"Fierce 5" Novice Routine

[Cecat7]

@Davisj: question about how form influences the amount of weight you can lift and some form issues.

I started doing this routine a few months ago with just the bar after a stomach surgery. Couldn't eat in a surplus so I stalled really quick (weighing only 135 lbs, 6ft tall). Only since about a month ago I am able to eat in a surplus (due to some dietary changes) and my numbers have gone up a lot! Current weight: 147 lbs

I had never done deadlifts before and even the bar felt really heavy at the time. I think my body is well structured for deadlifts as this is my strongest lift now. Went up from 45lbs to 175lbs (3 sets of 5 which I can easily complete).

Bench press was my 'weakest' (squat too but that's another issue) lift. Couldn't bench 5 reps with 45lbs. Now I'm benching 100 lbs with ease, so I think I won't stall for quite a while following the progression rate you subscribed. One thing that I have noticed is that my left front delt seems to be doing a lot of the work, although I can feel my chest activating and contracting during the movement. I have tried a variety of grips, arching back more/less, flaring elbows more/less and I always retract my scapula well so my shoulders are on the bench and chest sticking out. Any thoughts on what I still could be doing wrong here? Or could it be a muscular imbalance between my left and right side?

My squats felt horrible up until today and I was stuck at 100 lbs for a long time. I actually have some hip issues for which I have to wear orthopedic soles (one leg longer than the other which caused my hip/shin bone to rotate during my growth spurt, my right foot has to point outwards when standing up straight or my hip will rotate my upper body to the left). I started reading up on squat form and read that the conventional way of squatting isn't for everyone. I tried a very wide stance ("sumo squats") instead of slightly outside shoulder width stance and this seems to help tremendously! Also learnt how to breath properly and push my hips/knees out (my knees always caved in which lead to an awkward feeling during squatting and hip flexor pain). With this new way of performing squats 100 lbs felt really light and I enjoyed squatting for the first time in my life! Also felt my quads engaging more. Went up to 135lbs for 3 sets of 5. Could've gone up more, but that's already a 35lbs increment from last time. I also pause for a second at the bottom to be able to control my form when going up more. Is stance while squatting a personal preference and does it impact your strength ability by that much? How would you compare a wider stance to a closer stance in terms of muscles engaged/worked and is the wider stance a better option for me (with my hip issues) or should I go back to my physical therapist to work on mobility? It's actually a structural (bone) problem which I think cannot be helped.

[davisj3537]

Hey you r back! Somebody wrote here u had a surgery.
How r u now?

Wish u a speedy recovery.

Doing well. Hip is fine and the shoulder surgery is on the horizon.

Thanks. I get that it's an isolation exercise, but how do you develop those aesthetic biceps then?

Compounds. When you pendlay 225 you'll have great biceps. You can't have a weak row and have great biceps... at least if you did you'd look stupid because your development would be drastically off and rather visible.

I don't even do bicep curls and have nice biceps. Put that into perspective.

[davisj3537]

@Davisj: question about how form influences the amount of weight you can lift and some form issues.

I started doing this routine a few months ago with just the bar after a stomach surgery. Couldn't eat in a surplus so I stalled really quick (weighing only 135 lbs, 6ft tall). Only since about a month ago I am able to eat in a surplus (due to some dietary changes) and my numbers have gone up a lot! Current weight: 147 lbs

I had never done deadlifts before and even the bar felt really heavy at the time. I think my body is well structured for deadlifts as this is my strongest lift now. Went up from 45lbs to 175lbs (3 sets of 5 which I can easily complete).

Bench press was my 'weakest' (squat too but that's another issue) lift. Couldn't bench 5 reps with 45lbs. Now I'm benching 100 lbs with ease, so I think I won't stall for quite a while following the progression rate you subscribed. One thing that I have noticed is that my left front delt seems to be doing a lot of the work, although I can feel my chest activating and contracting during the movement. I have tried a variety of grips, arching back more/less, flaring elbows more/less and I always retract my scapula well so my shoulders are on the bench and chest sticking out. Any thoughts on what I still could be doing wrong here? Or could it be a muscular imbalance between my left and right side?

