Intermediate/Advanced Routine - Revision 1

[MichielN]

also how are you guys going through the excersizes?

like all one area at once (legs, then chest, then back) <keeping strain on the given area for the allotted exc

or just going random... chest, legs, back legs etc

I like to keep the order of the first three compounds consistent (legs-back-chest), after that I don't really care, whatever is available/free

[eriquee]

also how are you guys going through the excersizes?

like all one area at once (legs, then chest, then back) <keeping strain on the given area for the allotted exc

or just going random... chest, legs, back legs etc

I follow the order Kelei wrote.

[RGA8]

also how are you guys going through the excersizes?

like all one area at once (legs, then chest, then back) <keeping strain on the given area for the allotted exc

or just going random... chest, legs, back legs etc

I've been doing them mostly in the order written but switching exercises around depending on what's available. Ex. If both benches are taken I'll do leg curls and come back.

I actually love that about this routine. I train at a really busy time so there can be lots of downtime waiting for equipment. This full body revision gives a lot more flexibility to change the order on the fly. It only takes me about an hour and 15 mins and I feel like I accomplished more each day than on the old routine. Less downtime and more overall intensity.

Loving it so far!

[ctprelude]

Not sure, I found out my maintenance using my old routine.
But would that matter much?
The volume for recomping is the same as for bulking.

I meant in terms of this routine being a much bigger energy expenditure compared to my prior routine, I had to adjust my calories up higher than my maintenance level was prior. Just keep an eye on your weight and adjust your calories it accordingly.

[TeamKelei]

Great routine Kelei. Been doing this for 3 days. Can I use military press on day 1 and behind the neck press on day 2?
Upright rows hurt my right shoulder, and lateral raises don't feel right on me.

[VLokkY]

Just finished day 2.
What a workout..
Since I can't do leg curls / extensions I opted to do lunges.

also how are you guys going through the excersizes?

like all one area at once (legs, then chest, then back) <keeping strain on the given area for the allotted exc

or just going random... chest, legs, back legs etc

For me I keep to guide given, however I swapped most of the leg exercises to be first in line.
If its a bad day I know I'll end up skipping them if they would be near the end.

[mattj15]

I've done workout A, B, and then A again and I am fatigued like no other. It's not DOMS either my body needs to get adjusted to this increased volume. Love the routine though! Dat full body pump

[fabiomoser]

I know I haven't posted in a while sry about that. I started the revised routine two days ago so today will be my second A workout. definitely starting to feel it. I really like the intensity that you get when you can just go to the next exercise without any rest. I just do the exercises in the order Kelei stated and I added the dumbbell chest flyes at the end of A and reverse flyes at the end of B.

[Kelei]

Can I use military press on day 1 and behind the neck press on day 2?

No.

Upright rows hurt my right shoulder, and lateral raises don't feel right on me.

There are plenty of side lateral variations available, experiment until you find one that you like.

[reinvdw]

You were right...
Weights starting to increase

[jmmainvi]

Upright rows hurt my right shoulder, and lateral raises don't feel right on me.

I said the same thing the first dozen times I did lateral raises. They're now one of my favorite exercises. Make sure you start REALLY light if you've never done them before, and work up from there. Lighter than you think you need to. And of course, as Kelei said experiment with different styles.

First B workout down today. Haven't done Pullups (just chins) for the last 8 months or so, and never done chest supported DB rows (only the 1leg/1 arm on bench Isolateral variety) so this was quite a shock on my back. Loved the workout overall though, but it took me an hour and a half rather than 1:15 - gotta get those rest periods down.

Definitely feels like a completely different workout from the old routine, but I like it so far. Except for the hamstring curls. I cant stand hamstring curls.

[OfTheHill]

Have done days A and B.
Great workouts!
I've been doing 20 reps for now. After 2 weeks or so I bump it up to 30.

Question about warm ups.
How do you guys do the warm up sets?
Or you jump right into the work set without any warm up sets?

[fabiomoser]

Have done days A and B.
Great workouts!
I've been doing 20 reps for now. After 2 weeks or so I bump it up to 30.

Question about warm ups.
How do you guys do the warm up sets?
Or you jump right into the work set without any warm up sets?

usually I jump right in. there are only two exercises I do one easy warm up set for: Front Squats/Leg Press and Romanian Deadlifts

[Tropicos]

Im guessing flies would be best added onto day B with dips

would you also do some flies on day A or just leave it with bench? (i love training chest just 30 reps on bench doesnt sound enough :'( haha im sure it will be when iv gone through a week of it though!

