NASA discovers Earth-sized planet that may sustain life
http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/17/tech/s...h-size-planet/
Milky Way may bear 100 million life-giving planets
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0609100725.htm
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08-23-2014, 10:07 PM #61
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08-23-2014, 10:11 PM #62
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08-23-2014, 10:16 PM #63
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08-23-2014, 10:18 PM #64
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I'm going to take it a step farther and say that couldn't happen for reasons related to physics. Noah's story involves the mountains being covered by water, correct? Do you know what type of temperature and pressure that would involve?
Everest is a tad under 9 km high, so I'll use that as a reference point. So a global flood would have had to cause the Earth to be covered by 9,000 meters of water.
Do you know how water statics works? The pressure in a fluid is it's density*height*gravitational constant. So the pressure that we feel, one atmosphere, is basically the weight of stuff in a column on top of us. If there was an atmosphere of water above us (which means in gas form, which is important later), that means everything on Earth was under a pressure of what we feel (from air+trace water vapor+ extremely trace other gases) PLUS the weight of 9 km of water. So let's calculate that
(9 km)(1000 kg/m^3)(1000^3 m^3/km^3)(9.8 m/s^2)(.001 km/meter) = 8.8*10^7 Pa, which is 868 atmosphere
So the pressure of atmosphere pushing down on things would be 868 times what it was today, ie almost the pressure at the lowest point in the sea floor.
NOT TO MENTION that the water would have to be vapor to be in the atmosphere... the boiling temperature decreases as pressure decreases... meaning the boiling point of water would be higher.
If you give me a minute I can find you the boiling point of water, I can guarantee it's over 300+ C at that temperature
So people were living under insane pressure and temperatures, basically in a boiler. Does that really sound plausible to you?
EDIT: NIST doesn't even keep values of water properties that goes up that high in pressure
Intredasting, I'll give it a look in a second
Why would you neg me brah
You study microbio, I'm not sure but I'd be willing to bet that the same parameters that limit cell size, mainly the surface area/volume ratio (ie volume increases faster than volume, meaning nutrient intake through the cell's surface becomes too inefficient as those nutrients have more volume to diffuse through) would apply to a larger organism's tissues instead of cells. I literally have no idea why dinosaurs got so large since what I just said would mean they wouldn't, and I especially wouldn't understand how a carnivore having more surface area would help it... it'd be interesting if you could find a source for it. Maybe the increased surface area in it's GI tract and other organs helped? I dunnoLast edited by dweeegs; 08-23-2014 at 10:34 PM.
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08-23-2014, 10:21 PM #65
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08-23-2014, 10:44 PM #66
Very good argument. The bible does not speak of this theory, it is just a speculation of what some purposed may have happened. Personally I believe it just as it states, it rained a lot. It was an interesting attempt to enlighten on the aging process. Theres a lot of evidence you can look up to support the flood, but honestly a lot of it is going to come from christen cites which to me says a lot more than you might think.
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08-23-2014, 10:49 PM #67
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08-23-2014, 10:55 PM #68
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08-23-2014, 10:56 PM #69
Because I haven't negged anyone in like a year, brah. Dat dry spell making me desperate
I swear I've heard the size argument in regards to thermoregulation. Similar to deep sea gigantism, in combination with the different environment back then. Who knows, all I know, is a ~900 year old person is impossible even with "perfect genetics" of Adam*MISC Perpetual Student Crew*
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08-23-2014, 11:02 PM #70
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No, I am talking about a lot of life forms. I specifically mentioned giant dragonflys, giant roaches, etc. I don't know why you would act confused as to what I am talking about.
Most life forms on earth were simply bigger back then. The current theories are that it was due to much more oxygen in the atmosphere. The reason is irrelevant. I brought it up to make a point.
It is for mysterious reasons, because science does not know the full extent of what causes humans to age. We know some pieces, but not the whole picture. And once again, the details are not as important as to the point being made.
We age, and if we could learn how to stop it or slow it down, we could have longer lifespans. So therefore it is no stretch to assume that a Creator of all things would have been able to do it first.