My squats felt horrible up until today and I was stuck at 100 lbs for a long time. I actually have some hip issues for which I have to wear orthopedic soles (one leg longer than the other which caused my hip/shin bone to rotate during my growth spurt, my right foot has to point outwards when standing up straight or my hip will rotate my upper body to the left). I started reading up on squat form and read that the conventional way of squatting isn't for everyone. I tried a very wide stance ("sumo squats") instead of slightly outside shoulder width stance and this seems to help tremendously! Also learnt how to breath properly and push my hips/knees out (my knees always caved in which lead to an awkward feeling during squatting and hip flexor pain). With this new way of performing squats 100 lbs felt really light and I enjoyed squatting for the first time in my life! Also felt my quads engaging more. Went up to 135lbs for 3 sets of 5. Could've gone up more, but that's already a 35lbs increment from last time. I also pause for a second at the bottom to be able to control my form when going up more. Is stance while squatting a personal preference and does it impact your strength ability by that much? How would you compare a wider stance to a closer stance in terms of muscles engaged/worked and is the wider stance a better option for me (with my hip issues) or should I go back to my physical therapist to work on mobility? It's actually a structural (bone) problem which I think cannot be helped.

Hard to say on the bench and delt takeover. Mine are very similar in that my shoulders are always failing first. Your chest will still grow and on the plus side your shoulders will be huge. Keep playing around with scap retraction and MMC and see if anything changes, but I don't really think at this point that anything is "wrong."

Good job on your lifts in general. Seems like you're really seeing a great improvement.

Stance is preference. Closer works more quads and wider brings in more posterior chain. Perfectly fine. What I'd consider doing is working with your PT to find what stance is best for you and your individual mechanical limitations. I'm not familiar with your issue and frankly not qualified to give you good advice concerning it.

[jeffersonranada]

Hello everyone! 2 weeks in this program and I like it. My question is I don't get a pump in my chest when I bench press. Are pumps necessary for muscle growth?

[joshdbeard]

Hello everyone! 2 weeks in this program and I like it. My question is I don't get a pump in my chest when I bench press. Are pumps necessary for muscle growth?

No. Keep at it, you will see progress/growth. Congrats on finishing the first two weeks!

[joshdbeard]

Week 4 in the books!!
Progression:
Squat:
85lb ---> 95lb ---> 105lb --> 115lb
Bench:
90lb ---> 95lb ---> 100lb --> 105lb
Front Squat:
65lb ---> 85lb ---> 95lb --> 105lb
Incline Bench:
85lb ---> 95lb ---> 100lb --> 105lb
Romanian Deadlift:
95lb ---> 105lb ---> 115lb --> 125lb

[davisj3537]

Hello everyone! 2 weeks in this program and I like it. My question is I don't get a pump in my chest when I bench press. Are pumps necessary for muscle growth?

Nope, a pump is a very small part of the muscle building process. In order to get a chest pump you'd have to increase volume to some stupid level which would drastically reduce the effectiveness of the much larger muscle building aspects in the program and the rest of your muscles would also suffer.

[Squid24]

Week 4 in the books!!
Progression:
Squat:
85lb ---> 95lb ---> 105lb --> 115lb
Bench:
90lb ---> 95lb ---> 100lb --> 105lb
Front Squat:
65lb ---> 85lb ---> 95lb --> 105lb
Incline Bench:
85lb ---> 95lb ---> 100lb --> 105lb
Romanian Deadlift:
95lb ---> 105lb ---> 115lb --> 125lb

Nice, movement.

I think when I come back to the Novice program I am going to start out really light and work on an even slower tempo. Plus when doing squats, my knees need some longer lighter love

[davisj3537]

Nice, movement.

I think when I come back to the Novice program I am going to start out really light and work on an even slower tempo. Plus when doing squats, my knees need some longer lighter love

I think when coming back I'm gonna do it as well. If my PT approves then I'm gonna start with the bar on all lifts and just follow the progression. It'll take me 6 months for anything to get challenging, but that's about the time frame I should shoot for recovery anyway. 3 months until I can squat and then 6 more months of submaximal squatting sounds about right given labral repairs take 9-12 months to fully "repair."

[Squid24]

I think when coming back I'm gonna do it as well. If my PT approves then I'm gonna start with the bar on all lifts and just follow the progression. It'll take me 6 months for anything to get challenging, but that's about the time frame I should shoot for recovery anyway. 3 months until I can squat and then 6 more months of submaximal squatting sounds about right given labral repairs take 9-12 months to fully "repair."

And here I thought you were getting the Bionic man equipment Damn, I was really hoping...lol

9-12 mos? I will just stick to getting older.

