Hypertrophy/Bodybuilding Routine

[Negligence]

I don't retract my shoulder blades, it's unnatural, when you press against a wall or something in real life do you ever retract your shoulder blades? No, you actually protract your shoulder blades.

The serratus anterior is responsible for maintaining shoulder/scapula stability during protraction, by intentionally avoiding protraction and enforcing retraction you're actually neglecting your serratus anterior which is absolutely disastrous when it comes to shoulder/scapula health.

I'm literally dumbfounded that anyone would actually advise retracting the scapulae during pressing movements, especially when they try to justify it by saying that it's safer/healthier, truly the epitome of irony.

I remember you saying this some time ago and so I started doing flat-backed benching. I definitely feel more strain in my shoulders, but my pressing is much stronger and feels more natural.

[Negligence]

Kelei, one thing I've been meaning to ask.

I've come to realize that with heavy compounds, I'm not very good with high-reps. It doesn't matter what weight is on the bar, I will struggle after ~5 reps even if I'm using 135 though my working sets are 225. I tend to notice this the most on squat and bench, less so with other lifts.

Basically, I am strongest in the 3-5 rep range regardless of what weight is on the bar. I will fatigue quickly after 5 reps doing 135 the same way I will fatigue quickly doing 5+ reps of 185. It's not due to lack of conditioning as I play sports (hockey) a couple times a week and am in good shape.

Does this make any sense? It would seem to me that I am fast-twitch dominant, and so I struggle with any high rep work. That's also why I find rest-pause works so well with me, because I can do 3-rep sets within ~20 seconds of the last set, I recover quickly.

[Jasonk282]

Kelei, one thing I've been meaning to ask.

I've come to realize that with heavy compounds, I'm not very good with high-reps. It doesn't matter what weight is on the bar, I will struggle after ~5 reps even if I'm using 135 though my working sets are 225. I tend to notice this the most on squat and bench, less so with other lifts.

Basically, I am strongest in the 3-5 rep range regardless of what weight is on the bar. I will fatigue quickly after 5 reps doing 135 the same way I will fatigue quickly doing 5+ reps of 185. It's not due to lack of conditioning as I play sports (hockey) a couple times a week and am in good shape.

Does this make any sense? It would seem to me that I am fast-twitch dominant, and so I struggle with any high rep work. That's also why I find rest-pause works so well with me, because I can do 3-rep sets within ~20 seconds of the last set, I recover quickly.

everyone responds to different things. I personally suck at low rep stuff but respond better to high rep. So I go for 10 reps Nd usually 5-6 sets.

I would say do what works for you, kelei would probably say the same as it doesn't matter how you get the volume in, just as long as you get it in

[Yeahbrah333]

Oh, and I know that for you failure is as many full reps as possible and for bench for example I can understand that as you should stop after the rep after which you will get stuck... I know that stopping 1 rep shy even of that or actually failing due to misjudging is not bad and can and will clear up with experience, however on things such as curls and rope extensions it is a bit more different than bench



By the way, I have found that I have eliminated any type of sugar just by adding a stevia sweetener and having diet cokes/pepsi max ... what do you think of this habit



I see your point for the bench. When you preach full range of motion, do you lock out on bench press ? Many people don't lock out on many stuff even on rope pressdowns which seems stupid to me as you get the full contraction as you extend fully the arm ?

[Kelei]

Kelei, do you still share your earlier visions on which supplements to take?

Especially curious on your vision on vitamin C. You used to recommend higher intakes, but I read that a high vitamin C intake reduces ROS activity or something like that (at least it concerns its antioxidant activity) which potentially has a negative effect on gains (don't know the exact magnitude of the effect, but still).

Thoughts?

I take 1500 mg of vitamin C per day, 500 mg 3 times per day spread out. Vitamin C won't reduce ROS enough to make any meaningful impact on gains, not unless you take huge amounts immediately after training, you'd probably need to inject vitamin C in order to reach a high enough concentration to cause harm, oral vitamin C intake will only raise blood concentrations so far no matter how much you take.

Kelei, one thing I've been meaning to ask.

I've come to realize that with heavy compounds, I'm not very good with high-reps. It doesn't matter what weight is on the bar, I will struggle after ~5 reps even if I'm using 135 though my working sets are 225. I tend to notice this the most on squat and bench, less so with other lifts.