You have no idea what you are talking about right now. When I said Adam was a perfectly created being, I meant exactly that. His biology was better than our current one. Our "DNA Polymerase" that you mention is not the same process that Adam had. Our current bodies are corrupt and far removed from the perfect DNA/perfect being that Adam was. So aging has -everything- to do with perfect DNA, a perfect being. Ancient humans, closer to Adam, didn't break down as quickly. They didn't have as many errors in cell replication, or any of the processes of our human bodies. Your lack of understanding of the Bible has wasted our time again.
Both Adam and Eve were both created by God, so both were perfect.
It is only us, down through the ages, that are imperfect. Post-Garden of Eden, there is death and disease and aging, things that did not exist at first with Adam and Eve in the Garden. So you cannot look at modern human's and use that knowledge to apply it to Adam.
I'm not surprised. You lack imagination. Nanotechnology is just one example I used to make a point, but once again you latched onto one word, or one phrase, and proceeded to attack that one thing while ignoring the point being made. Even still, nanotechnology (in the future) could have many applications to prolong human lifespans."Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for thou art with me." - Psalm 23
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08-23-2014, 11:05 PM #71
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08-23-2014, 11:09 PM #72
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It is impossible to you because you have no faith in God, so you look at the world from a Naturalist viewpoint only. You only see what the modern world is like.
However, if the Church of Science were to announce breakthroughs in cell regulation, replication, and be able to genetically engineer you to slow down your aging process...... all with the benefit of modern science, you would be jumping for joy at your new 500 year life span, and singing the praises of science.
But because it's from the Bible, you scoff at the idea that somehow, Humans could have lived that long at one point."Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for thou art with me." - Psalm 23
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08-23-2014, 11:14 PM #73
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Another believer falls to atheism. Perhaps the peer pressure and faith in human wisdom will comfort you if you are ever shown evidence that Genesis was in fact accurate and correct.
You either believe, or don't believe. There is no half-way. You can't serve two god's. Either you think God is real and is competent enough to preserve the Bible for us, including Genesis, or you think it's all mumbo jumbo.Last edited by CalmWind; 08-23-2014 at 11:33 PM.
"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for thou art with me." - Psalm 23
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08-23-2014, 11:16 PM #74
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No my problem is I brought science to a Bible fight. I guess my first question then is how long ago do YOU think the Flood happened? That would help me out here.
So how exactly did Adam's cells replicate?
How does having 'perfect DNA' (how do you define that again?) have to do with errors during cell reproduction?
How did your supposed 'perfect DNA' produce defects 'over time' if reproduction was perfect, since he has this 'perfect DNA' according to you?
PS - aging has little to do with DNA, it's the enzymes cutting short and making errors when the cell reproduces. Not DNA. Not a defect in the enzyme. Just the chaotic nature of how the process works.ChemE in education, SoftwareE in job
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08-23-2014, 11:29 PM #75
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No, your problem is you brought a lack of knowledge on the subject.
I don't know how long ago it was, because the Bible does not say.
You want a scientific treatise on Adam's perfect biology. Laughable.
You continue to display your lack of knowledge in all subjects.
First off, what actually causes aging in humans is still a mystery for the most part. This is scientifically true. Your claims to knowing exactly what causes human aging, down to the T, are laughable and in direct opposition to what science knows about the subject.
Lastly, DNA contains all genetic information for every cell. It is responsible for everything. So if the organism's systems have errors or malfunctions, it is due to the design given by the DNA.
Oh, and all that gibberish you wrote about Mt. Everest flood waters...
"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for thou art with me." - Psalm 23
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08-23-2014, 11:36 PM #76
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08-23-2014, 11:41 PM #77
Calm down bro. Yes, I think it is insanely unlikely that man will ever reach 900 years old again in this life. Yes, I think it's possible and probable that the people in the people in the days of Adam and Seth lived hundreds of years because I believe the words of scripture. Yet, I can't make sense of how this would have been. Sure there are theories to explain how this is possible theoretically but I think it is pointless to cling to any such theories. Yet, I leave myself open to the possibility that I may not have all the facts to make sense out of all of it. Those early writings were likely passed down by word of mouth and what they say is so far removed from my current life experience. I read it as something unusual and interesting and trust I will one day be able to make sense out of it in the next life. None of those interesting little factoids is essential to my salvation so I don't stress over them or feel a necessity to cling to them. What I know is God has all power to do whatever he wants and there must be a simple explanation for it all.
