**Official Song of Ice and Fire Thread (SPOILERS)**

[Ice-9]

Hmmm, since he has a skeleton key for the Citadel now, if that was his goal wouldn't he have done it and have bounced?

I think he's there for more infiltrative purposes. The Maesters have a lot of secrets from supposedly controlling the weather to your alluded to intentionally killing off dragons. Maybe he's there for all of it/as much as he can.

No idea, but yeah, honestly he could be down there for about any reason.
We just don't have enough information on the situation to be able to focus in on anything. Would make things easier on us if we had a clue whether Jaqen has gone rogue, or is still operating under the command of the faceless men. Knowing this would at least help with figuring out motive.

[TheReverend]

No idea, but yeah, honestly he could be down there for about any reason.
We just don't have enough information on the situation to be able to focus in on anything. Would make things easier on us if we had a clue whether Jaqen has gone rogue, or is still operating under the command of the faceless men.

I think it ties Sam and him to Arya's story arc, but as you said, we still don't really have a clue how or where that one is headed.

[ScubaStevo]

I am going to make a profound statement:

Had Robert Barotheon never shouted out "Lydia" when he was having sex with Cersei on his wedding night, the events of Game of Thrones would never have happened.

Honestly, it all boils down to that one moment/word.

[ScubaStevo]

I am going to make a profound statement:

Had Robert Barotheon never shouted out "Lydia" when he was having sex with Cersei on his wedding night, the events of Game of Thrones would never have happened.

Honestly, it all boils down to that one moment/word.

props to reverend for correcting me - it is lyana or what ever. I had skyrim on the brain me thinks.

[GivenToFly55]

I am going to make a profound statement:

Had Robert Barotheon never shouted out "Lydia" when he was having sex with Cersei on his wedding night, the events of Game of Thrones would never have happened.

Honestly, it all boils down to that one moment/word.

Probably a catalyst to the reaction, but without that we'd probably be at a similar point. Dany's story hasn't been dependent upon Westeros (minor things like Selmy and assassination attempts, could even argue Varys and Ilyrio may have acted different, but she'd still have dragons and want the throne), Robert still would have been a drunk and banged whores, Cersei and Jaime still would sleep together, Dorne is still waiting for revenge, etc.

It would be hard to pick one moment and I don't think you could pick just one, but I'd go with Joffery's birth. It gave Cersei a motive and desire to kill Robert and get a Lannister on the throne.

[ScubaStevo]

Probably a catalyst to the reaction, but without that we'd probably be at a similar point. Dany's story hasn't been dependent upon Westeros (minor things like Selmy and assassination attempts, could even argue Varys and Ilyrio may have acted different, but she'd still have dragons and want the throne), Robert still would have been a drunk and banged whores, Cersei and Jaime still would sleep together, Dorne is still waiting for revenge, etc.

It would be hard to pick one moment and I don't think you could pick just one, but I'd go with Joffery's birth. It gave Cersei a motive and desire to kill Robert and get a Lannister on the throne.

The more I think about it, you are probably right, Joffrey's birth was inevitable. I forgot that Jaime and Cersei were boning before she became Queen (as Jaime joined the Kingsguard in order to be close to Cersei under Targaryan's rule).

[YeOldeUsername]

I think it ties Sam and him to Arya's story arc, but as you said, we still don't really have a clue how or where that one is headed.

At least Sam's because of his proximity. Only makes sense. Ya, we have no clue what he'd want. It could be as simple as killing a maester to as complicated as stealing their secrets/artifacts. It'll be fun to see everyone freak out.

Oh, and page 419 (think that's right) in DWD, Mesilandre says something that alludes to the fact that she has Davos' knucklebones. And later implies that she's not mortal by not having to eat and calling others "mortals" in her POV chapter.

[Ice-9]

Oh, and page 419 (think that's right) in DWD, Mesilandre says something that alludes to the fact that she has Davos' knucklebones. And later implies that she's not mortal by not having to eat and calling others "mortals" in her POV chapter.

She has implied in the past that Stannis isn't mortal either, so take her visions and opinions with a grain of salt.

[andres93]

almost done with book 5. lol @ quentyn martell

[AreolaBorealis]

almost done with book 5. lol @ quentyn martell

Felt bad for him sad as fuk especially since I love the Doran Martell character.

[Ice-9]

Felt bad for him sad as fuk especially since I love the Doran Martell character.