Basically, I am strongest in the 3-5 rep range regardless of what weight is on the bar. I will fatigue quickly after 5 reps doing 135 the same way I will fatigue quickly doing 5+ reps of 185. It's not due to lack of conditioning as I play sports (hockey) a couple times a week and am in good shape.

Does this make any sense? It would seem to me that I am fast-twitch dominant, and so I struggle with any high rep work. That's also why I find rest-pause works so well with me, because I can do 3-rep sets within ~20 seconds of the last set, I recover quickly.

Training history is important, if you've always trained with heavy weights then your strength endurance with moderate/light weights will be poor, much in the same way a 100-200M sprinter would have terrible 400-800M performance, some of it (perhaps 10%) could be attributed to fiber ratios but the primary reason why their 400-800M performance sucks is because they simply don't perform 400-800M sprints regularly, their strength endurance is poor.

Fiber ratios play a minor role in performance but at the elite level every little edge matters, if you were to take a slow twitch runner and have them train like Usain bolt they might be able to sprint 100M in 10.3 seconds, quite pathetic by Bolt's standards but still respectable compared to the untrained general public. You could also do the opposite, take a fast twitch runner and have them train for a marathon, I'm sure they could eventually run a marathon in a respectable/impressive time (within 10% of the best marathon runners) but they'd never reach the top echelon.

[Vytt]

It doesn't/wouldn't matter, just take every set to/near failure and complete your total number of reps however you prefer, short rest periods with lots of sets (even to the point of rest-pause) or long rest periods with fewer sets, whatever.

I drink 3 litres of whole milk every day along with 500 grams beef mince, 6 whole eggs and 300 grams basmati rice (when measured raw), these are my staples and my entire diet revolves around them.

Wow, that's a lot of food!
From my quick calculation it's close to 5k calories (and it's only the base?).

carbs 381g
prot 276g
fats 230g

Why is your carb intake is higher than protein? And also why you need so much fats, isn't it suppose to be .5g/ kg?

[Negligence]

everyone responds to different things. I personally suck at low rep stuff but respond better to high rep. So I go for 10 reps Nd usually 5-6 sets.

I would say do what works for you, kelei would probably say the same as it doesn't matter how you get the volume in, just as long as you get it in

Do you think it would make sense to adjust my 12RM target down to 8RM? Keep overall volume the same, but work towards an 8RM before increasing weight vs. a 12RM.

Or maybe I'm just over-thinking this.

[Jasonk282]

Do you think it would make sense to adjust my 12RM target down to 8RM? Keep overall volume the same, but work towards an 8RM before increasing weight vs. a 12RM.

Or maybe I'm just over-thinking this.

It probably would not hurt to try. Again, what matters is that you get the volume in. So if you're doing say 40 reps whether you get it in with 4x10 or 8x5 you're still getting in the same total volume.

[Kelei]

Wow, that's a lot of food!
From my quick calculation it's close to 5k calories (and it's only the base?).

carbs 381g
prot 276g
fats 230g

Why is your carb intake is higher than protein? And also why you need so much fats, isn't it suppose to be .5g/ kg?

I'm bulking right now, my carb intake is high because my training volume is very high (like 40-50 sets per workout) and I'm training 6 days per week, I'm actually throwing in carb refeeds twice per week (extra 200 grams for the day) in order to keep up with my carbohydrate requirements.

For the record, your carbohydrate intake should always be higher than your protein intake, I spoke about this in my previous thread, although I was referring to carbohydrate intake during a deload it also applies in general:

During a deload I usually just keep everything the same, reducing your carbohydrate intake could potentially compromise your muscle glycogen stores and impact your workout performance at the beginning of your next loading phase.

It's also wise to keep your carb/calorie intake high during a deload because it'll improve/restore your testosterone/cortisol ratio (which can take a beating after a period of hard training) and it'll ensure thyroid hormone output isn't suppressed. Both of these effects are important for overall systematic recovery.

[nerynery]

Kelei, since you talk a lot about Usain Bolt and sprinter's different kind of training vs marathon runners, I have a question.

