Bodybuilding Mythbusters

[DDon1996]

Well, this thread may be a flop, but I'm bored and I'll give it a shot.

The bodybuilding industry (I say this encompassing all aspects: Nutrition, kinesthetics, supplementation, etc) is full of misinformation. The myths in this industry run rampant. What's worse is that often times these myths are purported by people you would expect to be knowledgeable in the field (doctors, supplement representatives, nutritionists, dietitians, personal trainers, etc)....... So where can you turn? There is only ONE way to get correct information free of bias and bull****, can you guess what it is?

SCIENCE!

So, in addition to all of the recent "Guide" threads, the "Ask a Guy Anything" threads, and all other threads of the sort... I've decided to make this thread. It's dynamic, with user input being the driving factor, and it's informative. Any one is free to chip in, especially the members with a good rep around here (B1g, Cajun, Bitter, Matt, Air, Jake, whoever else I'm forgetting <3) as long as you have SCIENCE backing you, and try to keep as much bias out as possible. This thread's sole purpose is to debunk common lies spread around the bodybuilding world, and help spread the truth.
Post as many myths as you like, and we'll do our best to either confirm or deny them.

So, to kick it off, I've got a few I see often that are ridiculous...


The first- possibly the most common myth since the creation of bodybuilding....


MEAL FREQUENCY!

Often, you see things like:

"Eat every 2-3 hours to burn more fat!" or "Your body needs a constant supply of protein to keep it building muscle."
You see these both in magazines and online, but recently this statement is being challenged more often online (usually without reason).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8...ubmed_RVDocSum

This study compared 5 meals a day to 2 meals a day, both with the same total caloric intake. The conclusion of this study came to be: "With the method used for determination of DIT no significant effect of meal frequency on the contribution of DIT to ADMR could be demonstrated."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9155494

This is some-what of an analysis of ALL studies done regarding meal frequency and energy expenditure (calories burnt). It essentially states that most studies are neutral on the matter, that is meal frequency has no effect on metabolism. The VERY few studies saying otherwise were likely flawed.

http://www.slideshare.net/biolayne/o...nd-muscle-mass

That is a slideshow done by Dr. Layne Norton. It essentially shows that protein synthesis is not related to an absolute increase in plasma amino levels, which would be sustained by frequent meals. It's hypothesized that plasma amino spikes are able to stimulate protein synthesis at a much greater rate. This would actually support eating LESS frequently rather than more frequently.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17413096

Here's another study that may be taking this myth and completely reversing it. It showed that although eating one meal/day as opposed to three caused an increase in hunger, it actually caused a DECREASE in fat mass, it also showed decrease in the catabolic hormone cortisol.


Myth DENIED! Eating every two to three hours is definitely not necessary, and is quite likely even less beneficial than eating every 5-6 hours, possibly more.



Another common thing I hear... You MUST IMMEDIATELY take a fast-digesting protein, such as whey, prior to working out to stimulate the best gains.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21045172

This study showed that immediate responses to whey and casein ingestion were different... But the end result was the same. They both stimulated protein synthesis equally.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15570142

This study shows almost exactly the same thing. Both proteins caused equal protein synthesis.

These findings are only compounded by having solid pre workout nutrition. A quote by Alan Aragon states: "Properly done preworkout nutrition EASILY elevates insulin above and beyond the maximal threshold seen to inhibit muscle protein breakdown. This insulin elevation resulting from the preworkout meal can persist long after your resistance training bout is done. Therefore, thinking you need to spike anything is only the result of neglecting your preW nutrition"

Myth, again, DENIED! You do not need a fast-digesting protein immediately postworkout. Nor do you need ANY protein post workout provided you are not lifting in a fasted state.



Another common myth deals with training frequency. ALL THE TIME people make these ridiculous splits and worry about overtraining.

http://forum.body-fitness.nl/The-inf...y-m500296.aspx


Here are a few quotes directly from that article:

"Some evidence suggests that the training frequency has a large impact on the rate of gain in muscle volume for shorter periods of training."

"For hypertrophy, studies suggest that training two or three times per week is superior to training one time per week, even when volume is equal."

But you don't train for size, you train for strength????

