US Presbyterian Church votes to recognize same-sex marriage as Christian

[ohsoreal]

That's funny because it looks to me like I actually lay out my arguments and address his, rather than just telling him I am right and he is wrong.

- http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...post1260420071


You just posted exactly what I said I do. I argue with him regarding his interpretation of biblical passages regarding homosexuality. That is not attacking him. Fiyero also states that he is right and I am wrong regarding these passages. I don't accuse him of attacking me for that. You're really reaching here. It's funny. I don't know what you are talking about the the heresy/heretics tirade comment. I haven't called anyone or anything a heresy or a heratic itt. If I see something that I think is wrong I will make my view known. If a 'moderate' christian gets their jimmies rustled over that, well too bad.

No, I'm not wrong about the old testament. You are.

lolololol

Ah ok, I understand what you two were arguing about now. Is the bible open to interpretation? It seems to me it is due to the fact are so many differing theological schools of thought. If the bible were that cut an dry there wouldn't be so many different christian sects. This is coming from general observations of a person that rarely attends church, so am I certainly not an authority on the subject.

[ohsoreal]

I have not once ever called him a non-Christian; in fact I've done the opposite and have defended him when others have called him not a Christian. As has Lasher.

Now, do you have any more lies you wish to have corrected?

lolol. says the 'Christian' that thinks an adult telling children "they are a bunch of ****ing lazy pu$$ies" "fuk you!" is ok.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=162031063

[lasher]

lolololol

Marky, may I ask why you are leaving out what fiyero posted before that, and the rest of what I wrote after? why the dishonesty?

I'm sorry lasher, but you're wrong on this point about the Hebrew Bible. There are so many glaring flaws with that view of Leviticus, it's ridiculous.

No, I'm not wrong about the old testament. You are. In the holiness code we have two verses addressing the issue. 18:22 and 20:13. Along with these two verses we also need to consider Genesis 1-3 to understand the broader biblical vision for male and female sexuality.

First of all, your assertion that it is only referring to cultic practices of outside nations is absurd on its face. Here is the full passage in context.

Lev 18.
18 Nor shall you take a woman as a rival to her sister, to uncover her nakedness while the other is alive.

19 ‘Also you shall not approach a woman to uncover her nakedness as long as she is in her customary impurity. 20 Moreover you shall not lie carnally with your neighbor’s wife, to defile yourself with her. 21 And you shall not let any of your descendants pass through the fire to Molech, nor shall you profane the name of your God: I am the Lord. 22 You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. 23 Nor shall you mate with any animal, to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it. It is perversion.

24 ‘Do not defile yourselves with any of these things; for by all these the nations are defiled, which I am casting out before you.



Verse 18 deals with incest.
Verse 19 deals with impurity during sex.
Verse 20 deals with adultery.
Verse 21 prohibits child sacrifice.
Verse 22 prohibits homosexual acts.
Verse 23 prohibits bestiality.

Verse 24 says do not defile yourselves with these things because ALL OF THOSE THINGS WERE THINGS THE NATIONS DEFILED THEMSELVES WITH. THE NATIONS NOW BEING CAST OUT BECAUSE OF IT.


If you continue on through verse 30 you will clearly see the claim is that the egyptians and the canaanites were all judged because of those aberrations. For committing those exact sins. The Israelites are being warned NOT to do the same thing.


It is also not limited to homosexual acts performed in the context of idolatry. The repetition of the prohibition against homosexual intercourse is repeated in 20:13 and does not follow upon references to child sacrifice, but is sandwiched between between prohibitions for incest and adultery. The link to child sacrifice in 18:21 involves the same threats to the family structure that the verses surrounding it did.



So.

1: The reason prohibitions against adultery and homosexuality sandwich the portion against child sacrifice is because all three of these violations are threats against the sanctity of the israelite family.

2: Homosexual intercourse is not linked to idolatry in 20:13.

3: God told israel NOT to follow the ways of the pagan nations, then listed the various sexual sins of the nations, which included practicing homosexual acts.

4: The holiness code was NOT limited to priests. The holiness code occurs in lev 17-26 and urged ALL Israelites, not just the priests, to keep the land, not just the sanctuary, unpolluted through holy obedience to the commands.

5: The laws in 18:22 and 20:13 are unqualified and absolute. They excuse neither party and make no mention of oppressive forms of homoesexual acts. The term used is "Male" not "Neighbor" or "boy, youth" so the question of pederastic behavior does not even enter the picture. The law applied even to non-israelites living among the people of God (18:26). There is no limitation to just cultic prostitution.

Fiyero tells me I am wrong (after presenting his reasons). Then I tell him he is wrong, followed by a long argument why that is. And you want to pretend this is an example of me just declaring him wrong without backing up why?

Shameful dishonesy marky. You are really making yourself look foolish at this point.

[ohsoreal]

Whoops! Found another Christian gem:

Not unless you want your jimmies rustled about how asinine this is.