While this discussion is interesting and all I'd submit to you that the necessity you feel to cling to these wild theories may become a stumbling block for people who look at Christianity and are trying to evaluate whether it has any merit. It might seem noble to stand up for your interpretation of scripture but I'd say it is better to be humble about how certain we are about our most ancient writings which are so far removed from us. Yes, I believe God does and has done many mighty miracles such as parting the red sea but I also have try and look at things realistically and think how and why things were done the way they were. If I can't make sense out of it all on some level I must consider that I may be lacking some information. Having to say well because God can do whatever he wants because he is all-powerful suggests God has either changed the way He is doing things or we don't know exactly how it happened so we have to fall back on because God instead of just admitting we may not have all the answers at this point.
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08-23-2014, 11:45 PM #78
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So then what is your definition of ancient??
You want a scientific treatise on Adam's perfect biology. Laughable.
You continue to display your lack of knowledge in all subjects.
First off, what actually causes aging in humans is still a mystery for the most part. This is scientifically true. Your claims to knowing exactly what causes human aging, down to the T, are laughable and in direct opposition to what science knows about the subject.
Lastly, DNA contains all genetic information for every cell. It is responsible for everything. So if the organism's systems have errors or malfunctions, it is due to the design given by the DNA.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownian_motion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_bond
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_potential
Are you saying God stopped Brownian motion, but resumed it for his offspring? Why was that exactly?
Oh, and all that gibberish you wrote about Mt. Everest flood waters...
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08-23-2014, 11:55 PM #79
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I hope that this thread helped some people see the beauty of the Ark, and how it was an incredibly stable design.
And to the rest of you, God loves you. One day, those who have fallen away will see that the materialist and naturalist view of the Universe was wrong, and that it is much deeper and more wonderful than that."Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for thou art with me." - Psalm 23
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08-24-2014, 12:05 AM #80
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08-24-2014, 12:10 AM #81
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08-24-2014, 12:13 AM #82
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08-24-2014, 12:14 AM #83
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"Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for thou art with me." - Psalm 23
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08-24-2014, 12:18 AM #84
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It's highly unlikely. A large wooden boat called the Wyoming ended up not being able to support itself. The wood buckled and twisted because of the sheer size... Noah's ark dimensions as in the Bible are way bigger, and the Wyoming had access to technology from the early 1900s... Noah's boat would have not had that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wyoming_(schooner)
http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi2492.htm
EDIT: here's some more info on why
Allow me to explain. What's known as the square-cube law is pretty familiar: increase an object's dimensions, and its surface area increases by the square of the multiplier, and its weight increases by the cube of the multiplier. But one extension of this law is less familiar. When we scale up an object — take a wooden structural beam as an example — the strength of the beam does not increase as fast as its weight. Applied mechanics and material sciences give us all the tools we need to compute this. In summary, the tensile strength of a beam is a function of its moment and its section modulus. No need to go into the complicated details here — you can look up beam theory on Wikipedia if you want to learn the equations. Scale up a simple wooden beam large enough, the weight will exceed its strength, and it will break from its own weight alone. Scaled up to the immense size of Noah's Ark, a stout wooden box would be unspeakably fragile.
If there was even the gentlest of currents, sufficient pressure would be put on the hull to open its seams. Currents are not a complete, perfectly even flow. They consist of eddies and slow-moving turbulence. This puts uneven pressure on the hull, and Noah's Ark would bend with those eddies like a snake. Even if the water itself was perfectly still, wind would expose the flat-sided Ark's tremendous windage, exerting a shearing force that might well crumple it.
Whether a wooden ship the size of Noah's Ark could be made seaworthy is in grave doubt. At 137 meters (450 feet), Noah's Ark would be the largest wooden vessel ever confirmed to have been built. In recorded history, some dozen or so wooden ships have been constructed over 90 meters; few have been successful. Even so, these wooden ships had a great advantage over Noah's Ark: their curved hull shapes. Stress loads are distributed much more efficiently over three dimensionally curved surfaces than they are over flat surfaces. But even with this advantage, real-world large wooden ships have had severe problems. The sailing ships the 100 meter Wyoming (sunk in 1924) and 99 meter Santiago (sunk in 1918) were so large that they flexed in the water, opening up seams in the hull and leaking. The 102 meter British warships HMS Orlando and HMS Mersey had such bad structural problems that they were scrapped in 1871 and 1875 after only a few years in service. Most of the largest wooden ships were, like Noah's Ark, unpowered barges. Yet even those built in modern times, such as the 103 meter Pretoria in 1901, required substantial amounts of steel reinforcement; and even then needed steam-powered pumps to fight the constant flex-induced leaking.
