Leangains and IF done right - 7 month cut/bulk

[Zewski92]

I am doing IF to cut down at least 3% bodyfat. I am working out almost everyday. Maybe 5-6 days a week. Not doing cardio anymore though, just heavy weights and putting my 100% into it. I've been on IF maybe a week.

2 reasons i hope your joking

1. 3% bodyfat=dead

2. working out 5-6 days a week is stupid. working out 5-6 days a week ON A CUT is retarded and harmful. You're doing yourself more harm than good. A calorie deficit is a recovery deficit. If you continue the way you are now you're just going to wind up burnt out and a lot less strong. Cut your volume IN HALF and work on MAINTAINING strength. Let the calorie deficit take care of fat loss, and the weights keep you from losing strength.

I also suggest you actually read some of Marin's articles on working out since i have no idea where you go your ideas of working out from.

But I'm sure you were just joking. Seriously, you were joking right?

[bp42988]

He said cut down 3% body fat not to 3% prolly from like 11 to 8% id assume X_X

[Zewski92]

#facepalm

still, ditch the bro-training on a cut. You're only hurting yourself

[naggers]

#facepalm

still, ditch the bro-training on a cut. You're only hurting yourself

I am not cutting down to 3%. If you read it, it says cutting down 3% bodyfat.
Also I don't think I have heard anything bad about going to the gym 5-6 times a week. Actually realistically I am going maybe 4-5 times a week. I work out different body parts every workout, with intense focus and isolation on my muscles. It is to help with preserving muscle mass and strength. I find that if I were to do lets say chest and back on one day. I work be working out one muscle with less intensity because of fatigue.

I try to split my workout sessions so that each BIG muscle group gets a good beating.

[Zewski92]

I am not cutting down to 3%. If you read it, it says cutting down 3% bodyfat.
Also I don't think I have heard anything bad about going to the gym 5-6 times a week. Actually realistically I am going maybe 4-5 times a week. I work out different body parts every workout, with intense focus and isolation on my muscles. It is to help with preserving muscle mass and strength. I find that if I were to do lets say chest and back on one day. I work be working out one muscle with less intensity because of fatigue.

I try to split my workout sessions so that each BIG muscle group gets a good beating.

If i had enough posts to do so, I'd post links from Martin, Lyle Mcdonald, and many others that state that what you're doing is not only unnecessary but also harmful. However, I doubt you'd listen since it disagrees with what you believe.

All I'm going to say is that it's been proven that frequency can be reduced to up to 2/3 as long as intensity is maintained. (you can workout less as long as you keep weights just as heavy).

What you're doing now won't work because your working out too frequently for your body to recover before you go to workout again (due to the lack of cals), and you will eventually lose strength and, in turn, lose size.

But do whatever you want.

[naggers]

If i had enough posts to do so, I'd post links from Martin, Lyle Mcdonald, and many others that state that what you're doing is not only unnecessary but also harmful. However, I doubt you'd listen since it disagrees with what you believe.

All I'm going to say is that it's been proven that frequency can be reduced to up to 2/3 as long as intensity is maintained. (you can workout less as long as you keep weights just as heavy).

What you're doing now won't work because your working out too frequently for your body to recover before you go to workout again (due to the lack of cals), and you will eventually lose strength and, in turn, lose size.

But do whatever you want.

I am open minded, I am not rejecting your suggestions. In fact I appreciate it. I give my body at least a week to recover from its last session. Is that not sufficient? What do you recommend I do? Also I can't find it on leangains.com where it focuses on training sessions etc.

[Zewski92]

I am open minded, I am not rejecting your suggestions. In fact I appreciate it. I give my body at least a week to recover from its last session. Is that not sufficient? What do you recommend I do? Also I can't find it on leangains.com where it focuses on training sessions etc.

Sorry I'm coming off so harshly, but i used to use the same old 5-6 day split, and its just frustrating when i see other people dooped into thinking they need to workout so much.

