Does Deylayed Onset Muscle Soreness(DOMS) equal growth?
They say, "no pain no gain"
so is the pain you free from DOMS the gain?
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Thread: Does DOMS=Growth?
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05-02-2012, 01:19 PM #1
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05-02-2012, 01:21 PM #2
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05-02-2012, 04:48 PM #3
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05-02-2012, 04:54 PM #4
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05-02-2012, 05:36 PM #5
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05-02-2012, 05:42 PM #6
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05-02-2012, 06:11 PM #7
No, you don't need DOMS to grow. I wouldn't be disappointed about it. There's going to be some days or even weeks you don't feel sore. Now you know that this doesn't mean you aren't growing.
I love lifting plates and bars.
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05-02-2012, 06:26 PM #8
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05-02-2012, 09:11 PM #9
Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness does not guarantee growth, however you can use it as a sign your workout targeted the intended muscles.
For example, after a chest and back workout if the next day your triceps or shoulders are more sore then your chest and back you may need to re select your exercises and better analyze your form.
As others have said it is primarily to do with doing a movement you havent done lately which is why its best used only to evaluate which muscles you targetted with the new movement.Last edited by Bradster101190; 05-02-2012 at 09:17 PM.
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05-02-2012, 09:37 PM #10
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05-03-2012, 06:02 AM #11
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05-03-2012, 06:42 AM #12
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05-03-2012, 06:49 AM #13
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05-03-2012, 09:28 AM #14
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05-03-2012, 10:15 AM #15
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05-03-2012, 10:22 AM #16
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05-03-2012, 10:25 AM #17
You're talking more like a powerlifter than a bodybuilder.
A bodybuilder's "progress" is gaining muscular size. You gain size (hypertrophy) via muscular adaption to stress. If it takes 3 weeks to adapt to a certain weight/reps, and thus you grow during those 3 weeks, but you have no change in weight/reps, are you saying that there is no progress? False.Alba Gu Brath
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Civil Engineering '13
May The Force be with you, always.
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05-03-2012, 10:34 AM #18
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05-03-2012, 11:01 AM #19
Sorry, I'll try again :-P
John Doe is benching 225 lbs for 4x6. It takes him 3 weeks to adapt to that weight/reps, so 3 weeks later he is able to do either 235 lbs for 4x6 or 225 lbs for 4x7 (something like that, for sake of example).
During that 3-week period of adaption, he is still growing. By bodybuilding standards, he is "progressing." However, he is not adding weight or reps 'each week' during that adaption process.
I was simply trying to show that Jasonk282's logic is not absolute; you can still progress without adding weight/reps each week (or even every other week).
But I definitely agree that adding weight/reps each week is progress (by strength standards anyway; I would argue that growth is a better measure of progress when it comes to bodybuilding).
Hope this clears it upAlba Gu Brath
ISSA CFT
Civil Engineering '13
May The Force be with you, always.
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05-03-2012, 11:27 AM #20
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05-03-2012, 12:22 PM #21
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no...
if someone stays 2-3 weeks doing the same weights as last week, he is barely progressing by any means. There is no extra stimulus.
Infact It goes beyond logic that someone would stay in the same weight and rep range for no reason what so ever. If he has hit is targets, then next week calls for an overload.
If you stay 3 weeks doing the same weight, you won't be able to do a big jump in weight the time you decide to move the weights, it is baby steps, and thus the guy that has made a strive every week to improve will be considerately ahead in terms of strength and growth.
What elicits more growth 225 4x6 for 3 weeks or 225 x 4x6 , 230 4x6 and a probable 235 x 5x5. My money would always go to the guy that is making progress. For strength and bodybuilding."Do not subordinate fundamental principles to minor details."
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05-03-2012, 12:34 PM #22
We can agree to disagree. I've had periods where I add 10lbs every single week for every lift; other times, I'm at the same weight for a few weeks but I still gain 1-3 lbs.
So if one BBer is adding a tiny bit of weight each week and growing, and another is at the same weight for a few weeks but still growing, are you saying that only the 1st BBer is making progress? That's nonsense.Alba Gu Brath
ISSA CFT
Civil Engineering '13
May The Force be with you, always.
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05-03-2012, 12:36 PM #23
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05-03-2012, 02:35 PM #24
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05-03-2012, 02:45 PM #25
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05-03-2012, 04:21 PM #26
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05-03-2012, 04:23 PM #27
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05-03-2012, 04:26 PM #28
Just give you a little heads up on something I read by Brad in a recent NSCA article about Hypertrophy by Brad Schoenfeld, getting his Phd in Muscle hypertrophy:
His quote which to me has a lot of merit:"DOMS per se does not mediate hypertrophy, but the underlying muscle damage that is generally associated with the soreness very well may. I wrote a review paper on the topic that appears in this month's JSCR. As far as lactic acid, there is evidence that it does play a role in hypertrophy, as part of metabolic stress factors that mediate anabolism. I have a paper currently under review that addresses this topic."
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05-03-2012, 07:21 PM #29
It seems like you're mixing up the sequence of the hypertrophy process. I'm not sure if you're just trying to use logic or what, but think about it purely from a mechanical and physiological standpoint.
1. The muscle is in its 'present' state (at a certain strength-level, at a certain size, etc.)
2. The muscle is stressed at a level just beyond maximum of what it can handle comfortably.
3. The muscle must adapt to 'survive'. It grows/gains strength so that it can then handle that stress level (from step #2) comfortably.
4. The muscle is now at a new 'present' state (a new strength-level, probably new size, etc.)
5. The muscle now needs a higher stress level than #2, but still a level that is relatively just beyond maximum of what it can handle comfortably.
6. The muscle must adapt to 'survive'. It grows/gains strength so that it can then handle that stress level (from step #5) comfortably.
7. etc.......
Don't you see that it adapts to meet the applied stress, via growth? How can you possibly advance to the stress level in step #5 if it hasn't finished adapting to step #2? If you move on to #5 you probably haven't benefited from all the growth that you can get from #2. You're assuming that the muscle completely adapts to the stress level in #2 before the next workout. That doesn't always happen. That's all I'm saying. That's not stagnating if you're growing from it. I have been at a certain weight on a lift for 2 or 3 weeks but still growing from it, because it's taken that long for my muscles to adapt. The key word is adapt.
This has become something larger than I expected. If you still disagree with this, I don't know what to say. I laid out physiology 101, plain and simple. Hope this helpsAlba Gu Brath
ISSA CFT
Civil Engineering '13
May The Force be with you, always.
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05-03-2012, 07:36 PM #30
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