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16287373

This is from a meta-analysis of a ****load of people. It's not a little study on a small group. It shows that maximal strength gains for beginners (which most people who ask are) are elicited at 3 days/week.... And it then moves to 2 days/week and STAYS THERE. Never does it mention the best strength gains occurring when you train once per week (I can see an argument possibly being made for the elite, but no one here is, so it's irrelevant).

MYTH DENIED! You will not die from training more than once per weekly, and on the contrary, you will more than likely actually gain BETTER with the increase in training frequency.


Well, I figure this OP is long enough. This thread is now open to all other questions and answers, GOGOGOGGOGO!

[MrB1g]

1nd

[BHillz]

2rd.

[Energized]

3th

[.Excalibur]

In!

[robertowns955]

Testosterone levels highest in teen years a myth? gogo

[perryvillelax93]

I have to admit I always was a believer in the protein shake after a workout. But those studies changed my mind on that one. Looking forward to this thread.

[StrongViolence]

Information thread is informational. Thanks ddon, good read.

[AlphaSaiyan]

Testosterone levels highest in teen years a myth? gogo

Testosterone levels peak at 21 as far as I know.

Good info ddon

[DDon1996]

Testosterone levels highest in teen years a myth? gogo

I have a feeling this will be very hard to prove, someone else may have access to resources I do not. Testosterone levels in teens are not a common area for research.

http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homep...yclo_Entry.pdf
"In humans,
testosterone levels peak in the late teens to
early twenties."

That's about all I have.. I'll keep looking though.

Edit: Throwing a bit of common sense out there- just look at the virilization. It's fairly evident that my high voice, lack of facial hair, and open epiphyseal plates (just a few examples) hint more toward lower testosterone than a 25 year old's full beard, deep voice, and growth maturation.

I have to admit I always was a believer in the protein shake after a workout. But those studies changed my mind on that one. Looking forward to this thread.

Information thread is informational. Thanks ddon, good read.

Thanks guys!

[MrB1g]

The old, 'high protein diet is bad for your kidneys.'

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16174292

One of the typical mum arguments, as has been well established, a high protein diet holds NO health risks provided there is no heridetary or pre-existing conditions.


'While protein restriction may be appropriate for treatment of existing kidney disease, we find no significant evidence for a detrimental effect of high protein intakes on kidney function in healthy persons after centuries of a high protein Western diet.'

[Steven119]

support. But if meals that are eaten every 2-3 hours vs every 5-6 hours, with no difference, there is not much of a problem, minus it doesnt always feel that great to try and stuff down 1k-1.5k cals per meal, if you only eat 3 times a day.

Question though, I have heard that there is a general "limit" to the amount of protein you can eat at one time (ie, eating 100g of protein for a meal) whereas people have said that only 30-50g are able to be used.

What would be the correct science around that?

Edit: Also, what about dairy products? I have also heard that dairy in large amounts isn't the best for your body.

[Dgwear]

This study compared 5 meals a day to 2 meals a day, both with the same total caloric intake. The conclusion of this study came to be: "With the method used for determination of DIT no significant effect of meal frequency on the contribution of DIT to ADMR could be demonstrated."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9155494

this is kinda mindphucking. so if i eat a huge breakfast and a huge dinner its no diffrent then 5 meals? does this mean your body doesnt have a limit to how much protein is digested an hour?

[Wiley87]

Great thread. Will be checking on this one.

[DDon1996]

support. But if meals that are eaten every 2-3 hours vs every 5-6 hours, with no difference, there is not much of a problem, minus it doesnt always feel that great to try and stuff down 1k-1.5k cals per meal, if you only eat 3 times a day.

Question though, I have heard that there is a general "limit" to the amount of protein you can eat at one time (ie, eating 100g of protein for a meal) whereas people have said that only 30-50g are able to be used.

What would be the correct science around that?

Edit: Also, what about dairy products? I have also heard that dairy in large amounts isn't the best for your body.

This study compared 5 meals a day to 2 meals a day, both with the same total caloric intake. The conclusion of this study came to be: "With the method used for determination of DIT no significant effect of meal frequency on the contribution of DIT to ADMR could be demonstrated."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9155494

this is kinda mindphucking. so if i eat a huge breakfast and a huge dinner its no diffrent then 5 meals? does this mean your body doesnt have a limit to how much protein is digested an hour?

