*** Official Tennis Thread Pt. 2****

[SazabiBrah]

I'd argue the 12 slams Fed won pre-2008 was an easier/just as easy era of Tennis than the current one.

Nah man. Djokovic won the majority of his titles by beating Tsitsipas/ Norrie/ Kyrgios/ Ruud/ Berrittini lol. Absolute mugs compared to Federer's era

[Dominik]

Nah man. Djokovic won the majority of his titles by beating Tsitsipas/ Norrie/ Kyrgios/ Ruud/ Berrittini lol. Absolute mugs compared to Federer's era

A lot of stat padding going on in recent years for both Djokovic and Nadal. Six of Nadal's last 7 slams were against Ruud, Medvedev x2, Thiem x2, and Anderson.

That doesn't change the fact during 2011-2016 Djokovic won 11/24 slams against prime Nadal, a still very capable Federer in his 30s, and the best version of Murray. 4 of his 7 Wimbledon titles vs. Federer 3x and Nadal.



Due to the 6 year age difference you can't compare the primes of Djokovic and Federer, but you can compare Djokovic and Nadal. Nadal's 0 wins against Djokovic off clay in over 10 years is a horrible stat. Even an old Federer still found a way to beat him on HC 6 times 2014-2019. Nadal couldn't do it once.

[Trudope]

Nadal drew Zverev in the 1st round at RG. Goodnight sweet prince, hell of a run.

[Dominik]

Nadal drew Zverev in the 1st round at RG. Goodnight sweet prince, hell of a run.

All the pressure is on Zverev.

[ohiostate124]

I’ve always said that a generation in Tennis is 5 years. Federer had to contend with 2 legitimate goat candidates from the next generation chasing him almost the whole time while Djokovic and Nadal never had to deal with that for pretty much their entire careers. It’s wild to me how basically 0 players came along from several lost gens (I’ve lost count) that could truly challenge them the way they could for Federer. I understand that goats don’t come along everyday but damn. 3 guys playing into their late 30s/ early 40s (Fed retired at 41 but you get it) is insane.

[Dominik]

Funny how they blatantly rigged slam draws during 2008-2011 for maximum Fedal finals exposure but from 2011 it didn't matter because Novak was consistently beating both of them.



Anyway if there was ever a player who deserved to be seeded in circumstances like this to give them a proper farewell, it's Nadal. His record there will never be beaten.

[komputerguy]

Swiatek Osaka was a top match, too bad Osaka choked it away. She's so talented but fragile mentally.

[Trudope]

too be fair she has had very little match play. hard to win a match like that

[Dominik]

It won't be Djokovic this year.

So who's winning this thing out of Alcaraz, Sinner, Tsitsipas, Zverev, Ruud, and De Minaur?

[Jayarbie]

It won't be Djokovic this year.

So who's winning this thing out of Alcaraz, Sinner, Tsitsipas, Zverev, Ruud, and De Minaur?

My guess is Alcaraz.

[Trudope]

so djokovic a torn meniscus and has to have surgery. isn't this what kept fed out for a year? how long is the recovery period?

[Jayarbie]

so djokovic a torn meniscus and has to have surgery. isn't this what kept fed out for a year? how long is the recovery period?

Meniscus tears have a pretty wide range of severity/recovery depending on whether they can scope and shave off the affected part (a couple weeks) or if they have to go in and stitch up a tear (6 months +).

[Dominik]

Dare to dream time for Zverev?

He's 11-5 vs Ruud/Sinner/Alcaraz.

All the planets have aligned on clay with no Nadal or Djokovic waiting for him.

It would be fitting if the last guy to beat Nadal on Chatrier went on to win it.

[Dominik]

Personally I don't care who wins this thing. De Muginaur is OUT. That's enough for me.



Alcaraz and Sinner have at least got slam wins. Zverev has suffered long enough.

[iabs]

A lot of stat padding going on in recent years for both Djokovic and Nadal. Six of Nadal's last 7 slams were against Ruud, Medvedev x2, Thiem x2, and Anderson.

