"New" sleeve design? (Rogue content)

[PriorMike]

While I was poking around and deciding on what bar to buy, I noticed that Rogue has come out with a new(?) Echo bar. There's lots of discussion on the forum how sleeves are held on various bars; end bolt, circlips, the York way, etc.

I did a search, and no one seems to have one of these yet being they're so new; I can't figure out how they've held the sleeve on.

"The 28.5mm Echo Bar features the same 190,000 PSI tensile strength steel as our flagship Rogue Ohio Bar, and includes a bright zinc finish on both the shaft and sleeves. There are single Olympic knurl marks (with no center knurl), and an innovative proprietary sleeve design—which allows for a more efficient assembly, saving the customer on costs."

[Stasher1]

Velcro.

[Synthetickiller]

Is this how rogue will be making newer versions of their current bars or just the Echo?

[c00nc4t]

Is this how rogue will be making newer versions of their current bars or just the Echo?

The Echo line is their budget line (Echo = eco = economy), so I'd assume this is just a cost cutting measure to hit a lower price point...I'd be shocked if they started producing their higher-end bars this way. Still, it certainly looks like a huge improvement over their other budget options, the old economy bar and the beater bar, both of which are more or less terrible.

[Domicron]

are these the caps that have to be drilled in order to pop out? because i feel like that's a big negative.

at $195, is there a reason to buy this over the OB-86b (which is still snap ring)?

[Ramcharger310]

are these the caps that have to be drilled in order to pop out? because i feel like that's a big negative.

at $195, is there a reason to buy this over the OB-86b (which is still snap ring)?

If your more into oly lifts then yeah. Bronze bushing, good whip, smooth sleeves, warranty, Rogue CS, tensile strength, IWF marks and knurling that goes to the end.

Plus, its made in Merica'.

[Domicron]

If your more into oly lifts then yeah. Bronze bushing, good whip, warranty, Rogue CS, tensile strength, IWF marks and knurling that goes to the end.

Plus, its made in Merica'.

didn't notice the bronze bushing part, but good other points too.

[daniel327]

are these the caps that have to be drilled in order to pop out? because i feel like that's a big negative.

at $195, is there a reason to buy this over the OB-86b (which is still snap ring)?

TBH, bars at this price point should be considered consumable/disposable items. There is no need to disassemble them.

[Seatard]

TBH, bars at this price point should be considered consumable/disposable items. There is no need to disassemble them.

Proprietary sleeve design and more efficient assembly sounds like it can't be disassembled because they want you to buy another one sooner rather than later. Maybe press-fit and bonded end caps, or some other permanent method that would be obvious if messed with to easily avoid warranty claims. Or maybe just a dust cap that covers a hex bolt. Still, like said, no need to take them apart anyway. It's not like you're going to get replacement parts or be able to make any worthwhile improvements by doing so.

[Synthetickiller]

The Echo line is their budget line (Echo = eco = economy), so I'd assume this is just a cost cutting measure to hit a lower price point...I'd be shocked if they started producing their higher-end bars this way. Still, it certainly looks like a huge improvement over their other budget options, the old economy bar and the beater bar, both of which are more or less terrible.

Rogue has the quality/visual impressiveness on lock with this bar. It looks high end. I think that's what they were going of.
I just want to know how much of an improvement it actually is over the older eco bar & beater bar that you mentioned. For those who don't do oly lifts, would this bar be a bad choice, especially with the ob-86b accessible for $100 to $120 most of the time?

As others have said, I find $200 a hard sale. Cap basically has a bar that you can afford if you skip eating out a few times, while the Rogue already had the "Rouge Bar 2.0" which seems to a higher end version of what this bar could have been.

So... $99-$120 ---- $195 ---- $255.
That's the range we are seeing when comparing to cap & the next most expensive bar Rogue makes.
Save up to $95 or spend another $60 for a better bar. A $155 dollar difference is a lot. I'd rather see someone buy the Cap & move to the 2.0 over the Echo Bar 2.0.

Rogue really makes too many F'n bars. I don't even know how to scale them on a quality ladder.

are these the caps that have to be drilled in order to pop out? because i feel like that's a big negative.

at $195, is there a reason to buy this over the OB-86b (which is still snap ring)?

