"Fierce 5" Comprehensive Program List

[davisj3537]

Ok Davis, I've been wondering since I recently found out how much I love doing regular deadlifts again. I feel like they fit better in the LU/LPP since you don't have to really take a day between the Upper and Lower like on the U/L. I realize that I would be lifting more days than on the U/L, but is there really any negatives to this? Could an intermediate lifter run this with as good of results as the U/L even though it is catagorized as " intermediate/advanced?"

Thanks so much man

If you want to work out more and get the same results then go for it man.

[Buckeyes2199]

Lol I know this sounds kinda weird but I love going to the gym. My main question I just have is if there are any negatives to the approach of going 5 days instead of 4.

[Farley1324]

Lol I know this sounds kinda weird but I love going to the gym. My main question I just have is if there are any negatives to the approach of going 5 days instead of 4.

Recovery is finite.

[davisj3537]

^^^

[Arkadij947]

Could work for a short while, but it sounds more like you need to reduce weight.

I'm actually just doing BW chin ups so there's not much I can about it.

Maybe I could try with a lower rep range, so that every set has the same number of reps, and then work my way up from there.

Also, is there a specific weight set to switch from the novice to the intermediate routine? I'm asking because, looking through journals, I've seen people squatting both 315 and 245 running intermediate.

I'm barely at 200 so I'm definitely still a novice but I'm really struggling to hit 225. Every 10lbs I add, it seems like I need a reset before being able to move forward.

[davisj3537]

I'm actually just doing BW chin ups so there's not much I can about it.

Maybe I could try with a lower rep range, so that every set has the same number of reps, and then work my way up from there.

Also, is there a specific weight set to switch from the novice to the intermediate routine? I'm asking because, looking through journals, I've seen people squatting both 315 and 245 running intermediate.

I'm barely at 200 so I'm definitely still a novice but I'm really struggling to hit 225. Every 10lbs I add, it seems like I need a reset before being able to move forward.

In that case then a rep goal makes perfect sense. Your second question is covered in the FAQ.

[sunsean]

I've been doing the novice program the past couple weeks. Been lifting a while, but this is my first time following a structured program. Question - going over the original post, FAQ, etc...I see both terms 'RDL' and 'deadlift' being used...in the official program breakdown, it says RDL, but some of the FAQ language and even in your own testimonial/results section you say 'deadlift' - so I just want to confirm, the program calls for Romanian dead lift and not traditional deal lift, correct? As I understand it I'm not supposed to be doing standard deadlifts following the program...?

[Buckeyes2199]

I understand that more is usually not better but I'm just asking if the difference in results between the U/L and the LU/LPP will be negligible. I don't mind the extra day if it won't affect my results negatively. Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks

[bob2589]

I've been doing the novice program the past couple weeks. Been lifting a while, but this is my first time following a structured program. Question - going over the original post, FAQ, etc...I see both terms 'RDL' and 'deadlift' being used...in the official program breakdown, it says RDL, but some of the FAQ language and even in your own testimonial/results section you say 'deadlift' - so I just want to confirm, the program calls for Romanian dead lift and not traditional deal lift, correct? As I understand it I'm not supposed to be doing standard deadlifts following the program...?

If you want to do deadlifts you sub out front squat and RDL for Deadlifts and Leg curls on Lower day.

[davisj3537]

I understand that more is usually not better but I'm just asking if the difference in results between the U/L and the LU/LPP will be negligible. I don't mind the extra day if it won't affect my results negatively. Sorry for the confusion.

Thanks

If there was a definitive answer you'd have already gotten it.

Everyone's recovery abilities are different and your ability to put that extra volume to use or to detriment are different. You may run the UL PPL and get worse results or they may be the same. It is unlikely you'll get better results.

[Buckeyes2199]

Yeah it makes sense that each persons body responds differently. My lifts are at or very close to the said intermediate benchmark. I just liked the layout of the LU/LPP because it had back squat 2x per week and deads 1x too. It doesn't look like the advanced/ intermediate has way more volume that the U/L but I don't want to compromise results just because I like the layout more.

[davisj3537]

Yeah it makes sense that each persons body responds differently. My lifts are at or very close to the said intermediate benchmark. I just liked the layout of the LU/LPP because it had back squat 2x per week and deads 1x too. It doesn't look like the advanced/ intermediate has way more volume that the U/L but I don't want to compromise results just because I like the layout more.

Well even if you did run it and did terrible it's not the end of the world. You'll learn something in the process. Do what you want and remember what you screwed up (or did right) to get there. That's how we all learn.

[FallingBridge]

Hi all,
I would like to switch from the beginner full body dumbbell program to the upper lower intermediate program.
I've been doing the beginner one for a couple of months, 4/5 times per week (little rest time, yes, but I'm feeling ok).

Can I do the intermediate split body program with the material I have: dumbbells, barbells, inclinable bench with bar support (no power rack for squat, but I have the leg curl machine). The material I have is listed in my other thread called:

"Help defining a program with home-gym (pics of material and myself)"

I cannot post links yet

Ciao,
Michele

No answers? Did I ask something obvious/already covered by FAQ? In particular my home equipment is what I'm concerned with.
In any case I'm sorry if my questions are stupid!

