|
-
02-24-2018, 05:55 AM #241
-
02-24-2018, 07:03 AM #242
I am all for hunter's safety and both my boys went through it but most that get their hands on guns are not the ones that take this course.
hahaha...I agree
amen
I think most of us would like to see a Preventitive instead of reactionary program put into place into schools that actually works but what to include in that is a topic of contant debate and most schools are scrambling in the aftermath of these shootings trying to figure this out
concealed carry is not a new idea for school staff and I am not against it but it comes with risks and many feel that by bringing a gun into a school it will increase the chances of a student getting ahold of it and using it
-
02-24-2018, 07:18 AM #243
If we can agree on the idea that teachers with CHLs should be allowed to carry and can be an effective deterrent to shooters then a easy compromise can be found on the "how".
Install safes on teachers desks that have a life alert feature that auto calls 911 any time it's opened during school hours and places the school on lockdown. Teachers place the firearm into the safe before school officially starts, keep the firearm in the safe, are able to protect themselves effectively should an emergency arise, and it will auto call 911. Sounds like a great system and compromise to me. I am sure there are other ways as well."it's likely one of us will have to spend some days alone"
-
02-24-2018, 08:12 AM #244
-
-
02-24-2018, 01:25 PM #245
Kids who want guns can get guns. We have more than enough evidence to support this. A teacher having access to a defensive weapon is no more dangerous than the average cop having it. Most cops go through their entire careers having not shot and killed someone.
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.If you poke a bear in the eye, expect a bear like response.
-
02-24-2018, 01:57 PM #246
-
02-24-2018, 02:10 PM #247
There is nothing wrong with being concerned. There is risk. There is always risk. But, we have to weigh those risks against the risk of a school being shot up.
Qualified and trained teachers would not have to worry about a student getting hold of the gun, unless the teacher broke policy by laying it around.
What solution is worth the risk that saving lives or some lives?Helping one person may not change the world, but it could change the world for one person.
-
02-24-2018, 02:17 PM #248
I’m concerned as hell. I work in a school. I know the difficulty of securing a large building full of kids. Not a single day goes by when we aren’t thinking about it, and talking about it, and on some level, preparing for it.
I am the ALICE/response drill coordinator for my building.
Trust me, I’m concerned about it.If you poke a bear in the eye, expect a bear like response.
-
-
02-24-2018, 02:20 PM #249
- Join Date: Dec 2006
- Location: South Carolina, United States
- Age: 44
- Posts: 18,170
- Rep Power: 161298
If a particular teacher wants to have a weapon in the classroom, by all means it should be entertained. If not, that should be their right as well. For me, I just want AT LEAST 1 gun in the school. It would be preferable to have 4-6, but even a single gun can potentially change the dynamics of the situation. I’ve watched enough “shootouts” online at this point that I realize if you are being attacked by an amateur, just firing in their general direction can buy time for the police to get there.
If a school doesn’t want guns in the hands of the teachers, that’s cool. I can see the safety concerns for having them in the classroom. But I want at least 1 gun kept in the principle’s office or somewhere like that. Maybe Mr. Jones the PE teacher can’t carry his own gun, but he knows where to go get one if hell breaks loose.
I am not necessarily comfortable with a single officer rushing into that situation. He has no clue how many gunmen there are or what the situation is inside the building. I’m okay with him waiting for backup. In this case my understanding is 3 additional officers arrived on the scene and they posted up outside as well.ALL I ASK IS ALL YOU GOT FOR AS LONG AS IT TAKES
-
02-24-2018, 02:26 PM #250
-
02-24-2018, 02:33 PM #251
Like those four cops did? They're considerably more trained and ''qualified'' than any of these teachers would have been, and they did nothing. I think that many people from what I've seen on the news, and even on here, seem to believe this idea that everyday, average teachers after a gun class or two, will somehow turn into CIA agents, protecting entire schools at a moment's notice. And everyone will escape unscathed. It doesn't work that way.
-
02-24-2018, 02:44 PM #252
-
-
02-24-2018, 02:48 PM #253
-
02-24-2018, 02:51 PM #254
Actually I’ve seen statistics for CCL vs police on a variety of things. CCL have much better hit ratio, less innocent bystanders, and overall CCL holders are more law abiding than police in terms of arrests of CCL holders vs active police. The hit ratio and innocent bystander ratio is partially better because of rules of engagement. A CCL holder is typically shooting someone at feet away rather than yards away, so there’s that.
-
02-24-2018, 03:00 PM #255
I'm not disputing your point, but I think those cops may have acted differently if they had found themselves suddenly closer to the business end of an AR like those teachers did. I'm not defending those cowards just pointing out that teachers would be right there in the action and in a position where reacting beats the alternative.
