First time BULKERS apply here ;)

[sglgirl]

I was always hungry on my bulk, moreso than cutting. Though I'm not sure if it was a mentality issue "I can have it, I'm bulking".... Can = want

11 days out and I am in a constant hunger. One more day with veggies in my meals and then it is on to the last phase....god help me get through it!!

[schnauzers]

Recomp means losing fat and gaining muscle at the same time. Separating the goals means more muscle gains and less time starving. I mean leaning out

Got it, thanks

Yeah, it can happen. I also struggle in this regard. When I went to maintain after bulking, I figured 2400 would be enough at 5'1 and 116lbs. But I actually lost some weight on 2400. I bulked over about a year and gained 23lbs (ish) on 2500-3000 cals per day and bear in mind that took me from 93-116lbs, so my BMR was way below yours. I think some of us underestimate how active we are. Personally I just embraced it and made really good friends with the peanut butter jar. Anyway, don't stress it, gaining 1lb per month is GREAT because you can be sure that so long as you're working out properly, a significant amount of that will be muscle. I would stick with it. You get to eat a ton of tasty stuff, you're getting stronger, and you're minimising fat gains while slowly gaining muscle. That's the perfect situation!

Thanks for sharing your experience. Good to know I'm in good company in slooowly putting on weight. I thought I could bulk for 3-4 months but seems like I'm now understanding that I should go for as long as I'm comfortable with it...8 months maybe?

Is it normal to be hungry all the time even when ya hitting ya cal and macro needs? I seem to just wanna eat and eat and eat..tried drinking water to suppress my appetite. I gained a little too quick on 2200 cals so dropped them to 2100 but even at 2200 cals I was still hungry alot. Bare in mind I jumped from 1200 (and less) to what im on now.

Also apologies to freebirdmac that I keep piping up with questions all the time.

I'm alllllways hungry too I can't go anywhere without snacks, just like a toddler :P

[happyplace]

Thanks for sharing your experience. Good to know I'm in good company in slooowly putting on weight. I thought I could bulk for 3-4 months but seems like I'm now understanding that I should go for as long as I'm comfortable with it...8 months maybe?

Depends how long you can hold this slow rate of gains. Honestly, if you can stay sane at 1lb per month, you can bulk for at least a year. Yep, really. However if you're gaining faster, you'll get more fat gains, so you'll feel squishy, and it will be a less efficient bulk in that regard...chances are you'll feel the need to cut before too long. If you read this thread, you'll notice that the ladies who bulked slowly were able to sustain it the longest and seemingly had fewer psychological problems with gaining.

There will be those who will try and tell you that you're doing it wrong unless you get fat, but that's simply one opinion and, while fun (because you can eat a ton), isnt everyone's long term ideal situation. Personally I love that I didn't need to cut after my bulk. I am still at 18-19% fat because I took it slow enough and benefitted from some newbie gains, so I gained about 3-4lb fat the whole time. (Also, I am one of those lucky people who build muscle easily.) next time around I'd expect more fat gains but I'll save that for when it's necessary.

[freebirdmac]

Depends how long you can hold this slow rate of gains. Honestly, if you can stay sane at 1lb per month, you can bulk for at least a year. Yep, really. However if you're gaining faster, you'll get more fat gains, so you'll feel squishy, and it will be a less efficient bulk in that regard...chances are you'll feel the need to cut before too long. If you read this thread, you'll notice that the ladies who bulked slowly were able to sustain it the longest and seemingly had fewer psychological problems with gaining.

There will be those who will try and tell you that you're doing it wrong unless you get fat, but that's simply one opinion and, while fun (because you can eat a ton), isnt everyone's long term ideal situation. Personally I love that I didn't need to cut after my bulk. I am still at 18-19% fat because I took it slow enough and benefitted from some newbie gains, so I gained about 3-4lb fat the whole time. (Also, I am one of those lucky people who build muscle easily.) next time around I'd expect more fat gains but I'll save that for when it's necessary.