One of the students they interviewed was a girl - surprise, surprise; she said she wouldn't want to play for him.

I wouldn't expect a girl to understand how men handle things. We don't bake each other brownies and have a cry session when we're pissed off at each other.

I guess being a christian means you have to be a misogynist?

Like I sad, the both of you alienate moderate christians.

[MuscleXtreme]

lolol. says the 'Christian' that thinks an adult telling children "they are a bunch of ****ing lazy pu$$ies" "fuk you!" is ok.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=162031063

Lol, so you went from saying that I told Fiyero a non-Christian (which I haven't)

To digging a thread up about a coach yelling at some kids.

Lol this guy right here.

[MuscleXtreme]

Whoops! Found another Christian gem:



I guess being a christian means you have to be a misogynist?

Like I sad, the both of you alienate moderate christians.

Lol oh man; you're really reaching here.

[mgftp]

Church, always a few hundred years behind.

LoL@ having a vote to enable equal rights. So much hatred and ignorance - religion, not even once.

[ohsoreal]

Marky, may I ask why you are leaving out what fiyero posted before that, and the rest of what I wrote after? why the dishonesty?





Fiyero tells me I am wrong (after presenting his reasons). Then I tell him he is wrong, followed by a long argument why that is. And you want to pretend this is an example of me just declaring him wrong without backing up why?

Shameful dishonesy marky. You are really making yourself look foolish at this point.

You are so full of hubris and self righteousness its almost comical.

Ah ok, I understand what you two were arguing about now. Is the bible open to interpretation? It seems to me it is due to the fact are so many differing theological schools of thought. If the bible were that cut an dry there wouldn't be so many different christian sects. This is coming from general observations of a person that rarely attends church, so am I certainly not an authority on the subject.

Lasher: I am right and you wrong. Because out of all the biblical scholars out there, I am the only one that correctly interprets the bible.

[ohsoreal]

Lol oh man; you're really reaching here.

Not unless you want your jimmies rustled about how asinine this is.

One of the students they interviewed was a girl - surprise, surprise; she said she wouldn't want to play for him.

I wouldn't expect a girl to understand how men handle things. We don't bake each other brownies and have a cry session when we're pissed off at each other.

Christian values 101: Hate on women and tell them they bake brownies. Then wonders why church attendance is at an all time low.

[lasher]

You are so full of hubris and self righteousness its almost comical.



Lasher: I am right and you wrong. Because out of all the biblical scholars out there, I am the only one that correctly interprets the bible.

You've been shown to be a dishonest person. I clearly did not simply say he was wrong. He argued his point and then told me I was wrong. I told him he was wrong and then argued my point. Your accusation was that I simply tell him he is wrong without backing up why that is. You said I don't challenge his interpretation, I just say he is wrong and I am right. You were given clear evidence that this isn't the case. Then you distort the evidence to try and salvage your sinking ship. You are a liar marky.

[MuscleXtreme]

Christian values 101: Hate on women and tell them they bake brownies. Then wonders why church attendance is at an all time low.

Lol whatever you say brosef.

Brb saying women bake brownies is misogynist now.

Brb cis-males/two spirit/womyn/pansexuals bake brownies. Is that how you would prefer it be phrased Marky? LOL!

[ohsoreal]

You've been shown to be a dishonest person. I clearly did not simply say he was wrong. He argued his point and then told me I was wrong. I told him he was wrong and then argued my point. Your accusation was that I simply tell him he is wrong without backing up why that is. You said I don't challenge his interpretation, I just say he is wrong and I am right. You were given clear evidence that this isn't the case. Then you distort the evidence to try and salvage your sinking ship. You are a liar marky.

No it wasnt. Re-read what I wrote. You still dont get it. So convinced in your righteousness...

This all started when you told Fiyero, that he never admitted he was wrong, not once. Neither have you.

You accuse him of misleading people. <--- that one is pretty comical. Someone expresses their opinion adn you say they are misleading people.

[lasher]

No it wasnt. Re-read what I wrote. You still dont get it. So convinced in your righteousness...

This all started when you told Fiyero, that he never admitted he was wrong, not once. Neither have you.

You accuse him of misleading people. <--- that one is pretty comical. Someone expresses their opinion adn you say they are misleading people.

Actually it started when Fiyero called someone a fundy because they can never admit they are wrong.

I think the post record on this page speaks for itself. You are a dishonest liar. And now that is clear.

[ohsoreal]

Lol whatever you say brosef.

Brb saying women bake brownies is misogynist now.

Brb cis-males/two spirit/womyn/pansexuals bake brownies. Is that how you would prefer it be phrased Marky? LOL!

Not unless you want your jimmies rustled about how asinine this is.

One of the students they interviewed was a girl - surprise, surprise; she said she wouldn't want to play for him.

I wouldn't expect a girl to understand how men handle things. We don't bake each other brownies and have a cry session when we're pissed off at each other.