Ciao,
Michele

[davisj3537]

No answers? Did I ask something obvious/already covered by FAQ? In particular my home equipment is what I'm concerned with.
In any case I'm sorry if my questions are stupid!

Ciao,
Michele

Well to be frank, you're running a program 5 days a week when it is prescribed 3. If you know better than me, then why would you need my help making other changes?

[Buckeyes2199]

Ok i guess I'll try the LULPP then and see what I think. I'm just tying to be the most efficient with my gains. You could say I'm obsessed a little lol.

[barook]

Moving from GSLP to your upper/lower. Looked around for a while and like the balance in yours the best (compared with Phul, 2suns and 5/3/1 primarily)

I want to fit in Yoga/Kickboxing on certain days in the week as I've been doing them for months and love the classes. The yoga instructor does some advanced form of Vinyasa, upper body heavy, Tuesday Evening and Saturday Morning. Kickboxing is mostly for the cardio and endurance, legs rarely utilized compared with upper body, Tuesday Evening.

DL will be 1 working set, I've got a forward slipped vertebra and it's how I've been doing it based on GLSP's program. Recovery might be a little low, but this is what i'm thinking:

Sunday Upper A
Monday Lower A
Tuesday Yoga/Kickboxing (back to back or only kickboxing)
Wednesday Rest
Thursday Upper B
Friday Lower B (DL 1 working set and Lunges)
Saturday Yoga (in the morning, lifting 32 hours later tomorrow evening)

[Ahmad19982207]

The Novice Full Body Program

Workout A
Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Pendlay Rows 3x8
Face Pulls 3x10
Calf raises 2x15/Tricep pressdowns 2x10 Superset

Workout B
Front Squat 3x5
Overhead Press 3x5
Romanian Deadlift 3x8
Lat Pulldowns 3x8 (any grip)
Ab work 2x15/Curls 2x10 Superset (I don’t care what ab work you do)

You will be working out 3 nonconsecutive days a week and alternating between workouts A & B. Ex: Mon-A, Tues-Rest, Wed-B, Thur-Rest, Fri-A, Sat-Rest, Sun-Rest, Mon-B…etc. Each week you’ll add 5 lbs to all of your upper body lifts* and 10lbs to all of your lower body lifts.

*Reverse flies will increase 5lbs per month, leg curls (if subbed) will increase 5lbs per week and ab work increases in reps (try adding a few reps each week.) If you are unable to increase weight in these increments due to equipment limitations then, for that exercise only, increase weight every other week. For the exercises in the 5 rep range add 1 rep per set during the weeks you aren’t increasing weight. For exercises in the 8-15 range add 2 reps per set during weeks you aren’t increasing weight.

This is a question I'm repeatedly asked so here is a progression example:
Monday-Squat-200, Bench-150
Wednesday-Romanian Deadlift-200, OHP-100
Friday-Squat-200, Bench-150
Weekend of rest
Monday-Romanian Deadlift-210, OHP-105
Wednesday-Squat-210, Bench-155
Friday-Romanian Deadlift-210, OHP-105

[Click to return to top]

Could you please explain what you mean by adding one rep to each set means??
So for squats on workout 2 it should be 3 sets of 7 reps?

[TxMRF]

Can I get a form check, (since tomorrows monday)





My main concerns are:

1. Am I bending over enough?

2. Am I sway too much?

[sunsean]

If you want to do deadlifts you sub out front squat and RDL for Deadlifts and Leg curls on Lower day.

Thanks - yeah I understand the option to sub out the 2 exercises...but I assume there is a reason the program was designed to be RDL and Front Squat as opposed to the sub option...otherwise the program would be deadlift/leg curl with the option to sub for RDL/front squat. I guess I was just trying to confirm that RDL is the preferred route and is what I should be doing if no other limitations/factors are in my way.

Another way to ask this I guess would be - what reason(s) would one have for doing the sub option? Equipment limitations? Physical impediments? Or just preference? And if it's down to preference, is one better than the other?

[sunsean]

My main concerns are:

1. Am I bending over enough?

2. Am I sway too much?[/QUOTE]

1. NO. The program calls for pendlays I believe, which would have your torso parallel with the floor. I myself also sub out the pendlays for bent over rows as I find the pendlays incredibly awkward and unstable (I'm sure the problem is my form not the exercise). But when I do bent over rows, I consciously make sure to get my torso as low/parallel as possible. You are practically standing erect, with little degree of angle in your torso. Definitely need to bend over for BENT OVER ROWS.

2. The swaying isn't too bad. I'd focus more on getting your torso down. Try to brace your core and use it as an anchor, but only move your arms to lift the weight. You have a little jerk on your lifts but it isn't too exaggerated IMO.

[FallingBridge]

Well to be frank, you're running a program 5 days a week when it is prescribed 3. If you know better than me, then why would you need my help making other changes?

Well, you said that muscle recuperation is dependant on the person, and I had the impression I was progressing more in weeks when I could train a lot rather than weeks in which I did 2 workouts (my job doesn't allow me to be really regular).
I'm not one of those guys who ask for explanations then ignore them, I have already switched entirely my random built program to this (and I'm happy).