Here's a quote from martin on the topic of HIIT cardio (although in this case you can think of them as extra gym sessions)

"Lifting at a suboptimal capacity starts a downward spiral in my experience. If your nervous system cannot keep up with what your muscles can lift, muscle loss happens as a consequence of never being able to apply adequate stress/perform optimally."

"If you're adding 2-3 sessions of HIIT to your 3 sessions of weights, it is almost comparable to adding 2-3 days of weights. Keyword is "almost", I'm obviously not drawing direct comparisons. That's all fine and dandy if you think working out 5-6 days/week is a good idea on a diet. But I don't think anyone - no matter what level of experience - needs more than 3 days a week in the gym when cutting. (Yes, this goes for competitors and beginners alike.)"

basically although you may think you're giving your muscles a week of rest between sessions, your never giving your BODY any rest. Lets say you work legs on monday and during your workout you do heavy squats then rdl's then leg extensions/curls, and maybe even hit some heavy ab work as well. After this session your cns is spent along with your legs. Now instead of spending the next day resting, eating, and recoverying, you go into the gym and blast your chest with heavy bench, flyes, etc. This is bad on two levels. Not only is your cns now being taxed again, but your body now isn't able to work on repairing your legs from the day before since your now working out your chest.

Remember, working out actually DAMAGES your muscles. It's not until you rest and recover that the actual GROWTH happens.

Think of it like this, your body (muscles) is like a building and calories are the bricks that it's made of. When you work out your takin a sledge hammer to it and knocking it down slightly. Usually you have plenty of bricks (when not dieting) to repair the building. But when dieting you have barely enough bricks to REBUILD the house, let alone BUILD upon it. Plus, if you are only knocking down the building (i.e., working out), the building (your muscles) are never going to have time to be repaired.

Martin also has a really good quote to summarize this.

"A calorie deficit is a recovery deficit. Avoid deficit spending."

Now for some articles by Martin search "RPT" and "Minimalist" also look for articles named "thoughts on training" or something like that.

I also recommend you google an article by Lyle McDonald (a nutrition expert, that Martin supports) entitled "training for fat loss", among many others. His website is "bodyrecomposition.com"

Hope this helps and sorry for how long/rambling this was. And I'll gladly clarify if need be. Again sorry if I came off as rude, I'm really only trying to help and sometimes being a little stand offish is just a way to get someones attention :P

Good luck bro

[naggers]

That makes a lot of sense. I will definitely cut down on my workout sessions per week. How do you usually stack up your workout sessions in terms of body parts?

I am thinking:

Chest/Tri's
Rest
Back/abs
Rest
Biceps/shoulders
Legs
Rest

Or should I stick with 3 times a week? That means a lot of days in which I have to eat significantly less than on workout days.

[Zewski92]

That makes a lot of sense. I will definitely cut down on my workout sessions per week. How do you usually stack up your workout sessions in terms of body parts?

I am thinking:

Chest/Tri's
Rest
Back/abs
Rest
Biceps/shoulders
Legs
Rest

Or should I stick with 3 times a week? That means a lot of days in which I have to eat significantly less than on workout days.

Keep it to three days a week. I normally like to go upper lower split in ABA BAB fashion

So: Upper would be: bench,chinups, shoulder press, rows

and lower would be: Squat, RDL, Leg Press, Glute Bridges

Just to give you an idea, and as far as having more lower cal days as opposed to higher cal/workout days. Isn't that the point of a cut?

There are many ways to skin the cat of course, but yea stick to three days a week (I've used two whole-body sessions a week with great results, just fyi), and throw in some light walking as cardio on off days IF your fat loss stalls, but use that later into the cut.

[qazross]

Does this Intermittent Fasting stuff work? I'm tempted to try it as the results look great and it's convinent for people who work full time. I'm 5 foot 7 & 140 lbs right now, I have a bit of a belly so I would love to get rid of that extra fat and gain lean muscle at the same time. So is this regime recommended or is it not very good? :P

[gesbos1]

that is quite impressive. Is that the heaviest and leanist you have ever been? I thought I saw a post with an older 2007 pic of you and you were similar to the second picture in your post here.
Anyway, very impressive.