My brother is 17 years old, he plays football (soccer) semi-professionally. He's been playing for 11 years, and started going to the gym for the last 4-5 months. (3x week).

He has football practice 3/4 times weekdays and game on the weekend. He's relativelly small, 175cm, about 65kg, 7% bodyfat.

What kind of weightlifting training should I give him so he can improve his sporting abilities (speed, power, etc)?

His stats are:

Squat: 5x 70kg
Bench: 10x 60kg
Chin-ups: 10 BW
RDL: 10x65kg

Thanks a lot.

[Kelei]

Kelei, since you talk a lot about Usain Bolt and sprinter's different kind of training vs marathon runners, I have a question.

My brother is 17 years old, he plays football (soccer) semi-professionally. He's been playing for 11 years, and started going to the gym for the last 4-5 months. (3x week).

He has football practice 3/4 times weekdays and game on the weekend. He's relativelly small, 175cm, about 65kg, 7% bodyfat.

What kind of weightlifting training should I give him so he can improve his sporting abilities (speed, power, etc)?

His stats are:

Squat: 5x 70kg
Bench: 10x 60kg
Chin-ups: 10 BW
RDL: 10x65kg

Thanks a lot.

He shouldn't be training his upper body at all really, it only adds unnecessary body mass which will slow him down during sprints (and reduce jumping height) and it'll also reduce general agility when maneuvering around other players (due to a higher center of gravity). Upper body training has zero carryover to soccer performance and in fact is detrimental. Soccer, sprinting and cycling are all lower body dominated sports, I don't recommend direct upper body training for any of these sports.

For soccer performance I would focus on front squats, reverse hypers, leg extensions, leg curls, barbell hip thrusts and finally some direct hip flexion work (using an ankle attachment on a low pulley offers several options). Direct calf training will slow him down, I'd avoid it.

I'd keep the reps between 5-8. Make sure to perform smooth/slow eccentrics during leg curls, eccentric hamstring strength (especially eccentric knee flexion strength) is of vital importance when it comes to preventing hamstring injuries.

The reason why hamstring injuries are very common in athletes is because most of them don't train properly, they might perform deadlifts or olympic lifts and in both cases they simply drop the weights after the concentric half of the rep, they never/rarely actually perform an eccentric rep. It also doesn't help that leg curls are bashed in general so a lot of athletes simply don't perform them because they think hip extension movements are the only worthwhile way of training the hamstrings, and even the athletes who do incorporate leg curls into their workouts usually just let the weights fall back down to their starting position which is a waste of time.

[nerynery]

He shouldn't be training his upper body at all really, it only adds unnecessary body mass which will slow him down during sprints (and reduce jumping height) and it'll also reduce general agility when maneuvering around other players (due to a higher center of gravity). Upper body training has zero carryover to soccer performance and in fact is detrimental. Soccer, sprinting and cycling are all lower body dominated sports, I don't recommend direct upper body training for any of these sports.

For soccer performance I would focus on front squats, reverse hypers, leg extensions, leg curls, barbell hip thrusts and finally some direct hip flexion work (using an ankle attachment on a low pulley offers several options). Direct calf training will slow him down, I'd avoid it.

I'd keep the reps between 5-8. Make sure to perform smooth/slow eccentrics during leg curls, eccentric hamstring strength (especially eccentric knee flexion strength) is of vital importance when it comes to preventing hamstring injuries.

The reason why hamstring injuries are very common in athletes is because most of them don't train properly, they might perform deadlifts or olympic lifts and in both cases they simply drop the weights after the concentric half of the rep, they never/rarely actually perform an eccentric rep. It also doesn't help that leg curls are bashed in general so a lot of athletes simply don't perform them because they think hip extension movements are the only worthwhile way of training the hamstrings, and even the athletes who do incorporate leg curls into their workouts usually just let the weights fall back down to their starting position which is a waste of time.

