch of structure into it because I fundamentally lack the experience and understanding to truly run the program as intuitively as it's designed to be run. I expect that over time I will use less and less structure. I'm gradually moving that direction already. The structure makes it more complicated in some ways, but also takes a lot of the ambiguity out of it. I hope that anyone who attempts this style of programming will use what I've created only as an initial starting point.The Flywheel Effect - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=172103043
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01-17-2021, 01:52 PM #555
January 17, 2021 - Max Upper
Surprisingly, I have doms in my hamstrings today. I suppose it could be partially from the Candito Deadlifts, but I'd guess it's mostly from the gliding ham curls (good sign that they were more effective than I thought). Not feeling anything in my quads, which reinforces what I already knew - that I didn't do the barbell hack squats correctly. I'll have to be focused on doing them correctly next time I try them on a Max Effort day. I'll be sure to program them for some rep work between now and then.
Close Grip Bench Press
180 pounds x 1 rep
Previous PR was 155 pounds, at the beginning of September. Obviously a huge improvement on that, which was expected. But I'm super surprised that I beat out my best ever competition Bench Press of 175. One thing I know I've improved enormously over the last couple of weeks is my grip, getting the bar sitting in the right position in my hands, and having my wrists straighter as a result of that. It's amazing how much difference this has made for me. I'm eager to see where my competition bench ends up next time I test it. Hoping to hit 185, and based upon today that should be totally possible.
Floor Press
140 pounds - 5 sets x 5 reps
Grip is also helping here. When I started out at 125 3 weeks ago, I wasn't sure I'd even be able to do a 5x5 at 130 in the coming weeks. I obviously was able to, and the reps today were easier than they were at 125.
Close Grip Bench w/2 Board
115 pounds - 2 sets x 12 reps
Face Pull
Mini Band - 3 sets x 20 reps
DB Shoulder Press
75 pounds (37.5's) - 2 sets x 12 reps
These were a true 10 RPE on the final rep of the final set. Barely completed it.
Kneeling Ab Wheel
3 sets x 12 reps
I'm going to feel this tomorrow...
Video shows the Close Grip Bench rep at 180.
The Flywheel Effect - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=172103043
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01-18-2021, 06:36 AM #556
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01-19-2021, 06:43 AM #557
- Join Date: Jan 2015
- Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
- Posts: 7,677
- Rep Power: 61357
OK. Looks good!.
I have a few suggestions for when you get to your next phase. If you are interested ofc.
I see some deffinate places you could be tightening up the programming and bringing it up to a better output.
And fukkin lol at hack squats...
I CANNOT get the bar past my knee cos my hammies are chonk and my arms are not long 😂FMH crew - Couch.
'pick a program from the stickies' = biggest cop out post.
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01-19-2021, 09:42 AM #558
Thank you sir!
Yeah, I can't take them too seriously, but they're fun to throw in here and there.
I'm 100% open to suggestions!
I have no doubt that my programming has a LOT of room for improvement, and I'm happy to take input from you and others that are knowledgeable and experienced.The Flywheel Effect - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=172103043
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01-19-2021, 04:28 PM #559
January 19, 2021 - Dynamic Lower
12 inch Box Squat
135 pounds - 8 sets x 2 reps
The low box squats are always a challenge for me because they're right at or just below the bottom of my normal squat. The reps today were relatively smooth and fast, considering.
Conventional Deadlift
250 pounds - 6 sets x 2 reps
This was light and fast. Setup is definitely getting better because the bar was breaking the floor when I was pulling the slack out. I shot video of the fifth set, which can be seen at the end of the post.
Step Ups - 16 inch box
60 pounds - 2 sets x 12 reps
Bent Row
130 pounds - 2 sets x 12 reps
Dynamic Effort Deadlift at 250 pounds:
The Flywheel Effect - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=172103043
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01-20-2021, 05:20 AM #560
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01-20-2021, 05:57 PM #561
Making progress is definitely more fun than the alternative.
January 20, 2021 - Dynamic Upper
Banded Bench Press
105 pounds + mini band - 9 sets x 3 reps
This was right on the edge of being too heavy for speed work. Still felt pretty good though.
Seated Shoulder Press w/Trap Bar
95 pounds - 5 sets x 5 reps
It was good that I took video from the back for the first time in a while, because I was able to see that I'm not pressing straight. I'm favoring my right side as I get fatigued. I'll have to be more cognizant of this in the future, and focus on keeping the movement straight up and straight down.
Incline Skull Crusher
55 pounds - 2 sets x 12 reps
I was supposed to do sets of 15, but struggled even to get the 12 per set. No matter though. I'd rather have done the 12 with decent form than to force up 15 with poor form.
Kroc Row
75 pounds - 2 sets x 15 reps
These are feeling so good. As I increase the weight each time, I feel that good burn in my back more and more.
Video shows 2 sets of the Trap Bar Press - 1 from the side and 1 from the back.
The Flywheel Effect - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=172103043
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01-23-2021, 02:54 PM #562
January 23, 2021 - Max Lower
Energy was low. My workout drug out to nearly 2 hours because of pretty long rest periods.