[bob2589]

Thanks - yeah I understand the option to sub out the 2 exercises...but I assume there is a reason the program was designed to be RDL and Front Squat as opposed to the sub option...otherwise the program would be deadlift/leg curl with the option to sub for RDL/front squat. I guess I was just trying to confirm that RDL is the preferred route and is what I should be doing if no other limitations/factors are in my way.

Another way to ask this I guess would be - what reason(s) would one have for doing the sub option? Equipment limitations? Physical impediments? Or just preference? And if it's down to preference, is one better than the other?

I believe Davis wrote the program this way because he believes FS to be more beneficial for Novice lifters than deadlifts. RDL carries over to DL if you want to sub it out at a later point.

There is a train of thought that suggests unless you are interested in powerlifting you can get away with never training standard deadlifts.

I subbed DL in because I enjoy the lift over FS. I believe you should train both in the program at some point so you can learn the form cues for each.

[WolfRose7]

Could you please explain what you mean by adding one rep to each set means??
So for squats on workout 2 it should be 3 sets of 7 reps?

No. If for someone reason you don't add weight to squats for a week, you bring the sets up to 3 x 6 that week.

^^ Mostly this only happens on curls,face pulls, Lat pulldown (depending on your lat pull machine)

[sunsean]

I believe Davis wrote the program this way because he believes FS to be more beneficial for Novice lifters than deadlifts. RDL carries over to DL if you want to sub it out at a later point.

There is a train of thought that suggests unless you are interested in powerlifting you can get away with never training standard deadlifts.

I subbed DL in because I enjoy the lift over FS. I believe you should train both in the program at some point so you can learn the form cues for each.

Thanks. Not black and white, I know. I have more experience with standard deadlifts than front squat, so maybe it's good that I'm incorporating FS into my routine for the first time. Good to know I have the flexibility to switch it up at some point.

[davisj3537]

Sunday Upper A
Monday Lower A
Tuesday Yoga/Kickboxing (back to back or only kickboxing)
Wednesday Rest
Thursday Upper B
Friday Lower B (DL 1 working set and Lunges)
Saturday Yoga (in the morning, lifting 32 hours later tomorrow evening)

I would consider moving Upper B to Wednesday and giving a rest day before DL on Friday. You may find the yoga class is more of a detriment to upper day than upper day is to DL, but you need to try both and see what best fits you recovery.

My main concerns are:

1. Am I bending over enough?

2. Am I sway too much?

If you're doing the Upper/Lower then you're fine. If that's the novice program then no.

I'd bend over a bit more even if you're doing a BOR. Sway is fine.

Well, you said that muscle recuperation is dependant on the person, and I had the impression I was progressing more in weeks when I could train a lot rather than weeks in which I did 2 workouts (my job doesn't allow me to be really regular).
I'm not one of those guys who ask for explanations then ignore them, I have already switched entirely my random built program to this (and I'm happy).

Recovery is individual, but under no circumstance would I advise you to work the same muscles day after day after day. Both A and B days work the same muscles...

If you list your equipment via pictures or explanations I will try to help you if you're open to the advice.

[FallingBridge]

Recovery is individual, but under no circumstance would I advise you to work the same muscles day after day after day. Both A and B days work the same muscles...

If you list your equipment via pictures or explanations I will try to help you if you're open to the advice.

Thanks! I didn't get that, apart from legs, the same muscles were worked on both days!
I have pics of the equipment here (remove spaces, I can't post links ). Also picture of myself before the training, after less than a couple of months I see progress!

forum. bodybuilding. com / showthread.php?t=173854241&pagenumber=1

[Buckeyes2199]

Ok so if I decided to just run the UL for now then when would you advise to switch to the LULPP? Is there a certain time you think would be best?

[davisj3537]

Thanks! I didn't get that, apart from legs, the same muscles were worked on both days!
I have pics of the equipment here (remove spaces, I can't post links ). Also picture of myself before the training, after less than a couple of months I see progress!

forum. bodybuilding. com / showthread.php?t=173854241&pagenumber=1

You should still be doing the same program. You're not even close to downgrading to the intermediate program. Moreover, when you do make it to intermediate you need proper equipment. It's all great, but you don't have a squat rack...that kills it.

Ok so if I decided to just run the UL for now then when would you advise to switch to the LULPP? Is there a certain time you think would be best?

You could literally run the UL for the next 3 years without needing or likely benefiting by moving to the UL PPL.

[Buckeyes2199]

Oh so the LULPP or UL could be used for an intermediate depending on whether they wanted more volume/ variety? Or you just think that the LULPP would yield the best results mostly for a true advanced trainee instead?

[davisj3537]

Oh so the LULPP or UL could be used for an intermediate depending on whether they wanted more volume/ variety? Or you just think that the LULPP would yield the best results mostly for a true advanced trainee instead?

Both, but if you're early intermediate you're just wasting time doing the UL PPL. If you like wasting time then it's a great program for any beginner or early intermediate lifter.