This routine does enough for the chest, you don't want your anything out of proportion. Today I did dips and I really was feeling it in my chest.
Don't know why you say only 30 reps, because at the end of the week you've done 210 reps if you do this routine entire week or 150 if you do this 5 days, that's sounds enough

[Tropicos]

Question about warm ups.
How do you guys do the warm up sets?
Or you jump right into the work set without any warm up sets?

Just first set you don't take you maximum weight but a little below and just 5 reps, after that just start with the routine.
you don't want your body spent to much energy with warming up

[Tropicos]

Great routine Kelei. Been doing this for 3 days. Can I use military press on day 1 and behind the neck press on day 2?
Upright rows hurt my right shoulder, and lateral raises don't feel right on me.

lateral raises are one of the most difficult exercises for me, because it's a movement your body is not used to do. But it's worth to do.

I got problem with rope pressdown, I feel great tension in my shoulder when I've done my reps and I'm letting go the rope, it hurts for few seconds. Weird because I only feel it with this exercise and only when I'm going back to start position when I've done my reps. Even changing the rope with a bar doesn't help

[KeleiIsAQT]

Hi all, i have a few questions if anyone can answer:
1) i tried to do a couple of dips today in preparation for tomorrow's workout but it hurt my shoulder too much (the bars were ~shoulder width apart), what can i substitute for them?
2) I can't do overhead extensions because of my shiity elbow, what can i do instead? tricep pressdown everyday? that sounds fun, it's actually one of my favourite exercises lol
3) just to clarify, we should offset any chest exercises with upper back exercises?
4) i remember from the last thread that kelei suggested to do bicep curls on an incline bench with hammer curl style going up and supinated grip going down (or the other way round). is that still the case?
5) you say that ab workouts are a waste of time and energy, but what if your abs aren't developed yet? i was gonna buy a second hand wheelbarrow for a fiver and make an ab wheel lol

Thanks in advance for replies as always.

[ThatOneLurker]

lateral raises are one of the most difficult exercises for me, because it's a movement your body is not used to do. But it's worth to do.

I got problem with rope pressdown, I feel great tension in my shoulder when I've done my reps and I'm letting go the rope, it hurts for few seconds. Weird because I only feel it with this exercise and only when I'm going back to start position when I've done my reps. Even changing the rope with a bar doesn't help

Retract your shoulderblades back (or keep a neutral shoulder, do not let your shoulders protract during this exercise), chest out

moderate knee bend, tight abs

and do them this way. Cleared up any delt involvement on my side.

Hi all, i have a few questions if anyone can answer:
1) i tried to do a couple of dips today in preparation for tomorrow's workout but it hurt my shoulder too much (the bars were ~shoulder width apart), what can i substitute for them?
2) I can't do overhead extensions because of my shiity elbow, what can i do instead? tricep pressdown everyday? that sounds fun, it's actually one of my favourite exercises lol
3) just to clarify, we should offset any chest exercises with upper back exercises?
4) i remember from the last thread that kelei suggested to do bicep curls on an incline bench with hammer curl style going up and supinated grip going down (or the other way round). is that still the case?
5) you say that ab workouts are a waste of time and energy, but what if your abs aren't developed yet? i was gonna buy a second hand wheelbarrow for a fiver and make an ab wheel lol

Thanks in advance for replies as always.

1) can you do flat benching?

2) Have you tried overhead extensions with a cable?

3) offset any extra chest exercises by a horizontal pulling movement (flat bench --> seated rows pulling bar to pecs, dips --> chest supported DB rows, DB flyes --> reverse DB flyes)


4) Go up and down supinated.

5) I was actually wondering this myself lol. Kelei your abs are already at the advanced stage so obviously core work won't do anything for you. For those that aren't at the advanced level how would direct ab work not speed up it's development?



On a sidenote I tried the guillotine/neck press today. No shoulder issues, chest stretch was amazing but even so I'm not going to risk it. Did weighted dips instead.


I'll stick with a flat BB bench, incline DB bench setup and throw in dips/reverse flyes on days where I have the time to do them.

[Jartie]

5) you say that ab workouts are a waste of time and energy, but what if your abs aren't developed yet? i was gonna buy a second hand wheelbarrow for a fiver and make an ab wheel lol

5) I was actually wondering this myself lol. Kelei your abs are already at the advanced stage so obviously core work won't do anything for you. For those that aren't at the advanced level how would direct ab work not speed up it's development?

I think the right answer to this question is: just get very strong at front squats and chin-ups, lol.