You make a good point. What differentiates this Rogue bar from the OB-86b, aside from cosmetics?
At this lower end range, does it even matter? Just buy the cheapest & beat it to hell doing rack pulls. Save the higher end bars for non-destructive work.

[Stasher1]

Rogue really makes too many F'n bars. I don't even know how to scale them on a quality ladder.

I feel the same way.

If they really want to do something different, let the buyer select their preferred shaft, knurl, sleeves, and finish from drop-down menus and charge them by the part. That way the buyer gets exactly what they want without wading thru page after page of the same damn bar with a dozen different names.

[Domicron]

TBH, bars at this price point should be considered consumable/disposable items. There is no need to disassemble them.

i get that, although on the other hand i'm just curious how much money is being saved with that style of end cap/construction. a cheaper bar like the ob-86b, which doesn't spin well sometimes, is easily fixed by taking the thing apart, and it doesn't appear to be too complicated a job.

[Ramcharger310]

i get that, although on the other hand i'm just curious how much money is being saved with that style of end cap/construction. a cheaper bar like the ob-86b, which doesn't spin well sometimes, is easily fixed by taking the thing apart, and it doesn't appear to be too complicated a job.

The same CF noob, that ain't readin the stickies, ain't taking no damn bar apart. All they see is a $199 Rogue bar that is decent for oly lifts and CF. You all see it for what it is. Noobs don't. It is a mental thing seeing the price $199 vs $2xx and it is a well known retail mind trick. Rogue is going to do much better with this than the retarded Beater Bar. The BB in my opinion is the competition for the OB86B.

[Domicron]

The same CF noob, that ain't readin the stickies, ain't taking no damn bar apart. All they see is a $199 Rogue bar that is decent for oly lifts and CF. You all see it for what it is. Noobs don't. It is a mental thing seeing the price $199 vs $2xx and it is a well known retail mind trick. Rogue is going to do much better with this than the retarded Beater Bar. The BB in my opinion is the competition for the OB86B.

yeah that's a good point. calling it the beater bar i always felt was a poor move

[Ramcharger310]

yeah that's a good point. calling it the beater bar i always felt was a poor move

lol yeah its like "come buy this POS bar."

I thought it was a bad name especially when talking about the womens version .

[Synthetickiller]

Derailing just a hair, but still on topic, is the OB-86B the best beater bar out there?
Is the echo 2.0 the oly bar version of that?

I've warmed up to rogue a little bit, but man, threads like this make me dislike the company again...

[Ramcharger310]

Derailing just a hair, but still on topic, is the OB-86B the best beater bar out there?
Is the echo 2.0 the oly bar version of that?

I've warmed up to rogue a little bit, but man, threads like this make me dislike the company again...

I'm still debating that myself. When it was the old design @ $125 it was the king. Especially since the PBCK was up around $180. Something changed with CAP as seen with the CFF experience.

They stopped honoring the 3 year warranty.
They changed the end cap engraving to a sticker. No more tooling for each end cap model.
The stopped polishing the bushing in the Beast. Another expense cut.

All this and they raise the price to $147.

With all that said, I would still choose the 86B over the BB.

[Domicron]

all those are disappointing, but i honestly feel like the value of the ob-86b has and will be the quality of the knurling and the non-slippery finish of the bar. it just has to spin enough, the sticker can be removed, and it's still frequently on sale for below msrp.

[Ramcharger310]

all those are disappointing, but i honestly feel like the value of the ob-86b has and will be the quality of the knurling and the non-slippery finish of the bar. it just has to spin enough, the sticker can be removed, and it's still frequently on sale for below msrp.

That is my view too. If it goes back down to $125 or on sale for $99, its still a great deal. The knurling paired with the finish is phenomenal in this price range. I inspected the bars at EquipmentRAW and even the finish/knurl on their $300 oly bars couldn't compete.

[Mech6]

I've warmed up to rogue a little bit

What the hell?

but man, threads like this make me dislike the company again...

That's it, come back to the dark side.

[Hardgains88]

What the hell?



That's it, come back to the dark side.