Thanks for the answer. Why do soccer players like Cristiano Ronaldo, Nani and others seem to have a very-well developed upper-body or sprinters like Tison Gay, Asafa Powell, Yohan Blake? If it gives no benefits.. not even for pure whole body mass, like to hold your position with the ball when some players are trying to push you around and you're fighting for ball possession? I don't understand why you wouldn't work on your upper body.

ex of pics of whom I said:
Asafa: http://worldofblackheroes.files.word...a-powell-3.jpg
Tison : http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/...45_634x392.jpg
Blake: http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...han_Blake.jpeg
Ronaldo: http://bilder.bild.de/fotos-skaliert...0,c=0.bild.jpg
Nani: http://img2.news.zing.vn/2012/02/08/naniwins.jpg

[Jasonk282]

Well developed =/= massive I'm also willing to bet they don't bench 2 plates probably.

They seem developed because they have low body fat and mass.

Just like being in the military where the bigger you are the bigger target you are..unless you're playing in the nfl or rugby you don't need to be massive just fast/agile

[Vytt]

I'm bulking right now, my carb intake is high because my training volume is very high (like 40-50 sets per workout) and I'm training 6 days per week, I'm actually throwing in carb refeeds twice per week (extra 200 grams for the day) in order to keep up with my carbohydrate requirements.

For the record, your carbohydrate intake should always be higher than your protein intake, I spoke about this in my previous thread, although I was referring to carbohydrate intake during a deload it also applies in general:

Thanks for the info. Probably thats explains why I cannot progress lately, not enough carbs I guess ...

[klaximilian]

To the guys worrying about fat intake/ratios, keep polyunsaturated fat limited to no more than 10% of your total fat intake, this is by far more important than the ratio between sat/mono, just make sure 90% of your fat intake comes from sat and mono fats while emphasising sat over mono wherever possible.

Thanks for addressing this. So essentially we're looking at a 10/45-/45+ ratio for PUFA/MUFA/SAT.

May I ask, why is it beneficial to have this ratio? Why more saturated fats, and why less PUFA and to a lesser degree, less MUFA?

[MichielN]

Thanks for addressing this. So essentially we're looking at a 10/45-/45+ ratio for PUFA/MUFA/SAT.

May I ask, why is it beneficial to have this ratio? Why more saturated fats, and why less PUFA and to a lesser degree, less MUFA?

Testosterone (saturated and monounsaturated fats raise testosterone, polyunsaturated fats lower it), and cell membrane stability (in most human cells, phospholipids are 50%+ saturated).

Besides that, both coconut oil and full fat dairy provide a wide variety of saturated fats (of which there are many), most have unique health benefits (e.g. look into short-chained fatty acids such as butyrate, and MCTs such as lauric acid from coconut oil). Full fat dairy in fact contains a huge amount of unique fatty acids, some of which for example improve glucose metabolism, or heart health. Read up on Mary Enig's work if you're interested in this.

[nerynery]

Well developed =/= massive I'm also willing to bet they don't bench 2 plates probably.

They seem developed because they have low body fat and mass.

Just like being in the military where the bigger you are the bigger target you are..unless you're playing in the nfl or rugby you don't need to be massive just fast/agile

Yeah, I agree, but they certainly work their chest, delts, arms and back. IMO having a well-developed whole body (as a soccer player/sprinter), with bigger emphasis on lower body, so they can have massive legs (not in BB-terms, but in strenght/power/speed), will have its benefits. If you are running with the ball and some players are trying to push you away, fighting for the ball and so on, you better have some strenght, not just on the legs, but on your whole body. That's just my opinion though.

[jmmainvi]

When I make adjustments to my food intake I always use the first week as a washout period, decreasing or increasing your carbohydrate and/or sodium intake/s can give you a false/misleading reading on the scale, I find a week is usually long enough for my scale weight to stabalize.

So usually what I do after making adjustments to my food intake is to follow my new diet for a week and then use my weight at the end of the week as my setpoint or starting weight.

On a side note it makes it far easier to accurately track your weight if your carb and sodium intakes are kept steady, if your carb and sodium intakes fluctuate from day to day and week to week you'll have a hard time getting a reliable scale reading, you'd need to use some kind of long term averaging system instead.

Any favorite recipes to share? I dont particularly care what I eat beyond cost per calorie, so I'm willing to give that a shot for the next 8-12 weeks or so (on a reduced total calories plan) so maybe 2l milk 350g beef, 200g rice. I'll keep it at 6 eggs as iirc you recommend at least that much for... choline, was it? That's ~3500 calories and I'm sitting at 2900-ish maintenance right now.