^^

ITT: Musclextreme thinks the above statement is fine.

I had no idea that when upset, women bake each other brownies and have cry sessions. While men tell children to "fuk off"

Tell me Musclextreme...what other christian tidbits can you shed on the topic?

[ohsoreal]

Actually it started when Fiyero called someone a fundy because they can never admit they are wrong.

I think the post record on this page speaks for itself. You are a dishonest liar. And now that is clear.

Which was an accurate statement....

You an MuscleXtreme are like two peas in a pod.

[lasher]

Which was an accurate statement....

You an MuscleXtreme are like two peas in a pod.

I'm not really concerned about a character judgement from a dishonest liar.

[MuscleXtreme]

^^

ITT: Musclextreme thinks the above statement is fine.

I had no idea that when upset, women bake each other brownies and have cry sessions. While men tell children to "fuk off"

Tell me Musclextreme...what other christian tidbits can you shed on the topic?

cis-males/two spirit/womyn/pansexuals bake brownies. Is that how you would prefer it be phrased Marky?

[lasher]

You're losing your edge markymark. It might be time to retire from trolling bb.com

[ohsoreal]

I'm not really concerned about a character judgement from a dishonest liar.

i gotta be honest with you, Im not really concerned about character judgement from an anonymous person online. lol

[ohsoreal]

cis-males/two spirit/womyn/pansexuals bake brownies. Is that how you would prefer it be phrased Marky?

What I would like to see:

You make this statement to a female supervisor:

I wouldn't expect a girl to understand how men handle things. We don't bake each other brownies and have a cry session when we're pissed off at each other.

lol. You christians are a funny bunch, I will give you all that.


Edit: I just realized MuscleXtreme is a science denier. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=162641651
This is all starting to make sense.

[lasher]

i gotta be honest with you,

stopped reading there

[metroins]

I don't want to read the 9 page thread.

Have we decided if this is a good thing or a bad thing yet?

[ohsoreal]

stopped reading there

lol

[ohsoreal]

I don't want to read the 9 page thread.

Have we decided if this is a good thing or a bad thing yet?

Its a good thing: 1) forum fundies are mad. 3) Fiyero, mntbikedude, etc can now get married in a church.

[b.spencer]

I don't want to read the 9 page thread.

Have we decided if this is a good thing or a bad thing yet?

Nope.

The Christians are mouthing amongst themselves about just who is on God's side and just who understands what comes "straight from God's brain to your mouth" (as Bart Simpson called it.) Same as normal.

[b.spencer]

Its a good thing: 1) forum fundies are mad. 3) Fiyero, mntbikedude, etc can now get married in a church.

MBD did get married in a church, a long time ago .... for the record.

[MuscleXtreme]

What I would like to see:

You make this statement to a female supervisor:



lol. You christians are a funny bunch, I will give you all that.


Edit: I just realized MuscleXtreme is a science denier. http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=162641651
This is all starting to make sense.

You haven't answered my question. Instead went off on a tangent.

Posting an article is now a "science denier".

Troll gonna troll

[mntbikedude]

MBD did get married in a church, a long time ago .... for the record.

Right and also just to clarify I don't get in these battles so that some day I can marry a dude. At this time I'm still married to my wife and we are still trying to make things work. If things didn't work out and we were divorced I really can't see me ever wanting to get married again to either a man or a women.

My whole purpose in this discussion isn't so I could get some church approval to go and live gay. I'm way past needing that or caring what the church or anyone else thinks about it. My interest is to help the next generation to be able to deal with this in a much healthier way than we have in the past. I have 4 children and none of them are gay. But I expect to have many grandchildren and odds are that some will be gay. The work I do now is for them.

And it's always good to see you B.

[HELIX35]

Yeah, the roots of anti-homosexuality are about avoiding pathogens and it is rational.

By that logic so is banning anything that can be considered harmful

Always interesting to see so called freedom loving Americans fully embrace the idea of banning freedom

[b.spencer]

Right and also just to clarify I don't get in these battles so that some day I can marry a dude. At this time I'm still married to my wife and we are still trying to make things work. If things didn't work out and we were divorced I really can't see me ever wanting to get married again to either a man or a women.

My whole purpose in this discussion isn't so I could get some church approval to go and live gay. I'm way past needing that or caring what the church or anyone else thinks about it. My interest is to help the next generation to be able to deal with this in a much healthier way than we have in the past. I have 4 children and none of them are gay. But I expect to have many grandchildren and odds are that some will be gay. The work I do now is for them.

And it's always good to see you B.

Thanks, and since you are on spread, just say I hope you had good time at the item you mentioned. I doubt I will do it again, but who knows.

I am the same as far as personal marriage goes. That's not why I fight this fight. It is so that the people who want to get married can do so, without anyone enforcing their religious beliefs or personal sexual taboos on them with the sword of the state.