Mech, your allowed to be sarcastic and funny like everyone else... But when I see you posted on something that has a mechanical component in need of a thorough and accurate explanation, I eagerly click expecting to see the definitive explanation laid out, so now that you have had your light hearted post, please weigh in on the probable construction technique used here and pros and cons! Lol

[Mech6]

Mech, your allowed to be sarcastic and funny like everyone else... But when I see you posted on something that has a mechanical component in need of a thorough and accurate explanation, I eagerly click expecting to see the definitive explanation laid out, so now that you have had your light hearted post, please weigh in on the probable construction technique used here and pros and cons! Lol

Can't say, I've never seen the bar.

[c00nc4t]

Derailing just a hair, but still on topic, is the OB-86B the best beater bar out there?
Is the echo 2.0 the oly bar version of that?

I've warmed up to rogue a little bit, but man, threads like this make me dislike the company again...

I think the CAP is a great budget bar if you're not doing any olympic lifts or dropping of the bar. The sleeve spin leaves a lot to be desired which is important for olympic lifts, and the strength of the steel is pretty low so I'd worry about bending if you were dropping from overhead. This rogue echo bar is 190k which is a pretty serious upgrade from the CAP, so as long as the sleeve spin is decent it should be a better choice for those doing the fast lifts. That said, I'm a pretty firm believer that the barbell is the heart and soul of a gym, and if you expand your budget just to $300 you can get an excellent bushing bar that will outlast you and perform flawlessly. It seems silly to me to penny pinch so much on a barbell unless you absolutely can't afford anything better. I've seen people spending tons of money on expensive plates like revolvers and then putting them on a bargain-barrel barbell...it just doesn't make sense to me.

[Domicron]

I think the CAP is a great budget bar if you're not doing any olympic lifts or dropping of the bar. The sleeve spin leaves a lot to be desired which is important for olympic lifts, and the strength of the steel is pretty low so I'd worry about bending if you were dropping from overhead. This rogue echo bar is 190k which is a pretty serious upgrade from the CAP, so as long as the sleeve spin is decent it should be a better choice for those doing the fast lifts. That said, I'm a pretty firm believer that the barbell is the heart and soul of a gym, and if you expand your budget just to $300 you can get an excellent bushing bar that will outlast you and perform flawlessly. It seems silly to me to penny pinch so much on a barbell unless you absolutely can't afford anything better. I've seen people spending tons of money on expensive plates like revolvers and then putting them on a bargain-barrel barbell...it just doesn't make sense to me.

if you're not doing oly lifts though, why move up when other things are more important? if you can spend half the money on a barbell but manage to get a rack or bench (which imo are the true heart and soul of a home gym) then why not wait until later to upgrade?

it all comes down to priorities and personal preference. some people will want a $300 bar while others will want better weights first. know what's available and how good those options are is what's important: it lets each person buy in the order in which they're most comfortable

[Bench905]

You make a good point. What differentiates this Rogue bar from the OB-86b, aside from cosmetics?

Quality of steel is one huge thing. 190k vs. 130k. I don't know how the OB86B gets so much love as a power bar (or even multi-purpose) with only 130k steel and no center knurl. You barely see anything under 150k these days unless you are going very low end.

I've warmed up to rogue a little bit, but man, threads like this make me dislike the company again...

How did this thread make you dislike Rogue? I don't think we got any info the OP asked (sleeve construction) - it's just a bunch of people saying they don't know how the sleeves are constructed, a few CF insults, some of the OB86B worshippers putting in their $.02, etc.

[Domicron]

How did this thread make you dislike Rogue? I don't think we got any info the OP asked (sleeve construction) - it's just a bunch of people saying they don't know how the sleeves are constructed, a few CF insults, some of the OB86B worshippers putting in their $.02, etc.

my ears are burning...

[Ramcharger310]

[bobcat255]

Quality of steel is one huge thing. 190k vs. 130k. I don't know how the OB86B gets so much love as a power bar (or even multi-purpose) with only 130k steel and no center knurl. You barely see anything under 150k these days unless you are going very low end.

The love is ONLY for PL/whatever bar... it has IPF markings. It also doesn't need center knurl because of the phosphate or whatever coating is on it. The bar does not budge off my back like coated bars even with knurl (obviously all bars are different, this isn't an across the board comment).

Rogue bars will "destroy" the OB-86B for WL.