Roughly the same question here- and here's a good article by Alan Aragon addressing the issue...

http://www.wannabebig.com/diet-and-n...a-single-meal/

[MrB1g]

Squats to depth are bad for your knees.

http://www.trulyhuge.com/news/tips68g.html (not a PubMed source, but the section I'm quoting is very much legit.)


You hear this one from all the gym bro's. Ignore it.


'This causes a lot of compressive forces against the patella, and pulls forcefully against the posterior cruciate ligament. These potentially destructive forces become significantly less as you descend further into the squat position.'


'The second reason is that, because of better leverage doing partials, you’re obliged to use a far heavier weight in order to gain any sort of adaptive overload on the muscles involved; dangerous to the entire shoulder girdle, neck, low back, and knees.'


Edit: To clarify, the quotes I took are referring to squats ABOVE parellel.

[YAHIR-702]

subscribetothisthread.jgp

[MrB1g]

You must lift heavy things up, and put heavy things down for big muscles.

Or must you?

As much as it pains me to post this particular article:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0012033


Training at 30% of your 1RM to failure was more effective in elevating acute muscle anabolism then 90% of your 1RM to failure.

[zepplin92]

Saturated Fats are bad

Most people I know and talk to think fats are bad and you should stay away from them.

I also have a few people in my family who think saturated fats are the worst for you, and these same people never drink full fat milk/cheese, red meats, fast food etc etc (pisses me off when I try to explain the importance of everything in moderation, and they take no interest in listening to me).

The below studies clearly indicate fats (saturated fats in particular) can make a significant impact on androstenedione, free testosterone, and total testosterone levels.

Decrease of serum total and free testosterone during a low-fat high-fibre diet.
Hämäläinen EK, Adlercreutz H, Puska P, Pietinen P.

Abstract
The concentrations of serum total and free testosterone were studied in 30 healthy, middle-aged men during a dietary intervention program. When men were transferred from their customary diet to an experimental diet, which contained less fat with a higher polyunsaturated/saturated ratio (P/S-ratio) and more fibre, there was a significant decrease in serum total testosterone concentrations (22.7 +/- 1.2 vs 19.3 +/- 1.1 nmol/l SEM, P less than 0.001). Furthermore, serum free, unbound testosterone fell from 0.23 +/- 0.01 to 0.20 +/- 0.01 nmol/l SEM (P less than 0.01). The hormonal changes were reversible. This observation suggests that testosterone activity in plasma can at least partly be modified by changing the composition of the diet.

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6298507

Diet and serum sex hormones in healthy men.
Hämäläinen E, Adlercreutz H, Puska P, Pietinen P.

Abstract
The possible effect of dietary fat content and the ratio of polyunsaturated to saturated fatty acids (P/S-ratio) on serum sex hormones was studied in 30 healthy male volunteers. The customary diet of the subjects, which supplied 40% of energy as fat (mainly from animal sources, P/S-ratio 0.15) was replaced for a 6 weeks period by a practically isocaloric experimental diet containing significantly less fat (25% of energy) with a higher P/S-ratio (1.22) and other environmental factors were stabilized. Serum testosterone and 4-androstenedione decreased from 22.7 +/- 1.1 nmol/l to 19.3 +/- 1.2 nmol/l, (SEM, P less than 0.001) and from 4.6 +/- 0.2 nmol/l to 4.3 +/- 0.2 nmol/l (SEM, P less than 0.01), respectively. These changes were paralleled by a reduction in serum free (non-protein bound) testosterone (P less than 0.01) suggesting a possible change in biological activity. During the low fat period a significant negative correlation between serum prolactin and androgens was observed. All the changes in androgen levels were reversible. With the exception of a small but non-significant decrease in serum estradiol-17 beta, the other hormone parameters were practically unaffected by the dietary manipulation. Our results indicate that in men a decrease in dietary fat content and an increase in the degree of unsaturation of fatty acids reduces the serum concentrations of androstenedione, testosterone and free testosterone. The mechanism and importance of this phenomenon is discussed in the light of epidemiological and experimental data.

PMID: 6538617 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Soure: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6538617

Influence of dietary fatty acids composition, level of dietary fat and feeding period on some parameters of androgen metabolism in male rats.
Gromadzka-Ostrowska J, Przepiórka M, Romanowicz K.