Keep us posted on your progress

[danfleysher]

If I start to plateau on my lifts while cutting weight, should I stick to increasing reps instead of weight, increase weights but lower reps, or simply deload and run it back?

[BLicK1252]

Week 4 in the books!!
Progression:
Squat:
85lb ---> 95lb ---> 105lb --> 115lb
Bench:
90lb ---> 95lb ---> 100lb --> 105lb
Front Squat:
65lb ---> 85lb ---> 95lb --> 105lb
Incline Bench:
85lb ---> 95lb ---> 100lb --> 105lb
Romanian Deadlift:
95lb ---> 105lb ---> 115lb --> 125lb

Nice man! I just finished my 4th week as well. I screwed up the progression system at first so not all my weights are exactly where they should be but...

Front Squat
135 -> 165

Incline
95 -> 115

RDL
115 - > 145

Squat
155 -> 185

Bench
115 -> 135

Pendlay
95 -> 110

[Squid24]

If I start to plateau on my lifts while cutting weight, should I stick to increasing reps instead of weight, increase weights but lower reps, or simply deload and run it back?

I would try RESETS first.

If you have been on this for a while and have NOT had a DELOAD week, then give that a try.

I highlighted both reset and deload, cause most ppl do not know they are different.

[BLicK1252]

Nice, movement.

I think when I come back to the Novice program I am going to start out really light and work on an even slower tempo. Plus when doing squats, my knees need some longer lighter love

Yeah, I wish I started even lighter on squat just to really nail my form. Here I am now 4 weeks into the program and my front squat today was real tough. I think my form was ok, but man I was gassed after my sets.

[mannymann]

Nice man! I just finished my 4th week as well. I screwed up the progression system at first so, not all my weights are exactly where they should be but...

Front Squat
135 -> 165

Incline
95 -> 115

RDL
115 - > 145

Squat
155 -> 185

Bench
115 -> 135

Pendlay
95 -> 110

Here are mine after 6 weeks. Not as good as you guys

Squat 30kg --> 55kg (66lbs -->121lbs)
Bench 25kg --> 40kg (55lbs --> 88lbs)
Incline Bench 25kg --> 40kg (55lbs --> 88lbs)
Deadlift 40kg --> 65kg (88lbs --> 143lbs)
Row 25kg --> 37.5kg (55lbs --> 82lbs)
Lat Pulldown 30kg --> 45kg (66lbs --> 99lbs)
Leg Curl 35kg --> 47.5kg (77lbs --> 105lbs)

[Squid24]

Nice man! I just finished my 4th week as well. I screwed up the progression system at first so, not all my weights are exactly where they should be but...

Front Squat
135 -> 165

Incline
95 -> 115

RDL
115 - > 145

Squat
155 -> 185

Bench
115 -> 135

Pendlay
95 -> 110

Looks fine to me. Get mentally ready for the resets, and remember, resets are your friends

[joshdbeard]

Nice man! I just finished my 4th week as well. I screwed up the progression system at first so not all my weights are exactly where they should be but...

Front Squat
135 -> 165
Incline
95 -> 115
RDL
115 - > 145
Squat
155 -> 185
Bench
115 -> 135
Pendlay
95 -> 110

You nailed the progression...you're even +5 on Bench and Incline. Keep at it, congrats!

Here are mine after 6 weeks. Not as good as you guys

Squat 30kg --> 55kg (66lbs -->121lbs)
Bench 25kg --> 40kg (55lbs --> 88lbs)
Incline Bench 25kg --> 40kg (55lbs --> 88lbs)
Deadlift 40kg --> 65kg (88lbs --> 143lbs)
Row 25kg --> 37.5kg (55lbs --> 82lbs)
Lat Pulldown 30kg --> 45kg (66lbs --> 99lbs)
Leg Curl 35kg --> 47.5kg (77lbs --> 105lbs)

Keep up the good work, congrats!

[BLicK1252]

Looks fine to me. Get mentally ready for the resets, and remember, resets are your friends

I'm ready for them actually. I'm going to need one on RDL. I started too heavy on that as well. My hammies and back seem to be ok, but I actually don't have the grip strength to complete 8-10 reps. I failed my 2nd set today at 145, but got my third. Front squat is going to be a reset soon too, I'm going to try and go up again next week, but I was really hurting knocking out my 3 sets today. Bench, back squat and incline will probably still continue to go up, I started those probably too low, but I needed to completely overhaul my form, which has helped tremendously.