It's not less efficient if you get squishy. Nor are you necessarily maxing your muscle gains by bulking slowly. The whole point of eating at a surplus is to maximize muscle gains. To do this you have to ensure that your body always has all the fuel and nutrients it needs. Since we don't have built in meters to tell us when we've eaten to that goal we look for fat gains. Fat gains are the meter. No, no one needs to get "fat" while bulking. That's over eating for some other purpose. Gaining at the rate of 1/2 pound a week is only a max of 12 pounds over 6 months. Maybe half of that needs to be taken back off after a bulk to return to your original bf level. Some, who were under weight to begin with or too lean, don't even have to lose that much.

One of the challenges of bulking is losing the whole focus on body fat. Too many try to uber control fat gains and they do limit their gains. Without a doubt. Gaining muscle is so hard that no one needs to shoot themselves in the foot over a few pounds of fat. Even newbies who are the only ones who gain muscle easily shouldn't do this. Everyone has a psychological battle with bulking. Each has to decide what they can live with. One can gain muscle on a small surplus and even at a deficit. However, the choice to hold back on fat gains most assuredly limits muscle gains.

I also have to point out happyplace that you are coming from an ED background which means your situation and experiences need to be starred. You have to be careful about applying your experiences thus far to others who don't have that background.

[happyplace]

It's not less efficient if you get squishy. Nor are you necessarily maxing your muscle gains by bulking slowly. The whole point of eating at a surplus is to maximize muscle gains. To do this you have to ensure that your body always has all the fuel and nutrients it needs. Since we don't have built in meters to tell us when we've eaten to that goal we look for fat gains. Fat gains are the meter. No, no one needs to get "fat" while bulking. That's over eating for some other purpose. Gaining at the rate of 1/2 pound a week is only a max of 12 pounds over 6 months. Maybe half of that needs to be taken back off after a bulk to return to your original bf level. Some, who were under weight to begin with or too lean, don't even have to lose that much.

There is no reason to gain at a rate above which you'll gain noticable fat unless you have a deadline to meet. In the long term, it's efficient to bulk slowly because it makes cutting easier. For anyone who has a life or a family outside of the gym, that's a huge consideration. Never mind the psychological benefits.

I also have to point out happyplace that you are coming from an ED background which means your situation and experiences need to be starred. You have to be careful about applying your experiences thus far to others who don't have that background.

I bulked after I recovered. I pointed this out to you numerous times. I'm not sure why you feel the need to point it out as it's irrelevant. Do you have a problem with the way I bulked because I did it successfully and yet stayed relatively lean? I don't see you exactly jumping on the bulking bandwagon so who are you to criticise and judge me, and make assumptions about the legitimacy of my success?

[LHarwood]

There is no reason to gain at a rate above which you'll gain noticable fat unless you have a deadline to meet. In the long term, it's efficient to bulk slowly because it makes cutting easier. For anyone who has a life or a family outside of the gym, that's a huge consideration. Never mind the psychological benefits.



I bulked after I recovered. I pointed this out to you numerous times. I'm not sure why you feel the need to point it out as it's irrelevant. Do you have a problem with the way I bulked because I did it successfully and yet stayed relatively lean? I don't see you exactly jumping on the bulking bandwagon so who are you to criticise and judge me, and make assumptions about the legitimacy of my success?

I think the ED comment made you reply irrationally here. I think freebirdmac has made a valid point to be honest. I dont think she has a problem with the way you bulked at all. I think she was pointing out the other way to do it. Also she is one of the most experienced women in here in terms of bulking knowledge and has been on the 'bulking bandwagon' plenty of times.

Your way of bulking is successful for you nd could be to others and I can appreciate that so please dont bite my head off for piping in here.

[happyplace]

I think the ED comment made you reply irrationally here. I think freebirdmac has made a valid point to be honest. I dont think she has a problem with the way you bulked at all. I think she was pointing out the other way to do it. Also she is one of the most experienced women in here in terms of bulking knowledge and has been on the 'bulking bandwagon' plenty of times.

Your way of bulking is successful for you nd could be to others and I can appreciate that so please dont bite my head off for piping in here.

The way I bulked has precisely NOTHING to do with my ED history. So why does she continue to bring it up? I chose to bulk that way because I think it's the smartest way to bulk since a) I have a life, b) I hate cutting and c) My job requires me to frequently go on stage wearing expensive clothes which I can't afford to not fit into.