That doesn't change the fact during 2011-2016 Djokovic won 11/24 slams against prime Nadal, a still very capable Federer in his 30s, and the best version of Murray. 4 of his 7 Wimbledon titles vs. Federer 3x and Nadal.



Due to the 6 year age difference you can't compare the primes of Djokovic and Federer, but you can compare Djokovic and Nadal. Nadal's 0 wins against Djokovic off clay in over 10 years is a horrible stat. Even an old Federer still found a way to beat him on HC 6 times 2014-2019. Nadal couldn't do it once.

2015-2016 was prime Nadal?

lol que?

[Dominik]

2015-2016 was prime Nadal?

lol que?

How many slams did he win after 2016? I count 8. Should have won 9 if he didn't choke against Federer. Had no chance against Novak in Oz. How is that not prime?

The reality champ is he faced your hero in 3 straight slams 2011-2012 and lost all of them including every Masters final in between. Would have been 4 straight if Federer didn't take him out at the French. 2011 would have been Nadal's best year... if... if... if... Novak didn't beat him in all those finals.

[Dominik]

Two 7-0 streaks.

2015 wasn't a great year but still ended the year Top 5.

I think you conveniently dismiss how hard Novak pounded him and chalk it up to some excuse.

Novak was a bigger problem for Nadal than Nadal ever was for Federer. Federer after the French Open every year over his entire career only had 3 losses to Nadal.

Wimbledon 2008
Cincinnati 2013
ATP Finals 2013

That's it. Novak was a problem for Nadal all year round on every surface.

Those who follow tennis clinically without allowing emotion to get in the way by playing favorites can see Djokovic was superior to Nadal and the results reflect that. Only two peaking Swiss players occasionally had his measure from 2011 on. After US Open 2013 Nadal never beat him off clay. 10 years. That is the most embarrassing stat in all of tennis.

[Jayarbie]

Two 7-0 streaks.

2015 wasn't a great year but still ended the year Top 5.

I think you conveniently dismiss how hard Novak pounded him and chalk it up to some excuse.

Novak was a bigger problem for Nadal than Nadal ever was for Federer. Federer after the French Open every year over his entire career only had 3 losses to Nadal.

Wimbledon 2008
Cincinnati 2013
ATP Finals 2013

That's it. Novak was a problem for Nadal all year round on every surface.

Those who follow tennis clinically without allowing emotion to get in the way by playing favorites can see Djokovic was superior to Nadal and the results reflect that. Only two peaking Swiss players occasionally had his measure from 2011 on. After US Open 2013 Nadal never beat him off clay. 10 years. That is the most embarrassing stat in all of tennis.

I was never a Djokovic fan, and I considered Fed the GOAT until a couple years ago, but it's objectively indisputable now that Joker is above everyone else.

[komputerguy]

Women Semi is pretty good. I'm hoping Mirra or Paolini can win it all. Sabalenka is a nut case with fake injury when she's losing.

Novak owned Nadal on every surface and was lucky that french semi i believed when they had to play next day. Fed matched up better against Novak but Federer is his own worst enemy. He refused to adapt and change his game especially against Rafa, once he did that, he was winning more and bested him at the Aussie open down a break in 5th. Fed is still the goat for me and his game is classically beautiful to watch.

[Dominik]

I was never a Djokovic fan, and I considered Fed the GOAT until a couple years ago, but it's objectively indisputable now that Joker is above everyone else.

I accepted it a few years earlier but reached the same conclusion.

Seriously though, imagine Sampras going 10 years without a win over Agassi except on grass. Wouldn't be much of a rivalry.

Over the last 10 years Nadal faced Djokovic 11 times off clay for 0-11.

Of course in typical Nadal style they played 12 times on clay (7-5 Nadal). A surface that takes up two months of the calendar and they somehow play more times than on hard. What a sham.

[Trudope]

somehow the previous 10 years years never existed. fcking lol

"Of their 59 meetings, 27 matches have been on hard courts with Djokovic leading 20–7, 28 on clay with Nadal leading 20–8, and 4 on grass where they are tied 2–2."

seems pretty even to me. djokovic leading on hc, nadal leading on clay, grass even

[Dominik]

somehow the previous 10 years years never existed. fcking lol

"Of their 59 meetings, 27 matches have been on hard courts with Djokovic leading 20–7, 28 on clay with Nadal leading 20–8, and 4 on grass where they are tied 2–2."

seems pretty even to me. djokovic leading on hc, nadal leading on clay, grass even

How did they manage to play more times on clay in the last 10 years than hard?