[Squid24]

Yeah, I wish I started even lighter on squat just to really nail my form. Here I am now 4 weeks into the program and my front squat today was real tough. I think my form was ok, but man I was gassed after my sets.

I am gassed before, during and after my sets...oh wait...sorry lol...wrong kind of gas

Don't worry to much about it now, you have resets to help you out further down the road

[BLicK1252]

You nailed the progression...you're even +5 on Bench and Incline. Keep at it, congrats!

haha, that is because I got lazy and cheated this week and decided to just throw on a 45 for bench and 35 for incline, rather than doing 130 or 110.

[BLicK1252]

My ab workout is a joke right now though. I wanted to do the landmine 180s that you guys had suggested but unfortunately, I forgot to check out the form on how they are done and I didn't have enough time, so I had to just pump out some crunches and curls. Even just doing 20 bicycle crunches is agonizing for me.

[danfleysher]

I would try RESETS first.

If you have been on this for a while and have NOT had a DELOAD week, then give that a try.

I highlighted both reset and deload, cause most ppl do not know they are different.

You're right, I have no idea what the difference is.

I take it a RESET is dropping the weight (say 20%) and then working back up
A DELOAD is taking a week off lifting?

[BLicK1252]

Anyone have any suggestions for grip strength or is it just something that will naturally improve the more I do the exercise? On RDLs it is just my right hand that keeps slipping up.

[mannymann]

You're right, I have no idea what the difference is.

I take it a RESET is dropping the weight (say 20%) and then working back up
A DELOAD is taking a week off lifting?

Pretty much

Reset, drop the weight by 15% and then work on form while building back up
Deload, either 5 days off lifting or lifting at around 50% (I think)

[mannymann]

Anyone have any suggestions for grip strength or is it just something that will naturally improve the more I do the exercise? On RDLs it is just my right hand that keeps slipping up.

It will progress with the rest of your lifting but liquid chalk is supposed to really help

[Squid24]

Pretty much

Reset, drop the weight by 15% and then work on form while building back up
Deload, either 5 days off lifting or lifting at around 50% (I think)

This ^^^^^

[dency45]

I am new to OHP and I feel the weight on my thoracic area, I did some mobility test and I pass it. I will record it on my next workout and ask for form check.

Anyone have any suggestions for grip strength or is it just something that will naturally improve the more I do the exercise? On RDLs it is just my right hand that keeps slipping up.

Do alternate grip or use lifting straps. Personally for me when reps is 1-5, I use my bare hands, above that I will use lifting straps.

[GreatNes]

You have to nail form before you can worry about resets so much.

I promise if you take the time to nail the form the resets will not come so close to one another.

Marathon...not a sprint. You're young. Nail form better than anyone in that gym and watch what happens to your lifts and your body over the next few years. I wish I would have focused on it as a kid instead of "spinning wheels" throwing weight around. Be happy you found this Novice program and take advantage of all of the knowledge/help you are getting here! If you have further questions, keep posting them, but only if you're putting in the work.

EDIT: one more thing...are you breathing?? Just watched again and it looks like you held one breath for the whole set.

form on my bench or squat ? , im reseting my bench because of form is probably causing problems but squat im reseting if i cant break my 195lbs plateau this will be the second reset at this max weight if i fail . yes i have breathing problems on bench on squat i breath in going down then out coming up .

[joshdbeard]

form on my bench or squat ? , im reseting my bench because of form is probably causing problems but squat im reseting if i cant break my 195lbs plateau this will be the second reset at this max weight if i fail . yes i have breathing problems on bench on squat i breath in going down then out coming up .

Your video and problems I have been addressing are all for Bench...I have not commented on your squat.

[davisj3537]

And here I thought you were getting the Bionic man equipment Damn, I was really hoping...lol

9-12 mos? I will just stick to getting older.

Keep us posted on your progress

For reals. My muscles can handle way more than my joints. I'm just like "put some titanium in there or something FFS." lol

form on my bench or squat ? , im reseting my bench because of form is probably causing problems but squat im reseting if i cant break my 195lbs plateau this will be the second reset at this max weight if i fail . yes i have breathing problems on bench on squat i breath in going down then out coming up .

If you're bulking and this is your second reset at the same weight you may want to go intermediate. Don't get me wrong, your lifts are still a bit low for that, BUT progression ability is a better indicator than the actual weight lifted. You may do a little better on the upper/lower.