[megdaig]

Our fat to muscle partitioning is fairly set by genetics. If you are gaining muscle you are gaining proportionally the same amount of fat, regardless of how slow you are gaining. The only time you gain MORE fat is by gaining faster than your genetic potential to increase muscle.

For example...

You are genetically capable of gaining 1# of muscle a month, you maximize that potential and gain 2# (1# each muscle and fat). Or you gain 1# a month (1/2# each), yet you didn't maximize your potential. That's how your body partitions....

Now the same person gains 3# in a month (1# muscle and 2# fat). Muscle gain is the rate limiting step...

But it is highly unlikely that you will gain 1# of muscle if all you gained was 1# a month as calorie partitioning is almost 50/50 fat to muscle. It's all about the P-ratio....this goes the same for how much muscle we lose when cutting.

[DaniGrrl]

11 days out and I am in a constant hunger. One more day with veggies in my meals and then it is on to the last phase....god help me get through it!!

Hang in there, girl!!!!! You got this!!!

I seem to be hungry a lot while bulking, too. It made me think I wasn't eating enough and I raised my calories slightly, plus I had hit a plateau where I didn't gain anything for 3 weeks. I then gained a pound, and last week I jumped up a pound and a half. Yikes. I felt squishy for a couple days so probably water, but seeing that big jump was a mindfuk. LOL Some days I feel awesome, I still feel thin and tha it does not look like I've gained 12 pounds. Other days, I feel like a huge whale. I'm plugging along, though. My plan is to go to June 1 which would be 7 months, and evaluate how much I've gained, how I feel, etc., and then decide whether I want to cut, hang at maintenance for the summer, keep bulking. I'm not going to make any final decisions on it just yet - there's no point as it's only been 5 months.

[LHarwood]

The way I bulked has precisely NOTHING to do with my ED history. So why does she continue to bring it up? I chose to bulk that way because I think it's the smartest way to bulk since a) I have a life, b) I hate cutting and c) My job requires me to frequently go on stage wearing expensive clothes which I can't afford to not fit into.

I think when someone has had an ED people automatically assume the choices people make with food after recocery is there to prevent any triggers? Thats just my guess. I dont think freebirdmac meant any offence, maybe concern but definatly not to be rude to you or make you feel offended.

I can understand your way of bulking with your lifestyle (not ED as your past that) maybe FBM didnt know the other reasons behind your way of bulking. Either way I think youve taken what she said to heart.

[dreahere]

I'm alllllways hungry too I can't go anywhere without snacks, just like a toddler :P

This made me smile. I'm picturing you with a baggie full of goldfish or cheerios in your purse. And maybe a juice box.

[LHarwood]

Hang in there, girl!!!!! You got this!!!

I seem to be hungry a lot while bulking, too. It made me think I wasn't eating enough and I raised my calories slightly, plus I had hit a plateau where I didn't gain anything for 3 weeks. I then gained a pound, and last week I jumped up a pound and a half. Yikes. I felt squishy for a couple days so probably water, but seeing that big jump was a mindfuk. LOL Some days I feel awesome, I still feel thin and tha it does not look like I've gained 12 pounds. Other days, I feel like a huge whale. I'm plugging along, though. My plan is to go to June 1 which would be 7 months, and evaluate how much I've gained, how I feel, etc., and then decide whether I want to cut, hang at maintenance for the summer, keep bulking. I'm not going to make any final decisions on it just yet - there's no point as it's only been 5 months.

I can completely relate to this. Today im having a 'feeling strong and not too fat' day the other day was a 'push me back in the sea with the other beached whales' lol. I was gonna bulk til May/june but ive decided to bulk til the end of july then maintain til October 1st then bulk til April/May..

[happyplace]

Our fat to muscle partitioning is fairly set by genetics. If you are gaining muscle you are gaining proportionally the same amount of fat, regardless of how slow you are gaining. The only time you gain MORE fat is by gaining faster than your genetic potential to increase muscle.

For example...

You are genetically capable of gaining 1# of muscle a month, you maximize that potential and gain 2# (1# each muscle and fat). Or you gain 1# a month (1/2# each), yet you didn't maximize your potential. That's how your body partitions....

Now the same person gains 3# in a month (1# muscle and 2# fat). Muscle gain is the rate limiting step...