Some of the Teachers in Florida were hero's without weapons, I think they would have done everything possible with a weaponLast edited by mtpockets; 02-24-2018 at 03:11 PM.
𝓐𝓲𝓻 𝓕𝓸𝓻𝓬𝓮 𝓥𝓮𝓽𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓷 1976 - 1999 - 𝓒𝓪𝓷𝓷𝓪𝓫𝓲𝓼 𝓔𝓷𝓽𝓱𝓾𝓼𝓲𝓪𝓼𝓽 𝓼𝓲𝓷𝓬𝓮 𝓽𝓱𝓮 1960'𝓼
ᖇᗴ丅Ꭵᖇᗴᗪ ᗩ丅 40 ᑕᖇᗴᗯ - ᔕᗝᑕᎥᗩᒪ ᗪᎥᔕ丅ᗩᑎᑕᎥᑎǤ ᗴ᙭ᑭᗴᖇ丅 - ᒪᎥᐯᎥᑎǤ 丅ᕼᗴ ᗪᖇᗴᗩᗰ
ƚo| ɒ ꙅɿɘʞʞuꟻ bᴎɒ ɿɘʞʞuꟻ ꙅᴎuoᴎoɿq ɿɘbᴎɘǫ ɘʜƚ ɘꙅu I
𝕀 𝕕𝕠𝕟'𝕥 𝕒𝕝𝕨𝕒𝕪𝕤 𝕒𝕘𝕣𝕖𝕖 𝕨𝕚𝕥𝕙 𝕥𝕙𝕖 𝕞𝕖𝕞𝕖𝕤 𝕀 𝕡𝕠𝕤𝕥
🄸 🅃🄴🄻🄻 🄸🅃 🄻🄸🄺🄴 🄸🅃 🄸🅂, 🄸🄵 🅈🄾🅄 🅆🄰🄽🅃 🅂🄼🄾🄺🄴 🄱🄻🄾🅆🄽 🅄🄿 🅈🄾🅄🅁 🄰🅂🅂 🄾🅁 🅂🄾🄼🄴🅃🄷🄸🄽🄶 🅂🅄🄶🄰🅁 🄲🄾🄰🅃🄴🄳. 🄸 🅂🅄🄶🄶🄴🅂🅃 🅈🄾🅄 🄶🄴🅃 🄰 🄷🄾🄾🄺🄴🅁 🄰🄽🄳 🄰 🄿🄾🅆🄳🄴🅁🄴🄳 🄳🄾🄽🅄🅃
-
02-24-2018, 03:18 PM #256
Think you're right on this.
I saw your pre-edited post
Not saying that no lives could be saved with armed teachers on property in the event something like this would happen again, but, I think it's an unfair expectation to place on teachers, as well.
That makes sense.
I completely empathize with the cops that were ''hiding,'' they're human...and fear is a human trait. But, that's their job, to protect the public. It's just scary that we can't trust the FBI or police in a situation like this. Both failed.
-
-
02-24-2018, 03:21 PM #257𝓐𝓲𝓻 𝓕𝓸𝓻𝓬𝓮 𝓥𝓮𝓽𝓮𝓻𝓪𝓷 1976 - 1999 - 𝓒𝓪𝓷𝓷𝓪𝓫𝓲𝓼 𝓔𝓷𝓽𝓱𝓾𝓼𝓲𝓪𝓼𝓽 𝓼𝓲𝓷𝓬𝓮 𝓽𝓱𝓮 1960'𝓼
ᖇᗴ丅Ꭵᖇᗴᗪ ᗩ丅 40 ᑕᖇᗴᗯ - ᔕᗝᑕᎥᗩᒪ ᗪᎥᔕ丅ᗩᑎᑕᎥᑎǤ ᗴ᙭ᑭᗴᖇ丅 - ᒪᎥᐯᎥᑎǤ 丅ᕼᗴ ᗪᖇᗴᗩᗰ
ƚo| ɒ ꙅɿɘʞʞuꟻ bᴎɒ ɿɘʞʞuꟻ ꙅᴎuoᴎoɿq ɿɘbᴎɘǫ ɘʜƚ ɘꙅu I
𝕀 𝕕𝕠𝕟'𝕥 𝕒𝕝𝕨𝕒𝕪𝕤 𝕒𝕘𝕣𝕖𝕖 𝕨𝕚𝕥𝕙 𝕥𝕙𝕖 𝕞𝕖𝕞𝕖𝕤 𝕀 𝕡𝕠𝕤𝕥
🄸 🅃🄴🄻🄻 🄸🅃 🄻🄸🄺🄴 🄸🅃 🄸🅂, 🄸🄵 🅈🄾🅄 🅆🄰🄽🅃 🅂🄼🄾🄺🄴 🄱🄻🄾🅆🄽 🅄🄿 🅈🄾🅄🅁 🄰🅂🅂 🄾🅁 🅂🄾🄼🄴🅃🄷🄸🄽🄶 🅂🅄🄶🄰🅁 🄲🄾🄰🅃🄴🄳. 🄸 🅂🅄🄶🄶🄴🅂🅃 🅈🄾🅄 🄶🄴🅃 🄰 🄷🄾🄾🄺🄴🅁 🄰🄽🄳 🄰 🄿🄾🅆🄳🄴🅁🄴🄳 🄳🄾🄽🅄🅃
-
02-24-2018, 03:27 PM #258
There is no one serious arguing teachers should be obligated to defend others with lethal force or their lives. The goal is to allow others with the ability and desire to protect themselves and innocent children to do so.