[Synthetickiller]

What the hell?
That's it, come back to the dark side.

I've always been on the dark side.
Don't you worry. You'll never see a Rogue rack in my gym.

Quality of steel is one huge thing. 190k vs. 130k. I don't know how the OB86B gets so much love as a power bar (or even multi-purpose) with only 130k steel and no center knurl. You barely see anything under 150k these days unless you are going very low end.

How did this thread make you dislike Rogue? I don't think we got any info the OP asked (sleeve construction) - it's just a bunch of people saying they don't know how the sleeves are constructed, a few CF insults, some of the OB86B worshippers putting in their $.02, etc.

I think it's price. Find me another bar for $99 on sale that's as good. Rogue's cost 1.5x that for a beater bar.
Even now it's about $140... Save me $55 on a bar I am going to destory. At the same time, I prefer a center knurl (86pb), so for almost $150, I get that. Still cheaper than Rogue's beater bar.
Both Caps are 28.5mm... the Rogue is 31mm. That's a no-no for a bar I'll be using for rack pulls.
The 86BP has a 150k psi rating. Good enough... still cheaper, still better for grip.

Most likely, you'll never see me buy this bar unless I have a specific use for a "junk" bar. There's a lot of reasons I don't like the bar, but it's unfair to compare it to the Ivanko I use, so I won't go there. You get the idea though; in a what-if situation, I'll go cheaper for a bar like this that I am going to absolutely trash & bend on catch bars. I don't do rack pulls, so I can't think of a need.



Moving onto why the thread reminded me why I've never been a fan... here's why.
I click on the 20kg bar link on Rogue's site. I see 19 bars made by rogue. Lets forget all other ones for now.
I look at these 19 bars & think, what's right for me? I look at everything, I get confused. I rarely get confused & if I do, I can normally clear it up. I'm STILL having issues figuring out how they make 19 bars out of probably 4 different designs.
They move knurling around, multiple knurls on bars, small spacing changes on knurl. There's different bushing set ups... just annoying. Have oly bars, have power bars... for the love of all things sane, cut out this crap of the dual knurling marks... it's the transvestite of bars. It doesn't know what it wants to be & you certainly aren't going to help it figure that out.
Now I'm back to square one. I narrow it down to 4 out of 19 bars & still have no clue what to buy. The process starts all over again & I hope I get the bar I wanted. I'm just glad that I didn't have the option to go with Rogue when I bought my Ivanko in 2001. It has the funny knurl & I still don't even care. Works for me, lasts & I didn't have to break down every simple option on a bar to know what's best for me. More options are not always better & confuse the living hell out of customers...

And that brings me to my point. Why make so many bars? Is there a bar collection fetish outside of this site? I bet there is! Own all 19 Rogue bars & receive a free balloon!
I click on the Ohio Power Bar, Ohio Power Bar 20kg & the Westside power bar. Besides small differences in finishes & one having a slightly longer sleeve (who cares?) they are all the same more or less & cost 250/275, 325 and 325 respectively. I doubt there's anything really different other than labeling. Why make 3 F'n bars that are the exact same thing with end caps that have different logos... I mean, look at this...



I get Powerlifting, Olympic Weightlifting & the bastard child, Multipurpose, but WTF is weightlifting? Isn't that the same as multipurpose? If not, isn't that just powerlifting without going heavy? Is it someone who doesn't lift heavy, but wants to do oly lifts, but not heavy? What is this? I'm having an existential crisis. What have I been doing with my lift to put me in this position? The fact that I can't answer what weightlifting means speaks volumes. Imagine anyone new to training with weights who is trying to pick out the right bar for his or her needs. There's no need for this Tom Foolery!


Rogue does this with everything. 5 versions of the same thing must be better than 1, so we usually see questions about rogue gear... should I get an S1, S2 or S3. They are the same thing. Call it S & give 3 options. I think it stands for Sanity b/c they've clearly stolen mine at this point. Streamline what gear you make, lower costs & pass it on to the consumer while producing things faster, more efficiently at a lower margin to break even. It's a win-win.


I need a drink.

[daniel327]

Own all 19 Rogue bars & receive a free balloon!

How many choices of balloon type do you envision?