[VicRattlehead]

I don't like IIFYM because it encourages people to eat crappy processed foods which are often devoid of vitamins and minerals and more often than not contain dangerous/detrimental food additives. It also fails to distinguish between sugars and starch which can have real consequences, for example fructose (sucrose and HFCS contain around 50% fructose) does not suppress appetite/hunger, if you eat 300 calories from fat or glucose/galactose your appetite/hunger is suppressed accordingly, your body registers the 300 calories, if on the other hand you eat 300 calories from fructose it's as if it never happened, you could almost call them "ghost" calories.

This is one of the primary reasons why old school bodybuilders avoided fruit during contest prep, when your calories are already low and you're ravenous with hunger the last thing you want to be eating is calories that your body doesn't even register, if you're eating 2000 calories but 300 are coming from fructose your appetite/hunger will feel as though you're only eating 1700 calories.

The other reason why bodybuilders usually avoid fructose during contest prep is that fructose can't replenish muscle glycogen stores and when your carbohydrate intake is already greatly reduced you want every gram to count, glucose is preferred because it can replenish muscle glycogen stores which are required to maintain at least half decent workouts.

If I could give only one piece of advice to the general public in regards to weight loss it'd be to eliminate sugar as much as possible/practical from their diets, they'd start eating less calories without even realising it because now when they ate 2300 calories their bodies would register 2300 calories and suppress their appetites and hunger levels accordingly.

Currently people are eating so much sugar that several hundred (or even worse) calories per day are simply flying under the radar, they're eating 2300 but they feel like they're only eating 1700, if they were to eliminate sugar they might only eat 2000 calories per day which might very well be their maintenance.

Avoiding fructose (which also means avoiding sucrose and HFCS) during a cut/recomp will suppress your hunger/appetite, don't just take my word for it guys, go ahead and give it a trial the next time you decide to cut/recomp.

I'm following Nate Miyaki's intermittent feasting protocol trying to lose this damn spare tyre! Nutshell= 40-50 grams protein+a piece of fruit for first 2 meals then 40-50g protein+150-200g carbs (mostly potatoes/bread/rice)for dinner daily. He says that if your eating enough carbs in the dinner meal you will have enough muscle glycogen for training but if during training you start to bonk it's because of liver glycogen being to low. He says to have a piece of fruit pre/during workout in this scenario as it will go straight to liver glycogen. That is typical sports nutrition advice too (eating jelly beans/ sugary drink etc) but are you recommending eating no fruit while cutting?

Also, I know in the past you didn't recommend eating the bulk of your carbs in one meal but when your small and only have 1700-1800 cals to work with it sure makes dieting a lot easier. Night time is when I'm most likely to binge so this plan helps address that.

[EmperorRyker]

Yeah, I agree, but they certainly work their chest, delts, arms and back. IMO having a well-developed whole body (as a soccer player/sprinter), with bigger emphasis on lower body, so they can have massive legs (not in BB-terms, but in strenght/power/speed), will have its benefits. If you are running with the ball and some players are trying to push you away, fighting for the ball and so on, you better have some strenght, not just on the legs, but on your whole body. That's just my opinion though.

I think a lot of people are also forgetting the fact that these guys are human, and vanity is a human trait. They don't just do what's best for their performance, they also do stuff that makes them look better.

[iMangles]

Thoughts on reverse dieting after a prolonged cut/weight loss? Bull**** or worthwhile?

[EmperorRyker]

Thoughts on reverse dieting after a prolonged cut/weight loss? Bull**** or worthwhile?

Unnecessary and only extending the possibly suboptimal hormonal milieu that might have resulted from a prolonged cut.

[Kelei]

Thanks for the answer. Why do soccer players like Cristiano Ronaldo, Nani and others seem to have a very-well developed upper-body or sprinters like Tison Gay, Asafa Powell, Yohan Blake? If it gives no benefits.. not even for pure whole body mass, like to hold your position with the ball when some players are trying to push you around and you're fighting for ball possession? I don't understand why you wouldn't work on your upper body.

ex of pics of whom I said:
Asafa: http://worldofblackheroes.files.word...a-powell-3.jpg
Tison : http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/...45_634x392.jpg
Blake: http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...han_Blake.jpeg
Ronaldo: http://bilder.bild.de/fotos-skaliert...0,c=0.bild.jpg
Nani: http://img2.news.zing.vn/2012/02/08/naniwins.jpg

Probably because they either want to look like that or because they're under the misconception that it'll actually improve their soccer performance.