[sportyaccordy]

That makes a lot of sense. I will definitely cut down on my workout sessions per week. How do you usually stack up your workout sessions in terms of body parts?

I am thinking:

Chest/Tri's
Rest
Back/abs
Rest
Biceps/shoulders
Legs
Rest

Or should I stick with 3 times a week? That means a lot of days in which I have to eat significantly less than on workout days.

3x a week is plenty in a deficit

Here is my current routine

Sunday: Chest/shoulders
Monday: 30 mins cardio (bike into work)
Tuesday: Upper back
Wednesday: Rest or 30 mins cardio (bike into work)
Thursday: Arms + big lift (week 1 = squats, week 2 = deadlift)
Friday: Rest or 30 mins cardio
Saturday: 90-120 mins cardio (24-30 mile ride)

I don't think cardio is as awful as everyone makes it out to be, though admittedly since I threw cardio into my cut routine my squats and deads have kind of suffered. But I would consolidate. Lyle McD's advice on dieting has been spot on for me- cut lifting volume by up to 2/3 (I cut it by about 1/2), and take a diet break every 6-8 weeks. Both tips have helped me retain strength and stick with the cut for over 3 months now, w/no need or feeling to stop. That aspect of it is prob most important and will make transitioning out of a cut a breeze.

[sehorn34]

congrats bro !
I know you're not into counting calories etc but how is your last meal like when you try to lose fat ? Do you cut carbs as most people say ?

[pthree]

Bulking on IF/Leangains

11h30 : 34g fats - 129g carbs - 86g proteins = 1165 cals

15h45 : 6g fats - 78g carbs - 68g proteins = 620 cals

16h30 : Training (Layne Norton's PHAT routine) + 10 min CARDIO

18h : 63g fats - 193g carbs - 123g proteins = 1870 cals

TOTAL :
CALS : 3655
FATS : 103
PROTS : 277
CARBS : 400

I got all my macro, cals are 600 over maintenance so I'll do 10 min of cardio everyday. First clean bulk ever(last 5 months bulk was very dirt.

[Zewski92]

Bulking on IF/Leangains

11h30 : 34g fats - 129g carbs - 86g proteins = 1165 cals

15h45 : 6g fats - 78g carbs - 68g proteins = 620 cals

16h30 : Training (Layne Norton's PHAT routine) + 10 min CARDIO

18h : 63g fats - 193g carbs - 123g proteins = 1870 cals

TOTAL :
CALS : 3655
FATS : 103
PROTS : 277
CARBS : 400

I got all my macro, cals are 600 over maintenance so I'll do 10 min of cardio everyday. First clean bulk ever(last 5 months bulk was very dirt.

You should think about cycling cals. try eating +600 on training days, and just maintenance on off days. Just my .02 to help keep fat at bay during your bulk

[Hiiero]

Gratz Bro, very good progress

[pthree]

You should think about cycling cals. try eating +600 on training days, and just maintenance on off days. Just my .02 to help keep fat at bay during your bulk

I read that +20% over maintenance on WO day and -20% on N-WO day was good. Is that true or it's actually more like +20% and maintenance at N-WO day?

Also Is there anyone who has bulk of leangains / if? Did you see any fat loss???

[Zewski92]

I read that +20% over maintenance on WO day and -20% on N-WO day was good. Is that true or it's actually more like +20% and maintenance at N-WO day?

Also Is there anyone who has bulk of leangains / if? Did you see any fat loss???

