A thought about the universe and our species that kind of just popped in my head.

[ShackaBrah]

You bros should read "what is Man" by Mark Twain. It's free to read online and only takes 2-3 hours to finish. Gets pretty deep on the topic of free will.

[Redwood67]

Yeah but what if the Matrix was real and we're in it!?

[bottle_cap]

mind = absolutely obliterated. What in the actual f*ck. My concept of God is now warped. How could that guy even come up with this sh*t??? Must have had the intelligence of Einstein srs

My mind was blown as well

isaac asimov is an awesome dude, he's the writer of I Robot

[STEALTHCAT]

I always said that our brain is far too complex for the universe.

I always looked at it as if the brain in seeking to understand itself in the most logical way possible, has followed a certain set of parameters when describing anything.(Ie: everything in the universe only follows a certain logic, the complexity of everything is broken down into the most logical pattern possible which is largest to smallest. from solar systems to biology to ecosystems to every transportation system, computer networks, religion etc)

Essentially what im saying is that in order for the brain to grasp some sense of why it exists it is "projecting" itself on to the universe. i dunno if this makes any sense but meh

close. It's not the brain who is trying to figure out itself and all its glory. It is God who is trying to learn about itself. We are fragments of this higher all knowing divine source ppl chose to call God. This super consciousness is eternally learning about itself. We are fragments of this source, hence why we really are all one. We are here learning about ourselves on different planes. This 3rd plane/denisty is this planet and its world and under the Law of Duality we are learning about ourselves , love and compassion, suffering, happiness, etc etc. You are basically living a matrix experience in order to understand these extreme emotions and therefor learn about ourselves/god/the divine, call it what u will.

All is well in the very end. The highest possible vibrations to reach for are that of love/compassion. Everything stems from this super vibration/one creator.divine source. We are all a fragment of this energy learning in this difficult 3rd density planet/world. The lessons learnt here and experiences is what it's all about.

You soul matix will carry these in your soul memory and you move on and on and on infinitely learning via different lives/planes/dimensions etc.

Those who are trying to figure things out via 21st century science and logic are wasting their time. Universe is way more complex than the science that some talk about here. Don't be fooled into thinking that there must be an answer for everything cos science will explain it. Science explains how certain things may happen, but fails to explain why.

[Mirinmebrahs]

lol at believing this bs. science always changes. lol at these scientist thinking they know that universe is finite or anything about the universe. yet cant figure out how to make my chitty internet not lag in 2013

Everything has a beginning and an end. It is a known fact that our galaxy is spinning around a black-hole that will eventually destroy it. What's to say that this won't eventually happen to the universe? It's so unstable as it is, basically none of it makes sense in the first place. I would side with the hundreds of scientists that work at Cern, rather than take your opinion, no offense.
I have no idea what the above poster is talking about ^

[lucious]

read this bro. Its something I spent a fair bit of time working on and got input from some other peeps, one another scientist and a philosophy phd candidate. another miscer chimed in and it got even better past page 2. It may have what youre looking for. Not big notin myself here(its a collaborative work) but its one of the closest things ive ever seen which makes a serious attempt at rectifying science, existence, ultimate questions in an integrative format.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...ight=existence

[lucious]

if youre interested in getting a better grip on this try this little exercise:

spend the next half hour immersing yourself in ideas/philosophiers which dont adhere to your westernised aristotelian worldviews and metaphysical systems. try these for starters, most if not all can be wiki'ed

taosim
it from bit
emergentism
retrocausality
dual aspect monism
holographic theory
ontological co emergence
process philosophy


give those a read and tell me your queries about existence havent been given a shot in the arm

[crosso]

Op you're really quiet ignorant. Scientists know what thought is, it can be seen on an MRI lol. When you think of something "new", your brain fires a synapse between several brain cells, and it's path is that thought. if you think of it again, the same cell fires another synapse and it follows the same path. this has been demonstrated in countless experiments. if you think of something else, it obviously fires from somewhere else and follows a different path.
you probably won't believe me though but oh well, your loss.

there has also been experiments, where a person is offered two choices, and the segment of the brain associated with a certain choice is already active before the person thinks they have made a choice. i don't know if this proves or disproves free will, but interesting nonetheless, that our brain has already made the decision before we're consciously aware of the choice.

[lucious]

"I am thinking" is the same thing as "It's raining". Mull over that for awhile and you first realise there is no 'its' in its raining, similarly 'i'm thinking' is an artificact of language.

there is just thinking.

[faxanadu]

Everything has a beginning and an end. It is a known fact that our galaxy is spinning around a black-hole that will eventually destroy it. What's to say that this won't eventually happen to the universe? It's so unstable as it is, basically none of it makes sense in the first place. I would side with the hundreds of scientists that work at Cern, rather than take your opinion, no offense.
I have no idea what the above poster is talking about ^

That's contradictory to everything i've heard lately which is, "The universe always existed."