But it is highly unlikely that you will gain 1# of muscle if all you gained was 1# a month as calorie partitioning is almost 50/50 fat to muscle. It's all about the P-ratio....this goes the same for how much muscle we lose when cutting.

If this is true...I gained 23lbs and only 3-4 of fat (DEXA measured)...does this mean I can basically bulk away forever and be assured that if I stick to 2lbs a month, I will keep on gaining the same proportionate amount of muscle:fat?

[happyplace]

I think when someone has had an ED people automatically assume the choices people make with food after recocery is there to prevent any triggers? Thats just my guess. I dont think freebirdmac meant any offence, maybe concern but definatly not to be rude to you or make you feel offended.

I can understand your way of bulking with your lifestyle (not ED as your past that) maybe FBM didnt know the other reasons behind your way of bulking. Either way I think youve taken what she said to heart.

FBM either has a memory loss problem or she knows full well and has some problem with me for whatever reason. We have covered this ground many times. Trust me, when you go through ED recovery and then decide to try a bulk afterwards, and people belittle your progress and success because of something totally unrelated, it's humiliating and frustrating. Of course I will take it to heart. It's not like my bulk *was* my recovery. It came later, when I decided that I was done being skinny fat - you know, exactly like most other people who decide to bulk.

Assuming things is never smart. Passing things off as assumptions when the person concerned knows exactly what they're saying and who they're dealing with is not smart, and also offensive in this case.

[cmg1976]

Our fat to muscle partitioning is fairly set by genetics. If you are gaining muscle you are gaining proportionally the same amount of fat, regardless of how slow you are gaining. The only time you gain MORE fat is by gaining faster than your genetic potential to increase muscle.

For example...

You are genetically capable of gaining 1# of muscle a month, you maximize that potential and gain 2# (1# each muscle and fat). Or you gain 1# a month (1/2# each), yet you didn't maximize your potential. That's how your body partitions....

Now the same person gains 3# in a month (1# muscle and 2# fat). Muscle gain is the rate limiting step...

But it is highly unlikely that you will gain 1# of muscle if all you gained was 1# a month as calorie partitioning is almost 50/50 fat to muscle. It's all about the P-ratio....this goes the same for how much muscle we lose when cutting.

Interesting- I hadn't really thought about it that way. But since you can't really know how much muscle you are gaining as you go, and 1# a month is about the most muscle a woman can add, it would really argue for a solid 2# a month to maximize muscle gains, but not more, right? Just want to make sure I'm following you

[megdaig]

Interesting- I hadn't really thought about it that way. But since you can't really know how much muscle you are gaining as you go, and 1# a month is about the most muscle a woman can add, it would really argue for a solid 2# a month to maximize muscle gains, but not more, right? Just want to make sure I'm following you

Yup. But who knows even then if you still are maximizing gains. Maybe you aren't training properly....but at least you know it isn't your diet that is limiting.

[schnauzers]

I'm enjoying reading along; very helpful info ladies.

One of the challenges of bulking is losing the whole focus on body fat. Too many try to uber control fat gains and they do limit their gains. Without a doubt. Gaining muscle is so hard that no one needs to shoot themselves in the foot over a few pounds of fat.

Great points and I will need to remember this. Since it's harder to gain muscle than lose fat, I needn't worry about the fat I gain bc it'll be easier to lose that than it was to gain any muscle I put on.

This made me smile. I'm picturing you with a baggie full of goldfish or cheerios in your purse. And maybe a juice box.

He he...more like a variety of containers containing some cottage cheese or greek yogurt, nuts, fruit, hummus, lol. I go through so many little containers I think I run the dishwasher every day.

[rachelily]

Yeah it probs is a mental thing. Ive got a jar of pb in the fridge and im sure I can hear it shouting 'come in and eat me' haha. Ill be interested to see how I do when I cut..suppose I should make the most of the bulk really.

I'm interested to see how my cut goes too .. I've been having to eat so much to gain that I'm NEVER hungry and it drives me nuts! I hate eating a full meal when I'm not hungry at all. A part of me is looking forward to finally being hungry for meals again when cutting lol! But I'm sure one day of that will be enough then I'll want to eat all the things again.

[AbbyJewell1987]

Is there a cutting thread for women that's just as informational as this!?