Well that first reccomendation is geared more towards recomp because you can actually be in a deficit or a surplus depending on how many days you work out (3xweek=small deficit, 4x=small surplus), and i thought i saw you say you were more interested in bulking. Honestly don't get too caught up in exact numbers, just be in a surplus by the end of the week and you gotta gain eventually.

and im not sure what your asking with your second question, if you mean "has anyone ever bulked on leangains" then look at the op haha, if you mean "did anyone HAVE bulk, and lost fat" then just look at this http://www.leangains.com/search/label/Client%20results

There's nothing magic about leangains, it's just a method to make dieting simpler/easier for people (especially those who used to be caught up in eating 6x a day, like most on these forums). The basic laws of thermodynamics still apply. Eat less, lose weight. Eat more, gain weight. HOW you eat will never change that, it's about finding what works best FOR YOU.

Hope this helped bro, good luck

[peteyyytran]

Looking huge bro. Keep it up and definitely inspiring a lot of people with that physique. Aesthetic as fuarkkk

[hlimw18]

OP, how come you were like 5 8 165lbs when you made this thread but now you're 6 1 195lbs?

[Zewski92]

Hey OP

I remember you having trouble with your last bit of fat covering your lower abs. Did you ever try Yohimbe? It's basically made for that. Just an FYI

[aidmen]

I read that +20% over maintenance on WO day and -20% on N-WO day was good. Is that true or it's actually more like +20% and maintenance at N-WO day?

Also Is there anyone who has bulk of leangains / if? Did you see any fat loss???

i've been doing it for almost 9weeks now
i gained 2,6kg and lost 1,4% fat with the if principle cycling carbs on off and on days
but i have to admit getting more hungry now during evenings and night
guess my body asks for more food now.

[pthree]

i've been doing it for almost 9weeks now
i gained 2,6kg and lost 1,4% fat with the if principle cycling carbs on off and on days
but i have to admit getting more hungry now during evenings and night
guess my body asks for more food now.

You did +20% of your maintenance on workout day and -20% on non-workout day OR +20% of your maintenance on workout day and eating at maintenance on non-workout day? I know everybody is different but still...

[hlimw18]

OP, how come you were like 5 8 165lbs when you made this thread but now you're 6 1 195lbs?

BUMP * anyone??

[hlimw18]

no doubt amazing body but why u change your stats man?

[mh22]

great progress op..in4later read on leangains

[CurltonBench]

you look good in both before and after. but tbh the only diffrence between the pics is that you're more tan, flexing your pex and have a pump. not conviced.jpg

[Berzinator]

you look good in both before and after. but tbh the only diffrence between the pics is that you're more tan, flexing your pex and have a pump. not conviced.jpg

Wow. I sincerely hope you're kidding, or else you must be blind. There's clearly a big difference, both visually and in his stats, not to mention he stated that both pics were taken relaxed on off days from the gym (ie. no pump).*

Either that or you're trolling, which is another real possibility.

[defixon]

congrats bro !
I know you're not into counting calories etc but how is your last meal like when you try to lose fat ? Do you cut carbs as most people say ?

Yea, I cut a lot of my carbs when I am cutting.. I still eat them, though. Especially PWO.*

Looking huge bro. Keep it up and definitely inspiring a lot of people with that physique. Aesthetic as fuarkkk

Thanks, bud.

OP, how come you were like 5 8 165lbs when you made this thread but now you're 6 1 195lbs?

Not sure what you're talking about. Last time I was 5'8" I think I was in 8th grade

Hey OP

I remember you having trouble with your last bit of fat covering your lower abs. Did you ever try Yohimbe? It's basically made for that. Just an FYI

Still there, it's got worse because my diet hasn't been that good lately. But yes, I use Yohimbine HCL almost everyday with caffeine. Love that stuff.

[defixon]

you look good in both before and after. but tbh the only diffrence between the pics is that you're more tan, flexing your pex and have a pump. not conviced.jpg

Not flexing nor have a pump, but I do have a killer tan in that pic. Benefit of living in Florida. I think it's pretty much impossible to gain a sh*tload of*strength*without gaining any muscle mass, though. But thank you for your criticism.