[CollegiateTRACK]

So I tried to go to my athletic director for my university but he said I had to go see some other person in student services. So that doc told me I have a strain..but she literally couldn't tell me if it was my bicep, shoulder, or chest. She gave me Naproxen Sodium (anti-inflammatory) medicine. Does anyone know any other remedies for a strained muscle?

Also, Kelei didn't you say you were going to switch upper body to 6-10 reps vs 8-12? I doubt it makes a HUGE difference but I would like to see why you didn't change to the 6-10. In the previous thread you said you think the upper body responds better to 6-10 so should we switch it?

I love all the advice everyone is putting out. Keep it up!

[Tropicos]

Retract your shoulderblades back (or keep a neutral shoulder, do not let your shoulders protract during this exercise), chest out

moderate knee bend, tight abs

and do them this way. Cleared up any delt involvement on my side.

Thanks! Will try this tomorrow

[icedearth80]

Have done days A and B.
Great workouts!
I've been doing 20 reps for now. After 2 weeks or so I bump it up to 30.

Question about warm ups.
How do you guys do the warm up sets?
Or you jump right into the work set without any warm up sets?

Sounds like some other people don't.. but I don't see why not warm up. I do 50% of my work weight for like 10 quick reps then do like 2-3 reps each of 2 weights in between(maybe 60-80%?) with no rest between. Seems like a good idea to get the blood pumping and practice form a bit.

Kelei, is there any benefit to doing the order pairing up antagonistic movements? Like you start front dominant legs, then push forward to pull back, posterior chain, pushing up to pulling down, calves, triceps to biceps. Well, I guess you'd use legs like a spacer.

[ThatOneLurker]

I'll do 2 warm up sets for Front squats and benching. 1 warm up set for every other compound. No warm ups for Isolations.

[69cam]

I warm up on compounds not on isolation movements.

[roberto487]

So no rest-pause on the calf exercises? Total rep 45? Increase weigths on the second and third set if first set beats the Max RM?

"For standing calf raises you should select around a 15RM and perform 3 straight sets to failure with 60 seconds rest between sets, add more weight once you can complete 20 reps in your first set. For seated calf raises you should select around a 20RM and perform 3 straight sets to failure with 30 seconds rest between sets, add more weight once you can complete 30 reps in your first set.

[krysix]

So no rest-pause on the calf exercises? Total rep 45? Increase weigths on the second and third set if first set beats the Max RM?

"For standing calf raises you should select around a 15RM and perform 3 straight sets to failure with 60 seconds rest between sets, add more weight once you can complete 20 reps in your first set. For seated calf raises you should select around a 20RM and perform 3 straight sets to failure with 30 seconds rest between sets, add more weight once you can complete 30 reps in your first set.

I think he is pretty clear there.
Standing calf raises: 3 straight sets to failure, 60 seconds rest, add weight when you get 20 reps in the first set.
Seated calf raises: 3 straight sets to failure, 30 seconds rest, add weight when you get 30 reps in the first set.

[eriquee]

Pretty clear to me as well.

[seezam]

I know the seated calf raises work a slightly different part of the muscle than standing calf raises but I still haven't found a method that works for me. I don't know how you guys are putting a loaded BB on your lap without any pain...I've tried plates as well. My next idea is to flip some dumbells over and put the heads on each one of my knees but if that doesn't work I don't know what I can do seeing as my gym does not have a machine. I was thinking of just doing standing calf raises again but that's obviously not optimal.

[KeleiIsAQT]

I know the seated calf raises work a slightly different part of the muscle than standing calf raises but I still haven't found a method that works for me. I don't know how you guys are putting a loaded BB on your lap without any pain...I've tried plates as well. My next idea is to flip some dumbells over and put the heads on each one of my knees but if that doesn't work I don't know what I can do seeing as my gym does not have a machine. I was thinking of just doing standing calf raises again but that's obviously not optimal.

try using the leg press machine with a bend in your knees

[DravenCarey]

I think he is pretty clear there.
Standing calf raises: 3 straight sets to failure, 60 seconds rest, add weight when you get 20 reps in the first set.
Seated calf raises: 3 straight sets to failure, 30 seconds rest, add weight when you get 30 reps in the first set.

My big questions is whether or not there is a target rep to go for? Still 45 reps total for standing and 60 for sitting? Or just 3 sets to failure regardless of how many reps you get?

Also, can I replace reverse DB flys with rear delt flys? Or is this not the same targeted muscle group(s).

And lastly, am I correct in understanding that dips are currently being used as a chest exercise (by leaning as far forward as comfortable) and are not in here as a tricep exercise?

Thanks everyone, looking forward to my first A day tomorrow =D