[dreahere]

Is there a cutting thread for women that's just as informational as this!?

There is a cutting thread, but it's never been as active. Let me see if I can bump it for you.

[moogs]

Good morning bulkers,

I'm officially joining this thread today :-) hoping to slap on some muscle after being in a deficit for almost 6 months. I did my first cut from October to March and am in the process of reversing out and increasing my calories slowly. It will be nice to finally add some muscle rather than just trying to maintain it. The only reason I dieted was to make room to bulk without being obese (I didn't have aesthetic goals), so the last six months have been basically sitting around waiting to get skinny so I could start this bulk. HOORAH! The time has come.

I work 80-100 hours a week sitting at a desk so I am completely sedentary outside the gym and get 4 hours sleep a night on average. Aiming for 5 weights sessions a week and of course ZERO CARDIO.

My first cut results are here: "Finished my first cut!!! 27% to 15% bodyfat (female) - Pics inside!" http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=152714393


DEXA Results:


My bulking goals are:
Deadlift 100kg (220lbs)
Squat 80kg (180lbs)
Bench 60kg (130lbs)

I am a long way off but I plan to bulk for quite a long time so hopefully I can reach these goals by the end.

[cmg1976]

Good morning bulkers,

I'm officially joining this thread today :-) hoping to slap on some muscle after being in a deficit for almost 6 months. I did my first cut from October to March and am in the process of reversing out and increasing my calories slowly. It will be nice to finally add some muscle rather than just trying to maintain it. The only reason I dieted was to make room to bulk without being obese (I didn't have aesthetic goals), so the last six months have been basically sitting around waiting to get skinny so I could start this bulk. HOORAH! The time has come.

I work 80-100 hours a week sitting at a desk so I am completely sedentary outside the gym and get 4 hours sleep a night on average. Aiming for 5 weights sessions a week and of course ZERO CARDIO.

My first cut results are here: "Finished my first cut!!! 27% to 15% bodyfat (female) - Pics inside!" http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=152714393


DEXA Results:


My bulking goals are:
Deadlift 100kg (220lbs)
Squat 80kg (180lbs)
Bench 60kg (130lbs)

I am a long way off but I plan to bulk for quite a long time so hopefully I can reach these goals by the end.

I have a feeling you are going to great on your bulk. Have you picked a lifting program yet?

[moogs]

I have a feeling you are going to great on your bulk. Have you picked a lifting program yet?

I hope so, its just going to be tough with my crazy work hours and little sleep.

I am going to keep running my current program which is
1) heavy hams and glutes (light quads)
2) vertical push and pull (shoulders and lats)
3) heavy quads (light hams and glutes)
4) horizontal push and pull (chest and rows/upper back)
5) arms (bis/tris/abs) - optional day

I use 5/3/1 and have reset all of my lifts to much lower levels hoping to start fresh and build back up starting off easy :-)

[AbbyJewell1987]

There is a cutting thread, but it's never been as active. Let me see if I can bump it for you.

Thank you!!! I want to educate myself on cutting for when I'm ready so I'm not clueless!

[cmg1976]

I hope so, its just going to be tough with my crazy work hours and little sleep.

I am going to keep running my current program which is
1) heavy hams and glutes (light quads)
2) vertical push and pull (shoulders and lats)
3) heavy quads (light hams and glutes)
4) horizontal push and pull (chest and rows/upper back)
5) arms (bis/tris/abs) - optional day

I use 5/3/1 and have reset all of my lifts to much lower levels hoping to start fresh and build back up starting off easy :-)

5/3/1 is on my to-try list, along with probably 3 others, lol. You have a solid plan and I can't wait to see your results

[LHarwood]

Good morning bulkers,

I'm officially joining this thread today :-) hoping to slap on some muscle after being in a deficit for almost 6 months. I did my first cut from October to March and am in the process of reversing out and increasing my calories slowly. It will be nice to finally add some muscle rather than just trying to maintain it. The only reason I dieted was to make room to bulk without being obese (I didn't have aesthetic goals), so the last six months have been basically sitting around waiting to get skinny so I could start this bulk. HOORAH! The time has come.