The goal is to stop murder (mass or otherwise), one of the best ways to do that is empower good people, not disarm them."it's likely one of us will have to spend some days alone"
-
02-24-2018, 03:29 PM #259
-
02-24-2018, 04:01 PM #260
-
-
02-24-2018, 04:37 PM #261
I saw a pretty good one with a map, it was right down to the seconds. If the first officer had just rushed in and ran towards the gunshots he would have saved 3 or 4 people.
The killer did the most damage early, he was hunting out victims near the end, they were hunkered down pretty well at that point. He dropped his gun and tried to blend in with the students running out.Don't put that on me Ricky Bobby, don't you ever put that on me.
-
02-24-2018, 04:42 PM #262
^^ This. I suspect that if we get an instance of two of a would-be shooter getting shot before a rampage, it might change the perception among these nutjobs that schools are easy targets. By the same token, if it is known that some teachers are armed, it could stop shootings before they ever happen (due to the deterrence factor).
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man.
-
02-24-2018, 07:16 PM #263
The deterrence factor will be the best case scenario although it would be impossible to measure just how good it was working. If a school isn't having any instances of shootings, the right will say it's because there are armed teachers and the left will say it's because bumpstocks were banned. lol
Well meaning, elderly man with a poor memory...pause
-
02-25-2018, 06:36 AM #264
- Join Date: Jun 2010
- Location: Wisconsin, United States
- Posts: 16,170
- Rep Power: 241083
This ^^^ Why do people think life is like a Dirty Harry or Lethal Weapon movie where the cops are always at the range? Most of the CCL holders I know spend far more time honing their abilities at the range then your average cop does.
Also this^^^"You know that little thing in your head that keeps you from saying things you shouldn't? Yeah, well, I don't have one of those."
-
-
02-25-2018, 08:26 AM #265
-
02-25-2018, 03:04 PM #266
-
02-25-2018, 07:03 PM #267
Here's a dumba** question, and I'm not trolling. If the police--who are ostensibly proficient in sidearms use (or are supposed to be)--have something like a 20% hit rate vs armed suspects, how is an armed teacher who probably has less experience at a firing range/simulated combat practice going to improve things? The way I see it, you'll have a lot of screaming, panicky kids--very understandable--running around/cowering in fear, and a teacher who may freeze up faster than a police officer would. Or, if they loose a shot or three, they're more apt to wound or kill one of the kids. I'm not against having a gun, but I don't see the need for teachers to be packing heat. I can see the need for armed, professional personnel patrolling the schools.
As a sidenote, the FBI really screwed the pooch on this one. Granted, they were hamstrung in that they couldn't really arrest Cruz without due cause--and threatening other kids should have been sufficient to haul his butt in at the very least or get him to undergo a psychiatric evaluation--but it is what it is. I wish I had the answer to this. I don't."Don't call me Miss Kitty. Just...don't."--Catnip. Check out the Catnip Trilogy on Amazon.com
"Chivalry isn't dead. It just wears a skirt."--Twisted, the YA gender bender deal of the century!
Check out my links to Mr. Taxi, Star Maps, and other fine YA Action/Romance novels at http://www.amazon.com/J.S.-Frankel/e/B004XUUTB8/ref=dp_byline_cont_ebooks_1
-
02-25-2018, 07:31 PM #268
I could possibly see in the future some new teachers being hired as teachers/security so they would have to be trained to do both before being hired. Like you, I don't really have the answer for this but if your goal is to stop the shooter immediately you are going to have to have it done from people on site. One security guy walking around the school grounds isn't going to cut it.
Well meaning, elderly man with a poor memory...pause
-
-
02-25-2018, 08:43 PM #269
-
02-26-2018, 03:32 PM #270
You are correct. My dad had a gun cabinet in the basement with a number of shotguns and boxes of shells. It was never locked. Both my parents worked and when we were old enough (pre-teen) to be home alone during summer vacation, we never even thought about touching those guns, let alone taking and using them somewhere.
A democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. And that's why the USA is a constitutional republic and not a democracy.
Bookmarks