Conventional Deadlift
365 pounds x 1 rep
Grip failed at lockout, but I'm calling it good for a 10 pound PR. 375 might have been there with straps, but it can wait. I also included a rep at 345 in the video below. It came up pretty easily.
Paused Squat
115 pounds - 5 sets x 5 reps
These are really a challenge for me. Which means I need to do them more regularly. I struggle to get into good position at the bottom without losing my balance. I struggle to stay tight at the bottom. I struggle to start the weight moving up again after the pause. I played around with stance width and found that it's infinitely easier for me to get into a good bottom position with a wider stance, but I'm also significantly weaker that way. Lots of work to do here.
Seated Hamstring Curl w/band
Mini Band - 4 sets x 8 reps
Watch the video below to see how I'm doing these. This exercise is definitely a keeper. It felt great.
Yates Row
115 pounds - 4 sets x 8 reps
I should be able to significantly increase the weight on this over the coming weeks. Started out low since I've not done this exercise before.
Video shows the following in order: Conventional Deadlift - 345 x 1 --> 365 x 1. Seated Hamstring Curl with Mini Band.
The Flywheel Effect - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=172103043
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01-24-2021, 06:33 AM #563
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01-24-2021, 10:27 AM #564
Do you think grip strength may be holding you back? It's totally possible you would have ripped 365 off of the ground much faster if your grip was stronger. Your body knows to slow itself down if it would break your grip otherwise
Best lifts:
Bench press: 315x4, 345x1
Squat: 465x1
Strict press: 185x8, 195x5, 215x1
Deadlift: 405x13 (conv tap'n'go with straps)
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01-24-2021, 10:57 AM #565
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01-24-2021, 12:40 PM #566
It probably can't continue forever, but it's a ton of fun for the moment.
Yes, for sure grip strength is holding me back a little bit. I'm definitely easing on the pressure off the ground rather than going full force, and that's bound to impact my speed, and therefore ability to compete lifts.
I have straps, and I'm not at all opposed to using them. I've no plan to ever complete, so ultimately grip isn't a big deal. I just prefer using a hook or mixed grip over straps when I can (because I like the feeling of the bar in my hands), and I didn't expect to have an issue on this day. Was taken by surprise by it a little bit.
Thanks man. Finding opportunities for improvement is still pretty easy for me, because there are so many of them, lmao! I've made huge improvements on technique over the last 9 months. I'm glad they're evident. Thank you for recognizing and mentioning that.The Flywheel Effect - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=172103043
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01-24-2021, 12:56 PM #567
I used to be a perma strapper and recently stopped using them for deadlifts. I stopped because I felt they were actually hurting my deadlift because of the extra time I had to spend hunched down getting them setup. Plus I think my forearms were underdeveloped. I kinda regret ever using them for deadlifts tbh
"static holds" seemed to have a huge impact on my grip strength if you want to try them. Basically get a heavy barbell in your squat rack just beneath lockout, then pick it up and hold it for as long as possible for one "set". Pretty easy to incorporate into an existing training plan because its only training your gripBest lifts:
Bench press: 315x4, 345x1
Squat: 465x1
Strict press: 185x8, 195x5, 215x1
Deadlift: 405x13 (conv tap'n'go with straps)
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01-24-2021, 01:05 PM #568
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01-24-2021, 01:40 PM #569
Cheers guys. That is great feedback! I actually have paused deadlifts planned for my next workout, lol. First time I've ever done them. I can definitely see how they would help with grip, even though that's not the reason I programmed them. I'll see what kind of impact they have, and then consider adding in some static holds as well.
The Flywheel Effect - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=172103043
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01-24-2021, 01:41 PM #570
January 24, 2021 - Max Upper
Banded Bench Press
135 pounds + Lite Band (Orange) x 1 rep
First time maxing out with a Lite Band. This time I could tell that with the way I have the bands setup they are adding around an extra 40-45 pounds of tension each at the top of the lift. I could tell this because it was just on the verge of pulling the 45 pound weight I use to stabilize it off of the ground, and I had to add some extra weights on top of them to keep them from moving. I had to attempt the lift twice. On the first attempt I did a slight pause at the bottom and then was only able to get the bar up a couple of inches. On the second attempt it was more of a touch and go. I'll need to add in some exercises to build strength off my chest more regularly (Spoto Press, Paused Bench, Pin Press, Larsen Press, etc.).
Dumbbell Bench Press
120 pounds (60's) - 5 sets x 5 reps
These were more of a challenge than I expected. Not sure I'll be able to increase weight the next 2 weeks, but we'll see.
Swede Crushers
65 pounds - 1 sets x 6 reps
45 pounds - 2 sets x 10 reps
Was shooting for 3 sets of 10 here, but started out too heavy. Probably didn't do them quite right, so I'll keep working on it.
T-Bar Row
85 Pounds - 3 sets x 10 reps
Landmine Press
70 pounds - 3 sets x 10 reps
First time ever doing these. I like them a lot. Probably went a little bit too heavy since I had several reps that turned into grinders. Still, they felt great.
Decline Crunch
3 sets x 12 reps
Video shows just the top rep (135 pounds) of banded bench press.
The Flywheel Effect - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=172103043
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