Yeah, I agree, but they certainly work their chest, delts, arms and back. IMO having a well-developed whole body (as a soccer player/sprinter), with bigger emphasis on lower body, so they can have massive legs (not in BB-terms, but in strenght/power/speed), will have its benefits. If you are running with the ball and some players are trying to push you away, fighting for the ball and so on, you better have some strenght, not just on the legs, but on your whole body. That's just my opinion though.

Having a lower center of gravity is going to help prevent you from being pushed off the ball, total body mass isn't the only thing that matters here. Avoiding upper body training offers several other benefits too:

- More explosive sprinting (better power/weight ratio due to a reduced body mass and reduced drag due to a smaller body surface area)
- Higher jumping potential (better power/weight ratio)
- Increased agility when maneuvering around other players (lower center of gravity makes direction changes easier and a smaller body surface area allows you to squeeze through tighter spaces)

I'm following Nate Miyaki's intermittent feasting protocol trying to lose this damn spare tyre! Nutshell= 40-50 grams protein+a piece of fruit for first 2 meals then 40-50g protein+150-200g carbs (mostly potatoes/bread/rice)for dinner daily. He says that if your eating enough carbs in the dinner meal you will have enough muscle glycogen for training but if during training you start to bonk it's because of liver glycogen being to low. He says to have a piece of fruit pre/during workout in this scenario as it will go straight to liver glycogen. That is typical sports nutrition advice too (eating jelly beans/ sugary drink etc) but are you recommending eating no fruit while cutting?

Also, I know in the past you didn't recommend eating the bulk of your carbs in one meal but when your small and only have 1700-1800 cals to work with it sure makes dieting a lot easier. Night time is when I'm most likely to binge so this plan helps address that.

It depends on your training really, 50 sets of 10-15 reps performed 6 times per week is far more glycogen demanding than 15 sets of 8 reps performed only 4 times per week.

Eating starch prior to a workout will avoid bonking as well, in a more direct manner in fact, you could eat fructose so that it's converted in the liver into glycogen and then released as glucose into the blood or you could just eat glucose (from starch etc) and it'll enter the blood directly.

On a side note I don't recommend training while fasted, always eat something 90-30 minutes before a workout and make sure it's a proper meal that contains both carbohydrate and protein, something like rice and meat will do the job.

Thoughts on reverse dieting after a prolonged cut/weight loss? Bull**** or worthwhile?

It's important to gain/lose weight slowly, the body doesn't like rapid change. Although when your calories are below maintenance (which they often are during a cut) there's nothing wrong with restoring your calorie intake to maintenance overnight, a sudden increase in calorie intake isn't necessarily the same as a sudden increase in body weight.

[Kelei]

I'll keep it at 6 eggs as iirc you recommend at least that much for... choline, was it?

Eggs provide large amounts of arachidonic acid, cholesterol and choline, all 3 are important in their own rights. Eggs obviously provide other benefits as well such as high quality protein and vitamins/minerals.

[EmperorRyker]

On a side note I don't recommend training while fasted, always eat something 90-30 minutes before a workout and make sure it's a proper meal that contains both carbohydrate and protein, something like rice and meat will do the job.

Why not? I train fasted and don't see myself changing that, but I'd like to hear your reasons nonetheless.

[Kelei]

Why not? I train fasted and don't see myself changing that, but I'd like to hear your reasons nonetheless.

It reduces protein oxidation and suppresses cortisol release. Will it make or break your entire plan? Probably not, but every small advantage/edge you obtain adds up over the long term.

It's also a mattter of practicality/necessity, if you're training with a lot of volume (which you should be) there's simply no way you can make it through a long workout in a fasted state, especially if you train in the morning, your liver glycogen stores are already low in the morning to begin with. Low blood glucose levels will impair your workout performance, especially during long workouts.

I experiment a lot, often just out of curiosity and so I've tried fasted training before and sure enough 45 minutes into my workouts I'd hit a wall, brain fog, blurred vision, feeling off-balance on my feet, unable to focus/concentrate and just feeling weak in general, all classic symptoms of hypoglycemia.