[faxanadu]

Op you're really quiet ignorant. Scientists know what thought is, it can be seen on an MRI lol. When you think of something "new", your brain fires a synapse between several brain cells, and it's path is that thought. if you think of it again, the same cell fires another synapse and it follows the same path. this has been demonstrated in countless experiments. if you think of something else, it obviously fires from somewhere else and follows a different path.
you probably won't believe me though but oh well, your loss.

there has also been experiments, where a person is offered two choices, and the segment of the brain associated with a certain choice is already active before the person thinks they have made a choice. i don't know if this proves or disproves free will, but interesting nonetheless, that our brain has already made the decision before we're consciously aware of the choice.

Dear god. When are you people going to realize that observation ~= knowing/understanding. Seeing a kiss ~= kissing. Think about it.

Just because the brain has activity ~= a decision has been made.

I have to start the engine before i can press the gas and turn the wheels.

[faxanadu]

"I am thinking" is the same thing as "It's raining". Mull over that for awhile and you first realise there is no 'its' in its raining, similarly 'i'm thinking' is an artificact of language.

there is just thinking.

[sgregor249]

they say that if you know the position and velocity of every particle in the universe then you know the state of everything for all time, and thus free wil does not exist. of course the uncertainty principle forbids anything from ever knowing this. as a person i have trouble grasping how knowing the above can mean you know the future of everything, when i have the free will to move my arm to the left or the right at this point in time. can anyone explain this to me?

is it because the particles in my brain that form my thoughts are already in motion so my arms path is predetermined? i feel as though i have the ability to control my thoughts. is that not true?

[germanyt]

Some say the universe is random. Some say it's just very complex and that life (something that is considered random by many) was inevitable.

Neil Degrass Tyson's thinks the size of the universe is simply too vast, and that we're literally star dust (stars blow up, creating more stars and planets and eventually life - we're made up of the same stuff as stars) that there must be life out there. Sounds very systematic if put this way.

Us being made of star dust isn't a thought. It's quite real. The only elements at the very early stages of the universe were hydrogen and helium. No other element existed until the first supernova. All of the carbon, iron, oxygen, etc that is in your body was forged in the collapse and explosion of a dying star.

[lucious]

read my linked thread before you accuse me of potato, bro

[Athos1]

You can say we have free will and make our own choices,

But the person we are and the choices we make are simply the result of our genetics and experiences.


We like to think of 'you' and 'me', but if you had my genetics and experiences you would be me

[armoBOSSDOGG]

ITT OP has yet to understand the vastness and complexity of the universe, as well as overemphasizing Man's importance in said universe.

[faxanadu]

read my linked thread before you accuse me of potato, bro

whats potato?

[faxanadu]

ITT OP has yet to understand the vastness and complexity of the universe, as well as overemphasizing Man's importance in said universe.

Or maybe people underestimate us.

[Ricky116]

I have only read the first post, but the OP is unknowingly talking about the Anthropic Principle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle

I can't remember who it was, but a prominent 20th century physicist speculated a kind of universal casual loop, where sentient-observation gives reality to not only now, but way back until creation. This is to explain the apparent proposition that if quantum mechanics is correct and the universe is in a superposition of all possible states until measured by an 'outside' observer (sentience), then there is a clear paradox in that the universe's state could not have been brought about in such a way to produce sentience because everything before sentience is undefined.

So, we are here to observe the universe because there can be no universe without us here to observe it (according to most interpretations of QM).

EDIT: On re-reading, perhaps not the anthropic principle, but certainly related and my post still concerns the effect sentience on the universe.

[Merauder]

Nice thought but free will isn't real

[faxanadu]

Nice thought but free will isn't real

I keep seeing a bunch of people say this. I honestly don't believe any of you believe it though.

1. Nothing beyond this life
2. No control in this life

Your existence is meaningless then.

inb4 someone comes back and says, "Not true I can better my family and the human race." I? I? ... you have no free will ... there is no "I" anymore.

[Ricky116]

And for the 1000th time I end the thread. Fuk

[lucious]

I have only read the first post, but the OP is unknowingly talking about the Anthropic Principle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle

I can't remember who it was, but a prominent 20th century physicist speculated a kind of universal casual loop, where sentient-observation gives reality to not only now, but way back until creation. This is to explain the apparent proposition that if quantum mechanics is correct and the universe is in a superposition of all possible states until measured by an 'outside' observer (sentience), then there is a clear paradox in that the universe's state could not have been brought about in such a way to produce sentience because everything before sentience is undefined.

So, we are here to observe the universe because there can be no universe without us here to observe it (according to most interpretations of QM).

EDIT: On re-reading, perhaps not the anthropic principle, but certainly related and my post still concerns the effect sentience on the universe.

Thats John Wheeler bro, see it from bit