Same
Doran, and more-so Quentyn, got screwed by the same thing that Martin's readers have been screwed by for the past 11 years....the Meereenese Knot. Everyone, including Varys/Illyrio, and even Dany's own small council, expected her to go to Volantis, and to Westeros from there. Had she done that, and actually been in the process of making her way to Westeros, Quentyn's offer may very well have succeeded, as the offer of Dornish alliance would have been a huge pull. Instead, she sat on her a$$ in Meereen and screwed everything up.

[CM1221]

She has implied in the past that Stannis isn't mortal either, so take her visions and opinions with a grain of salt.

well i think she twists the visions to forward her cause. shes already said that the flames never lie, she may just interpret the visions differently. a person will see shat they want to see

[OperationIvy]

She has implied in the past that Stannis isn't mortal either, so take her visions and opinions with a grain of salt.

ya, but I think it would be hard for her to misinterpret her own mortality or need to eat. The Stannis thing seems to either be a misinterpretation or a plot by her.

[Ice-9]

well i think she twists the visions to forward her cause. shes already said that the flames never lie, she may just interpret the visions differently. a person will see shat they want to see

Her cause, as with all Red Priests, seems simply to do what they can to aid Azor Ahai in his/her battle against the Great Other. Even from Mel's POV chapter, I don't recall picking up on any ulterior motives. The problem, as you mentioned above, is their interpretation of their visions. First we've got Mel seeing Stannis. Then we've got her seeing Snow (Jon). Then across the sea we've got Benerro (High Priest of Volantis) seeing Dany as AA, and sending Moqorro as a representative.

These people seem as unable to come to a consensus on the issue as most readers are.

[OperationIvy]

so...am I the only one waiting for a sexy Sansa scene so that I can see the actresses titties on Game of Thrones? I will ravage her once she turns 18.

[undie28]

so...am I the only one waiting for a sexy Sansa scene so that I can see the actresses titties on Game of Thrones? I will ravage her once she turns 18.

she became a giant between seasons 1 and 2. Didn't anyone notice how they had to shot the scenes in order to minimise people realising (towering over Joffrey for example).

[TheReverend]

Warning... HUGE GoT spoiler in following link:

http://i.imgur.com/3D9dy.jpg

[TheReverend]

Her cause, as with all Red Priests, seems simply to do what they can to aid Azor Ahai in his/her battle against the Great Other. Even from Mel's POV chapter, I don't recall picking up on any ulterior motives. The problem, as you mentioned above, is their interpretation of their visions. First we've got Mel seeing Stannis. Then we've got her seeing Snow (Jon). Then across the sea we've got Benerro (High Priest of Volantis) seeing Dany as AA, and sending Moqorro as a representative.

These people seem as unable to come to a consensus on the issue as most readers are.

Maybe AA is really just the Dragon with 3 heads and is Dany, Jon and Aegon.

[Shangius]

Taking in the Prologue of FFC. The alchemist is described as Jaquen and he has the key to all the rooms in the citadel and apparently transformed himself into pate and when sam arrives pate was in the room when sam told the maester what aemon wanted to tell him.

I think that jaquen is somehow gonna be related with daenerys soon. idk what his plan is though anythoughts?

Well we know the Maesters are guarding secrets about the dragons and magic. It'll be interesting to see whether Jaqen is meant to help or harm Dany.

[OperationIvy]

she became a giant between seasons 1 and 2. Didn't anyone notice how they had to shot the scenes in order to minimise people realising (towering over Joffrey for example).

She's still proportional and feminine. Just tall. No big, I'm tall.

Well we know the Maesters are guarding secrets about the dragons and magic. It'll be interesting to see whether Jaqen is meant to help or harm Dany.

There's also the maester v maester thing that will go down with that group that Sam joined (kinda) against the traditional power.

[Ice-9]

Maybe AA is really just the Dragon with 3 heads and is Dany, Jon and Aegon.

The more I think about it, the more I like Dany, and Dany alone to be AA. I think the "three heads" prophecy is unrelated.
And as for Aegon, he's as much a Targaryan/Dragon as Jeyne Poole is Arya. The HOTU seems about as clear as prophecies can possibly be:

A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd.

With Dany's role being:

. . . mother of dragons, slayer of lies . . .

Lies plural, being Stannis as AA and Aegon as a Targaryan.

[OperationIvy]

^^^

I'm pretty convinced that Jon is going to have to live and I don't see him naturally surviving his Caesar stabbing. If he isn't AA, then how will he live? Pull a Coldhands move? It did say that he felt the cold.