I work 80-100 hours a week sitting at a desk so I am completely sedentary outside the gym and get 4 hours sleep a night on average. Aiming for 5 weights sessions a week and of course ZERO CARDIO.

My first cut results are here: "Finished my first cut!!! 27% to 15% bodyfat (female) - Pics inside!" http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=152714393


DEXA Results:


My bulking goals are:
Deadlift 100kg (220lbs)
Squat 80kg (180lbs)
Bench 60kg (130lbs)

I am a long way off but I plan to bulk for quite a long time so hopefully I can reach these goals by the end.

Hi moogs. Good luck with ya bulk. You will do great..I know it :-D

[schnauzers]

Good morning bulkers,

I'm officially joining this thread today :-) hoping to slap on some muscle after being in a deficit for almost 6 months. I did my first cut from October to March and am in the process of reversing out and increasing my calories slowly. It will be nice to finally add some muscle rather than just trying to maintain it. The only reason I dieted was to make room to bulk without being obese (I didn't have aesthetic goals), so the last six months have been basically sitting around waiting to get skinny so I could start this bulk. HOORAH! The time has come.

I work 80-100 hours a week sitting at a desk so I am completely sedentary outside the gym and get 4 hours sleep a night on average. Aiming for 5 weights sessions a week and of course ZERO CARDIO.

My first cut results are here: "Finished my first cut!!! 27% to 15% bodyfat (female) - Pics inside!" http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=152714393

[/IMG]

My bulking goals are:
Deadlift 100kg (220lbs)
Squat 80kg (180lbs)
Bench 60kg (130lbs)

I am a long way off but I plan to bulk for quite a long time so hopefully I can reach these goals by the end.

I thought your cutting goals were amazing so I can't wait to see how your bulk goes!

Are you going to continue using a coach for the bulk?

I really like your bulking goals for lifting. What sorts of weights are you starting with? I ask because I'm curious about how much strength you plan to gain during your bulk and how long you think it'll take. Eating more definitely makes me feel stronger and little by little I am lifting more weight but it's still slow going, kwim?
__________________________________________________ ________________________

Hope I can ask a stoopid question....if junky foods (chips, chocolates) really fit within one's macro and calories, does it matter much that it's junk? I don't really feel guilty for stuffing my face with chips every now but am I doing myself a disservice by thinking 'Meh, I'm 'bulking', I'll take all the calories I can get'? My guess is that it's only 'bad' if food (any food good or bad) puts me SO far over my recommended calorie intake that I end up bulking too fast by packing on fat quickly.

[Neezaa]

Took progress pics earlier so I thought I'd share them.

I need to lift heavier. Time to regather my forces and go harder in the paint.

From Jan:


Earlier today: Around ~118lbs.


Reading this thread just motivated me even more. Great job everyone!

[moogs]

5/3/1 is on my to-try list, along with probably 3 others, lol. You have a solid plan and I can't wait to see your results

Hi moogs. Good luck with ya bulk. You will do great..I know it :-D

I thought your cutting goals were amazing so I can't wait to see how your bulk goes!

Thank you! The pressure is on me now ☺

Are you going to continue using a coach for the bulk?

I really like your bulking goals for lifting. What sorts of weights are you starting with? I ask because I'm curious about how much strength you plan to gain during your bulk and how long you think it'll take. Eating more definitely makes me feel stronger and little by little I am lifting more weight but it's still slow going, kwim?

No, I will be doing it on my own. I plan to bulk for (hopefully) 8-12 months.

My bulking goals are:
Deadlift 100kg (220lbs) - currently 85kg
Squat 80kg (180lbs) - currently 60kg
Bench 60kg (130lbs) - currently 50kg

I don’t know if I am being unrealistic, however I have been in a deficit for 6 months now and I am sure my strength will shoot up with the extra food and no cardio. If I can squat 60kg deep in a cut doing 3 x HIIT sessions a week then surely I can squat 80kg after a year of bulking? Who knows… time will tell. I’d rather have goals that are too high rather than too low.

[schnauzers]

^Great plan!

Does your gym have fractional plates? Mine doesn't yet and it makes it super annoying with moving my bench press forward little by little because I can't always go up in 5lb increments. We have two sets of clips in the gym and one set weighs 1lbs and another weighs 2.5 lbs but they aren't always available.