I haven't read Scripture in almost 5 years and dropped Catholicism completely after HS, although wasn't into it before that. When I did, I never took a literal approach to anything out of anything and only took ideas out of it.
You're right, these stories were passed by word of mouth for a very long time. In fact one of my turn offs (besides the science) was human interference and how it played into how the faith was transformed. How people can take the Bible literally when it was shaped by humans to the point of the addition/non-inclusion of specific books and how things were written in the first place was beyond me. The claim of "The Holy Spirit guided them" and the general "because God" never sat right with meLast edited by dweeegs; 08-24-2014 at 12:23 AM.
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08-24-2014, 12:21 AM #85
why are you so stuck on skunks. the whole story of "noahs ark" is based off the premise that through GOD'S SUPERNATURAL WILL these animals were able to be gathered on the boat.
the problem is you fools want a "scientific" answer to this.
THERE IS NONE, there are only "faith based" answers to this. If you don't have faith in god, you dont have faith in his capabilities.
So heres my answer to you, coming from an ATHEIST: "BECAUSE GOD WILLED IT"
lol @ other atheist saying "oh how was adams DNA replicated" and **** like that. get out of here...
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08-24-2014, 12:24 AM #86
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08-24-2014, 12:37 AM #87
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He's obviously joking
the problem is you fools want a "scientific" answer to this.
THERE IS NONE, there are only "faith based" answers to this. If you don't have faith in god, you dont have faith in his capabilities.
So heres my answer to you to answer in a way that he can accept it, coming from an ATHEIST: "BECAUSE GOD WILLED IT"
lol @ other atheist saying "oh how was adams DNA replicated" and **** like that. get out of here...
One makes claims off of evidence, another just makes claims and is taken literally as the Word of God despite being meddled withChemE in education, SoftwareE in job
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08-24-2014, 12:53 AM #88
lol, i dont think hes joking.
your example doesn't show anything though, all it does is waste space and hinders your own argument.
really? so you think everything you read in your history books are proven conclusively with evidence? Do you have any conclusive evidence that 6 million jews died in the holocaust? absolutely not. history as we know it is also "meddled with", only a fool will disagree. Your college history classes made tons of these claims and is taken literally by millions of students as well.
As for the bible itself, i can tell you truly are ignorant on the topic. The majority of Christians do not take the bible "literally" as you say. the bible is definitely a book thats open for interpretation, which is why christians take a lot of time discussing it/preaching it.
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08-24-2014, 01:02 AM #89
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Bouyancy force calculations are cute. Problem is, floating isn't the problem.
Here's the paper, it's an absolute joke and I actually laughed when I opened it up. They plug-and-chugged one line from a high school equation, giving hope to people who only read headlines everywhere.
*****://physics.le.ac.uk/journals/index.php/pst/article/view/676/475
Lol at everything, good god man
He is, trust me.
I didn't take history in college FYI and don't dabble in it besides basics since it's boring but I don't doubt your claims.
At least history books are sourced when claims are made, good ones at least
As for the bible itself, i can tell you truly are ignorant on the topic. The majority of Christians do not take the bible "literally" as you say. the bible is definitely a book thats open for interpretation, which is why christians take a lot of time discussing it/preaching it.Last edited by dweeegs; 08-24-2014 at 01:24 AM.
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08-24-2014, 01:39 AM #90
Christ****s are the worst
>Ark was good
No it wasn't. Past a certain length wood is impossible to use in the ocean. It would sink since it would bench far too much. Take a look at how big the Wyoming was, OP.
Literally everything about your ark can be refuted by this man in less than 10 minutes. Oh wait, you won't even watch it because it doesn't fit your indoctrinated deluded agenda.
http://youtu.be/z6kgvhG3AkI?t=1h2m2s
Chrit****s will just say "have some faith" after that
Anyways it doesn't matter that slowly and surely more and more fairy tales from the Bible get debunked but please still have some faith!!!!11
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