[Ice-9]

^^^

I'm pretty convinced that Jon is going to have to live and I don't see him naturally surviving his Caesar stabbing. If he isn't AA, then how will he live? Pull a Coldhands move? It did say that he felt the cold.

I believe Jon will live as well, but he doesn't need the AA prophecy to do so.
The wounds could prove to not be fatal, and he could be healed through normal methods (helped by the cold conditions, constricting blood flow). Or Mel could heal, or revive him if necessary.

[OperationIvy]

I believe Jon will live as well, but he doesn't need the AA prophecy to do so.
The wounds could prove to not be fatal, and he could be healed through normal methods (helped by the cold conditions, constricting blood flow). Or Mel could heal, or revive him if necessary.

I think him surviving the stabbing without some kind of supernatural healing is pushing it. He's been stabbed multiple times and the scene seems to imply that everyone was going to stab him "for the Night's Watch" so that they'd all share in the crime.

Mesilandre could heal her though; that would make perfect sense. We've been shown that it's possible with Thoros.

[Ice-9]

Mesilandre could heal him though; that would make perfect sense. We've been shown that it's possible with Thoros.

We were shown healing ability in Moqorro, and essentially raising the dead with Thoros-->Beric, Cat.
The fact that Mel remained at the Wall while Stannis rode to Winterfell wasn't just random coincidence. She's clearly got a part to play in what's to come.

[undie28]

I think him surviving the stabbing without some kind of supernatural healing is pushing it. He's been stabbed multiple times and the scene seems to imply that everyone was going to stab him "for the Night's Watch" so that they'd all share in the crime.

Mesilandre could heal her though; that would make perfect sense. We've been shown that it's possible with Thoros.

I got the impression that the stabbers were not doing it voluntarily, there was a line which i cant recall exactly that seemed to suggest that to me. My tip is that it was the work of that powerful warg.

[OperationIvy]

I got the impression that the stabbers were not doing it voluntarily, there was a line which i cant recall exactly that seemed to suggest that to me. My tip is that it was the work of that powerful warg.

Varamyr is dead. Well, he lives through in his wolf I guess. The only other warg is the one with the boar and i don't think that's him.

I really think that the brothers who stabbed him did it because they thought that he was going to destroy the Night's Watch.

[Ice-9]

I got the impression that the stabbers were not doing it voluntarily, there was a line which i cant recall exactly that seemed to suggest that to me. My tip is that it was the work of that powerful warg.

The unlikelihood that Bloodraven can warg into a person of average intelligence aside.....
The impossibility of warging into four people at once aside.....
Why exactly would he want Jon dead?

And the line you're referring to is likely Bowen Marsh crying as he stabbed Jon in the stomach.

I really think that the brothers who stabbed him did it because they thought that he was going to destroy the Night's Watch.

This is a good (and likely correct) assumption.

[dpg108]

Just got done with ADWD and I am convinced Jon is AA and the PTWP and not Dany or Aegon...

- Jon is born from the union of Rhaegar and Lyanna... the way GRRM talks about these 2 characters... if gods could be born into human form it would be them. Jon certainly has better sires to be AA reborn than Dany or Aegon.
- Meli asks the fire twice to show her AA in ADWD... first time it shows her Jon Snow and the next time she just sees snow...
- Ghost is John's Direwold and GRRM talks about I think Children of the Forest being born with red or green eyes as being special
- The crow calling John King
- John is a bastard and comes from very humble beginnings to transform into the main character of the story, this goes more in line with GRRM's writing style than having Dany be the PTWP
- Lightbringer is very close to the wall right now. I am not sure if Stannis' lightbringer is the real one given to him by Mel, but I assume it is the way they talk about it... just doesnt have all its power right now because AA isnt wielding it
- The Tower of Joy scene : Why were there three kingsguard there?... no matter how much Rhaegar loved Lyanna they would not have stayed to guard her. Rather Lyanna gave birth there to Jon and Rhaegar or they all knew Jon was PTWP when he was born. Also Jon was born after Rhaegar and Aerys and possibly Aegon were killed, which would have made Jon a baby king (if he was legitimate). Regardless of Rhaegar's new born son there... those three kingsgaurd should have been either at the Trident or at King's Landing... not defending Rhaegar's love and possibly their new born. It does not make sense for them to be there unless they knew there was something extremely special about Jon.
- We know about Lyanna's promise and we know that Ned was always extremely shady with regards to Jon's mother... this is because he is Targaryean and Robert would probably kill him even though he loved Ned

[AreaCode201]

^ pretty much agree with everything up there. at thing point I think R+L=J is the only viable explanation.