"seems pretty even to me"

Spoiler!

Last 10 years?

0-11 hard & grass
7-5 clay

Novak owns him

[Dominik]

I feel sorry for you guys. Novak living rent free. You simply can't accept what everyone else can see.

[Trudope]

what about the previous 10 years before that? they didn't exist? all you are doing is cherry picking data

[skinnyfat88]

Isn't a Fed vs Rafa argument more relevant now?
I give Rafa the edge because even if you take away a few clay matches (they played 16 of their 40 matches on clay), Rafa would still edge him in H2H and of course he also has more Slams (winning each a minimum of twice).

Novak has the GOAT status locked up.

[Dominik]

what about the previous 10 years before that? they didn't exist? all you are doing is cherry picking data

No cherry picking. I'd say "last 10 years" is a reliable snapshot.

Nadal reached his prime earlier than Djokovic who is also a year younger.

Anyway Novak is superior everywhere but clay and even on clay he matches up better than anyone vs. Nadal. I don't even care about the slam tally. It's his success across all surfaces from January to November, weeks at #1, ATP Finals, Wimbledon titles (and grass record vs. Roger) , and his years of clear domination that put him way above Nadal. Hardcourt of course is the great equalizer and he reigns supreme there. Nadal's resume is too clay heavy.

[Jayarbie]

No cherry picking. I'd say "last 10 years" is a reliable snapshot.

Nadal reached his prime earlier than Djokovic who is also a year younger.

Anyway Novak is superior everywhere but clay and even on clay he matches up better than anyone vs. Nadal. I don't even care about the slam tally. It's his success across all surfaces from January to November, weeks at #1, ATP Finals, Wimbledon titles (and grass record vs. Roger) , and his years of clear domination that put him way above Nadal. Hardcourt of course is the great equalizer and he reigns supreme there. Nadal's resume is too clay heavy.

Nadal is undoubtedly the greatest clay court specialist of all time.

[Trudope]

No cherry picking. I'd say "last 10 years" is a reliable snapshot.

Nadal reached his prime earlier than Djokovic who is also a year younger.

Anyway Novak is superior everywhere but clay and even on clay he matches up better than anyone vs. Nadal. I don't even care about the slam tally. It's his success across all surfaces from January to November, weeks at #1, ATP Finals, Wimbledon titles (and grass record vs. Roger) , and his years of clear domination that put him way above Nadal. Hardcourt of course is the great equalizer and he reigns supreme there. Nadal's resume is too clay heavy.

you're not going to get an argument from me that Djokovic is the greatest. He pretty much dominates in every stat category with weeks at #1, GS, YEC, Masters Series, H2H vs. his rivals. I just don't like how you cherry pick stats like the first 10 years of their rivalary doesn't matter. There is a reason the h2h is only 30-29 in favor of djokovic. nadal dominated early on and he dominated later.

[Dominik]

Except for 3 months in the middle of the year for clay and grass, over an 11 month season they play on hardcourts.

So how did Nadal over the last 10 years end up playing Djokovic more times on clay (12) than hard (10)?

How does that even happen?

Seems like only one half of the "rivalry" has the balls to show up year round. Novak doesn't hide from Nadal but Nadal sure as chit cherry picks his meetings with Novak.

Forget the last 10 years, they played nearly 60 times:

Clay courts: Nadal 20–8
Hard courts: Djokovic 20–7

A 2 month season and they played more times on clay than hardcourt. How?

Even worse is where Djokovic won 10 slams and is undefeated in the final Nadal only faced him twice in his entire career. Of course where Nadal won 14 slams they played TEN TIMES.

Answer this for me. If Novak is 11-0 off clay the last 10 years (18-5 overall), what would the H2H look like if they played each other another 20 times on hard like they should have? You know the H2H wouldn't be close.