Normally I can cruise through 2-3 hour workouts with no problems at all.

[grouchyjarhead]

I don't retract my shoulder blades, it's unnatural, when you press against a wall or something in real life do you ever retract your shoulder blades? No, you actually protract your shoulder blades.

The serratus anterior is responsible for maintaining shoulder/scapula stability during protraction, by intentionally avoiding protraction and enforcing retraction you're actually neglecting your serratus anterior which is absolutely disastrous when it comes to shoulder/scapula health.

I'm literally dumbfounded that anyone would actually advise retracting the scapulae during pressing movements, especially when they try to justify it by saying that it's safer/healthier, truly the epitome of irony.

Actually scapular retraction is pretty common for anyone involved in a throwing sport so I wouldn't call it unnatural.

And I find it weird you wouldn't be a fan of it, as by not retracting your scapula now your shoulders are taking away some of the work from your chest as they're more forward. Seems the opposite of what you would actually want, as when they're back now your chest gets more of an emphasis. That's why you'll see anyone who has a big bench and good chest development will do this.

There's not going to be any benefit to your SA either, unless of course you're keeping your shoulders forward the entire time but then that would prove to be a pretty terrible chest exercise then.

[NewAgeMayan]

I experiment a lot, often just out of curiosity and so I've tried fasted training before and sure enough 45 minutes into my workouts I'd hit a wall, brain fog, blurred vision, feeling off-balance on my feet, unable to focus/concentrate and just feeling weak in general, all classic symptoms of hypoglycemia.

Interesting, never experienced that myself, even when doing fullbody-7-days-per-week (2.5hr sessions, 3am in morning, fasted...well, pre-workout and intra drink).

[Kelei]

Actually scapular retraction is pretty common for anyone involved in a throwing sport so I wouldn't call it unnatural.

And I find it weird you wouldn't be a fan of it, as by not retracting your scapula now your shoulders are taking away some of the work from your chest as they're more forward. Seems the opposite of what you would actually want, as when they're back now your chest gets more of an emphasis. That's why you'll see anyone who has a big bench and good chest development will do this.

There's not going to be any benefit to your SA either, unless of course you're keeping your shoulders forward the entire time but then that would prove to be a pretty terrible chest exercise then.

I've performed EMG tests in my own garage and I found much higher levels of SA activity when benching without scapula retraction, even when not actively trying to protract (push the bar a few inches higher after your normal ROM stops) at the top of the rep, when I actively protract at the top my SA activity goes through the roof. You don't need to hold protraction the entire time, it's the protraction at the top of the rep that really targets the SA.

Protraction is a perfectly natural movement, especially when it comes to shoving an object out of your way or when throwing a punch (boxers have highly developed SA muscles). The reason why scapula protraction exercises are commonly recommended for shoulder/scapula health is because most people intentionally go out of their way to avoid protraction during pressing movements, the end result is an imbalance caused by a weak/underdeveloped SA, thus direct SA/protraction exercises are required to fix the problem, if people were to allow protraction during their pressing movements the problem would never arise to begin with.

These are my beliefs and I'm well aware that I represent the minority, I won't ever allow my beliefs/opinions to be influenced by what the majority says/does, often there is concurrence but on some issues I will stand alone if need be, I'm skeptical by nature and I prefer to trust my own logic/reasoning above all else, including the opinions of others.

Some people might view this as arrogance and in some sense of the word I guess it is, but ultimately I simply have supreme confidence in myself and don't feel the need to take on someone else's opinion/s as my own, that's not to say I don't consider other people's opinions when I'm in the process of forming my own opinions, it merely means that after I've considered all there is to be considered (opinions of others, scientific studies, empirical evidence etc) I prefer to form (and trust in) my own conclusions even if they happen to be at odds with the majority or the experts or whatever.

So while I do appreciate your opinions I can't say that I agree with them, I think we'll need to agree to disagree.

[Kelei]

Interesting, never experienced that myself, even when doing fullbody-7-days-per-week (2.5hr sessions, 3am in morning, fasted...well, pre-workout and intra drink).

Out of curiosity you should try it while drinking only water.