Department of Dietetics and Functional Foods, Faculty of Human Nutrition and Consumer Sciences, Warsaw Agricultural University, Warsaw, Poland. gromadzka@alpha.sggw.waw.pl

Abstract
The aim of the present study was to determine the effect of the composition of dietary fatty acids, the duration of feeding period and dietary fat level on androgen metabolism in male rats. One hundred and twelve Wistar rats were divided into 18 groups which were fed three diets containing different types of fat (rapeseed [R], palm [P] and fish [F] oil) at either normal fat level (w/w; 5%) or high fat level (20%) during one, three or six weeks. Blood plasma level of androgen (testosterone+dihydrotestosterone) and testicular activity of 17beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (17beta-HSD) were investigated. In addition, androgen content in cytosol of the heart, the target organ, was measured. Androgen concentration in both blood plasma and heart cytosol extracts was measured by radioimmunoassay. The activity of 17Beta-HSD was expressed as a conversion of [3H]androstendione to [3H]testosterone in soluble fraction of gonadal homogenates. Plasma androgen concentration was influenced by a type of dietary fat (p<0.05). The highest plasma level of androgen was observed in animals fed R diets rich in unsaturated fatty acids. Significantly lower androgen concentration was demonstrated in rats fed P diets rich in saturated fatty acids. Only the feeding period factor significantly influenced androgen content in cytosol fraction of heart muscle cells (p<0.01). A positive correlation was found between plasma androgen concentration in plasma and cytosol fraction of the heart muscle cells (r=0.63, p<0.001). The feeding period (p<0.001) and dietary fat type (p<0.05) significantly affected the activity of 17beta-HSD. The least 17beta-HSD activity was observed in animals consuming the P-20% diet for six weeks. In summary, dietary fat type and feeding period, but not fat level, significantly affected both testosterone production and testosterone uptake by the target organ in male rats. It was found that a rapeseed diet rich in unsaturated fatty acids stimulated the testicular function in rats.

PMID: 14666150 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14666150

Effects of dietary fat and fiber on plasma and urine androgens and estrogens in men: a controlled feeding study.
Dorgan JF, Judd JT, Longcope C, Brown C, Schatzkin A, Clevidence BA, Campbell WS, Nair PP, Franz C, Kahle L, Taylor PR.

Division of Cancer Prevention and Control, National Cancer Institute, Bethesda, MD 20892-7326, USA. dorganj@dcpcepn.nci.nih.gov

Abstract
We conducted a controlled feeding study to evaluate the effects of fat and fiber consumption on plasma and urine sex hormones in men. The study had a crossover design and included 43 healthy men aged 19-56 y. Men were initially randomly assigned to either a low-fat, high-fiber or high-fat, low-fiber diet for 10 wk and after a 2-wk washout period crossed over to the other diet. The energy content of diets was varied to maintain constant body weight but averaged approximately 13.3 MJ (3170 kcal)/d on both diets. The low-fat diet provided 18.8% of energy from fat with a ratio of polyunsaturated to saturated fat (P:S) of 1.3, whereas the high-fat diet provided 41.0% of energy from fat with a P:S of 0.6. Total dietary fiber consumption from the low- and high-fat diets averaged 4.6 and 2.0 g.MJ-1.d-1, respectively. Mean plasma concentrations of total and sex-hormone-binding-globulin (SHBG)-bound testosterone were 13% and 15% higher, respectively, on the high-fat, low-fiber diet and the difference from the low-fat, high-fiber diet was significant for the SHBG-bound fraction (P = 0.04). Men's daily urinary excretion of testosterone also was 13% higher with the high-fat, low-fiber diet than with the low-fat, high-fiber diet (P = 0.01). Conversely, their urinary excretion of estradiol and estrone and their 2-hydroxy metabolites were 12-28% lower with the high-fat, low-fiber diet (P < or = 0.01). Results of this study suggest that diet may alter endogenous sex hormone metabolism in men.

Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8942407

[DDon1996]

Saturated Fats are bad

Most people I know and talk to think fats are bad and you should stay away from them.

I also have a few people in my family who think saturated fats are the worst for you, and these same people never drink full fat milk/cheese, red meats, fast food etc etc (pisses me off when I try to explain the importance of everything in moderation, and they take no interest in listening to me).

The below studies clearly indicate fats (saturated fats in particular) can make a significant impact on androstenedione, free testosterone, and total testosterone levels.


Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6298507


Soure: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6538617


Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14666150


Not sure if you would count the last one since it was done on male rats and not humans..

Good **** bro, and if THIS post wasn't enough to convince you....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8942407


"Mean plasma concentrations of total and sex-hormone-binding-globulin (SHBG)-bound testosterone were 13% and 15% higher, respectively, on the high-fat, low-fiber diet and the difference from the low-fat, high-fiber diet was significant for the SHBG-bound fraction (P = 0.04). Men's daily urinary excretion of testosterone also was 13% higher with the high-fat, low-fiber diet than with the low-fat, high-fiber diet (P = 0.01). "

TL;DR, fats are good!

[snrygo]

Subb'd!

[michael_xyz]

Studies get disproved every day. Not saying they are wrong but every other day you hear of how apples can stop a certain type of cancer or whatever. Then next day you hear that actually they contribute to it.

Also, how the hell can you eat 2 meals and digest, say 200g protein/carbs etc? It's just too hard.

[ryanstafford1]

Squats to depth are bad for your knees.

(not a PubMed source, but the section I'm quoting is very much legit.)


You hear this one from all the gym bro's. Ignore it.


'This causes a lot of compressive forces against the patella, and pulls forcefully against the posterior cruciate ligament. These potentially destructive forces become significantly less as you descend further into the squat position.'


'The second reason is that, because of better leverage doing partials, you’re obliged to use a far heavier weight in order to gain any sort of adaptive overload on the muscles involved; dangerous to the entire shoulder girdle, neck, low back, and knees.'


Edit: To clarify, the quotes I took are referring to squats ABOVE parellel.

sweet i've always been worried about going too low cos of knee problems in the past but f**k it. bring on those deep squats

[zepplin92]

Good **** bro, and if THIS post wasn't enough to convince you....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8942407


"Mean plasma concentrations of total and sex-hormone-binding-globulin (SHBG)-bound testosterone were 13% and 15% higher, respectively, on the high-fat, low-fiber diet and the difference from the low-fat, high-fiber diet was significant for the SHBG-bound fraction (P = 0.04). Men's daily urinary excretion of testosterone also was 13% higher with the high-fat, low-fiber diet than with the low-fat, high-fiber diet (P = 0.01). "

TL;DR, fats are good!

Thanks man, and god damnit had that one in my folder dunno how the hell I missed it...*edits post*.

[DDon1996]

Studies get disproved every day. Not saying they are wrong but every other day you hear of how apples can stop a certain type of cancer or whatever. Then next day you hear that actually they contribute to it.

Also, how the hell can you eat 2 meals and digest, say 200g protein/carbs etc? It's just too hard.

All I have to say to this is I showed you 4 or 5 studies proving it, show me 4 or 5 disproving it.

[BHillz]

Studies get disproved every day. Not saying they are wrong but every other day you hear of how apples can stop a certain type of cancer or whatever. Then next day you hear that actually they contribute to it.

Also, how the hell can you eat 2 meals and digest, say 200g protein/carbs etc? It's just too hard.

When you had to hunt and gather your food millions of years ago, did your body care how many small meals it got?

[MrB1g]

Studies get disproved every day. Not saying they are wrong but every other day you hear of how apples can stop a certain type of cancer or whatever. Then next day you hear that actually they contribute to it.

Also, how the hell can you eat 2 meals and digest, say 200g protein/carbs etc? It's just too hard.

No, bullshit gets disproven everyday.


Will human anatomy change within 2 days, rendering the section I posted about squats invalid? No.


Will testosterone levels suddenly and inexplicably increase on a low-fat diet within the next 2 days? No.


Will the human metabolism change so that suddenly, eating multiple meals does indeed have some significant metabolic advantage? No.



The raw facts have NEVER been disproven, simply people's interpretations of them.




And what do you mean it's just to hard?

[BitterBlossom]

Excellent thread. When I get off of work I'll contribute as well.

Inb4 bitter Cardio Nazi.

[AlphaSaiyan]

Does weight lifting stunt growth?

http://stronglifts.com/does-weight-l...-stunt-growth/

cliffs-

Weight lifting has no effect on growth. There is more reason to believe that it actually helps growth.

I've got one, how many times a week should one do HIIT to best develop VO2 max?

[vandagriff16]

Awesome post!

good read